Realistic WR late round sleeper pick Darren Waller

Hawks46

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Intriguing physical attributes.

Sounds like he's someone unmotivated. I wonder if Carroll could get him fired up and competitive.
 
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titan3131

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Im curious why you think he is unmotivated?
 

Attyla the Hawk

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Not a fan of Waller at all. Physically, he's impressive. Skills wise he's pretty terrible. Noted that he caught all 26 passes thrown his way. That stat is simply amazing to me, because balls thrown his way just look like they eat him up. Body catches a ton, and balls rattle around in his hands often. Watching him catch those passes is almost painful. QB play was bad. But Waller doesn't exhibit ability to get open, run routes, catch cleanly or make good adjustments on the ball. Benefited greatly by a run heavy offense where coverage was sacrificed for playing the run.

Has very little quickness. Very long strider who takes a long time to get up to speed. His best routes are go and double move routes. In fact those are the only ones you're likely to see any value of him on tape. When watching him run, it's like he has tacks inside his cleats. No discernable ability to sink hips and run curls/out routes. Very stiff movement wise.

If we're talking late round guy -- I'm much higher on Smelter. He demonstrates much greater movement skills. Watch some Waller, then watch some Smelter. Pretty confident you'll see two entirely different prospects from a skills perspective.
 

MysterMatt

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Attyla the Hawk":u7ox3agf said:
Not a fan of Waller at all. Physically, he's impressive. Skills wise he's pretty terrible. Noted that he caught all 26 passes thrown his way. That stat is simply amazing to me, because balls thrown his way just look like they eat him up. Body catches a ton, and balls rattle around in his hands often. Watching him catch those passes is almost painful. QB play was bad. But Waller doesn't exhibit ability to get open, run routes, catch cleanly or make good adjustments on the ball. Benefited greatly by a run heavy offense where coverage was sacrificed for playing the run.

Has very little quickness. Very long strider who takes a long time to get up to speed. His best routes are go and double move routes. In fact those are the only ones you're likely to see any value of him on tape. When watching him run, it's like he has tacks inside his cleats. No discernable ability to sink hips and run curls/out routes. Very stiff movement wise.

If we're talking late round guy -- I'm much higher on Smelter. He demonstrates much greater movement skills. Watch some Waller, then watch some Smelter. Pretty confident you'll see two entirely different prospects from a skills perspective.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but the ESPN analysis says he's good at catching with his hands and has good body control.
 

SomersetHawk

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MysterMatt":30ar3fgg said:
Attyla the Hawk":30ar3fgg said:
Not a fan of Waller at all. Physically, he's impressive. Skills wise he's pretty terrible. Noted that he caught all 26 passes thrown his way. That stat is simply amazing to me, because balls thrown his way just look like they eat him up. Body catches a ton, and balls rattle around in his hands often. Watching him catch those passes is almost painful. QB play was bad. But Waller doesn't exhibit ability to get open, run routes, catch cleanly or make good adjustments on the ball. Benefited greatly by a run heavy offense where coverage was sacrificed for playing the run.

Has very little quickness. Very long strider who takes a long time to get up to speed. His best routes are go and double move routes. In fact those are the only ones you're likely to see any value of him on tape. When watching him run, it's like he has tacks inside his cleats. No discernable ability to sink hips and run curls/out routes. Very stiff movement wise.

If we're talking late round guy -- I'm much higher on Smelter. He demonstrates much greater movement skills. Watch some Waller, then watch some Smelter. Pretty confident you'll see two entirely different prospects from a skills perspective.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but the ESPN analysis says he's good at catching with his hands and has good body control.

What's your opinion?

Attyla pretty much summed up my feelings. I've seen Vincent Jackson comps banded around here and I really think those people need to watch the tape closer. I was amazed by his combine numbers given what I'd seen from him, just a pretty unnatural football player. Impressive measurables that may give him a decent chance of developing (ala Luke Willson) but there's other guys who will go lower who I think are better prospects (someone like Issac Blakeney for example, who will probably get more talk after Duke's pro day at the end of the month).
 

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Kamcussionator":1ww87xr2 said:
I'm sure we'll see him or Conley in April.

Wonder if Waller can in-line block...

Oddly enough I didn't see much blocking on the one game I watched of his, and when he did he wasn't very good.

They mostly used him to run defenders off on the play side.

There simply isn't enough film on this kid catching the ball or running routes to draw any conclusions in that goofy offense GTech runs. You are drafting him based on what you think he can do, not what he has shown he can do.
 
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titan3131

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matthews was a project and it took him a year.

PS / development guy.
 

kearly

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I just watched him on youtube. Jordan Kent 2.0. Waller looks completely lost, like he should playing a different sport. If you just want a tall WR you can find much better and do so cheaply.

But yes, he does seem like a PC/JS UDFA type. They tend to gravitate towards extreme prospects.
 

kearly

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titan3131":270goiju said:
matthews was a project and it took him a year.

...to have one good game against the Patriots version of Kelly Jennings.
 
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titan3131

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so i take it your not high on Chris matthews until he puts it up for 18 games?
 

Attyla the Hawk

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titan3131":63z9lvac said:
so i take it your not high on Chris matthews until he puts it up for 18 games?

How about he just does it for two games. Since the next game he catches a pass will be the second game he does.

I am all about pumping the brakes on Matthews. What do we think is more likely:

1. The entire coaching staff is stupid and didn't know what they had in Matthews

or

2. We were short bodies in the WR group and our 5th WR project happened to produce against the worst defensive back on the field who didn't respect a player who never recorded a catch in his career.

While I'm intrigued by Matthews -- I really don't even expect him to make next year's roster. I certainly hope we add enough talent that he can't make the roster.
 

UK_Seahawk

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kearly":3f9es0et said:
I just watched him on youtube. Jordan Kent 2.0. Waller looks completely lost, like he should playing a different sport. If you just want a tall WR you can find much better and do so cheaply.

But yes, he does seem like a PC/JS UDFA type. They tend to gravitate towards extreme prospects.

Is there some crazy stat about him not haviing a single drop though? I think Waller goes higher than many think.

His length and combine stats make for a very intriguing prospect, all the other stuff is coachable surely? Someone will take a punt early.
 

Attyla the Hawk

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UK_Seahawk":28vhxyfz said:
kearly":28vhxyfz said:
I just watched him on youtube. Jordan Kent 2.0. Waller looks completely lost, like he should playing a different sport. If you just want a tall WR you can find much better and do so cheaply.

But yes, he does seem like a PC/JS UDFA type. They tend to gravitate towards extreme prospects.

Is there some crazy stat about him not haviing a single drop though? I think Waller goes higher than many think.

His length and combine stats make for a very intriguing prospect, all the other stuff is coachable surely? Someone will take a punt early.

There is that. With 26 catches -- that's not a huge sample size.

Watching his and Smelter's footage, it seems sheer luck that he caught all those passes. He looks genuinely clumsy trying to catch footballs. Every reception seems like an adventure. From a translates to the NFL perspective, there are just a host of issues that I abhor with him. He seems even less capable of running curls/outs than Brandon Coleman last year. Stiff doesn't begin to describe him athletically. Doesn't adjust to the balls cleanly. Seems a lot of tough catches for quality WRs end up being so far out of his catch radius so as to not even counting as drops.

For the 'drops mean everything' cadre -- I'm sure he seems like a day 2 pick. Particularly with his raw speed measurables. But when I look at him and how little he does and what he's asked to do from a receiving skillset perspective, I see a UDFA prospect all the way. He redefines the term 'raw' to me. It looks like the development hill for him is like Everest.

Anyone that bangs the drum for him -- all they mention is 40 times and no drops his senior year. Receiving takes so much more than just those elements.
 
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