theENGLISHseahawk
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Two-round mock draft & why Panthers O-line matters to SEA
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Ozzy
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I would absolutely love this draft. Great thoughts on Carolina as well Rob.
gmor
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I would like to see a DT in either one of the guards place. Otherwise it looks very nice.
Seanhawk
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Is Deion Jones capable of playing SS?
ivotuk
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Good Lord Rob! 212 responses on one write up, 41 on the other! By the time I'm able to read them, they've blown up and everything I was excited to talk about had already been Covered! Holy crap your site had taken off!
Overseasfan
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Not addressing OT and DT would be a mistake. Those two positions are incredibly deep and are major concerns for us. I'd like those in the second and third instead of Jones and Dahl.
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theENGLISHseahawk
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Overseasfan":p41u0rp8 said:
In this projection DT is addressed in the veteran free agent market.
Overseasfan
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theENGLISHseahawk":20p1uhly said:
Are there even any pass rush DTs available in FA this year?
I like this idea of what ails the Hawks the most. Its the 2 things that have Carolina on the doorstep of hoisting the Lombardi trophy, gut pressure on D and ass kickers inside on the O-line, and why we are at home watching.
Martin is gonna be a great pro just like his brother and I would love to have him on our roster but I would wonder what our D-line situation would look like after F/A in this scenario to leave Billings & Butler on the board to take Martin at 26? I think both those guys are the type of DL players we need and covet.
Other than that I can't really fight ya on any of your picks in this mock and I could see 5 or 6 making the the opening day roster and playing substantial minutes next year. I think Dahl becomes a guy that has a long pro career and able to play multiple spots in time. Very nice write up and thought process on how JS & PC should be going at this draft.
Martin is gonna be a great pro just like his brother and I would love to have him on our roster but I would wonder what our D-line situation would look like after F/A in this scenario to leave Billings & Butler on the board to take Martin at 26? I think both those guys are the type of DL players we need and covet.
Other than that I can't really fight ya on any of your picks in this mock and I could see 5 or 6 making the the opening day roster and playing substantial minutes next year. I think Dahl becomes a guy that has a long pro career and able to play multiple spots in time. Very nice write up and thought process on how JS & PC should be going at this draft.
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theENGLISHseahawk
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Overseasfan":32batdz6 said:
There aren't as many in the draft as people think.
Overseasfan
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theENGLISHseahawk":192jv98s said:
Very true but there still are a couple out there. Nkemdiche, Rankins, Butler, Washington and Day come to mind. I imagine that's at least more than in FA.
TeamoftheCentury
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Nice draft. I would be happy with that. Not sure Deion Jones is going to last to that 2nd round pick. I think savvy scouts and GM's are probably all over that guy.
Did you hear what Brock Huard had to say about a certain Center prospect? http://mynorthwest.com/292/2902264/Huar ... e-Seahawks
Did you hear what Brock Huard had to say about a certain Center prospect? http://mynorthwest.com/292/2902264/Huar ... e-Seahawks
The Seahawks typically try to go into the draft with no glaring holes. They do this by attending to their own free agents and making low budget moves on middle of the road veterans.
But with multiple glaring holes along both interior lines, and a large number of internal free agents and potential contract extensions, I don't see them being able to fill those holes in free agency. I think they may need to do something along these lines. Address one side in free agency, and the other through the draft.
I think its a solid take by Rob. Not sure I'd love a center in the first. It might feel like James Carpenter all over again in that when the pick comes in you kinda scratch your head and say "oh well" but if he is the center version of his big brother, it would be a worth while pick.
There are some defensive tackles (and offensive tackle) I like later in the draft too.
But with multiple glaring holes along both interior lines, and a large number of internal free agents and potential contract extensions, I don't see them being able to fill those holes in free agency. I think they may need to do something along these lines. Address one side in free agency, and the other through the draft.
I think its a solid take by Rob. Not sure I'd love a center in the first. It might feel like James Carpenter all over again in that when the pick comes in you kinda scratch your head and say "oh well" but if he is the center version of his big brother, it would be a worth while pick.
There are some defensive tackles (and offensive tackle) I like later in the draft too.
Nice work as usual, Rob.
If the Hawks do their usual thing and address DT in the free agent market (as this mock assumes), who do you think they'll go after? I think Pete stated they'd like to improve the pass rush at DT, and simply re-signing Mebane and Rubin wouldn't help with that. Jordan Hill was expected to fill that role, but he seemed to regress last year and can't stay healthy anyway. There aren't a ton of options in the draft. Who could the Hawks target in FA that won't break the bank?
Could Jason Jones be an option? He was expected to improve the interior pass rush in 2012 but missed most of the year with injury. He's been in Detroit since then. He missed most of 2013 with a torn patellar tendon, but has only missed one game in the last two years. I don't know if he's the same since the injury, but superficially his stats look okay, with 5 sacks in 2014 and 4.5 last year post-Suh.
If the Hawks do their usual thing and address DT in the free agent market (as this mock assumes), who do you think they'll go after? I think Pete stated they'd like to improve the pass rush at DT, and simply re-signing Mebane and Rubin wouldn't help with that. Jordan Hill was expected to fill that role, but he seemed to regress last year and can't stay healthy anyway. There aren't a ton of options in the draft. Who could the Hawks target in FA that won't break the bank?
Could Jason Jones be an option? He was expected to improve the interior pass rush in 2012 but missed most of the year with injury. He's been in Detroit since then. He missed most of 2013 with a torn patellar tendon, but has only missed one game in the last two years. I don't know if he's the same since the injury, but superficially his stats look okay, with 5 sacks in 2014 and 4.5 last year post-Suh.
I'd like this draft, but there have to be a couple of things happen:
We'd have to sign Lane. Simon isn't reliable, and I'm not sure Smith is ready to rely on. With Lane and Shead, we'd still have the secondary that were squeezing teams next year, and it's possible Shead hasn't reached his ceiling at CB while Lane could get more polished on the outside.
DT's. We'd have to sign at least Rubin and probably Mebane as well. Or a street FA, but I loved the way Rubin played last year. We have young depth in Hill and Clark that can provide interior pass rush.
I'm guessing signing a LBer in the 2nd means we let Irvin walk. That's the only way I'm thrilled about the pick.
Rob, do you see Perkins as a 3rd down back, or is he replacing Michael ? In watching Michael last year, he showed he can carry the load when needed and would be an outstanding change of pace pace and compliment to Rawls. It seems like he's finally "gotten" it, but I do understand the reasoning behind shoring the position up in case CMike slips back to old habits. But a 3rd ?
I think your reasoning about the Tackles is sound. As bad as Bailey is, it didn't hurt our offense much to have him in there, while I think Gilliam is already a better Tackle than Carolina has, and will get better. That said, that many picks in the interior ? I know it needs to be addressed but I thought that Glowlinski looked like he could start in limited action. I'd let Sweezy walk.
Overall a solid premise and strategy, and I might just be being nit picky.
We'd have to sign Lane. Simon isn't reliable, and I'm not sure Smith is ready to rely on. With Lane and Shead, we'd still have the secondary that were squeezing teams next year, and it's possible Shead hasn't reached his ceiling at CB while Lane could get more polished on the outside.
DT's. We'd have to sign at least Rubin and probably Mebane as well. Or a street FA, but I loved the way Rubin played last year. We have young depth in Hill and Clark that can provide interior pass rush.
I'm guessing signing a LBer in the 2nd means we let Irvin walk. That's the only way I'm thrilled about the pick.
Rob, do you see Perkins as a 3rd down back, or is he replacing Michael ? In watching Michael last year, he showed he can carry the load when needed and would be an outstanding change of pace pace and compliment to Rawls. It seems like he's finally "gotten" it, but I do understand the reasoning behind shoring the position up in case CMike slips back to old habits. But a 3rd ?
I think your reasoning about the Tackles is sound. As bad as Bailey is, it didn't hurt our offense much to have him in there, while I think Gilliam is already a better Tackle than Carolina has, and will get better. That said, that many picks in the interior ? I know it needs to be addressed but I thought that Glowlinski looked like he could start in limited action. I'd let Sweezy walk.
Overall a solid premise and strategy, and I might just be being nit picky.
Erebus
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Nice draft. Do you think Nick Martin would still be available if we traded down 10 to 15 spots?
Attyla the Hawk
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Erebus":1s5x275a said:
As of today? It'd be a big risk.
Moving down from 25 to 35ish (Cowboys, Chargers, Ravens) would require someone worth trading up on their end. I can see Dallas if they pass on a QB and start sweating out the draft process. Cleveland, if they don't take one either will be taking one at 32 almost assuredly. And picking with the #1 pick in day two, they control the board for R2. So if it comes down to Dallas and Cleveland passing on QBs in R1 -- then Dallas will very likely be looking to move into the end of R1.
It's risky since Martin should be in that 25 to 50 overall range. His value is semi inflated today since the Senior Bowl is still fresh in the minds. You have to figure there are going to be 3-4 players whose combine efforts thrust them forward. I don't think Nick Martin is going to be one of those kinds of players.
I kind of have him going anywhere between 22 and 45. Depending on how the draft flows and team need.
What could artificially push him back is if teams feel there are significant other options that are still attractive in day 2 and possibly day 3. This OC bunch seems to have a lot of value in it.
Nick Martin
Graham Glasgow
Connor McGovern
Evan Boehm
Max Tuerk
Jack Allen
Ryan Kelly
This isn't a ordinal list. But I'd think Glasgow, McGovern are probably 50-100 overall prospects. Glasgow to me is hard to figure. He's definitely the guy that's come out of nowhere. Essentially a straight up UDFA by season's end. Then in the span of 2 weeks he outperforms his grade massively. Boehm and Allen kind of 95-140 overall prospects. Tuerk and Kelly 120-220 overall kinds of guys.
If Seattle doesn't go with glitz at OC, and are looking for gritty, tough and skilled OCs, I think Kelly and Allen would be very much in their wheelhouse.
Allen and Kelly should just dominate in the interview room. Both are going to have the kinds of backgrounds and attitude that Cable is going to like. And honestly there probably aren't very many teams that are in the market for an OC in the 25 to 50 overall range to begin with. I could easily see Martin slipping to a similar position that Morse fell to last year. Remember Morse was buoyed by outstanding combine/SPARQ scores. Taken by a team that covets that (KC).
If we took Martin, I'd think we were getting the best overall OC prospect. If we held off/traded back and hoped he fell into the 35-45 pool of talent I could get behind that move -- with the idea that we could still get a starter quality OC in the 65-95 overall range.
Either way, I do think we're taking one in the top 3 rounds.
jammerhawk
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Interesting Mock! Sure is a lot of food for thought there. Like the ideas comparing the Carolina OLine to a plan for the Hawks. strengthening the middle of the OLine needs to happen as several there are turnstiles and allow a lot of interior pressure on RW. I liked the mock with some reservations.
In the end I am really suspicious that the Hawks would draft a C with the 26th pick in the draft and totally pass on drafting any DT in a draft where there is an unusually large group of quite talented DTs. There are a few other capable OCs that may be had later. I do absolutely like Martin however. The OT thing is certainly problematic and a genuine need. I doubt the team goes into the draft having a glaring need at OT and a player or players will be found and added. I agree with McG that it would be unusual for the team to be in a position where they needed to draft for need.
My suspicion is that the team will draft a DT in the 1st rd. or after a small trade back b/c of the many solid choices they'll have at that point. The pool of talent this draft at OG seems fairly deep and the team might be able to bolster the interior OLine drafting developmental players later and elevating some of the backups to starter, like Glowinski. For sure I doubt the Sokoli experiment is complete. Britt will need to work hard to remain on the team. Several of the reasonable draftable candidates at OT may be better Gs at any rate. Don't think the answer and the fix for the OLline will occur sole by the draft.
I am very curious about the OLB- Jones from LSU. I wonder like others if his highest and best positional use might be SS as he hits pretty well and is better than average in coverage and seems very smart about his onfield responsibilities. I'm doubtful the team will draft a RB with a 4th rd pick or will even draft a RB at all preferring to find a few UDFA candidates to compete for a spot. I like the choice of the CB in the 5th, this player totally fits the team's parameters as a few others do as well, there is some seeming inevitability in this pick or the positional pick. Am curious about the WR and the DE last chosen but suspect a DE might be taken earlier.
In the end I am really suspicious that the Hawks would draft a C with the 26th pick in the draft and totally pass on drafting any DT in a draft where there is an unusually large group of quite talented DTs. There are a few other capable OCs that may be had later. I do absolutely like Martin however. The OT thing is certainly problematic and a genuine need. I doubt the team goes into the draft having a glaring need at OT and a player or players will be found and added. I agree with McG that it would be unusual for the team to be in a position where they needed to draft for need.
My suspicion is that the team will draft a DT in the 1st rd. or after a small trade back b/c of the many solid choices they'll have at that point. The pool of talent this draft at OG seems fairly deep and the team might be able to bolster the interior OLine drafting developmental players later and elevating some of the backups to starter, like Glowinski. For sure I doubt the Sokoli experiment is complete. Britt will need to work hard to remain on the team. Several of the reasonable draftable candidates at OT may be better Gs at any rate. Don't think the answer and the fix for the OLline will occur sole by the draft.
I am very curious about the OLB- Jones from LSU. I wonder like others if his highest and best positional use might be SS as he hits pretty well and is better than average in coverage and seems very smart about his onfield responsibilities. I'm doubtful the team will draft a RB with a 4th rd pick or will even draft a RB at all preferring to find a few UDFA candidates to compete for a spot. I like the choice of the CB in the 5th, this player totally fits the team's parameters as a few others do as well, there is some seeming inevitability in this pick or the positional pick. Am curious about the WR and the DE last chosen but suspect a DE might be taken earlier.
kearly
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Dahl in the 4th makes sense. If Feeney goes undrafted, I'd expect him to stay local.
Martin is a 'safe' pick. I like it. But Seattle has generally rolled the dice more on OL. And Martin doesn't fit the uber athlete prototype at all. I'd like the pick but I'm thinking Seattle will grade Martin lower than they should.
Ever since Cable got here, the Seahawks have tended to grade OL prospects very differently from the rest of the league. Even James Carpenter had most fans saying "who?" on draft day. Drafting 'names' on the OL hasn't been a thing since Cable got here, including the 2014 draft when Seattle had Joel Bitonio fall to their pick and the Seahawks response may as well have been "meh".
Unfortunately, I think you have to look at round 2-3 guys on the OL for Seattle's first pick. And round 3-5 guys on the OL for Seattle's second pick.
It's a problem, but it will likely continue to be a problem until Cable and PC/JS self-repudiate their OL process. Which tellingly, they have not. I'm expecting more of the same this year too (Justin Britt type picks). Sadly.
Martin is a 'safe' pick. I like it. But Seattle has generally rolled the dice more on OL. And Martin doesn't fit the uber athlete prototype at all. I'd like the pick but I'm thinking Seattle will grade Martin lower than they should.
Ever since Cable got here, the Seahawks have tended to grade OL prospects very differently from the rest of the league. Even James Carpenter had most fans saying "who?" on draft day. Drafting 'names' on the OL hasn't been a thing since Cable got here, including the 2014 draft when Seattle had Joel Bitonio fall to their pick and the Seahawks response may as well have been "meh".
Unfortunately, I think you have to look at round 2-3 guys on the OL for Seattle's first pick. And round 3-5 guys on the OL for Seattle's second pick.
It's a problem, but it will likely continue to be a problem until Cable and PC/JS self-repudiate their OL process. Which tellingly, they have not. I'm expecting more of the same this year too (Justin Britt type picks). Sadly.
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theENGLISHseahawk
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On Carpenter -- he wasn't a 'name' in a lot of draft circles, but we talked about him a lot at SDB. He was, IMO, without doubt the best run blocker in college football in 2010. And that's why they drafted him. Carroll made it clear the #1 priority was to improve the running game. He was also a player many believed would go in rounds 2-3 (not unlike Martin) who ended up going at #25.
Carpenter was long but he wasn't a major SPARQ athlete or anything. Ditto Moffitt who they took in the third. Another run blocker. They fit perfectly what they wanted to improve.
I'd also argue Britt fit more of a profile than offered any kind of major upside. He was physical, had no ego and was an ex-wrestler Cable thought he could coach up. Britt wasn't so much about upside as he was being receptive to coaching with the skills and attitude Cable likes.
Martin isn't unlike either of these picks. He would help solve their biggest priority as named by Carroll (consistency and toughness on the OL) and he has the kind of personality Cable will like (no ego, no nonsense).
Carpenter was long but he wasn't a major SPARQ athlete or anything. Ditto Moffitt who they took in the third. Another run blocker. They fit perfectly what they wanted to improve.
I'd also argue Britt fit more of a profile than offered any kind of major upside. He was physical, had no ego and was an ex-wrestler Cable thought he could coach up. Britt wasn't so much about upside as he was being receptive to coaching with the skills and attitude Cable likes.
Martin isn't unlike either of these picks. He would help solve their biggest priority as named by Carroll (consistency and toughness on the OL) and he has the kind of personality Cable will like (no ego, no nonsense).
