Options at #26 who wouldn't feel like reaches

Who are the players that Seattle could take at #26 and you would feel satisfied with the value of the pick?

For me (in no particular order):

Leonard Floyd (I get Cliff Avril vibes from him)
Emmanuel Ogbah (closest thing to JPP since JPP. I don't think Seattle is interested though)
Darron Lee (he's a little over-rated, but Pete could polish him into another Bobby Wagner)
Jack Conklin (Growing on me the more I watch)
Ryan Kelly (a little bit of a reach, but considering the dropoff to the next best "athletic" center...)
Germain Ifedi (I'm really digging the Kelechi Osemele comparisons. It's hard to argue with them)
Le'Raven Clark (I have a hunch he's much higher on draft boards than the media thinks)
Shon Coleman (I'm guessing he drops because of medical, but in terms of talent he's a 1st rounder)

...

Players I intentionally left off (who I think would be poor value at #26):

Sheldon Rankins (simply too rich for a guy that's probably the next Atybba Rubin or Sharrif Floyd)
Andrew Billings (He's good. But in four years you'll be able to sign him for half of what JR Sweezy makes)
Jonathan Bullard (kind of feels like the Bruce Irvin of DTs. One trick pony with lots of heart and athleticism)
Kevin Dodd (reminds me of Courtney Upshaw)
Shaq Lawson (good player, but I don't think he is athletic enough to star in the NFL at DE)
Cody Whitehair (I like him, but he feels like a big reach in round 1)
Derrick Henry (he's the incredible Hulk version of Robert Turbin. I don't think he'd mesh with Seattle's run blocking)
Jason Spriggs (great athlete but one who struggles with recovery and anchor. His tape reminds me of Justin Britt)

Players I like at 26

Josh Doctson: #1 Sparq receiver, great hands and body control, not sure he falls this low, not a need right now, but could be insurance in case we cannot resign Baldwin or if we release Kearse in 1-2 years when his cap hit drops.

Darron Lee: I like your comparison to Bobby Wagner, terrific athlete, i think he fits better at Will than Sam, but KJ seems to have the Will spot nailed down.

Ryan Kelly: Polished started that the coaching staff will be able to plug and play without having to worry about another conversion project, 10 yr reliable starter, but not a sexy pick.

Noah Spence: Doesn't fit the size or athletic profile that Seattle goes for, but has more pass rush polish than Floyd, but character concerns do worry me

Ogbah: Great production, prototype size and speed, sometimes looks a little stiff in his movements, but could be a late riser that doesn't make it to 26

Billings: I like his production and power, and the fact that he only just turned 21, I like him more than others



Players I dislike

Taylor Decker, Jack Conklin: I get Breno Giacomini vibes from both players, I always prefer players that meet the athletic profile like La'Raven Clark and Shon Coleman, I just don't see great value in getting a RT in round 1.

A'shawn Robinson: Only flashes dominance, not enough consistency and is a classic boom or bust player

Derrick Henry: Needs a better o-line to contribute, will not be able to create plays from nothing

Eli Apple: or any cb for the matter, I think Seattle has a good stable of db's and have a knack for finding late round gems at the position on a frequent basis.

kearly":easlfdn3 said:

Who are are your players that Seattle could take at #26 and you would feel satisfied with the value of the pick?

For me (in no particular order):
...
Le'Raven Clark (I have a hunch he's much higher on draft boards than the media thinks)
...

Players I intentionally left off (who I think would be poor value at #26):
...
Jason Spriggs (great athlete but one who struggles with recovery and anchor. His tape reminds me of Justin Britt)

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I will admit I don't watch much college film but from what I've read from Rob, Le'Raven Clark has terrible tape. That's the same reason you use to justify Spriggs being a reach. How can Clark be worthy of a 1st round pick with bad tape but Spriggs isn't? I personally would be very disappointed with Clark in the 1st round.

I share the same feelings on some of these guys but not all. If we stay at 26 here is a list I am OK with taking at that spot.

Coleman - I love his tape. Think physically and athletically he has top 5 potential at the position. Guy with grit, getting through cancer he just screams Seahawks. Age and medical are deterrents, but we took Irvin in RD1 while he was the same age. A realistic pick at 26, should be there.

Conklin - I like him at LT, think he answered athleticism questions at the combine, but he is also a guy I think would be an all-pro type LG if kicked inside much like Zack Martin. Would compete with Gilliam/Sowell at LT if he isn't ready let him take Britts spot and maul guys. Probably not there at 26, but could be close.

Rankins - I don't share the same evaluation on Rankins as you do. I see a guy that has a full repertoire of pass rush moves and is very technically refined rushing from inside. He always gets push, and is very stout in the run game. Would be a perfect compliment to Rubin. Would allow you to get more rush out of your base D but also be a terror in nickel packages. Would be very surprised to see him there at 26 however.

Bullard - Another guy we don't really agree on. I think he is a moveable piece much like Bennett. He can play base DE and be very stout setting the edge and slide inside and rush the passer. He is a mismatch inside much like Bennett is. Having those 2 moveable pieces would be a nightmare for teams. Another realistic pick at 26, should be there.

Billings - I'd be surprised if he does not go in the top 15. But, if he was there I'd be ecstatic if he was the pick. Can play 0, 1 , or 3 technique. Essentially, can fill in Mebane's role right away but is much more dynamic than Mebane. A guy that can anchor down and 2 gap, but also shoot gaps with quickness off the snap. He is a really fun player to watch.

Floyd - Like you, I really like Floyd. His upside as a rusher is huge. Great length, quickness, speed, bends the edge, speed to power. I like him a little more as a backer than you, more because of upside than how good he was in college. His instincts weren't natural, but he covers well, can set the edge, and is a sideline to sideline guy. if asked to play the Irvin role at Sam I think he would be more than capable. A realistic pick, but could also see him taken top 15 based on upside.

Ogbah - he runs a little hot and cold, but when the effort is there he jumps off the screen. His get off is ridiculous, especially considering his size. The JPP comparison is a good one. Size, length, speed. Has potential to be a fantastic every down DE. A realistic pick, but again could see him go top 15 due to lack of pass rushing edge players in this draft and his immense upside.

I'd be OK with Kelly I suppose. I like the tape and see a good, stable player so it would be hard for me to dislike the pick. Just think we would be leaving better players on the board in that case.

Spriggs is another guy I'd be OK with. Only real thing lacking in his game is power. Has good feet, a great athlete, but needs to play with better leverage. I'd prefer a trade back in this scenario, but I would get the pick. Like Kelly though, I would feel we are leaving better players on the board.

I would not be happy with either Ifedi or Clark at 26. Clark is a straight up strip down to the bones project. His technique is so bad, he will need at least a year to redshirt before he even sees the field IMO. I agree, the upside with him is huge. he's got great feet and his length is ridiculous, but far too big of a project for me to take in the 1st round.

Ifedi needs work too. He is a nice athlete and basically your prototypical LT as far as measurables go. Maybe Cable can get him ready by season, but to me he is not a plug and play guy right away.

There are not a lot of players @ 26 that don't feel like reaches. For me Conklin, Rankins, Kelly, and Lee are it. Though Bullard, Billings, Floyd, Whitehair, Nkemdiche, and Ogbah are interesting , but each has limitations; most however won't fall to the Hawks pick. Nkemdiche would offer value if the team could be satisfied about his character and I have reservations about him.

Each of the 2nd tier OTs will have a lengthy developmental period i.e.: Ifedi, Clark, Spriggs, and Coleman. None seem to be immediate plug and play although Coleman if healthy could quickly be a strong RT for his career. The others have the athletic profile the team seems to prefer. Coleman has the nasty, Cable would love his physicality.

As mentioned earlier in another thread the all the options become easier to justify starting at pick 35. I agree with most of the negatives on players stated above by others and think the team must be thinking hard about trading back into the 2nd if the right player is not available at #26.


* edited to add Floyd, Whitehair, Nkemdiche *

I'll start off with player I hope we avoid at 26. I need to do some more study to refine my favorites in the first.

I don't see the value of RT in the 1st round, or guard/center unless he's absolutely elite. Ryan Kelly is borderline imho.

I do not like Ifedi. He failed at LT at A&M and they moved him back to RT.

Looking at his poor performance in college, Le'Raven seems mentally slow and I wonder if he'll ever live up to the expectations his physique. I don't think he's worth the risk at 26.

I was in love with Spriggs early on, but he gives me the injury vibe. He just doesn't seem to have the "big bones" needed for his body to hold up to all that athleticism when it's pitted against NFL caliber defensive players.

I just don't feel confident in Bullard's ability to translate to the NFL. I think after a couple of years, he will be a very good, Mebane caliber player, but not early on.

There's something weird about Taylor Decker's blocking, he gets his chest up against defensive players, and I think he'll get eaten alive trying that technique in the NFL. He makes me think of Robert Gallery, although IIRC, Decker has longer arms.

Nkemdiche, 3rd round at the earliest. The guy is trouble, and doesn't love the game of football. He and his brother have gotten involved in some weird shit.

Every now and then, I review Bullards stats and write ups on him, and I start to doubt my evaluation, thinking, "This guy could be another Geno Atkins." But then it passes. :3-1:

I've got my handy Seahawk-centric, SPARQ adjusted value board, and once I filer it a little bit, where's who MIGHT be available that would feel like solid picks to me. In order of best value IMO.

DE/LB Leonard Gloyd (#3 overall) - i think he screams Seattle, but I don't think he falls that far. I think he's the surprise top 10 pick that everyone guffaws every year. But if Seattle had a shot, they'd take it.

DT Robert Nkemdiche, Ole Miss (#4 overall) - For some reason he doesn't scare me at all. Get him out of the spotlight and in with some seasoned vets to mentor him, and I think he turns a corner pretty quick. His overall tape suggests some concerns with effort, but his highlight reel and athletic ability scream pro-bowler. I'm willing to take the risk.

LB Darron Lee, Ohio St. (#8 overall) - This would feel very safe to me. Boring. But solid. Is he any better than Malcolm Smith? I'm not sure. But as a 2 down linebacker with speed, range and cover ability, I guess there is some value there.

WR Josh Doctson, TCU (#9 overall) - A player I love and fits what the Seahawks like a need. He's a younger, healthier version of Sydney Rice. Excellent leaper, fantastic body control athlete who wins the contested catch. He's the sideline, back shoulder artist that Kearse is, but with a much more well rounded game and much higher upside.

DT Jonathan Bullard, Florida (#11 overall) - I think we will love his athletic ability and the way he turned it on his senior year. he fights every play and wants to be great, and he's the ideal candidate to take over for MB.

DE Emmanuel Ogbah, OK State (#15 overall) - He's got the length and explosion the Seahawks love, but I don't think his agility measures up and he doesn't have the bend around the corner I'd like to see from a speed rusher. But his value here is good.

OL Cody Whitehair, K State, (#22 overall) - versatile Lineman that Cable will love but while he has experience at tackle, his length limits him inside in the NFL, most likely at center. He's a bit redundant with Glowinski in the near future unless they are changing their tune at LG to include more athletic prospects.

OL Germaine Ifedi, Texas A&M, (#23 Overall) - He's gonna bneed some coaching and reps and work on his core strength, but his athletic upside and his quickness out of his stance scream Left tackle. He'd probably start out at LG though for us.

Amongst others, while preferring an offensive lineman, I could really get on board with A'Shawn or Billings given how young they are and how good the dline coaching is here.

McGruff":37evm2pl said:

I've got my handy Seahawk-centric, SPARQ adjusted value board, and once I filer it a little bit, where's who MIGHT be available that would feel like solid picks to me. In order of best value IMO.

DE/LB Leonard Gloyd (#3 overall) - i think he screams Seattle, but I don't think he falls that far. I think he's the surprise top 10 pick that everyone guffaws every year. But if Seattle had a shot, they'd take it.

DT Robert Nkemdiche, Ole Miss (#4 overall) - For some reason he doesn't scare me at all. Get him out of the spotlight and in with some seasoned vets to mentor him, and I think he turns a corner pretty quick. His overall tape suggests some concerns with effort, but his highlight reel and athletic ability scream pro-bowler. I'm willing to take the risk.

LB Darron Lee, Ohio St. (#8 overall) - This would feel very safe to me. Boring. But solid. Is he any better than Malcolm Smith? I'm not sure. But as a 2 down linebacker with speed, range and cover ability, I guess there is some value there.

WR Josh Doctson, TCU (#9 overall) - A player I love and fits what the Seahawks like a need. He's a younger, healthier version of Sydney Rice. Excellent leaper, fantastic body control athlete who wins the contested catch. He's the sideline, back shoulder artist that Kearse is, but with a much more well rounded game and much higher upside.

DT Jonathan Bullard, Florida (#11 overall) - I think we will love his athletic ability and the way he turned it on his senior year. he fights every play and wants to be great, and he's the ideal candidate to take over for MB.

DE Emmanuel Ogbah, OK State (#15 overall) - He's got the length and explosion the Seahawks love, but I don't think his agility measures up and he doesn't have the bend around the corner I'd like to see from a speed rusher. But his value here is good.

OL Cody Whitehair, K State, (#22 overall) - versatile Lineman that Cable will love but while he has experience at tackle, his length limits him inside in the NFL, most likely at center. He's a bit redundant with Glowinski in the near future unless they are changing their tune at LG to include more athletic prospects.

OL Germaine Ifedi, Texas A&M, (#23 Overall) - He's gonna bneed some coaching and reps and work on his core strength, but his athletic upside and his quickness out of his stance scream Left tackle. He'd probably start out at LG though for us.

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Nice list. I would definitely add Whitehair and Nkemdiche to my list as well. For whatever reason they slipped my mind.

Like you, I am not too scared of Nkemdiche. I get why people are, but he flashes absolute game wrecker ability.

Doctson is probably my favorite WR in this draft, but I guess it is just positional need/value I wouldn't like with it. I think I would be plenty excited with it though, I absolutely love the player.

In the same sense as Doctson, I would add Elliot. Most complete back to come out in the last few years, Gurley included. Again though, positional value causes me to want a different direction but the player I absolutely love.

I didn't put Elliot or Henry on the list, although I think they would be good value. I have Henry at #14 overall and Elliot at #17.

I included Doctson because I think his value there is great enough to overcome our lack of need at the position.

McGruff":2v11xk4v said:

I didn't put Elliot or Henry on the list, although I think they would be good value. I have Henry at #14 overall and Elliot at #17.

I included Doctson because I think his value there is great enough to overcome our lack of need at the position.

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Ya, it would be hard for me to be upset with the pick. I love Doctson, goes up and gets the ball as well as anyone I have evaluated. I like Henry, not sure about round 1 like but I like him. I would totally get the pick though. I currently have a late 1st early 2nd grade on him so I guess the value wouldn't be too bad.

I find it interesting that there isnt any of the upper tier corners on anybody's list. I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibilities.

penihawk":ag9mgxvw said:

I find it interesting that there isnt any of the upper tier corners on anybody's list. I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibilities.

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I don't see corner being high on our list at all. The Seahakws have one DB in the first 3 rounds, ever . . . and that was a safety, Earl Thomas. They love the 4th and 5th rounds for corners.

In addition, we have pretty good depth and development at the position. Lane is the best #2 we've ever had in Seattle, and we just locked him up long term. Shead and Burley have proven they can play. Simon and Smith have experience in the system and significant upside. Baptist and Farmer are wild cards.

Erebus":1ynqsnxr said:

I will admit I don't watch much college film but from what I've read from Rob, Le'Raven Clark has terrible tape. That's the same reason you use to justify Spriggs being a reach. How can Clark be worthy of a 1st round pick with bad tape but Spriggs isn't? I personally would be very disappointed with Clark in the 1st round.

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Clark's tape is actually pretty good considering how many things he does wrong with technique. He's got a high floor to go with his high ceiling, whereas Spriggs is boom or bust.

pcbball12":dmt3xqip said:

Like you, I am not too scared of Nkemdiche. I get why people are, but he flashes absolute game wrecker ability.

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Nkemdiche he had just 6 sacks and 16 TFL's over 29 college games. I don't think anyone is concerned as much as they are questioning the hype.

kearly":291dduj5 said:

pcbball12":291dduj5 said:

Like you, I am not too scared of Nkemdiche. I get why people are, but he flashes absolute game wrecker ability.

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Nkemdiche he had just 6 sacks and 16 TFL's over 29 college games. I don't think anyone is concerned as much as they are questioning the hype.

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The stats are what they are. But when the effort is there, he is damn near unblockable. It's the way he flashes on film that has me so high on him. I get the character concerns, and I am pretty sure that is one of the biggest reasons why people are turned off on him. But, at 26 the type of potential he has just doesn't fall there.

pcbball12":xobjhrqc said:

kearly":xobjhrqc said:

pcbball12":xobjhrqc said:

Like you, I am not too scared of Nkemdiche. I get why people are, but he flashes absolute game wrecker ability.

Click to expand...

Nkemdiche he had just 6 sacks and 16 TFL's over 29 college games. I don't think anyone is concerned as much as they are questioning the hype.

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The stats are what they are. But when the effort is there, he is damn near unblockable. It's the way he flashes on film that has me so high on him. I get the character concerns, and I am pretty sure that is one of the biggest reasons why people are turned off on him. But, at 26 the type of potential he has just doesn't fall there.

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I've watched a couple of his games and I honestly don't think effort is his problem. He can't navigate through blocks, doesn't explode off the snap, isn't good against the run... Even his highlight reel is pretty short, and he wasn't able to put things together in 3 years.

Historically it seems like guys who are hyped into the 1st round despite poor college performance have generally faired poorly.

kearly":3v8fitxc said:

pcbball12":3v8fitxc said:

kearly":3v8fitxc said:

pcbball12":3v8fitxc said:

Like you, I am not too scared of Nkemdiche. I get why people are, but he flashes absolute game wrecker ability.

Click to expand...

Nkemdiche he had just 6 sacks and 16 TFL's over 29 college games. I don't think anyone is concerned as much as they are questioning the hype.

Click to expand...

The stats are what they are. But when the effort is there, he is damn near unblockable. It's the way he flashes on film that has me so high on him. I get the character concerns, and I am pretty sure that is one of the biggest reasons why people are turned off on him. But, at 26 the type of potential he has just doesn't fall there.

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I've watched a couple of his games and I honestly don't think effort is his problem. He can't navigate through blocks, doesn't explode off the snap, isn't good against the run... Even his highlight reel is pretty short, and he wasn't able to put things together in 3 years. And it seems like historically that guys who are hyped into the 1st round despite poor college performance have generally faired poorly.

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I guess we just disagree on the tape then...and that's fine. I watched all games they had of him on draftbreakdown and came away with a different opinion. From what I saw, if they singled up on him he won every time just about. Teams had to double him or their entire game was wrecked. Seems he is a polarizing player though, tons of varying opinions.

Sounds like a typical Seahawks late first rounder to me. A guy that would be top-ten if not for some warts. Trying to hit a home run when all the sure-thing home runs are gone.

McGruff":2tcrru1j said:

penihawk":2tcrru1j said:

I find it interesting that there isnt any of the upper tier corners on anybody's list. I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibilities.

Click to expand...

I don't see corner being high on our list at all. The Seahakws have one DB in the first 3 rounds, ever . . . and that was a safety, Earl Thomas. They love the 4th and 5th rounds for corners.

In addition, we have pretty good depth and development at the position. Lane is the best #2 we've ever had in Seattle, and we just locked him up long term. Shead and Burley have proven they can play. Simon and Smith have experience in the system and significant upside. Baptist and Farmer are wild cards.

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Besides being able to see all that for ourselves....Pete's even said as much.

"Really thought DeShawn Shead did a great job last year," Carroll said. "But I think the combination of Jeremy and DeShawn gives us two different style corners, and both those guys play the nickel spot. It allows us to flip guys around matchup-wise. Richard as well, as we did last year. So we have all the flexibility, the best flexibility we've ever had, and it allows us to go into the draft and not have to be concerned about having to get a guy. With the young competition that we have, we think that it's a pretty strong position for us."

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