Trading Down Again

nrayorr · Apr 2, 2016

Hey everyone.

What do you think the chances of our team moving down again? I think the chances are high that we do especially if the Patriots want to trade up into the 1st round. Me thinks in order for us to do something like that again we should ask for a lot especially if the Patriots want it. Here is what the Patriots have:

Second round: 60th overall selection

Second round: 61st overall selection (from Arizona Cardinals)

Third round: 91st overall selection

Third round: 96th overall selection (compensatory)

Sixth round: 196th overall selection (from Houston Texans)

Sixth round: 204th overall selection (reacquired from Chicago Bears)

Sixth round: 208th overall selection (compensatory)

Sixth round: 214th overall selection (compensatory)

Sixth round: 221st overall selection (compensatory)

Seventh round: 243rd overall selection (from Houston)

Seventh round: 250th overall selection

Myself, I would want both their 2nd round picks or one 2nd and a 3rd of this years draft. I know that the Patriots most likely will not give up both 2nd rounders, but let's not forget what New Orleans did when Mikey traded his entire draft for one player.

goseahawks2012 · Apr 2, 2016

Patriots are not allowed to trade up to 26. Part of the punishment for deflate gate. They can only trade up to 30.

Seafan · Apr 2, 2016

Chances seem good they will trade down.

HawkFan72 · Apr 2, 2016

Unless there is a player they are absolutely in love with, I think the Hawks will always try to trade down.

Bobblehead · Apr 2, 2016

I want to know how many rookies have a reasonable shot at making the team?

I doubt there is a lot that can make the team with out veteran club as it is. That said, why would we want quantity, over quality? If we do want quantity using the theory as a lot and see who sticks method of drafting, why not trade for future picks that we can probably get more in return when current veteran contracts are up and we need players?

I just don't want to see draft choices wasted.

mikeak · Apr 3, 2016

Really curious what makes the OP think that Patriots will trade with Seahawks specifically. Trades on game day will be totally dependent on what player is available in the draft spot for BOTH teams. As in one needs to want a player to move up and other not care or think they get a guy later

So will we trade down - nobody knows

Hawkfish · Apr 3, 2016

Bobblehead":1jd8t2n7 said:
I want to know how many rookies have a reasonable shot at making the team?

Probably any drafted OL prospect and maybe DL.

bjornanderson21 · Apr 3, 2016

Bobblehead":1v6gi64d said:
I want to know how many rookies have a reasonable shot at making the team?

I doubt there is a lot that can make the team with out veteran club as it is. That said, why would we want quantity, over quality? If we do want quantity using the theory as a lot and see who sticks method of drafting, why not trade for future picks that we can probably get more in return when current veteran contracts are up and we need players?

I just don't want to see draft choices wasted.

How many have an impact as a rookie largely depends on whether we draft for needs.

That's why i'm always in favor of BPA at PON (best player available at position of need).

You decrease your draft effectiveness when you don't draft for needs UNLESS you either draft a future Pro Bowler or decide to cut a vet to save money.

Back when the Hawks drafted Michael we did not have a need at RB and he was indeed drafted too early. He wasn't a future Pro Bowler and we weren't getting rid of a vet contract for him to replace. We did not need a RB but we reached for one early. That was easily one of the worst draft picks in the Pete Carroll era.

BelgianHawk · Apr 3, 2016

Bobblehead":3g1m0310 said:
I want to know how many rookies have a reasonable shot at making the team?

I doubt there is a lot that can make the team with out veteran club as it is. That said, why would we want quantity, over quality? If we do want quantity using the theory as a lot and see who sticks method of drafting, why not trade for future picks that we can probably get more in return when current veteran contracts are up and we need players?

I just don't want to see draft choices wasted.

Trading down isn't necessarily about getting more quantity.
History has often showed that the Seahawks grade players a little different from other teams and are prepared to reach for one of 'their' guys. If no truly exceptional talent is left at #26, they might feel like they can get one of their targets after trading down. The picks acquired in that scenario can help in moving up in other rounds. Look at what they did for Lockett last year, trading 4 picks to move up 26 spots. A trade down in round 1 would heavily increase their flexibility in the draft and allow them to make a similar trade as last year without giving up much of what they started the draft with.

I agree quality should be more important than quantity with the Seahawks' roster in mind, but I believe trading down would help in getting the players they want.

Davidess · Apr 4, 2016

trading our late 1 for the patriots 2 second rd picks seems a bit maddenish to me. I think if we were to trade back into the 2nd we would maybe net a 4th and maybe an additional mid round pick or at most a 3rd.

honestly it will depend on who comes calling and who's available when its our turn to pick.

I would not be surprised if they trade back and nab Nkemdiche. Headache? Yes but they nabbed Clark which was a shocker and something that up until he played was talked about negatively in the media. Just saying I wouldn't be surprised haha

Willyeye · Apr 4, 2016

I think for the #26 pick, the Hawks could get a mid-2nd round pick and a mid-3rd round pick. That would be the most likely scenario according to all of the trade value charts I've researched. They could get a 2nd and a 4th and a 5th, but I don't think they'd do that...too many crappy picks for giving away a 1st rounder. Depending on which players the Hawks have graded as 1st round picks, I believe they will find the available players at #26 not to be 1st round values. Consequently, I think if they're able to find a trading partner, they'll make a trade. The difficulty will be in finding a willing partner. I don't think there's any chance it would be the Patriots.

Willyeye · Apr 4, 2016

Oh, and Nkemdiche would NOT be a good risk. I think he is the type of player that allows his bad behavior to adversely affect his love of the game. I don't see him as getting past his bad behavior and/or getting serious about playing football. His bad behavior reminds me of more like the Manziel type. He's not in the same category as Clark or Irvin...in fact, Irvin cleaned up his act before he was a senior. Nkemdiche was doing bad stuff as a senior.

chet380 · Apr 4, 2016

Willyeye":2datagkv said:
Oh, and Nkemdiche would NOT be a good risk. I think he is the type of player that allows his bad behavior to adversely affect his love of the game. I don't see him as getting past his bad behavior and/or getting serious about playing football. His bad behavior reminds me of more like the Manziel type. He's not in the same category as Clark or Irvin...in fact, Irvin cleaned up his act before he was a senior. Nkemdiche was doing bad stuff as a senior.

Keep in mind all the "bad behavior" BS about Marcus Peters.

DJrmb · Apr 4, 2016

chet380":jvb9c0ul said:
Willyeye":jvb9c0ul said:

Oh, and Nkemdiche would NOT be a good risk. I think he is the type of player that allows his bad behavior to adversely affect his love of the game. I don't see him as getting past his bad behavior and/or getting serious about playing football. His bad behavior reminds me of more like the Manziel type. He's not in the same category as Clark or Irvin...in fact, Irvin cleaned up his act before he was a senior. Nkemdiche was doing bad stuff as a senior.

Click to expand...

Keep in mind all the "bad behavior" BS about Marcus Peters.

That is not a good comparison at all. Peters trouble was clashing with his coaches, being too fired up and passionate and not knowing how to control that and communicate properly and maturely. Nkemdiche is someone who's getting into legal troubles because of his actions and addictions. One player is passionate about football and his play, the other is passionate about getting high and having fun.

Nkemdiche is not a fit here in Seattle.

pcbball12 · Apr 4, 2016

DJrmb":tqh2iein said:
chet380":tqh2iein said:

Willyeye":tqh2iein said:

Oh, and Nkemdiche would NOT be a good risk. I think he is the type of player that allows his bad behavior to adversely affect his love of the game. I don't see him as getting past his bad behavior and/or getting serious about playing football. His bad behavior reminds me of more like the Manziel type. He's not in the same category as Clark or Irvin...in fact, Irvin cleaned up his act before he was a senior. Nkemdiche was doing bad stuff as a senior.

Click to expand...

Keep in mind all the "bad behavior" BS about Marcus Peters.

Click to expand...

That is not a good comparison at all. Peters trouble was clashing with his coaches, being too fired up and passionate and not knowing how to control that and communicate properly and maturely. Nkemdiche is someone who's getting into legal troubles because of his actions and addictions. One player is passionate about football and his play, the other is passionate about getting high and having fun.

Nkemdiche is not a fit here in Seattle.

Not that I know one way or another if this is true. But, I just think it's funny people throw definite statements like this about a guy when you have no clue what kind of person he really is. You have what you have heard about him, in the most insincere time of the year (pre draft rumor season). He has made documented mistakes and there are definitely red flags, but you have no clue whether he loves the game and what he is passionate about. The front office will do their digging and if they conclude that he is too risky I am fine with that. They will have their hands on much more REAL info than we have access to.

To say you don't like the risk involved with him based on what you've heard is one thing. Just leave it at that.

DJrmb · Apr 4, 2016

pcbball12":1qz7a5i7 said:
DJrmb":1qz7a5i7 said:

chet380":1qz7a5i7 said:

Willyeye":1qz7a5i7 said:

Oh, and Nkemdiche would NOT be a good risk. I think he is the type of player that allows his bad behavior to adversely affect his love of the game. I don't see him as getting past his bad behavior and/or getting serious about playing football. His bad behavior reminds me of more like the Manziel type. He's not in the same category as Clark or Irvin...in fact, Irvin cleaned up his act before he was a senior. Nkemdiche was doing bad stuff as a senior.

Click to expand...

Keep in mind all the "bad behavior" BS about Marcus Peters.

Click to expand...

That is not a good comparison at all. Peters trouble was clashing with his coaches, being too fired up and passionate and not knowing how to control that and communicate properly and maturely. Nkemdiche is someone who's getting into legal troubles because of his actions and addictions. One player is passionate about football and his play, the other is passionate about getting high and having fun.

Nkemdiche is not a fit here in Seattle.

Click to expand...

Not that I know one way or another if this is true. But, I just think it's funny people throw definite statements like this about a guy when you have no clue what kind of person he really is. You have what you have heard about him, in the most insincere time of the year (pre draft rumor season). He has made documented mistakes and there are definitely red flags, but you have no clue whether he loves the game and what he is passionate about. The front office will do their digging and if they conclude that he is too risky I am fine with that. They will have their hands on much more REAL info than we have access to.

To say you don't like the risk involved with him based on what you've heard is one thing. Just leave it at that.

A person is judged based on their actions. You're correct, I don't know mr. Nkemdiche personally, but he has documented issues that have been made public which ultimately tells a story about his personality and who he is. Welcome to society, we're all judged based on our actions every day. What do you think a credit score is after all? I don't think many of us have a personal relationship with Equifax...

Hell, you even made an assumption or judgement yourself. You assumed that I don't know Nkemdiche personally. Whether you were right or wrong does not change the fact that you did exactly what you're saying others shouldn't and you made an assumption about someone that you do not know. You contradicted your own argument within the argument itself. :lol:

Based on the documented illegal and illicit actions mr. Nkemdeche has taken part in I believe it shows a tendency to put his own entertainment and lusts above his commitment to his teammates and his job. How about that? Is that better worded for you?

Davidess · Apr 5, 2016

I draw a quick comparison between JR Sweezy and Nkemdiche in the way of off field concerns. JR Sweezy coming out had gotten in trouble for having pot in his house and also for assaulting a 65yo bus driver. He was a DT convert picked in the 7th round. Nkemdiche will be coming into the league with a SIMILAR track record but with a greater potential than Sweezy. Hawks will do their homework and honestly like ive stated before I wouldn't be surprised if hes the pick kind of like Frank Clark or Sweezy. Nkemdiche was considered a top 10 talent coming into this year until off field concerns derailed him.

Wonder what kind of an impact Clemons could have on Nkemdiche least in TC. Nice thing about our locker room is that we have vet DLs and they're solid group. I think that's why the hawks feel like they can take a chance on "risky" players like this.

pcbball12 · Apr 5, 2016

A person is judged based on their actions. You're correct, I don't know mr. Nkemdiche personally, but he has documented issues that have been made public which ultimately tells a story about his personality and who he is. Welcome to society, we're all judged based on our actions every day. What do you think a credit score is after all? I don't think many of us have a personal relationship with Equifax...

Hell, you even made an assumption or judgement yourself. You assumed that I don't know Nkemdiche personally. Whether you were right or wrong does not change the fact that you did exactly what you're saying others shouldn't and you made an assumption about someone that you do not know. You contradicted your own argument within the argument itself. :lol:

Based on the documented illegal and illicit actions mr. Nkemdeche has taken part in I believe it shows a tendency to put his own entertainment and lusts above his commitment to his teammates and his job. How about that? Is that better worded for you?

Our assumptions are far from similar but I'll give you that point I suppose. My point was yes, he has well documented troubles. He has red flags, I said both in my first statement. But, to make an absolute definitive statement about his passions and interests is funny to me. I get your credit score statement, however even with that there are flaws. You are given a score based on your payment history etc. Even with that score there is context to be given. Being around loan officers/underwriters for a decent part of my life, the score is one thing. When you dig into the person and figure out reasons for the score there are many times where actions are forgiven and loans get approved due to circumstances. Now there are many times where the person was just irresponsible and the score is what it is, but it all has context. Again, someone looking at just the score CAN assume the type of person they are but unless you have full context and detail on the situation it is wrong to do so. I never said he WASN'T a character risk or what you said for sure isn't true. I am just saying I am not one make those kind of definitive statements about someone I don't have that kind of information about. I believe JS&PC will, so whatever they decide about him I will support.

DJrmb · Apr 5, 2016

pcbball12":3b7e26w3 said:
Our assumptions are far from similar but I'll give you that point I suppose. My point was yes, he has well documented troubles. He has red flags, I said both in my first statement. But, to make an absolute definitive statement about his passions and interests is funny to me. I get your credit score statement, however even with that there are flaws. You are given a score based on your payment history etc. Even with that score there is context to be given. Being around loan officers/underwriters for a decent part of my life, the score is one thing. When you dig into the person and figure out reasons for the score there are many times where actions are forgiven and loans get approved due to circumstances. Now there are many times where the person was just irresponsible and the score is what it is, but it all has context. Again, someone looking at just the score CAN assume the type of person they are but unless you have full context and detail on the situation it is wrong to do so. I never said he WASN'T a character risk or what you said for sure isn't true. I am just saying I am not one make those kind of definitive statements about someone I don't have that kind of information about. I believe JS&PC will, so whatever they decide about him I will support.

I can see where you're coming from to a degree. However, credit scores are only one example of how we are all judged daily. Whether you believe it's right or wrong it is a necessary evil in a large society. We don't have the time to personally get to know every single person on an intimate level to confirm every assumption we have made about their character. We all make quick judgements on other people every day in order to live our lives, where we disagree is whether that is right or wrong.

A woman walking down the street at night crosses the street because there is a large man walking along the same side of the street. Is she wrong for doing so? Did she unfairly judge him not knowing him? Maybe, but would you really fault her for making a quick judgement and doing what she thought best in the time to keep herself safe?

Many large corporations now get thousands of applications for their job openings. Many of them have instituted a policy of throwing out every resume without a college degree in order to conserve time of going through each one to get context. If they were to go through every single application and speak to each person to really find out if they are capable and competent to do the job they are hiring for they would never get to the end. They instantly judge a portion of people that apply based on one criteria.

I personally feel that there is enough information out there on Nkemdiche to make an initial assumption (or educated guess) on his character based on things he's done and others I have seen make the same mistakes. In no way am I trying to say I know 100% who he is or what he's about, and in no way am I saying he can't change either. I've formed an opinion from the information I am privy to, which is what we're here on a message board to do, we're all talking about our opinions here.

We can definitely agree on one thing though. I fully trust Pete and John to have a much more informed opinion than myself. If they draft him and say they think he's a good dude then I will be right there with them on it and give him the benefit of the doubt because they will have much more access to him and the facts than I ever will. I have my opinions but I am in no way immune from being wrong in those. I just don't believe it's wrong to form an opinion on someone based on what they have put out their because of their own actions. It's something we all live with every day, what we do effects how we're perceived.

pcbball12 · Apr 5, 2016

DJrmb":13y6xni3 said:
pcbball12":13y6xni3 said:

Our assumptions are far from similar but I'll give you that point I suppose. My point was yes, he has well documented troubles. He has red flags, I said both in my first statement. But, to make an absolute definitive statement about his passions and interests is funny to me. I get your credit score statement, however even with that there are flaws. You are given a score based on your payment history etc. Even with that score there is context to be given. Being around loan officers/underwriters for a decent part of my life, the score is one thing. When you dig into the person and figure out reasons for the score there are many times where actions are forgiven and loans get approved due to circumstances. Now there are many times where the person was just irresponsible and the score is what it is, but it all has context. Again, someone looking at just the score CAN assume the type of person they are but unless you have full context and detail on the situation it is wrong to do so. I never said he WASN'T a character risk or what you said for sure isn't true. I am just saying I am not one make those kind of definitive statements about someone I don't have that kind of information about. I believe JS&PC will, so whatever they decide about him I will support.

Click to expand...

I can see where you're coming from to a degree. However, credit scores are only one example of how we are all judged daily. Whether you believe it's right or wrong it is a necessary evil in a large society. We don't have the time to personally get to know every single person on an intimate level to confirm every assumption we have made about their character. We all make quick judgements on other people every day in order to live our lives, where we disagree is whether that is right or wrong.

A woman walking down the street at night crosses the street because there is a large man walking along the same side of the street. Is she wrong for doing so? Did she unfairly judge him not knowing him? Maybe, but would you really fault her for making a quick judgement and doing what she thought best in the time to keep herself safe?

Many large corporations now get thousands of applications for their job openings. Many of them have instituted a policy of throwing out every resume without a college degree in order to conserve time of going through each one to get context. If they were to go through every single application and speak to each person to really find out if they are capable and competent to do the job they are hiring for they would never get to the end. They instantly judge a portion of people that apply based on one criteria.

I personally feel that there is enough information out there on Nkemdiche to make an initial assumption (or educated guess) on his character based on things he's done and others I have seen make the same mistakes. In no way am I trying to say I know 100% who he is or what he's about, and in no way am I saying he can't change either. I've formed an opinion from the information I am privy to, which is what we're here on a message board to do, we're all talking about our opinions here.

We can definitely agree on one thing though. I fully trust Pete and John to have a much more informed opinion than myself. If they draft him and say they think he's a good dude then I will be right there with them on it and give him the benefit of the doubt because they will have much more access to him and the facts than I ever will. I have my opinions but I am in no way immune from being wrong in those. I just don't believe it's wrong to form an opinion on someone based on what they have put out their because of their own actions. It's something we all live with every day, what we do effects how we're perceived.

I can agree with much of what you say. It is not that you have an opinion on the matter. Maybe it is the way you worded your original post. It came off as fact or definitive (about his passions interests, etc). That is my issue. To have an opinion on someone is human nature I am not saying to not have an opinion, but you worded it like he IS this or ISN'T that. Much like people make definitive statements about a player when grading/scouting them, it is all opinion. No issue with your arguments, think it is just the way you worded your initial post.

Trading Down Again

Member

New member

New member

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

New member

New member

New member

New member

New member

New member

Member

Well-known member

New member

Well-known member

New member

New member

Well-known member

New member

Similar threads