TEF follow up: 2015 class & thoughts on the center position

Jville

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
13,241
Reaction score
1,611
6 4334891

I thought about adding this link to the existing "Cracking the Code" thread. But, it would get buried and probably missed by many in that thread.

It's a good article by Rob Staton. I've been following the theme expressed in the following quote for a number of years now .....
When asked about Sokoli in his final press conference of the 2015 season, Pete Carroll stated it was their intention to keep him at center and give him more time to learn the position. He called Sokoli an “exceptional athlete”, adding if he can make it work they’ll have “one of the really good athletes at center”.

It’s pretty obvious why they are interested in this kind of move. Aaron Donald scores a 3.63 in TEF. Geno Atkins is a 3.65. Sheldon Rankins is a 3.52. Ndamukong Suh is a 3.28.

This is the type of player you’re facing in the NFL these days.

Seattle’s plan to try and create a 3.75 counter punch is, quite frankly, brave and brilliant. If it comes off they will be visionaries (again). While some in the league hope tough, hard-nosed and overmatched players can handle the Donald’s, Atkins’, Suh’s and Rankins’ — the Seahawks have what appears to be a much better plan.

Fight fire with fire.

A good follow up read >>> [urltargetblank]http://seahawksdraftblog.com/tef-follow-up-2015-class-thoughts-on-the-center-position[/urltargetblank]
 

poplarbluffman

New member
Joined
Feb 5, 2016
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
don't want to steal your thread Atkins might have a better TEF but isn't remotely in the same class as athlete as Donald...

will say 225 lifts isn't a good measurement for power....long arm guys struggle and short armed centers(too short to play in the NFL) do 30+

best center in this draft is Whitehair along with being best guard..elite short times 4.58 and 7.53 and vision so should dominate 2nd level(where those long runs come from)


like the Pirate code is it more what you'd call guidelines than actual rules......then ok.but .they are missing out on top players if it's a rule
 

Scottemojo

Active member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
14,663
Reaction score
1
I was so stoked about the Sokoli pick. Said when it happens that if it works, it will be revolutionary in NFL terms. And as paradigm shifting as when Pete and John started targeting longer cornerbacks.
 

TeamoftheCentury

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 19, 2012
Messages
2,149
Reaction score
160
Location
Orlando, FL
Scottemojo":3lp58bm5 said:
I was so stoked about the Sokoli pick. Said when it happens that if it works, it will be revolutionary in NFL terms. And as paradigm shifting as when Pete and John started targeting longer cornerbacks.
Jury is still out. At what point would you say whether it has worked regarding Sokoli? Does he have to play this year? If he sees the field within four years? What would be a fair assessment? Sweezy played the first year, correct?

Didn't PC say that Sokoli will not be quite ready this year? Not sure the team can afford to keep taking guys that might be able to play 3 years down the road. They need to concentrate on winning now and taking guys that have a better shot to help sooner rather than later. We're not the Cleveland Browns or any team looking to a 3-4 year plan. The time is NOW.
 

kf3339

Active member
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
3,708
Reaction score
10
Scottemojo":2l0kcgw7 said:
I was so stoked about the Sokoli pick. Said when it happens that if it works, it will be revolutionary in NFL terms. And as paradigm shifting as when Pete and John started targeting longer cornerbacks.


So how many years will it take to make this conversion project work, creating a "paradigm shift" of an O-Line or OC? Because if it takes 3 years to work and he is a good center, he will then just become a free agent and sign with some other team for more money. Unless PC and JS start allocating a larger percentage of their salary cap for the O-Line which will hurt other areas of the team. Or they will have to start over again.

So what did we gain?


To me this makes no sense. There are perfectly capable O-Linemen coming out of the draft that can do the job "now". Not three or more years from now. They need to start focusing their attention on these qualified players instead of so may conversion projects.
 

Attyla the Hawk

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
2,559
Reaction score
47
TeamoftheCentury":8frlog6x said:
Scottemojo":8frlog6x said:
I was so stoked about the Sokoli pick. Said when it happens that if it works, it will be revolutionary in NFL terms. And as paradigm shifting as when Pete and John started targeting longer cornerbacks.
Jury is still out. At what point would you say whether it has worked regarding Sokoli? Does he have to play this year? If he sees the field within four years? What would be a fair assessment? Sweezy played the first year, correct?

Didn't PC say that Sokoli will not be quite ready this year? Not sure the team can afford to keep taking guys that might be able to play 3 years down the road. They need to concentrate on winning now and taking guys that have a better shot to help sooner rather than later. We're not the Cleveland Browns or any team looking to a 3-4 year plan. The time is NOW.

I think if he's not competing for a starting gig next year that might be a failed project.

Honestly though the fact he was on the 53 man roster as a 6th round pick is in and of itself a win. Most day 3 picks sit on a PS.

It's actually quite amazing how many of our day 3 picks are still around in this league. Most on other rosters. But still it's absolutely NOT normal. We're quite spoiled in our expectations for these late round prospects.

I suspect that if this roster was as barren as it was in 2011/12, Sokoli would have been pressed into duty similar to Sweezy. Sokoli was competing with Britt, who is still much better than Moffitt was in 2012. I just don't think this roster is bad enough that we are forced to play guys before they're more highly developed. I don't see the results as any different. Just that the opportunity to learn on the job is far reduced now.

These transition/development projects take time. I'm still very stoked that Sokoli is still in the mix. And if we don't have to play him this year, I think that's a good sign. Means we have some bridge options that we can still work with.

I'd also say I disagree with the notion we need day one starters. The model seems pretty set now. We are going to lose 3-6 capable starters pretty much every year. Meaning we need a next man up already stewing on the roster. We have already been pre drafting for future need. We'll need to add guys this year for those we expect to walk in 2017. So by this time next year we have guys that are more comfortable with the systems in place.

In order to maintain that, you need to stick with the model and keep loading up on players who play later rather than fewer that play sooner.

This team is very much like a modified college program. These rookies are generally just like freshmen. Who need to replace guys in the future when they leave. Add the higher degree of training and skill required and it's even harder to get day 1 contributors.
 

kearly

New member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
15,975
Reaction score
0
Regarding Sokoli, I'm fine with the theory and don't mind the gamble, but I've never expected anything out of him. To me, he is the Jameson Konz of the OL. Before he was drafted I watched his tape at DL and he looked like a guy that had just started playing football five minutes ago. There was no sharpness to his movements, nothing remotely instinctive about the guy in any way at all.

By contrast, JR Sweezy exhibited natural talent for movement skills right away, and this is probably why his own college coaching staff reached out to NFL teams to have JR Sweezy convert to guard. I think this is the primary reason why JR Sweezy was able to start in the NFL immediately whereas most other converts need years of seasoning first.

Athletic performance in spandex and athletic performance on the field are essentially two different skillsets. Sokoli had an extreme differential in those two things. Maybe Cable can coach him up, but it would be a bit like coaching up the Konz. Konz stuck around for a while, and did basically nothing, before Seattle gave up. I'm expecting the same from Sokoli for now.

poplarbluffman":16m9e8wm said:
best center in this draft is Whitehair along with being best guard..elite short times 4.58 and 7.53 and vision so should dominate 2nd level(where those long runs come from)

Whitehair feels like a very natural fit for Tom Cable and could probably play any spot other than LT. He's one of the guys I'm rooting for to make it to #56.
 

TeamoftheCentury

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 19, 2012
Messages
2,149
Reaction score
160
Location
Orlando, FL
Attyla the Hawk":3pmj9fpf said:
It's actually quite amazing how many of our day 3 picks are still around in this league. Most on other rosters.
...........

I suspect that if this roster was as barren as it was in 2011/12, Sokoli would have been pressed into duty similar to Sweezy. Sokoli was competing with Britt, who is still much better than Moffitt was in 2012. I just don't think this roster is bad enough that we are forced to play guys before they're more highly developed.

..........

This team is very much like a modified college program. These rookies are generally just like freshmen. Who need to replace guys in the future when they leave. Add the higher degree of training and skill required and it's even harder to get day 1 contributors.

Sorry for cutting up your reply, but just wanted to say it was excellent and wanted to point out a few particularly good comments.
 

Scottemojo

Active member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
14,663
Reaction score
1
Appreciate all the input, I must emphasize I couched everything with the word "if". For a reason, the Sokoli pick is a gamble.

THe reason I was stoked was Aaron Donald. If Sokoli works, it will be athleticism on athleticism. If it doesn't work, well, not a huge investment.

I might add, Pete is very high on this guy. They protected him on the 53 even though he was nowhere near ready. He never hit the PS, and that says something.
 

kearly

New member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
15,975
Reaction score
0
Scottemojo":2wy3l30x said:
I might add, Pete is very high on this guy. They protected him on the 53 even though he was nowhere near ready. He never hit the PS, and that says something.

I think 99% of the reason for this is that Sokoli's package of physical traits is nearly unprecedented. He's not just some great athlete, he's one of the best spandex athletes of all time. I could see how it would be very difficult to give up on an athlete of such high caliber.
 
OP
OP
J

Jville

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
13,241
Reaction score
1,611
I wanted to circle back and remind everyone that they continue to look at 3 conversion projects for the center position. They are Drew Nowak, Will Pericak and C/G Kristjan Sokoli. This is year two in Seattle for all 3 of them.

Kona Schwenke is a former defensive linemen that they added last year for a look at left tackle. He is the one that had someone roll up on his leg and put him on IR. At the moment, Kona is probably the #3 left tackle.

So I would say that conversion projects continue to be a part of their development program.

By the way, there is also this note from yesterday ....................... [tweet]https://twitter.com/JaredStanger/status/720304932490842116[/tweet]
 

McGruff

New member
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Messages
5,260
Reaction score
0
Location
Elma, WA
Rob . . . I do think the broad jump needs to be converted to either inches or decimals for TEF to work accurately.

a guy who jumps 8'11" is only inch off of nine feet, but putting it in at 8.11 makes it barely over 8 feet.

It gets weirder over 9 feet where 9'1" appears to be 9.1 and 9'11" appears to be 9.11 . . . if I am reading it right.
 
Top