The "what I actually think will happen" mock draft v2

kearly

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I'm going to do things a little differently this time. Instead of posting a mock at the start, I'm going to just ramble through this "random thoughts" style with some predictions and observations.

  • Thanks to Rob's detective work, we know that since drafting John Moffitt in 2011, the Seahawks have had some ironclad rules about how they draft offensive lineman. These rules include requiring a 9' broad jump and overall aptitude in bench/broad/vert testing that corresponds roughly with a "TEF" score around 3.00 or better. Applying this standard to the 2016 draft class eliminates most of the options available.

    Less options is generally a bad thing, especially when some of the names to get taken off the list are among the best lineman in the draft. However, the good news about this reduction is that many of the best remaining OL are all guys that could easily fall into the middle of the 2nd round. Some of them may even reach the #56 pick.

    This tends to make me think that Seattle will get the best bang for their buck at OL in round two, or possibly even in round three.

  • Regarding the defensive line, Seattle has been linked to many 1st round defensive lineman, including some that don't even seem to fit Seattle's own preferences very well. This is in contrast to the offensive line where Seattle has made almost zero effort to create a smokescreen with first round OL options. Based on this evidence, it seems likely that Seattle's "plan A" is to draft a defensive lineman or pass rusher with their first pick, or at the very least, their top target is probably a defensive lineman or pass rusher.

    Pete Carroll has also made comments a few months ago about wanting a pass rusher in the draft, and most pundits seem to agree that if you want to draft a pass rusher this year, you have to grab one early.

  • Combine the information from bullet points one and two, and my best guess is that Seattle will probably go for D-line in round 1 and O-line in round 2 or possibly round 3.

  • John Schneider has said that the 'draftable' pool of players this year is the largest since 2010, and that the talent 'shelf' dropoffs this year are less dramatic. Given the lack of athleticism in this draft this statement is very surprising, but I don't see how lying about it would benefit Seattle, so I tend to believe John Schneider is telling the truth. And if it is true, then it creates incentive for Seattle to focus on quantity over quality with their draft picks. In other words, to trade down.

    Already there are stories about teams in the late 1st and early 2nd looking to move up, and John Schneider recently said that the Seahawks are currently in talks with teams about possible moves that could be made on draft day.

    Seattle currently has 9 picks which is very close to PC/JS's average in Seattle. Seattle doesn't "need" to trade down like they have in some other years, but just as a rule of thumb, teams that have a lot of options on their draft boards tend to favor trading down.

  • Seattle is really good at going off the grid and surprising even the most dedicated prognosticators. They say that they ignore any draft board other than their own and they mean it. I'm expecting a lot of surprising picks this year, there might even be some picks that don't seem "Seahawky."

With regards to Seattle's first round pick:

  • I think there are roughly 15 players Seattle could pick at #26 and it wouldn't surprise me. And since they always find a way to surprise us with their first pick, the real list is probably something like 20 players.

    However, out of all those players, the one that checks the most "Seahawky" boxes is Louisiana Tech DT Vernon Butler. I'm lukewarm on the guy personally, but as I've explained before I think he's going to be the guy for Seattle as the Seahawks look for rare traits and certain qualities. If Vernon Butler is gone, then I think Seattle's 2nd option will probably be to trade down and then look for Jonathan Bullard. Andrew Billings is not as "Seahawky" but is also worth keeping an eye on due to his extremely physical style of play (JS said he wants Seattle to be the bully again.)

    There are so many viable DL picks that Seattle will probably be very tempted to move down from #26 unless one of those players is rated way ahead of all the others.

  • An OL pick is possible at #26, but I think this only happens if the board breaks very poorly for Seattle on the DL. Or, it could happen if Seattle has a very high grade on one of the OL, such as Jason Spriggs. But I think if this were true, we would have seen more of an effort to smokescreen their interest.

    If Seattle trades down into the 2nd round, then it could change the equation depending on how many pass rushers remain.

  • I have a hunch that one of Ifedi or Whitehair could make it to #56. Both have a lot of appeal to Seattle, but are seemingly regarded with less zeal around the rest of the league. If both are gone, Seattle could consider many other options, including La'Raven Clark and Joe Dahl. Seattle surprised us all with mega-reach Justin Britt at this spot two years ago, so it's possible they could reach again with someone like Connor McGovern or Brandon Shell. I'm personally rooting for Shon Coleman here, but Seattle's past history shows they are very careful about players with bad medicals. And the one time they rolled the dice on bad medicals (Jesse Williams) it blew up in their face. They also had a bad experience with Garrett Scott when they found that he had a heart condition after drafting him.

  • RB is a sneaky need for Seattle so it wouldn't shock me if they drafted one in round two or three. I'm not expecting Henry at #26 unless they have an absurdly high grade on him.

Overall, I think the draft will probably start something like this:

1st. Vernon Butler if he is there. If Seattle trades down, Jonathan Bullard. Wildcard DL pick: Kevin Dodd or Noah Spence. Wildcard OL picks: Jason Spriggs, Germain Ifedi, Cody Whitehair, or Ryan Kelly.

2nd. Germain Ifedi or Cody Whitehair if they are available. Otherwise, La'Raven Clark or Joe Dahl could be considered strongly.

3rd. Probably a running back here. Tony Pauline recently reported that Tyler Ervin is rising up draft boards and could very well end up as a day two pick.

3rd again. At this point I think Seattle goes BPA for the rest of the draft. Which at this pick, probably means selecting a defensive lineman who can stuff the run. There's a few options, but Javon Hargrave bears the strongest resemblance to Brandon Mebane as a player, so I think he'd be favored here.

Overall, my best guess would be that the first four picks start off something like this:

1. Vernon Butler (alt. Jonathan Bullard, Andrew Billings)
2. Germain Ifedi (alt. La'Raven Clark, Cody Whitehair)
3. Tyler Ervin
3. Javon Hargrave

That said, the draft board this year is very broad and this estimate assumes ideal circumstances. There's a million ways this draft could break, which is why I wanted to put the thought process in context before sharing the mini-mock.
 

HawkGA

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I would like Seattle to come out of their first 4 picks with 3 offensive linemen but I realize that might be a bit much to ask. If they don't come out with 2, though, I'll be quite disappointed.
 

McGruff

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HawkGA":25z79651 said:
I would like Seattle to come out of their first 4 picks with 3 offensive linemen but I realize that might be a bit much to ask. If they don't come out with 2, though, I'll be quite disappointed.

You'd hate mine.

1. DE Emmanuel Ogbah
2. DT Hassan Ridgeway
3. S Justin Simmons
3. WR Charone Peake

I can see Kearly's scenario happening as well. I don't like Butler, and much prefer Bullard, but I guess I can see it IF they are projecting that he can develop some pass rush skills.

Ifedi would be a steal in the second. I'm a fan. In fact, this is one of those m9cks where if Kearly had switched 1 and 2 I'd be happy.

Love Hargrave. Not a big Ervin fan but I can see what Seattle would like. Game breaking speed.
 

j hawk

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I'll throw my hat into the ring.

rd 1 Butler
rd 2 McGovern
rd 3 Ervin
rd 3 Dahl
 

penihawk

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I'm wondering what people see in Ifedi other than measurables? I don't ever see him ever being a NFL tackle and a mediocre guard. He is at the top of my list of players I hope we don't draft.
 
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kearly

kearly

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penihawk":3fe8m5ep said:
I'm wondering what people see in Ifedi other than measurables? I don't ever see him ever being a NFL tackle and a mediocre guard. He is at the top of my list of players I hope we don't draft.

Unfortunately what we think doesn't matter, it's all about what the Seahawks want. They like offensive lineman with long arms, excellent movement skills, nastiness and power. They are okay with a player having drawbacks if he has the qualities they seek.
 

Hasselbeck

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kearly":13fyfri2 said:
seabowl":13fyfri2 said:

FWIW, I don't like the way the 2016 draft is shaping up either.

I think Ryan Kelly is this years Joel Bitonio. We're going to have the chance to grab him, we won't do it.. and Kelly will become a top flight center.
 

Thepeelsessions

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Hasselbeck":iu7vvyei said:
kearly":iu7vvyei said:
seabowl":iu7vvyei said:

FWIW, I don't like the way the 2016 draft is shaping up either.

I think Ryan Kelly is this years Joel Bitonio. We're going to have the chance to grab him, we won't do it.. and Kelly will become a top flight center.

Oh God, you just had to mention Bitonio. I'm still upset Pete and John passed on him. He was the one guy I was hoping would be there at 32. Instead, we traded down for Richardson and had to settle on Britt for the o-line. Bad. Just bad.
 

titan3131

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kearly":2jnqt6cv said:
penihawk":2jnqt6cv said:
I'm wondering what people see in Ifedi other than measurables? I don't ever see him ever being a NFL tackle and a mediocre guard. He is at the top of my list of players I hope we don't draft.

Unfortunately what we think doesn't matter, it's all about what the Seahawks want. They like offensive lineman with long arms, excellent movement skills, nastiness and power. They are okay with a player having drawbacks if he has the qualities they seek.

Yes they will accept drawbacks, but I really think that there is a increased focus on becoming the bully again.

Carp had glaring weaknesses but he was physical and could push anyone around. Ifedi just screams soft to my amateur view. Literally seems like the epitome of looks like Tarzan play like Jane. I even saw a scout said he thinks ifedi will be out of the league in 3 years... I just can't get behind him, Rob is infatuated with him but he has even said he loves Coleman. I love the fire shon Coleman plays with and want him so bad, we need that breno nasty back.
 

bjornanderson21

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HawkGA":1ba1nbqd said:
I would like Seattle to come out of their first 4 picks with 3 offensive linemen but I realize that might be a bit much to ask. If they don't come out with 2, though, I'll be quite disappointed.
An OL doesn't need to be a stud to become a starter on our line.

As long as they aren't drafting 7th rounders in the 4th round we could still improve our line quite a bit with some 4th and 5th round linemen.

If we walk out with 1 rookie starter UPGRADE and legitimately upgrade our depth at 1 or 2 spots then that is a success. They will probably need to draft another OL early in 2017 though.
 

McGruff

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Ifedi isn't soft. He's actually pretty tenacious. He's just got some serious technical flaws.
 

Seafan

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kearly":2iv6vvc4 said:
seabowl":2iv6vvc4 said:

FWIW, I don't like the way the 2016 draft is shaping up either.

Agreed.

Based on that 200 number that Schneider mentioned IMO this is simply a draft that is fat in the middle.

It seems to be weak in the 1st round, Weaker than last year where most analysts said only had 15 viable 1st round grades.

That doesn't mean the Hawks will trade out but trading down to gain more picks in rounds 3-4 would make some sense.

It wouldn't surprise me to see the Hawks and Browns in a trade.

Something we should think about is how many draftees do the Hawks feel have a chance at making the roster. If they don't believe it is many then they might be willing to trade up. Also, if there is a player like Lockett they feel they can't live without they may also trade up.

You have to wonder if the acquisitions of Clemons and Browner may change some things for the Hawks.

This seems to be a weak WR draft, especially compared to the last three. That may have been one factor in their giving Kearse a starter's contract. Some people would like to see the Hawks take a WR early but that seems doubtful.

Do the Hawks feel they have any needs? The fans tend to believe OL is a need. The Hawks may not think so.

I think the Hawks go DL early. I like Hargrave but some feel he may sneak into the first round.

The Hawks may ignore the OL until the 3rd round or later.

IMO the Hawks need to get a DT, OT, and a LB. A DE would be nice but the best will be gone early.

My best guess is:

Butler
Fackrell
Clark
McGovern
 

xgeoff

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penihawk":10uovce9 said:
I'm wondering what people see in Ifedi other than measurables? I don't ever see him ever being a NFL tackle and a mediocre guard. He is at the top of my list of players I hope we don't draft.

Same here! I loved the guys measurables, then I looked at his game tape and did not like what I saw at all...
 
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kearly

kearly

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titan3131":2gm5l5lq said:
Yes they will accept drawbacks, but I really think that there is a increased focus on becoming the bully again.

Carp had glaring weaknesses but he was physical and could push anyone around. Ifedi just screams soft to my amateur view. Literally seems like the epitome of looks like Tarzan play like Jane. I even saw a scout said he thinks ifedi will be out of the league in 3 years... I just can't get behind him, Rob is infatuated with him but he has even said he loves Coleman. I love the fire shon Coleman plays with and want him so bad, we need that breno nasty back.

I haven't watched a ton of Ifedi, but the two games I watched of him, he was kicking butt all over the field. Really nasty player. The guy NFL.com compares him to, Billy Turner, was also a vicious ass-kicker in the run game. Ifedi has some bad habits in pass pro (he's a bit of a leaner), otherwise he'd probably be a 1st round lock.

I find myself rooting for Cody Whitehair more and more. Versatile player with a really high ceiling. He could be like Breno at RT, Sweezy at RG, or in a best case, he could be like Zack Martin at center. He plays with a lot of fire and has a lot of untapped upside. And he also has that elusive 9' broad jump.
 
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kearly

kearly

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Hasselbeck":34dvalao said:
kearly":34dvalao said:
seabowl":34dvalao said:

FWIW, I don't like the way the 2016 draft is shaping up either.

I think Ryan Kelly is this years Joel Bitonio. We're going to have the chance to grab him, we won't do it.. and Kelly will become a top flight center.

Turns out Bitonio didn't have a 9' Broad jump. It's possible he wasn't on their board at all.

Kelly doesn't have a 9' broad jump either.
 

kf3339

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I put together an entire mock with trades and analysis, but for whatever reason the site made me log in again and when I did it was all lost.

So instead of doing it again this late I will just post the picks and trades.....

2nd round, Pick 32 - (trade with The Browns and gain pick 100)

Germain Efedi - OT

2nd round, pick 51 - (trade with Jets for our 2017 1st round pick)

Andrew Billings - DT

2nd round, pick 56

Nick Martin - C

3rd round, pick 70 - (trade with Baltimore for pick 90, pick 225 and our 2017 4th round)

Javone Hargrave - DT

3rd round, pick 97

Conner McGovern - OG

4th round, pick 100

Nick Vannett - TE

5th round, pick 160 - (trade with Minnesota for pick 171 and 2016 pick 247)

Travis Feeney - LB

6th round, pick 215

BPA - could be a RB, Dl convert to the O-Line, CB/S, or even a QB. But more than likely a practice squad or official roster inactive.

Well, I had analysis for each pick and why my trades made sense, but it was all lost and too tired to redo. So this is it.

I know it's not realistic, but really who cares.
 

seabowl

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kearly":2iindfru said:
titan3131":2iindfru said:
Yes they will accept drawbacks, but I really think that there is a increased focus on becoming the bully again.

Carp had glaring weaknesses but he was physical and could push anyone around. Ifedi just screams soft to my amateur view. Literally seems like the epitome of looks like Tarzan play like Jane. I even saw a scout said he thinks ifedi will be out of the league in 3 years... I just can't get behind him, Rob is infatuated with him but he has even said he loves Coleman. I love the fire shon Coleman plays with and want him so bad, we need that breno nasty back.

I haven't watched a ton of Ifedi, but the two games I watched of him, he was kicking butt all over the field. Really nasty player. The guy NFL.com compares him to, Billy Turner, was also a vicious ass-kicker in the run game. Ifedi has some bad habits in pass pro (he's a bit of a leaner), otherwise he'd probably be a 1st round lock.

I find myself rooting for Cody Whitehair more and more. Versatile player with a really high ceiling. He could be like Breno at RT, Sweezy at RG, or in a best case, he could be like Zack Martin at center. He plays with a lot of fire and has a lot of untapped upside. And he also has that elusive 9' broad jump.

IMO Ifedi reminds me a lot of Ray Roberts. Really big but just not the complete player that I'd want to take with a high pick. Yep Ray Roberts 2.0.
 

Largent80

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I started a Mebane thread earlier and I see them needing to get a young player in there to try and replace him. One that will be around a few years and to me Bullard is that guy.

Pete is a defensive coach so wouldn't be surprised if D are the first 2 picks (depending on who is there) or, if they trade back. I watched Ifedi play a bunch and he is going to be a SOLID guard.
 
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