Apple Cup Thread

Discuss your thoughts about anything draft related. Mocks, College and Pro. Knock yourselves out!!! LANGUAGE RATING: PG-13
Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:03 am
  • getnasty wrote:WSU can't game plan for that kind of game, what are they gonna do line up and pound the ball? They're built to throw the ball with timing and precision just hard to do that in a blizzard. People calling Leach overrated are crazy when you have a school like WSU in Pullman in the top 25 that's an amazing accomplishment. The caliber of athlete he's getting compared to UW isn't even close.


    Leach has done a good job. "Amazing" would've been a Rose bowl or better. His teams are not that far behind the rest of the Pac 12 in talent. Leach gets a lot of credit for his amazing job.

    I guess my statement/question is whether he's doing THAT good of a job.

    Probably too soon to answer, so soon after the game.
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:55 am
  • getnasty wrote:WSU can't game plan for that kind of game, what are they gonna do line up and pound the ball? They're built to throw the ball with timing and precision just hard to do that in a blizzard. People calling Leach overrated are crazy when you have a school like WSU in Pullman in the top 25 that's an amazing accomplishment. The caliber of athlete he's getting compared to UW isn't even close.



    The snow hurt both sides but the ending would have been the same. Rush 3 play 8 in coverage keep everything in front to eliminate yac. Pound the ball. Its what they do.

    Almost every QB says its easier passing in the snow. We have to take their word for it they have done it at a high level. It looked sloppy tho.
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:19 am
  • To me the difference was the secondary's ability to tackle. Washington's DBs simply did a better job of tackling in space than Wazzu's. Both QBs were mainly throwing short passes, especially in the second half, but Washington still averaged 19.1 yards per catch while Wazzu averaged only 5.8.
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:35 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    getnasty wrote:WSU can't game plan for that kind of game, what are they gonna do line up and pound the ball? They're built to throw the ball with timing and precision just hard to do that in a blizzard. People calling Leach overrated are crazy when you have a school like WSU in Pullman in the top 25 that's an amazing accomplishment. The caliber of athlete he's getting compared to UW isn't even close.


    Leach has done a good job. "Amazing" would've been a Rose bowl or better. His teams are not that far behind the rest of the Pac 12 in talent. Leach gets a lot of credit for his amazing job.

    I guess my statement/question is whether he's doing THAT good of a job.

    Probably too soon to answer, so soon after the game.


    WSU was ranked in the top 10 going into the game if that's not amazing then only Nick Saben and Dabo Sweeny are great coaches. WSU had 31 commits last year and only 2 were 4 star guys, UW had 20 commits last year and 10 were 4 star guys. They might not be far behind Utah and ASU but there a big gap with the top of the Pac 12. WSU hasn't won 10 games in 15 years and I don't know if they've ever won 11, I'd say he's done am amazing job.
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:38 am
  • justafan wrote:
    getnasty wrote:WSU can't game plan for that kind of game, what are they gonna do line up and pound the ball? They're built to throw the ball with timing and precision just hard to do that in a blizzard. People calling Leach overrated are crazy when you have a school like WSU in Pullman in the top 25 that's an amazing accomplishment. The caliber of athlete he's getting compared to UW isn't even close.



    The snow hurt both sides but the ending would have been the same. Rush 3 play 8 in coverage keep everything in front to eliminate yac. Pound the ball. Its what they do.

    Almost every QB says its easier passing in the snow. We have to take their word for it they have done it at a high level. It looked sloppy tho.


    The snow didn't hurt UW, the bigger more physical team is always gonna have an advantage in snow, I'm not saying that WSU would have won but it was definitely a big advantage.
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:42 am
  • SeatownJay wrote:To me the difference was the secondary's ability to tackle. Washington's DBs simply did a better job of tackling in space than Wazzu's. Both QBs were mainly throwing short passes, especially in the second half, but Washington still averaged 19.1 yards per catch while Wazzu averaged only 5.8.


    You are right about the tackling.
    Browning made some great throws for long gains before it started getting crappy.. If it wouldnt have started snowing I think he would have lit them up all night.
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:45 am
  • getnasty wrote:
    justafan wrote:
    getnasty wrote:WSU can't game plan for that kind of game, what are they gonna do line up and pound the ball? They're built to throw the ball with timing and precision just hard to do that in a blizzard. People calling Leach overrated are crazy when you have a school like WSU in Pullman in the top 25 that's an amazing accomplishment. The caliber of athlete he's getting compared to UW isn't even close.



    The snow hurt both sides but the ending would have been the same. Rush 3 play 8 in coverage keep everything in front to eliminate yac. Pound the ball. Its what they do.

    Almost every QB says its easier passing in the snow. We have to take their word for it they have done it at a high level. It looked sloppy tho.


    The snow didn't hurt UW, the bigger more physical team is always gonna have an advantage in snow, I'm not saying that WSU would have won but it was definitely a big advantage.


    It hurt both teams in my opinion.Browning made a few plays for huge chunks of yardage before the field got bad.
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:45 pm
  • getnasty wrote:WSU can't game plan for that kind of game, what are they gonna do line up and pound the ball? They're built to throw the ball with timing and precision just hard to do that in a blizzard. People calling Leach overrated are crazy when you have a school like WSU in Pullman in the top 25 that's an amazing accomplishment. The caliber of athlete he's getting compared to UW isn't even close.


    WSU is located in Pullman. It snows there this time of year. If their offense isn't capable of functioning in the snow, that's a huge failure on the part of the coaching staff.

    Pretty sure UW shut down the Cougs offense the last 4 years in a row anyway.
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:51 pm
  • getnasty wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    getnasty wrote:WSU can't game plan for that kind of game, what are they gonna do line up and pound the ball? They're built to throw the ball with timing and precision just hard to do that in a blizzard. People calling Leach overrated are crazy when you have a school like WSU in Pullman in the top 25 that's an amazing accomplishment. The caliber of athlete he's getting compared to UW isn't even close.


    Leach has done a good job. "Amazing" would've been a Rose bowl or better. His teams are not that far behind the rest of the Pac 12 in talent. Leach gets a lot of credit for his amazing job.

    I guess my statement/question is whether he's doing THAT good of a job.

    Probably too soon to answer, so soon after the game.


    WSU was ranked in the top 10 going into the game if that's not amazing then only Nick Saben and Dabo Sweeny are great coaches. WSU had 31 commits last year and only 2 were 4 star guys, UW had 20 commits last year and 10 were 4 star guys. They might not be far behind Utah and ASU but there a big gap with the top of the Pac 12. WSU hasn't won 10 games in 15 years and I don't know if they've ever won 11, I'd say he's done am amazing job.


    why, because he got 10 wins, once again got blown out in the Apple Cup?

    They have been at 8 and 9 wins the last 3 years, 10 this year only to lose to UW. They've lost the last two bowl games on top of it.

    He won 3, 6 and 3 wins before getting the team to this new found run of form. That's a good job. But he's getting credit, imo, for wins he hasnt got. He's 1-4 in bowl games, and 1-6 in Apple Cups.

    I dont know how its amazing. but maybe that's what passes for it at WSU. Which is fine. I was surprised how much credit he was being given from the national media coming into the game.
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:47 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    getnasty wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    getnasty wrote:WSU can't game plan for that kind of game, what are they gonna do line up and pound the ball? They're built to throw the ball with timing and precision just hard to do that in a blizzard. People calling Leach overrated are crazy when you have a school like WSU in Pullman in the top 25 that's an amazing accomplishment. The caliber of athlete he's getting compared to UW isn't even close.


    Leach has done a good job. "Amazing" would've been a Rose bowl or better. His teams are not that far behind the rest of the Pac 12 in talent. Leach gets a lot of credit for his amazing job.

    I guess my statement/question is whether he's doing THAT good of a job.

    Probably too soon to answer, so soon after the game.


    WSU was ranked in the top 10 going into the game if that's not amazing then only Nick Saben and Dabo Sweeny are great coaches. WSU had 31 commits last year and only 2 were 4 star guys, UW had 20 commits last year and 10 were 4 star guys. They might not be far behind Utah and ASU but there a big gap with the top of the Pac 12. WSU hasn't won 10 games in 15 years and I don't know if they've ever won 11, I'd say he's done am amazing job.


    why, because he got 10 wins, once again got blown out in the Apple Cup?

    They have been at 8 and 9 wins the last 3 years, 10 this year only to lose to UW. They've lost the last two bowl games on top of it.

    He won 3, 6 and 3 wins before getting the team to this new found run of form. That's a good job. But he's getting credit, imo, for wins he hasnt got. He's 1-4 in bowl games, and 1-6 in Apple Cups.

    I dont know how its amazing. but maybe that's what passes for it at WSU. Which is fine. I was surprised how much credit he was being given from the national media coming into the game.



    College football isnt a level playing field and never will be. What is amazing at one school will get you fired in the SEC.

    Im impressed by what he has done this year. He is beating teams he has no business beating. What if Nike gave them all those millions or he had the players USC has. Not many coaches could succeed in that situation.
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:24 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    getnasty wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    getnasty wrote:WSU can't game plan for that kind of game, what are they gonna do line up and pound the ball? They're built to throw the ball with timing and precision just hard to do that in a blizzard. People calling Leach overrated are crazy when you have a school like WSU in Pullman in the top 25 that's an amazing accomplishment. The caliber of athlete he's getting compared to UW isn't even close.


    Leach has done a good job. "Amazing" would've been a Rose bowl or better. His teams are not that far behind the rest of the Pac 12 in talent. Leach gets a lot of credit for his amazing job.

    I guess my statement/question is whether he's doing THAT good of a job.

    Probably too soon to answer, so soon after the game.


    WSU was ranked in the top 10 going into the game if that's not amazing then only Nick Saben and Dabo Sweeny are great coaches. WSU had 31 commits last year and only 2 were 4 star guys, UW had 20 commits last year and 10 were 4 star guys. They might not be far behind Utah and ASU but there a big gap with the top of the Pac 12. WSU hasn't won 10 games in 15 years and I don't know if they've ever won 11, I'd say he's done am amazing job.


    why, because he got 10 wins, once again got blown out in the Apple Cup?

    They have been at 8 and 9 wins the last 3 years, 10 this year only to lose to UW. They've lost the last two bowl games on top of it.

    He won 3, 6 and 3 wins before getting the team to this new found run of form. That's a good job. But he's getting credit, imo, for wins he hasnt got. He's 1-4 in bowl games, and 1-6 in Apple Cups.

    I dont know how its amazing. but maybe that's what passes for it at WSU. Which is fine. I was surprised how much credit he was being given from the national media coming into the game.


    Who outside of Saben and Sweeny are amazing then, please I'd love to hear.
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:18 pm
  • getnasty wrote:
    justafan wrote:
    getnasty wrote:WSU can't game plan for that kind of game, what are they gonna do line up and pound the ball? They're built to throw the ball with timing and precision just hard to do that in a blizzard. People calling Leach overrated are crazy when you have a school like WSU in Pullman in the top 25 that's an amazing accomplishment. The caliber of athlete he's getting compared to UW isn't even close.



    The snow hurt both sides but the ending would have been the same. Rush 3 play 8 in coverage keep everything in front to eliminate yac. Pound the ball. Its what they do.

    Almost every QB says its easier passing in the snow. We have to take their word for it they have done it at a high level. It looked sloppy tho.


    The snow didn't hurt UW, the bigger more physical team is always gonna have an advantage in snow, I'm not saying that WSU would have won but it was definitely a big advantage.


    This isn't arena football and it wouldn't have mattered anyway, Jimmy Lake and Co. have Leach's offense figured out.
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:36 pm
  • One good, not great, year does not make a coach “amazing.”

    Leach has zero conference titles. He has zero Top 10 finishes. He has a losing record in bowl games. His defenses are always bad. He doesn’t understand the run game.

    He is barely a “good” coach, much less great or amazing. And he’s a narcissistic douche.
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:43 pm
  • The Cougs have nothing to be ashamed about, they finish the regular season 10-2 and ranked. This was a team who faced a terrible tragedy when their starting QB committed suicide in the off season and was predicted to be at the bottom of the conference by every sport's reporting publication.

    As for the Apple Cup, I wrote earlier in the week that UDub is a team that will always be difficult, if not impossible, to be beat by teams like WSU. Strong fundamentals, a balanced running/passing game, and elite DB's will be difficult to game plan for a team that relies on a one-dimensional offense.

    As for Leach, he is a realist, he isn't going to get the recruits necessary to compete head-up with the UW's, USC's, Oregons, not to mention the rest of the diluted Pac-12 so he utilizes/designs an offense he has developed through the years to simply outscore the opponent. And, it works more often than not. I still think he's coach of the year.

    Minshew also, what a fabulous season, last night's conditions and the fact that he hasn't faced a defense like UDub's left him emotionally spent but that's football. Dude left all out on the field and I hope he is sitting among the select few at the Heisman Trophy Selection show.
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:48 pm
  • Conference Titles
    Chris Petersen: 6 (and counting)
    Leach: 0

    Top 10 National Finishes
    Chris Petersen: 5
    Leach: 0

    Top 15 National Finishes
    Chris Petersen: 8
    Leach: 1

    Coaching Record
    Chris Petersen: 138-32 (81%)
    Leach: 132–83 (61%)
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:51 pm
  • hawknation2018 wrote:Conference Titles
    Chris Petersen: 6 (and counting)
    Leach: 0

    Top 10 National Finishes
    Chris Petersen: 5
    Leach: 0

    Top 15 National Finishes
    Chris Petersen: 8
    Leach: 1

    Coaching Record
    Chris Petersen: 138-32 (81%)
    Leach: 132–83 (61%)


    Yeah, it's obvious that Coach Petersen is the better strong program coach but I think this is somewhat out-of-context. Leach still deserves credit for doing more with less
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:53 pm
  • DomeHawk wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:Conference Titles
    Chris Petersen: 6 (and counting)
    Leach: 0

    Top 10 National Finishes
    Chris Petersen: 5
    Leach: 0

    Top 15 National Finishes
    Chris Petersen: 8
    Leach: 1

    Coaching Record
    Chris Petersen: 138-32 (81%)
    Leach: 132–83 (61%)


    Yeah, it's obvious that Coach Petersen is the better strong program coach but I think this is somewhat out-of-context. Leach still deserves credit for doing more with less


    Doing what? He hasn’t done squat.

    Mike Price was a much better HC for WSU. At least he won a couple conference championships.
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:09 pm
  • hawknation2018 wrote:
    DomeHawk wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:Conference Titles
    Chris Petersen: 6 (and counting)
    Leach: 0

    Top 10 National Finishes
    Chris Petersen: 5
    Leach: 0

    Top 15 National Finishes
    Chris Petersen: 8
    Leach: 1

    Coaching Record
    Chris Petersen: 138-32 (81%)
    Leach: 132–83 (61%)


    Yeah, it's obvious that Coach Petersen is the better strong program coach but I think this is somewhat out-of-context. Leach still deserves credit for doing more with less


    Doing what? He hasn’t done squat.

    Mike Price was a much better HC for WSU. At least he won a couple conference championships.


    Mike Price was 83–78 at WSU and Like Leach is 48–40. That was a different era, Utah and Colorado hadn't joined the Pac yet further diluting an already diluted Pac-10 conference. WSU has the 57th ranked talent composite this year. It was also before Oregon started building facilities that made everyone else's look like a Tijuana slum. Schools followed suit with renovated facilities and stadiums. WSU was left with the 2nd smallest stadium in major college football and facilities to match. Most schools were also located in more favorable locales compared to the remote outpost of Pullman. There was even talk of WSU moving to a smaller conference. (Can't believe I am spending this much time defending the Cougs, lol.)

    https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Footb ... Composite/
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:13 pm
  • In addition to never having accomplished anything meaningful in 17 seasons as a HC, Leach acts like a disrespectful jackass, mistreats his players, propogates false conspiracy theories, and publicly throws his players under bus time and time again. He is the picture perfect definition of an overrated coach (and human being).
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:20 pm
  • hawknation2018 wrote:In addition to never having accomplished anything meaningful in 17 seasons as a HC, Leach acts like a disrespectful jackass, mistreats his players, propogates false conspiracy theories, and publicly throws his players under bus time and time again. He is the picture perfect definition of an overrated coach (and human being).


    Well, actually I am not aware of all those things you mention. I have just always thought of him as eccentric. I would be curious to see what his players think of him. If that is indeed true, it would change things for me.
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:31 pm

Apple Cup Recap
Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:34 pm

Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:42 pm

Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:43 pm

Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:53 pm

Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:30 pm
  • getnasty wrote:Who outside of Saben and Sweeny are amazing then, please I'd love to hear.


    Maybe not many. Which is why i was surprised at the attention he was getting the last two years.

    Look, not trying to shit on Leach. I just dont think he's done as much as many assume.. and maybe should be held to a little higher standard with his end of season struggles.
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:46 pm
  • The Coug's never had the defense needed to win against the Husky's . The Coug's are a spread offense team that when confronted with a complete football team the plays great defense and runs the ball with a quality QB is going to lose .That system will never win until they put out a defense that can stop big schools from running it down there throat. They played a weak out of conference schedule they never would have made the final 4. We'll see how there bowl game turns out if they have to play another big school with a great defense. No i'm not a Coug fan i loved watching Washington expose that defense.
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:06 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    getnasty wrote:Who outside of Saben and Sweeny are amazing then, please I'd love to hear.


    Maybe not many. Which is why i was surprised at the attention he was getting the last two years.

    Look, not trying to shit on Leach. I just dont think he's done as much as many assume.. and maybe should be held to a little higher standard with his end of season struggles.


    I understand what your saying with the late season struggles and he certainly has to figure out UW but just remember we are talking about Pullman Washington here. I'm not sure if you've ever been but to get a inner city kid to come there only happens because they don't have to many options. As a Coug we would love to challenge for Pac 12 titles ever year but realistically the talent gap is just to far to do so year in and year out. Leach at least has made up the difference in that gap the last few years and made them relevant.
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:17 am
  • hawknation2018 wrote:Conference Titles
    Chris Petersen: 6 (and counting)
    Leach: 0

    Top 10 National Finishes
    Chris Petersen: 5
    Leach: 0

    Top 15 National Finishes
    Chris Petersen: 8
    Leach: 1

    Coaching Record
    Chris Petersen: 138-32 (81%)
    Leach: 132–83 (61%)


    This is the problem your trying to compare them as if UW and WSU are on an even playing field. There not and it's not even close. How do you think would have more wins Peterson at Texas Tech or Leach at Boise State? I guarantee that Leach at Boise State because the Conference is so weak. I'm not taking anything away from Peterson he's a good coach to but to just throw stats out like that doesn't make sense. By that logic Luke Falk might be the best Pac 12 quarterback of all time.
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:29 am
  • Northwest Seahawk wrote:The Coug's never had the defense needed to win against the Husky's . The Coug's are a spread offense team that when confronted with a complete football team the plays great defense and runs the ball with a quality QB is going to lose .That system will never win until they put out a defense that can stop big schools from running it down there throat. They played a weak out of conference schedule they never would have made the final 4. We'll see how there bowl game turns out if they have to play another big school with a great defense. No i'm not a Coug fan i loved watching Washington expose that defense.


    When you play the style of play that WSU has your going to give up a ton of points that just come with the territory. Nobody was saying they were getting into the final 4. Not sure how the system doesn't work when there 10-2 with a loss to a way more talented USC team on a horrible call and a good UW team. UW didn't expose there defense, maybe the offense in the snow but not there defense.
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:10 pm
  • getnasty wrote:
    Northwest Seahawk wrote:The Coug's never had the defense needed to win against the Husky's . The Coug's are a spread offense team that when confronted with a complete football team the plays great defense and runs the ball with a quality QB is going to lose .That system will never win until they put out a defense that can stop big schools from running it down there throat. They played a weak out of conference schedule they never would have made the final 4. We'll see how there bowl game turns out if they have to play another big school with a great defense. No i'm not a Coug fan i loved watching Washington expose that defense.


    When you play the style of play that WSU has your going to give up a ton of points that just come with the territory. Nobody was saying they were getting into the final 4. Not sure how the system doesn't work when there 10-2 with a loss to a way more talented USC team on a horrible call and a good UW team. UW didn't expose there defense, maybe the offense in the snow but not there defense.


    You can talk to me about how good there system works when they win the pac 12 championship.
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Re: Apple Cup Thread
Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:30 am
  • Wasn't it 14 to 0 before the snow started?
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