If you were Clowney would you sit out?

Discuss your thoughts about anything draft related. Mocks, College and Pro. Knock yourselves out!!! RATING: PG-13
  • Pe, you raise a very interesting point, and one in which I heard a very spirited discussion on a national sports radio show when Lebron was a junior in high school. There was talk of him suing and skipping his senior year and going pro. Everybody called in saying he needed his education, it was stupid to do this, etc. Then one guy calls in and says, "Wait.... why do you think he needs an education?" The local espn radio "genius" says, "So that he can make a living!!!!" Then the guy says, "So... you think he needs to attend that last year of high school in order to make a living? Do you understand that if he went pro NOW he'd make more in his rookie contract guaranteed than the average American will make in their working life by an exponential amount?" The guys go, "Well.... what if he gets hurt?!!" The guy responds, "It's guaranteed money. He blows out his knee after the first practice, and guess what? He can go to college and get all of the training he needs, or just invest wisely and live comfortably for 100 lives. What's the difference?" They said, "What if he wasn't the first pick in the draft?!!!" He said, "Well, many teams have said they'd take him in the top 5. He'd be looking at the tens of millions guaranteed."

    Now, this is the kicker, and something that really made me think long and hard about why I always had the "get an education" viewpoint, and I realized that it was selfish. It is because I was an educator. I valued education. Hey.... students are my customers, right? I can't have them dropping out to go to work. But why do we go to school? To get a job. Why do we get a job? To do something to hopefully pay the bills and hopefully to help out somehow and feel good about ourselves. If you can do that without going to college, then why not?

    Then the bomb drops on these eggheads on the radio. The guy says, "So... you're against Lebron going pro?" They say, "Yes, he at least shouldn't try to skip his junior year. That is asinine. Who would ever do such a ludicrous thing? It shows you something about his parents and upbringing when his parents value education so little that they are considering fighting for his right to turn pro at 17 and skip his senior year of high school!"

    The guy says, "What do you think about Pete Sampras' parents? Did they do a good job of raising him?" The guys say, "Ummmm, I think they did a great job. Pete is a role model. A class act. He's always working with the youth, is friendly, is a great sportsman, is the best American to play and possibly the greatest ever. His parents obviously did a great job." The caller says, "Pete Sampras dropped out of high school at 15 to go pro and it was 100% with his parent's support. Why aren't you applying that same logic to Lebron's parents? Why are you making value judgements like this? Is it because of the sport they play, or is it because of their race, or what?" They quickly mutter some bullcrap and go to commercial.

    It was epic. Pete Sampras did the exact thing (only EARLIER) because he and his parents realized that he was going to be able to make a living earlier than most and he better hurry it up and there was no need to attend school. Brilliant retort by this guy.

    We saw Bryce Harper take the GED and enroll in a junior college that used wood bats to get to the majors quicker so he could prove his value and he did skip his senior year of high school and played college to be eligible for the draft. I didn't see a massive uproar over that. In fact, everybody talked about what a brilliant move it was.

    Clowney is in a different situation, but it is simply because the NFL has somehow gotten a right to restrict a person's opportunity to make a living while the getting is good. It's pathetic. Clowney is in a bad spot. Here people are saying, "I wouldn't want a guy like that on my team." Why not? Did you see what happened to Willis McGahee in college? It was disgusting. That kid at USC who dropped the weights on his neck. Former Seahawk Itula Mili nearly lost his leg because he had to play out that season and couldn't afford an insurance policy. His leg was literally held on by only skin. That's it. He was minutes away from losing everything from the knee down and possibly his life in the WAC Championship game. Why? Because the NFL has rules and college players get hurt. They are FORCED to wait a certain amount of time. Clowney can't go play in Europe for a year. He has done his service to his school and shown those who will pay his bills that he is prepared to work for them. If you got offered a great IT job while you were a sophomore in school and merely had to do nothing but wait until the following fall for the contract to be in place, would you continue to go to school for the fun of it? Maybe... I mean... it's just IT. But if it's your living, maybe you want to do something else. Go backpack across Europe. Have some fun. Enjoy life. Hang out at home. Start working on certifications and such and working at home as an independent contractor and stop paying to go to school as you've now achieved your goal.

    I think that once you've got the skills you need to work, then you're set and go to work. Clowney wouldn't look any worse to me if he sat out. I'd think that the kid is smart and doing what is best, and wants to be fully prepared to give 100% to those who pay him, rather than let a school cash in on him for another year. He's already proved he's the best player around. End of story. Why continue? To be a manly man? To risk injury? To make his coach look good? Those are all nifty things, but it's a cutthroat world. I just got fired from a job for vomiting too much. I say I'd do anything to make sure I was ready to work and I'd say "screw off" to anybody who felt I was making a mistake for sitting a year. There are no minor leagues. He can NOT do what Bryce Harper did, and he can't do what Lebron almost did (and the NBA has changed rules anyway, so now guys go and play one year and don't even attend class, and drop out before spring finals, what a joke).

    He's ready to work. He's gotten all necessary training and skills to do the work at the top levels. Why risk it for somebody else? There are always reasons to do it. I see that. But I see the reasons to say, "Nah... I'm good. You don't have a farm system. So I'll just wait until you're ready to pay me." If a team is dumb enough to pass on him then terrific. Somebody else will get a bargain and he'll get paid way more in one season than most of us make in our lives.
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  • Play, I can't believe that this idea or topic is actually gaining ground. Really hope this doesn't become a trend for any potential high draft pick.
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  • Blitzer88 wrote:Play, I can't believe that this idea or topic is actually gaining ground. Really hope this doesn't become a trend for any potential high draft pick.


    Well, its gaining traction because some people have empathy, ie place themselves in another persons shoes. I don't believe for a minute if someone said "hey, if you don't play for SC, you get a guarenteed 15M. Play, and you may not", anyone wouldn't chose the first option.

    Blitzer, you'd take the first option. Its insane and dishonest to say otherwise. Even if you would choose option B, which you wouldn't, I don't enjoy telling others when or how to earn their living.

    Its just a messed up policy.
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  • Possibly. It would depend - does he enjoy college? Does he need money now for a particular reason (could get an advance from an agent)? How much is he worried about injury vs mastering his craft?

    If Clowney is only doing the school for football, has a family member with medical issues that require serious coin, and recognizes that his incredible talent would be worth so much more with great technique... Well, then it might be the smart decision for him. I don't think it's the smart move for most players, playing football is good for draft stock in most cases. But for some? Yeah.

    CP - What commitment? Coaches can, and do, pull scholarships every year. The NCAA (and schools) make a fortune off these kids, which may be a fair trade for some kids, but is patently unfair for someone like Clowney who is worth several times his scholarship and can't even sign autographs for money. If he ever owed them jack, he repaid it by his Freshman year.
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  • Dude's a beast.

    Screw his safety, he should sit out for the safety of others.

    (But my serious answer is like Kearly said, get an insurance policy on himself and play.)
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  • Yet people have no issue with guys like Brian Kelly flat out lying "I'm staying in Cinci forever!!!! blah blah blah!!!" He didn't even stick around for their bowl game did he? Said the same stuff about Notre Dame, and then went ahead and interviewed with an NFL team this year. The coaches are such pieces of work, that I don't blame one college athlete for leaving or even sitting. Look out for #1. I guarantee your coach would.
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  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    pehawk wrote:But don't believe any of you would be so easy with the decision, that's BS.


    Why? Andrew Luck had no qualms about getting on with it. Clowney is less of a sure thing to go first overall than Luck was. If Luck is prepared to get on with the job and be easy with the decision, why wouldn't anyone else be?


    Andrew Luck comes from a family that is wealthy enough that he'd likely live a very comfortable life had he never collected a single paycheck from the Colts.

    I don't know the specifics of Clowney's family situation, but he's from an area of South Carolina where the median household income is only $37k and his first signing bonus immediately changes the future of his entire family.

    Clowney is having to gamble a hell of a lot more than Andrew Luck could ever have comprehended.
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  • Luck's dad is the AD at West Virginia and was a professional athlete collecting a hefty pension. Plus Luck went to Stanford on top of that. Comparing the two situations is ludicrous.
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  • English, Luck was also pre-med, and exceling academically. Please, really?
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  • That would be dumb as hell to sit out next year, if this guy is a competitor like me and loves football, he will play. I would not want a selfish guy that sat out not to get hurt on my team
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  • Selfish? Seriously? How does the NCAA and their coaches treat these kids? Who is selfish. Do you know how much money Alabama made off of football last year? How about even bad programs like my own BYU Cougars. In the tens of millions minimum. The players? They are minor leaguers who are controlled by a college because of a stupid NFL rule that prevents them from making a living until they reach a certain age. It doesn't happen in other professions. Hell, Doogie Howser was a doctor when he was like 12.
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  • SharkHawk wrote:Selfish? Seriously? How does the NCAA and their coaches treat these kids? Who is selfish. Do you know how much money Alabama made off of football last year? How about even bad programs like my own BYU Cougars. In the tens of millions minimum. The players? They are minor leaguers who are controlled by a college because of a stupid NFL rule that prevents them from making a living until they reach a certain age. It doesn't happen in other professions. Hell, Doogie Howser was a doctor when he was like 12.


    I am incredibly thankful for that rule. The one and done rule that the NBA has, has ruined college basketball. I'm very, very thankful that the NFL has a 3 years out of high school before you can be eligible for the draft rule. I wish it was 4 years.
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  • SharkHawk wrote:Luck's dad is the AD at West Virginia and was a professional athlete collecting a hefty pension. Plus Luck went to Stanford on top of that. Comparing the two situations is ludicrous.


    How is it ludicrous? It's not like you've listed Clowney's background. The only ludicrous thing is your assumption he and his family are poor and desperate for cash that their situations would be different. Luck risked serious injury playing at Stanford, the same as Clowney would do if he takes the field.

    Classy response by way.
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  • JSeahawks wrote:
    SharkHawk wrote:Selfish? Seriously? How does the NCAA and their coaches treat these kids? Who is selfish. Do you know how much money Alabama made off of football last year? How about even bad programs like my own BYU Cougars. In the tens of millions minimum. The players? They are minor leaguers who are controlled by a college because of a stupid NFL rule that prevents them from making a living until they reach a certain age. It doesn't happen in other professions. Hell, Doogie Howser was a doctor when he was like 12.


    I am incredibly thankful for that rule. The one and done rule that the NBA has, has ruined college basketball. I'm very, very thankful that the NFL has a 3 years out of high school before you can be eligible for the draft rule. I wish it was 4 years.


    You're thankful. But what if you were Itula Mili's father. Would you have been thankful as the ambulance removed your son from the field and told you by phone (because you couldn't even afford to travel to one of his games ever) that he might lose his leg, and that insurance policy you couldn't come up with $4000 for could have offset his loss in future earnings?

    It's great for the fan. I'm talking about the employee. The "working man" here. Yes, NFL players make a ridiculous amount and so on. But they have one shot. One injury and that's it.

    The NBA's "one and done" rule has actually made it better for fans, because at least the majority of these kids enroll in school and your school can have a great run one year if they recruit the right kids in a group. Even my mighty Cougs were national championship bound with Jimmer because he stuck around, up until Brandon Davies got excused from school during the NCAA tourney. It has created a system where players are at least typically giving it a year.

    The problem with the NCAA is that they are bowing down to the leagues and giving them what they want. Are the leagues paying for their sport? No. The coaches are making millions, the AD's are making tons of money, the schools are making money hand over fist, but the kids are stuck in what is a "contract" that doesn't have to be honored by one side. Coaches like Bobby Petrino and Lane Kiffin have been notorious for over-recruiting, yanking scholarships, and kids have to "sit for a year" before playing.

    Clowney could reasonably transfer elsewhere and have to sit out this year, and then go pro, right? Why not do it. Then he doesn't look as bad, and it really shows what a joke the NCAA system is. It makes a mockery of their own rule. They lose out on the best player in college football playing this year, because he did what his own coach has done and jumped at an opportunity to go elsewhere, but they don't let him play. Why don't coaches have to sit a year? Maybe that would change things. :)
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  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    SharkHawk wrote:Luck's dad is the AD at West Virginia and was a professional athlete collecting a hefty pension. Plus Luck went to Stanford on top of that. Comparing the two situations is ludicrous.


    How is it ludicrous? It's not like you've listed Clowney's background. The only ludicrous thing is your assumption he and his family are poor and desperate for cash that their situations would be different. Luck risked serious injury playing at Stanford, the same as Clowney would do if he takes the field.

    Classy response by way.


    Wait a second... so you're saying facetiously that somebody else's post is "classy"? Hilarious. I can't even say it's somehow ironic. I just find it downright damned hilarious.

    The situations are entirely different because of the situations that were stated. If anybody is making an insinuation it is you sir. QB's tend to go higher in the draft and there was virtually no risk on Luck as he DID already have an insurance policy and he had the CHOICE of whether or not he wanted to go. Clowney has not been given that choice because of the arbitrary rule the NCAA set. The stupid self-serving rule that does nada for the kids and is aimed entirely at making the NCAA itself more and more wealthy.

    I never said Clowney was poor and desperate for cash. I said the comparisons were ludicrous. Luck was a large QB playing behind the best or second best line in college football in what is a defensively weak conference. He is a QB that is good at throwing the ball away and running out of bounds to escape trouble due to the massive amount of time he had in the pocket when needed due to the quality of his offensive line.

    Clowney hits extremely hard. He is big and strong. But guys that are big and strong and play DEFENSE tend to suffer injuries upon hitting others, even if they are the harder hitters. He has a chance to hurt himself more than a QB who sits behind a wall of a line and picks teams apart.

    Luck's family is rich. I have yet to hear of Clowney's father playing in the NFL or being an athletic director at a major university. Do you have evidence to the contrary? What I have heard is that Clowney is from a relatively poor area and typically kids from relatively poor areas aren't rich. As those who are rich don't tend to live in relatively poor rural areas. So yes, Clowney's risk is greater for several reasons.

    How is my post "un-classy" for pointing out the differences in their situations? Are you insinuating something beyond what you are saying, because it sure seems like you are. My wife grew up for a spell in rural Georgia where the median income is about the same as the area where Clowney comes from. She is black. My children are of mixed race. If we still lived in that area and my son had a chance to make it big in his chosen field and all he had to do was step away and take a year to prepare without putting himself in harm's way, then I'd do whatever I possibly could to help him. Because I'm not Oliver Luck... I'm not collecting a large pension, and I'm not an athletic director at a University, nor would my son likely be attending Stanford. Much much different situations, and trying to compare what happens in the deep south and at Stanford is apparently something that doesn't compute for you. It is an entirely different world and the situations are as different as is possible in the United States. It is a different world.
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  • SharkHawk wrote:
    theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    SharkHawk wrote:Luck's dad is the AD at West Virginia and was a professional athlete collecting a hefty pension. Plus Luck went to Stanford on top of that. Comparing the two situations is ludicrous.


    How is it ludicrous? It's not like you've listed Clowney's background. The only ludicrous thing is your assumption he and his family are poor and desperate for cash that their situations would be different. Luck risked serious injury playing at Stanford, the same as Clowney would do if he takes the field.

    Classy response by way.


    Wait a second... so you're saying facetiously that somebody else's post is "classy"? Hilarious. I can't even say it's somehow ironic. I just find it downright damned hilarious.

    The situations are entirely different because of the situations that were stated. If anybody is making an insinuation it is you sir. QB's tend to go higher in the draft and there was virtually no risk on Luck as he DID already have an insurance policy and he had the CHOICE of whether or not he wanted to go. Clowney has not been given that choice because of the arbitrary rule the NCAA set. The stupid self-serving rule that does nada for the kids and is aimed entirely at making the NCAA itself more and more wealthy.

    I never said Clowney was poor and desperate for cash. I said the comparisons were ludicrous. Luck was a large QB playing behind the best or second best line in college football in what is a defensively weak conference. He is a QB that is good at throwing the ball away and running out of bounds to escape trouble due to the massive amount of time he had in the pocket when needed due to the quality of his offensive line.

    Clowney hits extremely hard. He is big and strong. But guys that are big and strong and play DEFENSE tend to suffer injuries upon hitting others, even if they are the harder hitters. He has a chance to hurt himself more than a QB who sits behind a wall of a line and picks teams apart.

    Luck's family is rich. I have yet to hear of Clowney's father playing in the NFL or being an athletic director at a major university. Do you have evidence to the contrary? What I have heard is that Clowney is from a relatively poor area and typically kids from relatively poor areas aren't rich. As those who are rich don't tend to live in relatively poor rural areas. So yes, Clowney's risk is greater for several reasons.

    How is my post "un-classy" for pointing out the differences in their situations? Are you insinuating something beyond what you are saying, because it sure seems like you are. My wife grew up for a spell in rural Georgia where the median income is about the same as the area where Clowney comes from. She is black. My children are of mixed race. If we still lived in that area and my son had a chance to make it big in his chosen field and all he had to do was step away and take a year to prepare without putting himself in harm's way, then I'd do whatever I possibly could to help him. Because I'm not Oliver Luck... I'm not collecting a large pension, and I'm not an athletic director at a University, nor would my son likely be attending Stanford. Much much different situations, and trying to compare what happens in the deep south and at Stanford is apparently something that doesn't compute for you. It is an entirely different world and the situations are as different as is possible in the United States. It is a different world.



    The reason I made reference to a 'classy' response is because you've assumed your own position to be one of authority and therefore anyone else's opinion or view is 'ludicrous'. Highlighting Luck's willingness to play as a comparable example is not 'ludicrous'. If you disagree, just disagree.

    And again, we have no idea about Clowney's background and I for one am not going to make any assumptions. Whether Luck's father is loaded or not, the risks are the same for the individual. Everything I've seen about Andrew so far suggests to me this is a guy who would be determined to make his own living. He would've been the #1 pick had he sat out the entire year, enjoyed the big contract. Not everyone wants to live off 'daddy'. I don't know if Clowney needs the money or not. I've already stated my opinion - take out an insurance policy worth around $5m-7m. Then in a worst case scenario you are secure. Then get on the field and continue to help your current team prosper in the SEC.
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  • Out of curiosity, what is Clowney's injury history? Has he sat out any seasons before worried about a potential injury? After all, it was clear before this season that the kid has NFL written all over him.

    I think Clowney should definitely protect himself with an insurance policy, but he's a football player. He needs to play and go all out like he does every season. How many times have we heard that the risk of injury is greater when you're not going full speed and playing tentatively?

    For the people saying he should sit out and acting as if there is some guaranteed figure he's going to receive, what if a slew of other players drastically raise their stock this season? Who's to say that Clowney even goes top 10 if he sits the whole year? Who's to say that Clowney doesn't get in a car accident while he's sitting out the year?

    There are no guarantees for Clowney right now regarding an NFL career. In the end, I think if he's worried about injury, he should take out the insurance policy, and then continue to do what he's been doing that put him in this position in the first place - dominate on the football field.
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  • I think if his future NFL status was at all guaranteed then it is a fair question. Since it isn't, it's kind of a moot point. Players have to earn their way to the top of the draft, not just sit and let it happen. National signing day just happened, you don't see those players talk about sitting out and waiting for their time to come to just turn pro. Heck, outside of Matthew Stafford, how many people were predicted as top overall draft choices and actually were top overall draft choices. I suspect the NFL could loosen the eligibility rules and it wouldn't make that big of a difference. How many true Freshmen and Sophomores really make a big enough impact to turn pro so quickly?
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  • Clowney is, minimum, Top 3. He's got that eventuality to him, like a QB.

    Change your mind GA?
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  • pehawk wrote:English, Luck was also pre-med, and exceling academically. Please, really?


    Luck was an architecture major (and Stanford doesn't have a certified architecture program which is actually quite strange). Not pre-med.

    Also, if Clowney doesn't play next year, he runs the risk of skill deterioration since he'd essentially have not taken a snap for 2 years. Staying in shape and all that is far easier if you have an immediate goal.
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  • pehawk wrote:Clowney is, minimum, Top 3. He's got that eventuality to him, like a QB.

    Change your mind GA?


    He might be top 3 if he could come out this year, but if he sits for a year? I highly doubt he ends up top 3. I think he becomes somebody a team takes a bit of a flyer on in the bottom half of the first round. And like somebody said earlier, rookie deals aren't what they used to be. If he could have been the top pick (even top 3) a couple of years ago maybe it would be something to consider. But he's going to have to play several years before getting a shot at a "big deal" so he'll already be risking himself (and probably a lot more than he would in college).

    So, if we take your premise that he'll be a top pick whenever he comes out then I think it's worth considering. But I just accept that premise. I think sitting out would cause him to slide.
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  • Sarlacc83 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:English, Luck was also pre-med, and exceling academically. Please, really?


    Luck was an architecture major (and Stanford doesn't have a certified architecture program which is actually quite strange). Not pre-med.

    Also, if Clowney doesn't play next year, he runs the risk of skill deterioration since he'd essentially have not taken a snap for 2 years. Staying in shape and all that is far easier if you have an immediate goal.


    Wow, really? Howd I mix that up?
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  • HawkGA wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Clowney is, minimum, Top 3. He's got that eventuality to him, like a QB.

    Change your mind GA?


    He might be top 3 if he could come out this year, but if he sits for a year? I highly doubt he ends up top 3. I think he becomes somebody a team takes a bit of a flyer on in the bottom half of the first round. And like somebody said earlier, rookie deals aren't what they used to be. If he could have been the top pick (even top 3) a couple of years ago maybe it would be something to consider. But he's going to have to play several years before getting a shot at a "big deal" so he'll already be risking himself (and probably a lot more than he would in college).

    So, if we take your premise that he'll be a top pick whenever he comes out then I think it's worth considering. But I just accept that premise. I think sitting out would cause him to slide.

    I see it like this. If he sits out, his football passion will be questioned, and he will drop anyway.
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  • pehawk wrote:
    Blitzer88 wrote:Play, I can't believe that this idea or topic is actually gaining ground. Really hope this doesn't become a trend for any potential high draft pick.


    Well, its gaining traction because some people have empathy, ie place themselves in another persons shoes. I don't believe for a minute if someone said "hey, if you don't play for SC, you get a guarenteed 15M. Play, and you may not", anyone wouldn't chose the first option.

    Blitzer, you'd take the first option. Its insane and dishonest to say otherwise. Even if you would choose option B, which you wouldn't, I don't enjoy telling others when or how to earn their living.

    Its just a messed up policy.


    I don't think it has anything to do with empathy. In fact, I don't think those saying to take a year off have a clue what it's like to be a professional caliber athlete. You don't get to be as good as Clowney without being extremely driven, and extremely competitive, and without an extreme love for the game.

    Not playing is not an option at this point. Football players play football.
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Re: If you were Clowney would you sit out?
Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:49 pm
  • McGruff wrote:
    pehawk wrote:
    Blitzer88 wrote:Play, I can't believe that this idea or topic is actually gaining ground. Really hope this doesn't become a trend for any potential high draft pick.


    Well, its gaining traction because some people have empathy, ie place themselves in another persons shoes. I don't believe for a minute if someone said "hey, if you don't play for SC, you get a guarenteed 15M. Play, and you may not", anyone wouldn't chose the first option.

    Blitzer, you'd take the first option. Its insane and dishonest to say otherwise. Even if you would choose option B, which you wouldn't, I don't enjoy telling others when or how to earn their living.

    Its just a messed up policy.


    I don't think it has anything to do with empathy. In fact, I don't think those saying to take a year off have a clue what it's like to be a professional caliber athlete.


    I'm pretty sure we're as informed about what it is like to be a professional caliber athlete as you are. :roll:
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  • Snohomie wrote:
    McGruff wrote:
    I don't think it has anything to do with empathy. In fact, I don't think those saying to take a year off have a clue what it's like to be a professional caliber athlete.


    I'm pretty sure we're as informed about what it is like to be a professional caliber athlete as you are. :roll:


    Definition of EMPATHY

    1
    : the imaginative projection of a subjective state into an object so that the object appears to be infused with it
    2
    : the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for this

    You don't have to be a professional caliber athlete to have empathy for a professional caliber athlete. I'm simply saying that telling a high level football player to not play football shows a lack of understanding for what drives these guys.
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Re: If you were Clowney would you sit out?
Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:00 am
  • And what makes you an expert on what drives these guys? Specifically, Clowney? Enough of an expert to say others have no clue what they are talking about.

    Maurice Clarrett was as good a collegiate performer as Clowney at one point, and I think we can safely say that he isn't, "extremely driven, and extremely competitive, and without an extreme love for the game." despite your certainty that all players as good as Clowney are. It is very dangerous to pigeonhole all great athletes into a specific mindset, not all have the Michael Jordan mindset.
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Re: If you were Clowney would you sit out?
Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:04 am
  • McGruff should allow us, his fans, input into his financial personal business. Screw what's best for him or his family, its about us and our thoughts.
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Re: If you were Clowney would you sit out?
Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:20 am
  • pehawk wrote:McGruff should allow us, his fans, input into his financial personal business. Screw what's best for him or his family, its about us and our thoughts.

    What the heck? It has nothing to do with the fans!

    It's about what drives a man, and for the vast majority of football players, they are driven by competition and excellence. It's why they don't retire even thou they are financially set for life. It's what keeps them hanging on long past their peak productivity. It's why they become coaches and broadcasters after the game . . . Because they still want the feel of the game, to be near the field of play.

    That's not to say they aren't motivated money, but the primal instinct of most athletes is competition and success.
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  • I have a fairly strong primal instinct to care for my family. If a year from today I could have a sure 10M, or risk that amount by not sitting idle, I'd choose the 1st option. We're not talking an average ciscumstance, Clowney's ready now and will be top 2 pick, regardless.
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  • pehawk wrote:I have a fairly strong primal instinct to care for my family. If a year from today I could have a sure 10M, or risk that amount by not sitting idle, I'd choose the 1st option. We're not talking an average ciscumstance, Clowney's ready now and will be top 2 pick, regardless.

    I agree wholeheartedly. I don't think it's fair that essentially a monopolized industry without an antitrust exemption should be able to limit a guy like Clowney for the sole purpose of propping up another gigantic industry that's based on free labor.
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  • The NFL incentivizesizes such choices with the new CBA. You'll start to see similar occur with pros, soon. The new CBA structures players salaries eerily similar to the US economy, haves n have-nots.
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  • What are the contracts nowadays for top picks? All I know is they are different but I don't really know amounts.

    As for the monopolized industries . . . . monopolies, generally, are bad. We allow them in some instances. What society needs to do a better job of discerning is when industries should be monopolized for the public good, when they shouldn't be monopolized for the public good, and when it just doesn't matter. Professional sports is the last one.
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  • [/quote]


    The reason I made reference to a 'classy' response is because you've assumed your own position to be one of authority and therefore anyone else's opinion or view is 'ludicrous'. Highlighting Luck's willingness to play as a comparable example is not 'ludicrous'. If you disagree, just disagree.

    And again, we have no idea about Clowney's background and I for one am not going to make any assumptions. Whether Luck's father is loaded or not, the risks are the same for the individual. Everything I've seen about Andrew so far suggests to me this is a guy who would be determined to make his own living. He would've been the #1 pick had he sat out the entire year, enjoyed the big contract. Not everyone wants to live off 'daddy'. I don't know if Clowney needs the money or not. I've already stated my opinion - take out an insurance policy worth around $5m-7m. Then in a worst case scenario you are secure. Then get on the field and continue to help your current team prosper in the SEC.[/quote]

    My mistake. My post was "unclassy" because I put myself in a position where I assumed my thought process was correct and I put myself in a position of "authority".

    So, every time you make a post telling everybody else how wrong they are and that you have all of this evidence backing your viewpoint, then you're not just stating things to try to convince others of your own viewpoint and give it credibility, rather you are doing it in order to be classless? I had always assumed the best and figured that you posted the things you posted with such certainty and posted what are clearly opinions as FACTS when they are stated by you as taking a strong position because you felt strongly about an issue or your evaluation of a player's ability.

    Now it seems that the truth is that when people do so, they are really just attempting to be classless. I will assume from here on out that you're attempting to put yourself above all of us, to be classless in your words, and to rule over us with your ultimate authority point of view on all things we discuss moving forward. Thanks for setting the record straight.
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  • English, kinda with Shark here. Pot meet kettle scenario. Itd be like me calling others out for being a "short douchebag".
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  • I love college football, so sitting out to protect your draft stock (your = player x,y,z) would just make you a pansy loser in my eyes. Sitting out to protect yourself is like soccer players flopping around on the field all day, bunch of spoiled prima donnas. Just do what Jake Locker did, when he returned for his senior year, he got a $1 million dollar insurance policy in case he got injured playing college ball.

    College football is often better than the NFL, so it would be a disaster if it turned into the NBA/college basketball fiasco where everyone bolts for the NBA after their freshmen year.
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  • I totally agree with you MLO, as a fan of NCAA football I like the rule. It makes the games so much better. But, my issue is putting that love of the game above an individuals right to earn as much money as possible.

    Clowney snaps a femur, or sustains 3 concussions next season, he'll lose at least $10M. Insurance is only applicable if he never plays again, it can't insure the losses sustained from dropping to a 3rd or 4th round pick. I don't think there's realistic understandings of how that type of insurance works in this thread.
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  • He only gets that if he NEVER plays football again or goes undrafted, IIRC. He'd have to break both legs and lose an arm to not get drafted.
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  • pehawk wrote:He only gets that if he NEVER plays football again or goes undrafted, IIRC. He'd have to break both legs and lose an arm to not get drafted.


    That's a great idea for a movie right there, pe. Superstar QB has a tragic accident that sees him lose an arm. Determined to be a pro football player, he becomes a kicker and excels. A little twist on the classic "feel good story" type sports movie haha
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  • South Carolina sophomore DE Jadeveon Clowney told local media members that he will play football during the 2013 season.
    "I used to play around with the boys (and say) I'm going to sit out, but ... I am going to go to school and play," Clowney said. The soon to be junior ran a 4.54 40-yd dash this winter, which is actually slower than he ran in high school, but we think the added weight had something to do with it. In fact, Clowney is up to 273 pounds from his 260 pound playing weight last year. He also took out a $5 million insurance policy in case of an injury.
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  • NYCoug wrote:
    pehawk wrote:He only gets that if he NEVER plays football again or goes undrafted, IIRC. He'd have to break both legs and lose an arm to not get drafted.


    That's a great idea for a movie right there, pe. Superstar QB has a tragic accident that sees him lose an arm. Determined to be a pro football player, he becomes a kicker and excels. A little twist on the classic "feel good story" type sports movie haha


    Okay, we're on to some thing here. Somehow we have to incorporate Def Leppard into the title, for the obvious reasoning.
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  • pehawk wrote:
    NYCoug wrote:
    pehawk wrote:He only gets that if he NEVER plays football again or goes undrafted, IIRC. He'd have to break both legs and lose an arm to not get drafted.


    That's a great idea for a movie right there, pe. Superstar QB has a tragic accident that sees him lose an arm. Determined to be a pro football player, he becomes a kicker and excels. A little twist on the classic "feel good story" type sports movie haha


    Okay, we're on to some thing here. Somehow we have to incorporate Def Leppard into the title, for the obvious reasoning.


    I like where this is going. How bout, instead of becoming a kicker he instead becomes a referee. "Ref Leppard." He trades in throwing game-winning touchdown passes and banging cheap floozies for a striped shirt and a whistle. A man who loses everything and still decides that he wants to protect the integrity of the game. Despite his one arm, all players fear him. He makes Ed Hochuli look like a little pansy.
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  • "Ref Leppard" that'd look great on a hat. Perfect!

    Our hero identifies a talented QB making big mistakes and in danger of repeating our hero's past mistakes. The QB will be played by Jack Black because it just makes too much sense. Obviously, our ref would take a liking to the QB, but to pass on some valuable life lessons.

    The poster would be similar to the below examples, but with Jack Black in his football outfit and our ex-QB converted ref.


    Image


    Why cant we just get Ed himself? Refs dont make much...so all we have to do is offer more money than those chisslers at the NFL.
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  • pehawk wrote:"Ref Leppard" that'd look great on a hat. Perfect!

    Our hero identifies a talented QB making big mistakes and in danger of repeating our hero's past mistakes. The QB will be played by Jack Black because it just makes too much sense. Obviously, our ref would take a liking to the QB, but to pass on some valuable life lessons.

    The poster would be similar to the below examples, but with Jack Black in his football outfit and our ex-QB converted ref.


    Image


    Why cant we just get Ed himself? Refs dont make much...so all we have to do is offer more money than those chisslers at the NFL.


    I don't know if Ed would be cool with amputating one of his arms. Can't ruin those guns he's got. Whoever we get has to be a REAL method actor. He'll have to play QB in the Arena League for a year prior to filming, then have his arm cut off, then go to ref school. Hmmmm.... Daniel Day Lewis? Nah, too old...

    I like Jack Black as the QB. Starts off as sort of a Jim McMahon type before our hero sets him straight. Good work on the poster find, that'll work. Christian Bale as "Ref Leppard?" I think he's crazy enough to actually do it!
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