B. Coleman and J. Mathews

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This only would happen if Doug Baldwin is snagged for a second rounder in free agency which i anticipate will happen because teams were asking about him last year before the clutch performances. So if that happends I think taking these two players in the first and second round would add size to improve the WR's core. I believe Colemans raw physical ability and potential warrant a first round investment from the seahawks because of the instant fear factor his size would bring to the WR core. Now Mathews is a competitor and a dedicated student of the game in my opinion. I believe he stayed after during the senior bowl to throw with the QB's and requested a list of the cb's attending to be able to study film on them that is someone RW could connect with. These two players would add size and complement Percy Harvin and Golden Tate's game.

I also like the idea of these two competing against the L.O.B during practice on a daily basis and how that would develop both their games. Like it did for Kearse and Baldwin.
 

Natethegreat

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I get why people like Coleman but why would we spend our first round pick on someone no one will be picking in the first two rounds(obviously that could change after the combine)? We waited for Russel till the third. Also if DB were to go and we got two second round picks we easily could pick Coleman in the second and still have our first. That leaves possibilities like ASJ and Kelvin Benjamin open to us in the first who would never drop to us in the second.
 

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If we get another 2nd rd pick, I'd prefer to grab the better of TE/OL in the 1st, Coleman with our new 2nd rd pick and whatever falls to the end of the 2nd, if not trade back from our 2nd rd pick.
 

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Thats the smartest move imo, ive been all on board with getting a pick for baldwin, many people hate me for that on here.
i think that would be a cool scenario though op. imagine kb falling and picking up KB in the first, coleman in the 2nd, and a big te with our other second, talk about getting big and fast over night on offense.

I personally am more on board for going Coleman, and a Big TE, then maybe a Dlineman with those first 3 picks but were splitting hairs here until the combine shakes out and we have a better idea where players will fall. I think kearse is solid enough we dont NEED to draft a second wr early although i wouldnt be mad, seems like we could pick up a really solid 2nd wr with size around the 4th or 5th for a developmental type.
 

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Thinking on this more, I don't know how ADB contract situation plays out. I'm becoming more certain by the day that Tate is gone. There are too many mediocre receivers getting $6m+ for him not to get an offer like that. I don't see how we can afford that. I think they have to try and do something with Baldwin besides just a RFA tag.
 
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EverydayImRusselin":310diful said:
Thinking on this more, I don't know how ADB contract situation plays out. I'm becoming more certain by the day that Tate is gone. There are too many mediocre receivers getting $6m+ for him not to get an offer like that. I don't see how we can afford that. I think they have to try and do something with Baldwin besides just a RFA tag.



I think Doug Baldwin had done to much for the squad to be traded. But if they put a RFA tender of a second rounder and Andrew Luck or RG3 got him ADB would'nt be that mad. But if JS/PC put him out their on the trading block and it don't work out then it would mess up the locker room dynamic.
 

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Brandon Coleman is not a first rounder. He's not even a 2nd rounder. Just about all updated draft sites have him with a Day 3 grade. I've seen Coleman and, frankly, he's not a very good player. Lacks explosiveness, can't separate, and has mental lapses/drops. He's another Jon Baldwin.

Also, Doug Baldwin isn't going anywhere.
 
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NorthDallas40oz":3fg9k7pf said:
Brandon Coleman is not a first rounder. He's not even a 2nd rounder. Just about all updated draft sites have him with a Day 3 grade. I've seen Coleman and, frankly, he's not a very good player. Lacks explosiveness, can't separate, and has mental lapses/drops. He's another Jon Baldwin.

Also, Doug Baldwin isn't going anywhere.


Where did they have Bruce Irvin and James Carpenter rated in their drafts. not rated as first rounders I bet. Seattle finds players that fit their system and don't look back.
 
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Lynch Mob

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Lynch Mob":1lvhpo4m said:
NorthDallas40oz":1lvhpo4m said:
Brandon Coleman is not a first rounder. He's not even a 2nd rounder. Just about all updated draft sites have him with a Day 3 grade. I've seen Coleman and, frankly, he's not a very good player. Lacks explosiveness, can't separate, and has mental lapses/drops. He's another Jon Baldwin.

Also, Doug Baldwin isn't going anywhere.


Where did they have Bruce Irvin and James Carpenter rated in their drafts. not rated as first rounders I bet. Seattle finds players that fit their system and don't look back.

Natethegreat":1lvhpo4m said:
Those would not be my examples of seahawk draft genius

No but its an example of how PC/JS have approached the draft in the past. they don't care about round projections or analysts grades. They look for players that can do what the Seahawks want done. Seattle invests in potential more than any other team in my opinion.
 

NorthDallas40oz

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Lynch Mob":iwfebss6 said:
NorthDallas40oz":iwfebss6 said:
Brandon Coleman is not a first rounder. He's not even a 2nd rounder. Just about all updated draft sites have him with a Day 3 grade. I've seen Coleman and, frankly, he's not a very good player. Lacks explosiveness, can't separate, and has mental lapses/drops. He's another Jon Baldwin.

Also, Doug Baldwin isn't going anywhere.


Where did they have Bruce Irvin and James Carpenter rated in their drafts. not rated as first rounders I bet. Seattle finds players that fit their system and don't look back.
Umm, every team drafts players they believe "fit their system." John Moffitt "fit their system," too. Heck so did Chris Harper last year. And neither Carpenter nor (to a lesser degree) Irvin have yet to pan out as hoped, and certainly not to the level of what should be expected of a 1st round draft pick. Bad examples, kid.

Regardless, nobody is going to draft Brandon Coleman in the first round, NOBODY. Not even the Seahawks. And it will be a miracle if he sneaks into the end of the 2nd round barring some sort of astonishing combine or Pro Day performance. Coleman has a 3-5 round grade, and if you'd watch him play you'll understand why. Sure he's tall, but he's also a very middling wide receiver. I watched the entire Pinstripe Bowl between Rutgers and Notre Dame - the last game that Coleman played - and he was horrible. He made one play the entire game - on a Go route in which the ND cornerback (who was playing injured) lost track of the ball in the air. The earliest that Coleman would become viable is with the Hawks 4th rounder, and even then there would be far superior players available. The last time the Seahawks reached for a WR with size they landed Kris Durham, a complete bust.
 
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Lynch Mob

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NorthDallas40oz":3cttyaln said:
Lynch Mob":3cttyaln said:
NorthDallas40oz":3cttyaln said:
Brandon Coleman is not a first rounder. He's not even a 2nd rounder. Just about all updated draft sites have him with a Day 3 grade. I've seen Coleman and, frankly, he's not a very good player. Lacks explosiveness, can't separate, and has mental lapses/drops. He's another Jon Baldwin.

Also, Doug Baldwin isn't going anywhere.


Where did they have Bruce Irvin and James Carpenter rated in their drafts. not rated as first rounders I bet. Seattle finds players that fit their system and don't look back.
Umm, every team drafts players they believe "fit their system." John Moffitt "fit their system," too. Heck so did Chris Harper last year. And neither Carpenter nor (to a lesser degree) Irvin have yet to pan out as hoped, and certainly not to the level of what should be expected of a 1st round draft pick. Bad examples, kid.

Regardless, nobody is going to draft Brandon Coleman in the first round, NOBODY. Not even the Seahawks. And it will be a miracle if he sneaks into the end of the 2nd round barring some sort of astonishing combine or Pro Day performance. Coleman has a 3-5 round grade, and if you'd watch him play you'll understand why. Sure he's tall, but he's also a very middling wide receiver. I watched the entire Pinstripe Bowl between Rutgers and Notre Dame - the last game that Coleman played - and he was horrible. He made one play the entire game - on a Go route in which the ND cornerback (who was playing injured) lost track of the ball in the air. The earliest that Coleman would become viable is with the Hawks 4th rounder, and even then there would be far superior players available. The last time the Seahawks reached for a WR with size they landed Kris Durham, a complete bust.


Put a picture of Kis Durham next to Brandon Coleman's then re-think that comparison kid. Two different players with way different levels of potential. Believe in what your coaches can do and take a player thats physically gifted and could flourish in Seattle's scheme.
 

Attyla the Hawk

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NorthDallas40oz":1cfz5qn5 said:
Lynch Mob":1cfz5qn5 said:
NorthDallas40oz":1cfz5qn5 said:
Brandon Coleman is not a first rounder. He's not even a 2nd rounder. Just about all updated draft sites have him with a Day 3 grade. I've seen Coleman and, frankly, he's not a very good player. Lacks explosiveness, can't separate, and has mental lapses/drops. He's another Jon Baldwin.

Also, Doug Baldwin isn't going anywhere.


Regardless, nobody is going to draft Brandon Coleman in the first round, NOBODY. Not even the Seahawks. And it will be a miracle if he sneaks into the end of the 2nd round barring some sort of astonishing combine or Pro Day performance. Coleman has a 3-5 round grade, and if you'd watch him play you'll understand why. Sure he's tall, but he's also a very middling wide receiver. I watched the entire Pinstripe Bowl between Rutgers and Notre Dame - the last game that Coleman played - and he was horrible. He made one play the entire game - on a Go route in which the ND cornerback (who was playing injured) lost track of the ball in the air. The earliest that Coleman would become viable is with the Hawks 4th rounder, and even then there would be far superior players available. The last time the Seahawks reached for a WR with size they landed Kris Durham, a complete bust.

A few thoughts.

Firstly, it's been speculated that Seattle has been watching Coleman closely for the last 3 years. We've sent ungodly numbers of scouts to Rutgers games over that time and we've not pulled the trigger on any of them.

I would totally agree, that this season was not a good one for Coleman. It's been known he played through injury and it's well documented that Gary Nova could well have been the worst QB in CFB. If not the worst, then definitely in the discussion for bottom 5.

Seattle has never been a team that has overly concerned themselves with college production. They appear to view the draft almost entirely in terms of types of athletes and people. They seem to kind of regard college as a sort of intro to football kind of deal. Last year, it was speculated that we wanted Vance McDonald at TE -- probably prompting SF to move up ahead of us to take him in the 2nd round. When all along, the one 'guy in the draft we couldn't leave without', ended up being his backup with all of 9 catches on the year.

And that backup ended up having almost as many catches in his first year as all 4 of SFs receiver/backs in the last 2 drafts combined.

Seattle doesn't look at the draft like we do. Whether Coleman looks good or not this year won't deter us if we identify him as the one guy we want.

If you go back a year to 2012, you will see better tape on Coleman. You will also see flashes of talent that will appeal to Seattle. Seattle is elite at two things in the draft. One, they see talent where others don't. Two, they are outstanding at figuring who teams will pick and when. This allows them to move around in the draft and consistently get a lot of picks, and still get quality guys.

I'll concede our day 1 picks have been less than stellar. But champions are made in days 2 and especially 3. I'd feel a lot better about Coleman at 32 than I have our last 2 first round picks (Irvin/Carpenter).
 

ImTheScientist

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Attyla the Hawk":owv10vlo said:
NorthDallas40oz":owv10vlo said:
Lynch Mob":owv10vlo said:
NorthDallas40oz":owv10vlo said:
Brandon Coleman is not a first rounder. He's not even a 2nd rounder. Just about all updated draft sites have him with a Day 3 grade. I've seen Coleman and, frankly, he's not a very good player. Lacks explosiveness, can't separate, and has mental lapses/drops. He's another Jon Baldwin.

Also, Doug Baldwin isn't going anywhere.


Regardless, nobody is going to draft Brandon Coleman in the first round, NOBODY. Not even the Seahawks. And it will be a miracle if he sneaks into the end of the 2nd round barring some sort of astonishing combine or Pro Day performance. Coleman has a 3-5 round grade, and if you'd watch him play you'll understand why. Sure he's tall, but he's also a very middling wide receiver. I watched the entire Pinstripe Bowl between Rutgers and Notre Dame - the last game that Coleman played - and he was horrible. He made one play the entire game - on a Go route in which the ND cornerback (who was playing injured) lost track of the ball in the air. The earliest that Coleman would become viable is with the Hawks 4th rounder, and even then there would be far superior players available. The last time the Seahawks reached for a WR with size they landed Kris Durham, a complete bust.

A few thoughts.

Firstly, it's been speculated that Seattle has been watching Coleman closely for the last 3 years. We've sent ungodly numbers of scouts to Rutgers games over that time and we've not pulled the trigger on any of them.

I would totally agree, that this season was not a good one for Coleman. It's been known he played through injury and it's well documented that Gary Nova could well have been the worst QB in CFB. If not the worst, then definitely in the discussion for bottom 5.

Seattle has never been a team that has overly concerned themselves with college production. They appear to view the draft almost entirely in terms of types of athletes and people. They seem to kind of regard college as a sort of intro to football kind of deal. Last year, it was speculated that we wanted Vance McDonald at TE -- probably prompting SF to move up ahead of us to take him in the 2nd round. When all along, the one 'guy in the draft we couldn't leave without', ended up being his backup with all of 9 catches on the year.

And that backup ended up having almost as many catches in his first year as all 4 of SFs receiver/backs in the last 2 drafts combined.

Seattle doesn't look at the draft like we do. Whether Coleman looks good or not this year won't deter us if we identify him as the one guy we want.

If you go back a year to 2012, you will see better tape on Coleman. You will also see flashes of talent that will appeal to Seattle. Seattle is elite at two things in the draft. One, they see talent where others don't. Two, they are outstanding at figuring who teams will pick and when. This allows them to move around in the draft and consistently get a lot of picks, and still get quality guys.

I'll concede our day 1 picks have been less than stellar. But champions are made in days 2 and especially 3. I'd feel a lot better about Coleman at 32 than I have our last 2 first round picks (Irvin/Carpenter).
:13:
 

Natethegreat

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Except that Willson was picked in in the 5th round not the first and Russel was picked in the third round rather than the first. Both guys they loved but refrained from picking till later rounds because they knew other teams did not value them that high.
There isn't a single team out there that is currently considering Coleman as a first round pick. This site seems to be filled with people head over heals for this guy and thats great, but saying we should be spending a first rounder on him is silly, its just not needed. It would be a waste to spend a high round draft pick on a guy they can easily pick up in round two and possibly even in the fourth.
Think of the possible prospects we could miss out on for no good reason, ASJ, Kelvin Benjamin, David Yankey, Jawun James are just a few I have seen mocked to us. Why pass on these talented prospects when we don't need to. Makes very little sense to me.
 

Mr.Hawkbrah

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Natethegreat":hcdrflyh said:
Except that Willson was picked in in the 5th round not the first and Russel was picked in the third round rather than the first. Both guys they loved but refrained from picking till later rounds because they knew other teams did not value them that high.
There isn't a single team out there that is currently considering Coleman as a first round pick. This site seems to be filled with people head over heals for this guy and thats great, but saying we should be spending a first rounder on him is silly, its just not needed. It would be a waste to spend a high round draft pick on a guy they can easily pick up in round two and possibly even in the fourth.
Think of the possible prospects we could miss out on for no good reason, ASJ, Kelvin Benjamin, David Yankey, Jawun James are just a few I have seen mocked to us. Why pass on these talented prospects when we don't need to. Makes very little sense to me.


this site is also filled with people who state things like they are facts when in fact, its just their own likely flawed perception of whats realistic. I have little doubt in my mind you know where any team in this league will draft that guy, although i agree its possible he could fall some. god forbid we waste a first rounder, since our team relies on those so much. we find guys we like, and we get them, which is why people are talking about him. you can say take asj in the first, i wouldnt be mad if we did honestly, but the reality of it is, theres guys coming out of iowa and notre dame who are both mosters and good blockers that could probably be had in the 2nd or later, i can flip your argument and say the trade off from hitting big on coleman is way more impressive than any difference asj would be over those other 2 TE's. I also dont think people are against taking benjamin, i think most are just under the assumption he wont be there where we pick, and from what ive read, after kb and coleman, the elite upside were looking for just isnt there with some of the guys after, why take that risk? we havent drafted conventional and shouldnt expect them too.
 

Natethegreat

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I just find it a little amusing people clamoring over picking a guy in the first round that has potential sure but isn't regarded ANYWERE as a first rounder(most sites have him as third or fourth). You can say well we value players differently and thats all fine and dandy except as I stated earlier even our GM and coach chose not to draft a guy they loved till the third round because they knew they could pick him up later. Same with Luke Willson, they really liked him but weren't silly enough to spend a first rounder on him. I am not in the least concerned that we will use our first pick on him, I just don't see that happening, I just find it somewhat comical. The reason JS and Pete are so into scouting and digging for that late round prospect IS SO THEY CAN PICK THEM UP FOR VALUE IN THE LATER ROUNDS. Obviously they are very good at it too, but they understand getting value out of there picks.
 

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Coleman is physically talented, has size and length, can get up for the football. He's EXACTLY what we need on this team.

If you look at when the RZ TD % fell off a cliff last year, it coincides with our one big WR Sidney Rice tearing his ACL. If you look at 2012's awesome RZ TD %, notice that Rice was healthy pretty much all year.

Coleman is raw, but if we know anything, it's that this team can coach up raw WRs. Tate is Exhibit A.

If we get can Coleman in round three, that would be pretty insane luck for us.
 

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nate: well i find your comparison extremely amusing and lacking a great deal of perspective, luke wilson was a back up. RW was too short to ever succeed. 6 6 WRs that are athletic stick out and is the prototype everyone wants unlike your 2 other examples. I definitely have seen him mocked in the first and more often in the 2nd, im glad you know it all though. Obviously our guys know what value is, but they arnt afraid to surprise people, even nick saban was shocked we took carpenter. even f hes not ranked till 45-50 something, does us no good when we pick at the end of the 2nd. although i would be just as happy to take him in the 2nd, i just think its comical you are this sure of yourself to be honest. You might as well get hired to scout for them, because I have no idea where youre getting definitive draft grades before the combine even goes down.
 

Natethegreat

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Nick Saban had good reason to be surprised we picked Carpenter. He wasn't a first round value pick. Neither was Bruce Irvin imo. You may be right though, when we aren't picking at the top of round one we seem to reach for players for whatever reason but make up for it with outstanding picks in the later rounds. By the way I am not opposed to picking Coleman at all just don't think spending a first rounder on him is a wise way to use it.
 
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