Why a big WR?

The Twelvethman

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Just wondered why we need a Big WR?

Why does a #1 need to be big in the first place? Isn't that the same thinking that goes into why a QB needs to be 6'3 - 6'5.

I don't get it when reading all the topics saying "we need this cause... (its what everyone else has?)" yet we love our team for the exact opposite, finding fits for misfits, having tall DB's, having a short QB. With RW being a QB who doesn't really favour? a particular WR, is it necessary to need someone like everyone else has?

I mean correct me if in fact we do actually need one.
 

Throwdown

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We don't exactly need one, I mean we won the Super Bowl without one. But looking at the history, Pete and Co. favor these kinda of guys. They had major interest in Brandon Marshall, and Vincent Jackson, they had Mike Williams, Sidney Rice, Braylon Edwards, Stephen Williams, and they just signed that Matthews guy out the CFL.

So we don't need one, but there's a definite preference when you look at the history.
 

onanygivensunday

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Big catch radius = catch more balls... when everything else is the same or very close to it.

I would love for the Hawks to have a tall W/R that is truly a #1... like a Fitz, a J. Jones, an AJ Green, etc.

But I would also love a Logan Mankins-type OG to man the Oline.
 

Scottemojo

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I prefer to think of it as needing a guy who knows how to use his size.
 

Natethegreat

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We need a guy that can easily win one on one coverage(see our offense when we had no Harvin and no Rice and getting constant one on one coverage) and a tall long armed receiver has a definite advantage in that situation. We also struggled in the red zone. Once again this is were that tall long armed receiver helps a ton when its tough to get separation with such a small field.
There is a reason Pete wants one so much and well overpaid Rice to come here. They are a a valuable commodity.
 

Happy

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Eb,

In the red zone a big man with soft hands and hops is a valuable asset. Think half court basketball.
 

Hawkfan77

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Why a big WR? Because Carroll and Schneider have been searching for one since they got here.

They have a certain vision for the offense, and I don't think we've seen it yet (which is scary)
 

QuahHawk

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Because big physical WR's have success in this league.

The NFL's leading TD scorers at WR's are all 6"2+ 200lbs+, only 2 WR's under 6'2 caught 10+tds.

14 TD Demarius Thomas 6'3 229lbs
13 TD Dez Bryant 6'2 220lbs
12 TD Brandon Marshall 6'4 230lbs
12 TD Calvin Johnson 6'5 236lbs
11 TD Eric Decker 6'3 214lbs
11 TD AJ Green 6'4 207lbs
10 TD Larry Fitzgerald 6'3 213lbs
10 TD's Cotchery 6'1 , Welker 5'9, and Marvin Jones 6'2


The leagues top receiving yard WR's, only one WR over 1,400 yds was under 6'2 200lbs
1646 yds Josh Gordon 6'3 225lbs
1499 yds Antonio Brown 5'10 185lbs
1492 yds Calvin Johnson 6'5 236
1430 yds Demarius Thomas 6'3 229lbs
1426 yds AJ Green 6'4 207lbs
1421 yds Alshon Jeffery 6'3 216lbs
1407 yds Andre Johnson 6'3 230lbs



Before the Julio Jones injury at 6'3 220lbs he was on pace for 131.2 catches, 1856 yds, and 6.4 TDs.

Success at the WR position seems synonymous with size. Big WR's are allow QB's a safer outlet under duress and can you thier size to defend the ball in the air to prevent turnovers as well. You wonder why we were so conservatinve. Even though Tate has done well winning the jump balls, I think Bevel will trust a 6'3+ WR with a 35"+ vert a little more than Tate for Russ to throw it up too. right now Harvin will be opening up things for other WR's and will get focused on but ad din a big deep threat and jump ball winning WR and they can't really gameplan for both and contain Lynch. It's one of those things that will take this Offense to DEn, GB, NO's level. to go along with the #1 defense.
 

Attyla the Hawk

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EmbattleTheeHawks":4mtaewn4 said:
Just wondered why we need a Big WR?

Why does a #1 need to be big in the first place? Isn't that the same thinking that goes into why a QB needs to be 6'3 - 6'5.

I don't get it when reading all the topics saying "we need this cause... (its what everyone else has?)" yet we love our team for the exact opposite, finding fits for misfits, having tall DB's, having a short QB. With RW being a QB who doesn't really favour? a particular WR, is it necessary to need someone like everyone else has?

I mean correct me if in fact we do actually need one.

Good questions. I'm going to separate the #1 receiver component with the X (Split end) component. The two are not synonymous.

In short, a Split end WR needs to be able to beat physical play. They are lined up on the line of scrimmage. They cannot motion to create space to release off the line. They are susceptible to press coverage because the corner can line up tight on them. They have to be able to physically chuck a corner (usually the strongest corner for the opponent) and release cleanly. Good strong hands/limbs, quickness, balance and technique is required for this. Size helps, because the WR has more mass and is harder for a corner to disrupt because they are bigger and usually much stronger.

Occasionally, you see a smaller WR excel at the X. Steve Smith is a short X but he is freakishly strong despite his diminutive size. Tate is another smaller WR with outstanding strength, quickness and balance. He has the attributes one would need to excel at the SE position.

A #1 receiver not only will they be lined up with an opponents' best cover corner, but they will almost assuredly be getting help over the top. It's often termed 'rolling the coverage'. This allows corners to cheat in the press and to undercut routes as the safety rolls over to cover deep.

A #1 has to be able to cleanly beat the press and have characteristics to enable him to catch balls under very tight coverage. The QB has to deliver a ball between the corner and safety. It's a small window that is tightly contested. And usually results in a receiver getting blasted by a safety almost immediately following a catch. In order to do that, a WR must possess good length and ball skills because the delivery is not going to be optimal (QB trying to keep the ball away from corner). They must be able to absorb the expected contact almost at the time of reception.

This would be a scenario where Tate would struggle with. He doesn't have great length and while he can take a pounding -- the delivery window between a rolled safety and a corner playing a trail technique would be very very small.

Size and strength are natural advantages for a Split end (X) WR, because they increase the delivery window considerably and also give a much better chance that the WR maintains possession after a big hit. The size component really isn't impacted by a players' leaping ability in this regard -- something that many fans mistakenly associate or even substitute for natural size.

Receivers are taught to not jump for balls. That is not good receiving form. Receivers lose burst after the catch and can be ridden out of bounds easily. There is no force out rules in place any more. Additionally, it is much more difficult to get 2 feet in bounds even if they aren't pushed out. And finally, it really only applies on your 5, 6 and occasionally 9 routes (Hitch, curl and go). Routes that come back to the QB. Every other route (cross/slant/out/post/corner) is a lateral route where players are running through the route to catch up to a ball. Not gathering themselves and leaping for a high ball. On these route (and most go routes), the ball is delivered where the WR is not supposed to leave his feet. Whether dropping the ball in the bucket on a go, or on a rope on a cross/out. In those cases, leaping ability doesn't factor in at all. It's merely your generic reach (size and length of reach combined).

Seattle doesn't have a split end on it's roster if Rice is released. Kearse CAN play it because he has some size (6'1") and good strength. But he isn't a player who can excel at it for extended periods. He gives up opportunities that a bigger WR would provide. He's also not the same threat a bigger WR would be. He's a good utility WR not unlike a good utility infielder in baseball. He has versatility to play all our positions and that is incredibly valuable. He has developed extremely good WR skills. But he's not going to provide the kind of threat to force opponents to roll coverage to him, allowing Harvin or Tate to work underneath in single coverage in space.

A Split End does his damage in the deeper portion of the field. To do that, he can't be handled at the line of scrimmage. Release skills and strength are required to perform at that position. Catching balls with guys all over you is another requirement for the position. Fighting for the 50-50 ball is paramount -- as the coverage is generally tight and the small delivery windows are harder to execute and more commonly misthrown. A Split end has to be able to ensure that bad balls are incompletions, not interceptions. Because the coverage is going to be there to burn a QB who is off by just a couple inches.

Nowhere in the WR group is the term 'game of inches' more applicable.
 

Lords of Scythia

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You need a big flanker to create a change-up with Tate/Harvin, who have similar styles. A big wideout could improve our red zone scoring, getting passes along the sideline and back of the end zone where only he can get to the ball. Our offense works, but that doesn't mean it always will - we'll run into somebody who can shut it down. If there's an obvious deficiency, you should always look to upgrade.
 

ivotuk

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Scottemojo":2jrwwtjw said:
I prefer to think of it as needing a guy who knows how to use his size.

Like that kid in Scotte's avatar. What good is it if you aren't able to use it? Rub a wart on it and ride it around the beach!


I like a big WR for bailouts & preventing turnovers. A tall WR is easier for Russell to see downfield, harder for a DB to defend against (jump balls), and his catching radius prevents more turn overs like we saw with Sidney vs the Jags. Russell thought he had a wide open Rice but the Jag DB was right there. If not for Sid's long arms, yoiks! That might have been a Toinovah! On the sideline RW said "you saved me!"

Think of Demaryius Thomas on the Bronco's lone TD catch. Byron was hanging all over him and he still caught the ball.
 

HawkWow

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We have one. He just needs more reps at the position and coaching. Lots of people captivated over a few of these combine guys running 4.5s at 220. Luke Willson ran a 4.46 at 250. His Rice coach called him super intelligent, a great student of the game and felt because of his versatility, he should be the Hawks "go to guy".

You watch Willson run....he doesn't look fast but he obviously is. He does lack quickness, but we are loaded with quick guys. Drop 15 lbs off Willson and that will add to his quickness (in theory) and at 6'6" 235, he will be very hard to jam. That and his 4.46 should make him a legitimate stretch guy that has an incredibly huge radius for a WR.

PLUS, he can still slide inside and function as a TE. I suspect we'll see much more Willson, especially in the redzone, in the coming years and I'd sooner go this route, at least for now, and use our top picks on line help.

Actually, and people will laugh at this, but I'd trade this entire draft (or whatever it takes) for a pick that would land us Greg Robinson. Probably top 5, despite the mocks out there. Laugh, but this kid is O-line Clowney freakish. He's going to dominate sooner than later and I envy the team that gets him. How did Tre mason break Bo's records? > Greg Robinson.
 

Natethegreat

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Yeah Greg Robinson is incredible and it would be nice if our left tackle didn't get hurt for half the season every year. I still would take Evans before Robinson though.
 

HawkWow

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Evans is also a freak. But to get a once in a decade (IMO) LT to protect our QB for the next decade? Tough call but this team has shown it can win without the large stud WR but unsure if we can win again with Okung sitting out half a year (as you suggest).

@ STL. I just wanted that damn game to end. I was to the point where I no longer cared about the W...I was only concerned about RW. That was tough to watch and I believe it stuck with Wilson for some time after...perhaps all the way to the SB. He just didn't look quite the same (to me). I could be wrong.
 

QuahHawk

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Great breakdown of WR Attyla.

Could we trade Okung and our 1st? He is a PB LT but he has had injury and is quite expensive and coming due for a contract soon. Havn't thought if this before but if we could move up to 9-15 and get a slightly better LT or equal LT it might be worth he huge cap savings. Okung is 11mil a 10-20 1st round pick is less than half that. That alone would allow us to resign Sherman longterm.
 

Attyla the Hawk

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Wenhawk":3kozds9g said:
Great breakdown of WR Attyla.

Could we trade Okung and our 1st? He is a PB LT but he has had injury and is quite expensive and coming due for a contract soon. Havn't thought if this before but if we could move up to 9-15 and get a slightly better LT or equal LT it might be worth he huge cap savings. Okung is 11mil a 10-20 1st round pick is less than half that. That alone would allow us to resign Sherman longterm.

No. Realistically, you're just trading a 1st round pick. Those pre CBA contracts are poisonous.
 

Seafan

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When you have a short QB you need bigger targets even more than the rest of the teams. RW tends to throw high, he has too, even when he's not in the pocket.
 
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