Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs

kearly · Mar 18, 2014

http://podcastone.com/Ross-Tucker-Football-Podcast

If you have some time there is a podcast interview with Cosell where he gives his opinions on the 2014 WR group. This is one of those rare times I actually agree with most of what Cosell thinks (the only whiff is him grading Benjamin above Evans.) He also gave some big shout outs to Moncrief and Abbrederis. Anyway, it's just one guys opinion, thought it was an interesting listen.

theENGLISHseahawk · Mar 18, 2014

If anyone can offer a cliffnotes version I'd appreciate it.

3Girls'HawkDad · Mar 18, 2014

Damn it ENGLISH! That YOUR job, to give US cliff notes

Natethegreat · Mar 18, 2014

Said Kb was a little more athletic and fluid running his routes than Evans. That the draft was really deep so much so that teams will get undrafted receivers that contribute this year and in the future. He really liked Odell Beckham said he was sudden and a great route runner and really liked Martavis Bryant as well. Donte Moncrief was his favorite receiver he felt was being overlooked.

kearly · Mar 18, 2014

Most insightful thing I heard from it was him commenting on Jared Abbrederis' ability to make corners turn their hips. I was just chatting with Scotte the other day wondering why Abbrederis is so consistently open on deep routes.

He also said a scout he talked to called Moncrief the most exciting/under the radar player in the draft, not just among WRs but among all players. Scout said he got some Demaryius Thomas type vibes from him (I did too). I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist of it on Moncrief.

Off topic, watching Moncrief my PC/JS senses tingle big time. I don't know if they take him at #32 but if they trade down into the second I would keep an eye on him.

randomation · Mar 18, 2014

I really want the hawks to take abby in the 3rd or 4th but know it will never happen

kearly · Mar 18, 2014

randomation":oqze6fzu said:
I really want the hawks to take abby in the 3rd or 4th but know it will never happen

I think if we trade down from #64, he becomes a likely target.

Blitzer88 · Mar 18, 2014

Ever since we lost Golden Tate I have been going wide receiver crazy. If we don't pick up another one in free agency or draft one in the first round I'm probably going to go nuts. Our WR group worries me right now.

ivotuk · Mar 19, 2014

I have been in love with Abrederris for 2 or 3 years now. He's a solid, dependable receiver that the QB can always count on to get open. Kind of like Brandon Stokely.

I think Kelvin Benjamin is soft and will have a career case of T Rex arms. Please let someone else draft him

I really like Moncrief ever since I saw him in some random game and was impressed. He has something really great about him, not sure what it is but I don't think "intangibles' quite describes it. It's almost like he was born to play football.

If we get Beckham in the 1st I would be happy. I think he would be an upgrade over Golden Tate.

ivotuk · Mar 19, 2014

kearly":2w1p9sl8 said:
http://podcastone.com/Ross-Tucker-Football-Podcast

If you have some time there is a podcast interview with Cosell where he gives his opinions on the 2014 WR group. This is one of those rare times I actually agree with most of what Cosell thinks (the only whiff is him grading Benjamin above Evans.) He also gave some big shout outs to Moncrief and Abbrederis. Anyway, it's just one guys opinion, thought it was an interesting listen.

I listen to Cowherd on the way to work every morning and he has Cosell on once a week. It seems that every week he has some great break down, then says some shit out of the blue that makes me wonder if I heard him right. But he does it every time and I think it's because he has some old, out of date views on football that he clings to and he pushes some version of it in with the rest of his stuff.

He tries too hard to be "one of the boys" too when he's on the radio of TV. He won't be until he learns to put his foot down and not let some of those other numbskulls talk over him.

I think he has some valid stuff though, and his most valuable asset is he looks at players and play differently than everyone else. Maybe that's where his whiffs come from.

Shit oh dear! Moncrief wears #12! And who is that QB throwing to him? Guy's pretty good.

Rob Rang on Donte Moncrief

Moncrief's thick frame, deceptive speed and smooth route-running make him a nightmare for cornerbacks. He does not possess the explosive moves of Southern Cal's Marqise Lee or Clemson's Sammy Watkins but might be a better player than either of them. ... Moncrief tracks the ball well and generally shows excellent hands (one drop vs. Texas), as well as the body control to make the dazzling grab.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/play ... e-moncrief

ivotuk · Mar 19, 2014

To hell with everyone else! I want Jarvis Landry! That guy makes some spectacular catches, with his hands! Looks like he's a 2nd to 3rd round pick but might go even lower because of his poor combine (4.77 40).

He has 10.25" hands though and is great on 3rd downs. I would really like to see this guy in a Seahawks uniform because he will keep the chains moving.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jar ... id=2543488

[youtube]pjKdZXSnMns[/youtube]

Some good info on him

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1971 ... erformance

2013 Southeastern Conference Leaders Receiving - On 3rd Down (Jarvis leads all receivers)

28 catches for 26 1st downs and 474 yards, 16.93 average 6 TDs. That's pretty good considering his team mate was Odell Beckham who was fourth behind Donte Moncrief and Jordan Mathews.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2013/leader/911 ... ort03.html

Crap, now I'm going to be up all night looking at receivers, damn you Kearly! Damn you!

McGruff · Mar 19, 2014

Landry had perhaps the worst combine of any player in NFL draft history. It was really bad, and it wasn't just his 40 time. His bench, and most importantly for Seattle, his vertical and broad jump were terrible. He's undersized with short arms. There is nothing about him that is remotely sparky or seahawky.

SomersetHawk · Mar 19, 2014

McGruff":33bgxgjv said:
Landry had perhaps the worst combine of any player in NFL draft history. It was really bad, and it wasn't just his 40 time. His bench, and most importantly for Seattle, his vertical and broad jump were terrible. He's undersized with short arms. There is nothing about him that is remotely sparky or seahawky.

I completely agree with everything you said. But I still can't help feel that he's going to have a good NFL career.

ivotuk · Mar 19, 2014

McGruff":206qjp04 said:
Landry had perhaps the worst combine of any player in NFL draft history. It was really bad, and it wasn't just his 40 time. His bench, and most importantly for Seattle, his vertical and broad jump were terrible. He's undersized with short arms. There is nothing about him that is remotely sparky or seahawky.

He also pulled a hamstring at the combine. I'll be interested in seeing how he does at his pro day. Either way, the "underwear olympics" doesn't make a whole lot of difference where a player is drafted. It's the game film for the most part where teams make their decisions. History has proven time and time again that making decisions based solely on the combine is a big mistake.

TeamoftheCentury · Mar 19, 2014

Was anything mentioned of Bruce Ellington? Haven't heard others discuss Ellington. Am I the only one here at .net that is intrigued by this guy? Cousin of Cardinals' Andre Ellington.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl-prospe ... --nfl.html

Ellington lacks great size at 5093 – 197, but he is an excellent athlete. He may have had the best overall receiver workout at the Combine, running 4.45, with jumps of 39.5 and 10’ and a 6.69 three-cone. He also did 15 reps of 225. While not tall, he has long arms and is well built. His lower body is thick and muscular. He looks more like a running back than a receiver. (Sound like anyone the Seahawks just lost in free agency?)

Ellington is very quick off the line. He easily avoids or fights through jams and gets into his routes quickly. He is still raw as a route runner, but with his great body control and quickness, he is able to get separation on short and long routes. He has very good hands and shows top ability to adjust to the ball. He is effective as both a short and long receiver, and with his top run skills, he can consistently turn a short reception into a long gain. As a kick returner, he shows top instincts and doesn’t dance.

When you factor in that Ellington has only played two years of college football and never really devoted all his time to the sport, you have to say he has unlimited potential. He still has to develop his route running skills, but he can be a special player in time.

McGruff · Mar 19, 2014

ivotuk":tezoecd7 said:
McGruff":tezoecd7 said:

Landry had perhaps the worst combine of any player in NFL draft history. It was really bad, and it wasn't just his 40 time. His bench, and most importantly for Seattle, his vertical and broad jump were terrible. He's undersized with short arms. There is nothing about him that is remotely sparky or seahawky.

Click to expand...

He also pulled a hamstring at the combine. I'll be interested in seeing how he does at his pro day. Either way, the "underwear olympics" doesn't make a whole lot of difference where a player is drafted. It's the game film for the most part where teams make their decisions. History has proven time and time again that making decisions based solely on the combine is a big mistake.

I'll be wwatching his pro day results closely, but its one think to run a bad 40. Its another thing to be historically bad in every single drill.

Attyla the Hawk · Mar 19, 2014

kearly":g83n4dum said:
Most insightful thing I heard from it was him commenting on Jared Abbrederis' ability to make corners turn their hips. I was just chatting with Scotte the other day wondering why Abbrederis is so consistently open on deep routes.

I noted that here during the college season a while back as well. Abbrederis is a wizard at route running. Racial stereotype aside, I called his route precision Largentesque. He ties up corners exquisitely. And you can see by watching him that he sets them up the moment he releases from the line. He knows how to attack a corner before the snap and shows the ability to adjust mid route to gain advantage on a defender.

He strikes me as a player who is going to incorporate the subtleties of receiving at the NFL level better than any other prospect in this draft. He will never have the physical profile of those of his class -- but he's not mundane physically either. He just looks like a guy who will always have a trick he can use to get clean at the next level. Someone that shouldn't always be that open but just is.

Truth be told, I can't imagine how good he can be playing against Sherman and this secondary every day in practice. To me, he's kind of the Sherman of this WR class. Not great physically but more than adequate. Scary smart and savvy. With a lot of attitude. A guy who will understand the value of work having been a walk on at Madison.

I wrote the following in February and it's really eerie how close this offseason has followed thus far:

....And central to that sustained excellence, is spending money wisely. It is not a sin to spend big contracts on players who are special. Wilson. Thomas. Sherman. Harvin. Those are all special players.

Where teams get into cap trouble, is when they have to pay good players their full market value. Tate. Baldwin. Miller. Wright. Irvin. Giacomini. These guys are good productive players. But the delta between them and a good draft choice is manageable.

Tate is going to command 5m or more next year. Abbrederis is essentially a Tate if I've ever seen one. That's a huge savings even in round 2 over what we'd pay Tate. At some point, we have to identify the players we can reload with rookie talent. The most assured way to do that, is to identify the players we can't replace and pay them. Then replace the ones we can.

Taking an Abbrederis in round 2 would be like getting Abbrederis, Baldwin and Michael Bennett instead of simply resigning Tate. The difference in salary between Jared and Golden is going to be close to 4.5m per year. That would be a huge reload in my estimation. And definitely worth the spend of a #64 overall.

Would it improve the team? No. It would probably be a regression initially. But this team is going to have to pick and choose which second contracts it opts for if they want to keep the core of the team intact. That has to start this year, not next. I would heavily endorse selecting Abbrederis even if we were to select an X receiver in the first round (a vacancy we all expect coming). Because it would mean allowing the team to reload with similar quality to what we have. And at this stage of our team's rebuild -- we have to start looking at maintenance and staying young. Not simply adding what we don't have (which is very little).

And at #64 overall for a team this good, that's a very tangible win. Abbrederis is worth the pick at #64 for us. He is very similar to Tate in most respects. There are few prospects in this entire draft class who are so similarly matched.

The fact will be, we will have already made the determination on whether we keep Tate or not well before the draft. We won't select Abbrederis if we resign Tate. We will reload elsewhere. But if he walks in UFA, then I'd book that selection in the second the moment the ink dries. The tea leaves should be pretty easy to read come March.

Of course we could easily move back and not spend #64 on him.

EverydayImRusselin · Mar 19, 2014

Attyla the Hawk":2970nxud said:
kearly":2970nxud said:

Most insightful thing I heard from it was him commenting on Jared Abbrederis' ability to make corners turn their hips. I was just chatting with Scotte the other day wondering why Abbrederis is so consistently open on deep routes.

Click to expand...

I noted that here during the college season a while back as well. Abbrederis is a wizard at route running. Racial stereotype aside, I called his route precision Largentesque. He ties up corners exquisitely. And you can see by watching him that he sets them up the moment he releases from the line. He knows how to attack a corner before the snap and shows the ability to adjust mid route to gain advantage on a defender.

He strikes me as a player who is going to incorporate the subtleties of receiving at the NFL level better than any other prospect in this draft. He will never have the physical profile of those of his class -- but he's not mundane physically either. He just looks like a guy who will always have a trick he can use to get clean at the next level. Someone that shouldn't always be that open but just is.

Truth be told, I can't imagine how good he can be playing against Sherman and this secondary every day in practice. To me, he's kind of the Sherman of this WR class. Not great physically but more than adequate. Scary smart and savvy. With a lot of attitude. A guy who will understand the value of work having been a walk on at Madison.

I wrote the following in February and it's really eerie how close this offseason has followed thus far:

....And central to that sustained excellence, is spending money wisely. It is not a sin to spend big contracts on players who are special. Wilson. Thomas. Sherman. Harvin. Those are all special players.

Where teams get into cap trouble, is when they have to pay good players their full market value. Tate. Baldwin. Miller. Wright. Irvin. Giacomini. These guys are good productive players. But the delta between them and a good draft choice is manageable.

Tate is going to command 5m or more next year. Abbrederis is essentially a Tate if I've ever seen one. That's a huge savings even in round 2 over what we'd pay Tate. At some point, we have to identify the players we can reload with rookie talent. The most assured way to do that, is to identify the players we can't replace and pay them. Then replace the ones we can.

Taking an Abbrederis in round 2 would be like getting Abbrederis, Baldwin and Michael Bennett instead of simply resigning Tate. The difference in salary between Jared and Golden is going to be close to 4.5m per year. That would be a huge reload in my estimation. And definitely worth the spend of a #64 overall.

Would it improve the team? No. It would probably be a regression initially. But this team is going to have to pick and choose which second contracts it opts for if they want to keep the core of the team intact. That has to start this year, not next. I would heavily endorse selecting Abbrederis even if we were to select an X receiver in the first round (a vacancy we all expect coming). Because it would mean allowing the team to reload with similar quality to what we have. And at this stage of our team's rebuild -- we have to start looking at maintenance and staying young. Not simply adding what we don't have (which is very little).

And at #64 overall for a team this good, that's a very tangible win. Abbrederis is worth the pick at #64 for us. He is very similar to Tate in most respects. There are few prospects in this entire draft class who are so similarly matched.

The fact will be, we will have already made the determination on whether we keep Tate or not well before the draft. We won't select Abbrederis if we resign Tate. We will reload elsewhere. But if he walks in UFA, then I'd book that selection in the second the moment the ink dries. The tea leaves should be pretty easy to read come March.

Click to expand...

Of course we could easily move back and not spend #64 on him.

Thanks for the insight. Who would you compare him to in the NFL outside of the Hawks?

ImTheScientist · Mar 19, 2014

I love me some Moncrief.

Attyla the Hawk · Mar 19, 2014

EverydayImRusselin":265tf1wg said:
Thanks for the insight. Who would you compare him to in the NFL outside of the Hawks?

I think he compares almost identically to Antonio Brown (2010) out of Central Michigan.

Both physically and skill set wise, they are remarkably similar. Brown is an outstanding route runner and was so even in college. In today's NFL -- if we talking quality of route running and the subtle skills a WR can use to get open outside of physical attributes -- they are virtual clones.

Both weighed in an under 190 lbs. Both in the low 4.5 range. Abbrederis' explosion/agility scores are superior by a pretty solid margin. He is also 3 inches taller, but neither with incredible length (31" arms).

Both players with exceptional ball skills and strong hands.

Really, they are very very similar types of prospects. Brown went in the 6th round. He was also the second half of a double dip into the WR pool by Pittsburgh that year. If he were redrafted, he'd be a first round pick quite easily. Like Abbrederis, he fell because of generic 'upside' limitations that drop good players far below their real quality every single year. And the fact he played in a small school conference suppressed his stock by a couple rounds on top of that.

Abbrederis could easily be Antonio Brown. Or a player very close to it.

Something else to consider, is that Abbrederis is a very accomplished punt returner. A role that is currently unfilled for Seattle.

Other players who similarly exhibit a strong ability to use subtle/savvy tricks to get open: Deion Branch, Brian Hartline, Wes Welker and Larry Fitzgerald. I didn't necessarily compare Abbrederis to those guys, because I didn't find them similar in other aspects like Brown. Welker is much quicker and is a slot guy. But Welker's toolbag to get separation at the very last moment is something that I see Abbrederis learning to do and expect he will master it in the same way.

Fitzgerald is a masterful route runner, but he also has physical tools that Abbrederis will never have. However if I limit the comparison to just the ability to run routes in a way to gain advantage over defenders -- then Abbrederis and Fitz match very well.

Ultimately I see Antonio Brown when I see Abbrederis. That's no chopped liver.

Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs

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