Fox NFL crew - Tells it like it is.

It's baffling that people still want this particular team to be run first with what we have. Most are crying about how the D got gassed because of being on the field so long, yet fail to see that it would have been ten times worse continually going three and out rushing for 3 yards a drive. That TOP that is being made the focal point, would have been even further skewed in the Titans favor. Russell Wilson and the Seahawks passing game gave us our ONLY shot at winning yesterday, the defense "crapped the bed". No excuses, they need to play better or we need to start using more of the salary on the offensive side of the ball.

brimsalabim":76n7xv11 said:

Lynch left because he was getting beat to death behind Pete & John's direction of the offensive line.

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Ehh, that's not really true. He had been talking about saving his money and retiring early for years, and if he hadn't retired when he did the Hawks would have cut him anyway.

vin.couve12":3nlgrbu7 said:

Ask yourselves though....to what end do you make everything about Russell? And why? Superbowls ain't good enough for you? It's like you'd rather worship a player than do what's best for the team.

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That's a wildly silly misperception.
Offensively?, you make the Quarterback your TOP PRIORITY, and in this case, you make it about Russell Wilson because he's just about the only consistency we have on Offense.
He Ran the ball for more yards that our RB's, and he did it in spite of the shitty Pass Protection and nonexistent Run Blocking.
His overthrows are frustrating, but that's the results you get when the O-Line doesn't even slow down the wave of Defenders....Those hits, & hurries + being knocked down at nearly every snap, start taking their toll.......NO QUARTERBACK is going to flourish under those conditions.
Calling the O-Line "Shitty" is a compliment at this juncture.
Where are all of Wilson's outlet Targets?...Baldwin?, check....Graham?, check. HE NEEDS MORE HELP.
The Run sets up the Passing, The Passing helps to set up the Run.....We are down to ONE facet, we need for BOTH to be working, and they are not.
You're right though, you "Do What's Best For The Team", and so far, that'd be Russell Wilson.....check.

Cyrus12":2iymby45 said:

That's because Lynch was our offence...everyone else just climbed on his back. We have not replaced that here

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Lynch was only a part of why our run game excelled 4-5 years ago.

- MUCH better line, especially the kind of nasty dudes like Okung, Carp, Sweezy, Breno, etc.
- Much better running Russell. Let's face it, Russell's only about 75% of his quickness and speed of his first two years
- Playcalling. Bevell and Pete called a lot more run/play action and option with Russell back then.

Now the line stinks, no Beastmode and a diminished running Russell. That all spells doom for the run game.

So my question isn't why aren't we a successful run team anymore, that's easy to explain as I just did above. My question is why does Pete continue to try?

It's that philosophical stubbornness that's holding back this offense, not the personnel.

vin.couve12":26burlbt said:

Ask yourselves though....to what end do you make everything about Russell? And why? Superbowls ain't good enough for you? It's like you'd rather worship a player than do what's best for the team.

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I get that your frustrated and venting but I have yet to see what exactly you think they should have done/could be doing right now.
Do you want Russel gone? Do you feel he is the problem? Do you feel they made the wrong moves in the offseason?
Pete said all offseason they wanted to reestablish their physicality and their run game.
Its not like the team philosophy has changed. They are merely turning to the only thing that works in this offense right now DESPITE their offseason efforts.
I'm just not getting what it is you think they ought to be doing or should have done.

So it's impossible for us to come out and maybe pass a bit more in the first half, extend some drives, and soften up the defense.....then run more in the 2nd half ? Use the pass to open up the run. It worked for Holmgren.

Oh, and the last half of 2015. We can't win a Superbowl that way ? It's worked for the Patriots.

Winning football is about using your personnel and playing to their strengths. Put them in the best position to succeed.

We're trying to ram a square peg in a round hole. We can't win football games right now STARTING THE GAME pounding the rock. We're not built for it. Maybe the OL gets better as the season goes on, but I don't understand why we have to hang 4 losses on the team in the mean time.

Then again, Tennesse was more about the defense screwing up. Call it what you want. Cite all the Wilson stats you want. Name me the teams that have a winning percentage when allowing 33 points in a game.

Hawks46":21qvxs7x said:

Then again, Tennesse was more about the defense screwing up. Call it what you want. Cite all the Wilson stats you want. Name me the teams that have a winning percentage when allowing 33 points in a game.

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That's true, but you can't keep leaving your defense, and an older defense at that on the field for double the snaps cause you're so damn ineffective on offense the entire first halves of games..............especially on the road..................especially on the road in the heat.

Defense was fine in the first half, in fact they were great. But due to the offense being again horrible the defense was worn out by the middle of the 3rd quarter.

Not saying they didn't have their own issues, they did. But fatigue is a major problem for those overruns, gap assignment problems, and missed tackles. That's on the offense.

Natethegreat":z8b427k2 said:

vin.couve12":z8b427k2 said:

Ask yourselves though....to what end do you make everything about Russell? And why? Superbowls ain't good enough for you? It's like you'd rather worship a player than do what's best for the team.

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I get that your frustrated and venting but I have yet to see what exactly you think they should have done/could be doing right now.
Do you want Russel gone? Do you feel he is the problem? Do you feel they made the wrong moves in the offseason?
Pete said all offseason they wanted to reestablish their physicality and their run game.
Its not like the team philosophy has changed. They are merely turning to the only thing that works in this offense right now DESPITE their offseason efforts.
I'm just not getting what it is you think they ought to be doing or should have done.

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Already covered all that in this thread. I'm also not venting. You might perceive that if you're more a Wilson fan than a Hawk fan, but that would not be my problem. I played football for a long time and know what works and what doesn't and how you get to where you need to be. The root problem is the belief that RW is something he isn't, but we can still fix that by reverting to our old style even without Marshawn. Again, neithet RW nor Lynch are as important as what I'm talking about.

Hawks46":238l0xd7 said:

So it's impossible for us to come out and maybe pass a bit more in the first half, extend some drives, and soften up the defense.....then run more in the 2nd half ? Use the pass to open up the run. It worked for Holmgren.

Oh, and the last half of 2015. We can't win a Superbowl that way ? It's worked for the Patriots.

Winning football is about using your personnel and playing to their strengths. Put them in the best position to succeed.

We're trying to ram a square peg in a round hole. We can't win football games right now STARTING THE GAME pounding the rock. We're not built for it. Maybe the OL gets better as the season goes on, but I don't understand why we have to hang 4 losses on the team in the mean time.

Then again, Tennesse was more about the defense screwing up. Call it what you want. Cite all the Wilson stats you want. Name me the teams that have a winning percentage when allowing 33 points in a game.

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No. Passing to set up the run is exactly what we've been doing. I'm assuming you've watched these last 3 games. The 9ers game is the only game we've actuallu been able to run it out.

Thus far, our best drives have had good run pass mixture. When we throw 3 times on a row...it's 3rd and 10 and we're out as apposed to 3rd and 5 or less amd an extended drive.

We are doing exactly what you're talking about and it's failing.

To clarify, the second half of 2015's success was due more to a shockingly non-stupid run of play calling than anything else. Our receivers may have run more quick and short routes in those eight games than they did in the entire 16 games before AND 16 games after that stretch. Why we haven't gone back to it is beyond me. It also especially helps to nullify a horrific O-line.

We also ran the ball 50.56% of the time then.

vin.couve12":198v66ly said:

Natethegreat":198v66ly said:

vin.couve12":198v66ly said:

Ask yourselves though....to what end do you make everything about Russell? And why? Superbowls ain't good enough for you? It's like you'd rather worship a player than do what's best for the team.

Click to expand...

I get that your frustrated and venting but I have yet to see what exactly you think they should have done/could be doing right now.
Do you want Russel gone? Do you feel he is the problem? Do you feel they made the wrong moves in the offseason?
Pete said all offseason they wanted to reestablish their physicality and their run game.
Its not like the team philosophy has changed. They are merely turning to the only thing that works in this offense right now DESPITE their offseason efforts.
I'm just not getting what it is you think they ought to be doing or should have done.

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Already covered all that in this thread. I'm also not venting. You might perceive that if you're more a Wilson fan than a Hawk fan, but that would not be my problem. I played football for a long time and know what works and what doesn't and how you get to where you need to be. The root problem is the belief that RW is something he isn't, but we can still fix that by reverting to our old style even without Marshawn. Again, neithet RW nor Lynch are as important as what I'm talking about.

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I went through your posts and this quote is the closest thing I can see where you have said what you want the team to do.

"That's not quite what was happening, but yes you can. We used to bang until it broke and that's exactly what the Titans just did."

So your solution is to run three times(or at least on first and second down I'm assuming) regardless of the results. I'm not entirely opposed to this but you have to have some balance and deception in your play calling.

Also enough with the Wilson fanboy nonsense. I was merely trying to get to the point of what you were getting at. I do think it would be crazy to get rid of Wilson as a good QB is critical to a teams success. But by no means am I a fan of Wilson and not the team.
I have been a fan of the Seahawks through all the years including the years of dominating defensive teams with horrific QB play on through the Holmgren years till now.

RolandDeschain":3rrvsrvg said:

To clarify, the second half of 2015's success was due more to a shockingly non-stupid run of play calling than anything else. Our receivers may have run more quick and short routes in those eight games than they did in the entire 16 games before AND 16 games after that stretch. Why we haven't gone back to it is beyond me. It also especially helps to nullify a horrific O-line.

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Exactly....After what Pete said about " some changes with the Offense this week", that's what I was hoping that we were going to see in this game....Judging from the diving to the ground by our O-Linemen, it's apparent that it wasn't the kind of changes he was talking about.

vin.couve12":ply1gr37 said:

"What was the identity of their Superbowl teams? Run the football and play defense. They've gone away from it."

"Throwing tje football 49 times is not what you want out of Russell Wilson. You want to run the football and let Russell Wilson make plays with his legs and extend drives and keep that defense off the field."

"That defense is wearing down in the 2nd halves due to being on the field so much."

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.
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Now, we obviously had to pass the ball a lot since the mid 3rd, but up until then we were still passing the ball too much. The belief of Russell Wilson, however, has changed this team and not for the better. WILSON IS NOT THE SEAHAWKS. Wilson's needing to prove this or that shouldn't cost the team their winning identity, but it very clearly has.

We are no longer those Seahawks. We are now Russell Wilson's Seahawks. Congrats! You got your wish. We can win the next 11 games and make the playoffs, but we will win no more superbowl games as a passing, all about RW offense.

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But living in the past is helpful how? Things change. The personnel changes. You have to adapt. Talking about running the ball only really works if you have a really great back or can run block well. If your personnel is more suited to spreading out more than do it get the lead and run late to kill clock. The running first to set up the pass only works if you can run.

Stop using extreme arguments so you can get Wilson's back or whatever the hell nonsense you're trying to do. I am not a fan of running the ball 3 times in a row. The concept of "mixture" goes back a long ways and still holds true to this day. That coupled with a balanced approach is the most successful recipe in football history for a reason.

There are anomalies due to QBs like Brady, but that is few and far between and RW is NOT that guy and never will be.

erik2690":3ay9cq2k said:

vin.couve12":3ay9cq2k said:

"What was the identity of their Superbowl teams? Run the football and play defense. They've gone away from it."

"Throwing tje football 49 times is not what you want out of Russell Wilson. You want to run the football and let Russell Wilson make plays with his legs and extend drives and keep that defense off the field."

"That defense is wearing down in the 2nd halves due to being on the field so much."

.
.
.
Now, we obviously had to pass the ball a lot since the mid 3rd, but up until then we were still passing the ball too much. The belief of Russell Wilson, however, has changed this team and not for the better. WILSON IS NOT THE SEAHAWKS. Wilson's needing to prove this or that shouldn't cost the team their winning identity, but it very clearly has.

We are no longer those Seahawks. We are now Russell Wilson's Seahawks. Congrats! You got your wish. We can win the next 11 games and make the playoffs, but we will win no more superbowl games as a passing, all about RW offense.

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But living in the past is helpful how? Things change. The personnel changes. You have to adapt. Talking about running the ball only really works if you have a really great back or can run block well. If your personnel is more suited to spreading out more than do it get the lead and run late to kill clock. The running first to set up the pass only works if you can run.

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One, it's false that we can't run.

Two, eat your own words. We've been passing the ball 60% of the time since 2016 and our offense sucks. Not just sucks, but sucks mad bowls of Ds.

Three, once our OL started to gel in 2015 we were still at our best at a 50/50 run pass ratio.

2014 we ran it 53%of the time. I don't suggest we run it that much but balance isn't that difficult to ask for, aka sanity vs blindness.

Like sucks huge popcorn bowls of them.


Derpeederpeeder....well let's just make it worse then, by all means.

vin.couve12":xx9cczrg said:

Like sucks huge popcorn bowls of them.


Derpeederpeeder....well let's just make it worse then, by all means.

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You are referencing a year in which Wilson was hurt as some referendum moving forward? That seems rather silly right? If you aren't seeing that this particular offense moves the ball best when we spread out and give Wilson more options then I don't know what you are watching honestly. You keep referencing past years like everything has no variables beyond run/pass split %'s. Our line can't hold on these long developing max protect play actions. We are getting beat too quickly with 3 v 5s and 4 v 7s at the line. To counteract that you give Wilson more and quicker receiving options. Running 3 routes into 7 man coverage on 3 and 8's isn't getting it done.


This our first down passing offense this year:



Spread em out and let him find some one quick. It's worth trying.

Another interesting note from the splits is that both the early game (first 10 attempts) passing and rushing numbers have been quite bad but later attempts are way better. Small sample size but it leans towards the scripted stuff not working well.