Russell Wilson

So it's his fault they rarely block for him? :?

5 win team w/out him, period.

SoulfishHawk":1lrheodf said:

So it's his fault they rarely block for him? :?

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They block well enough to enable his second read probably about 80% of the time. More than that, is on him and Pete.

Matter of opinion I guess, swiss cheese O Line, all year long.

GeekHawk":100fiwfb said:

So much crow being self-served up in this thread, and so much blind RW hate. Made several of my brain cells self-destruct before I stopped reading. Problem with the self-serve crow is that when RW actually has a line these people will be either lurking exclusively, or sneaking onto his bandwagon.

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Ain't giving up MY seat on the Bandwagon to no wishy-washy Johnny-come-lately fans :mrgreen:

BigBill1945":3gkormh5 said:

I am impressed. You guys made some excellent points. I did not see anyone go off the rails with their analyses. From what I gather reading your comments is that it still comes down the O line, a running game and how Pete wants to use Russell. Being an old lineman and coaching the line I have my biases. I feel that games are won and loss on the line. That being said, I know I will take heat for this, but we got Jimmy Graham. He is a great receiver and probably pulled us out of a lot of jams this year with his TD catches. There is a price to pay. Pete was successful with the run game and I always had the impression he was a run first guy. Then he goes after Graham who cannot block. Add to this a line that has changed numerous times in the last two so much that one cannot keep track of the starters it is a recipe for disaster. If our line was better or coaching better on the line (make your choice) perhaps this would not have been an issue. We have had to go away from where our strength was ......the running game. When this happened, of course, Jimmy became more of an asset. I like Jimmy but Pete is going to have to make a choice. This is just me, I would rather have big good blocking tight end that can catch especially if we are going to run. Most of the teams are rushing guys from the outside to contain Russell. Whomever we place at tackles has to have mobility. Ifedi is more suited to be a guard than a tackle. IMO

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No heat from me...I happen to agree with everything you're saying, ESPECIALLY the part about Ifedi playing at GUARD.

GeekHawk":rqwmchoh said:

So much crow being self-served up in this thread, and so much blind RW hate. Made several of my brain cells self-destruct before I stopped reading. Problem with the self-serve crow is that when RW actually has a line these people will be either lurking exclusively, or sneaking onto his bandwagon.

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It’s not blind RW hate. What’s more disturbing is the people that see RW as having absolutely no faults or weaknesses. He does. I’m glad RW is our QB, but the man isn’t perfect.

hedgehawk":phskq8fa said:

It’s not blind RW hate.

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From you it's not. From one particular poster who I won't call out by name (but is obvious to anybody who reads this thread from end-to-end) it is. Blind RW hate, without reason.

RussB":z41i77jf said:

Depends on the offensive line. Wilson has had a bad o line for so long now that he is just used to bailing the pocket so much. He gets pressured instantly and has to run around and try to make some schoolyard stuff happen. He even does it when he doesnt have to and actually has a clean pocket.

He just needs a consistent o line where he can make reads from the pocket and needs to have a good offensive coordinator dialing up the plays and game planning to attack defenses. No more of this scramble BS its not successful long term they need an actual offensive system. His mobility will still come in handy though.

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I hope one day some of you extreme Homers will realize that RW plays a huge part in the issues with the offensive line. This year in particular we had a pretty decent line when it was Brown/Joeckel/Britt/Pocic/Ifedi and RW still played poorly. I remember being at the stadium in the season finale against Arizona watching Brown look towards the sideline towards the coaching staff with his hands in the air basically saying "how do you expect me to block for this guy." Wilson can't see over the line. He scrambles out of the pocket early and goes wide so he can survey the field. A lineman that doesn't have a clue where his QB is at is a problem. There's a reason Brown's normal protection numbers dwindled while trying to protect RW. As long a RW is QB Seattle will be the place O-Lineman come to die. His height is a major downfall and the league has figured out how to restrain him. There's a reason most big time FA lineman have passed on coming here. That will not change. I used to be a huge RW fan but the last year and a half have opened my eyes greatly. I only hope this new coaching staff can find a way to make him a better pocket passer and to trust his protection. Otherwise Seahawks are going no where near another championship.

MontanaHawk05":60lf0d2o said:

[
We can keep griping about the line all we want, but the fact remains that problems on the line are actually one of the easiest personnel deficiencies in pro football to work around, and if the coaching staff doesn't do it, that's on them, not the line.

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I don't know that they are one of the easiest personnel deficiencies to work around. If you have Tom Brady and Peyton Manning then yes. But in the Eagles game and for a stretch in 2015 it did seem that Russell was able to operate in a quick(er) passing offense. I read analysis - wish I remembered where - where the approach was used vs the Eagles because they are a man-coverage team so rub routes were available. Presumably against predominantly zone teams your quick passes can get you in more trouble, e.g. a passing lane opens for Wilson but as the receiver flashes by he has to wonder if he's missing a safety or LB lurking just out of his window.

The best sample set is end of 2015 and it's really tough when that's all we have to go on. Defenses saw what happened in Wilson's first year with the read/zone and it never rose to the same effectiveness. I'm not prepared to say that opposing defenses didn't see something in 2015 that they buckled down on.

But even acknowledging the limited sample size, the deep ball obsession just feels so...Pete.

I would modify your last sentence just a bit. I would say that the coaching staff can have a deep-bomb offense or a crappy cheap OL, but they can't have both. If Pete is allergic to quick passing, and only wants to pound the rock and take deep shots off of PA, then he can't simultaneously be el cheapo on the OL. It's perfectly valid for Pete to want to run his offense a certain way, but if he's going to be inflexible about quick passing then he'll have to be flexible somewhere else, e.g. the cap and the OL.

The way he's been doing it the last few years has just been schizophrenic self-sabotage on offense.

hawk45":3dlssiug said:

I would modify your last sentence just a bit. I would say that the coaching staff can have a deep-bomb offense or a crappy cheap OL, but they can't have both. If Pete is allergic to quick passing, and only wants to pound the rock and take deep shots off of PA, then he can't simultaneously be el cheapo on the OL. It's perfectly valid for Pete to want to run his offense a certain way, but if he's going to be inflexible about quick passing then he'll have to be flexible somewhere else, e.g. the cap and the OL.

The way he's been doing it the last few years has just been schizophrenic self-sabotage on offense.

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Exactly.

But you'd be amazed at how much further the lessening of the OL's importance goes beyond just Manning. Pittsburgh's was average when they won the SB. Aaron Rodgers is one of the league's most sacked QBs and does his best work out of the pocket. If the OL mattered as much as most people think, Dallas should have won the last eight Super Bowls. Oakland had a great OL last year - didn't help. Cleveland's OL is good. Cleveland. It isn't magically enabling any QB's back there. The correlation isn't there.

Even David Carr's OL suddenly looked better once he was replaced by Matt Schaub, while Carr's sack rate followed him to two other teams almost precisely.

Whereas good QB + meh OL has proven over and over again to be a viable strategy. That's how the Seahawks won it all.

GeekHawk":fu8zhx17 said:

hedgehawk":fu8zhx17 said:

It’s not blind RW hate.

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From you it's not. From one particular poster who I won't call out by name (but is obvious to anybody who reads this thread from end-to-end) it is. Blind RW hate, without reason.

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Word. And I guess I get it, what red-blooded man.....or female DIDN'T want a crack at his fine ass wife?


*"Automatic, systematic, HIPNOTIC, Funky Fresh..."

:stirthepot:

But seriously, @Fade, you are often so spot on I feel like the team should find a way to pay you.

MontanaHawk05":2bu7hcco said:

Whereas good QB + meh OL has proven over and over again to be a viable strategy. That's how the Seahawks won it all.

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I would say that good QB + serviceable OL + HOF RB is how we won it all. The last couple years we ruled out good QB + horrific OL + meh RB as a viable option.

I think in a deep-threat offense without Lynch we're going to have to upgrade the OL formula from "meh" to "above avg run blocking, passable pass protection." Middle of the pack, in other words. The more Lynch-like a back we can find, the lower we can take the OL rating. But in a Pete Carroll offense I feel safe saying it can't fall to bottom 10 and probably not much further than 15.

I don't recall many saying Wilson is without faults, every QB in the league has weaknesses. Including Lord Brady.
I'll say it yet again, this team is LUCKY to win 5 games w/out him. The line has been a joke the last couple seasons. The offensive play calling has been pathetic and predictable. And this crap about can't see over the line? My goodness, change the record. :lol: Not being able to see how good he is, still after all this time is laughable. One thing that will never change, Russell Wilson will never be good enough for quite a few fans of this team. He has improvements to make like most QB's, and I suspect he will. The short passing game for one, but how often is it the pathetic play calling???

Scorpion05":32ca630t said:

Can we really stop with this Brady nonsense. Brady has all day to throw. When he doesn't, he folds like a cheap coward. When defenses play press coverage Brady still has to hold the ball. Brady has also never consistently been without a running game

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Brady will also throw the ball in the ground if its not there. Meanwhile Russell will run for his life trying to make magic happen. And Either magic will happen...OR he gets sacked for 15 yards and the series is dead and the OC gets another excuse over why the offense couldn't be called.

hawk45":9c3a24pi said:

MontanaHawk05":9c3a24pi said:

Whereas good QB + meh OL has proven over and over again to be a viable strategy. That's how the Seahawks won it all.

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I would say that good QB + serviceable OL + HOF RB is how we won it all. The last couple years we ruled out good QB + horrific OL + meh RB as a viable option.

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Fair.

MontanaHawk05":3baiekfh said:

hawk45":3baiekfh said:

MontanaHawk05":3baiekfh said:

Whereas good QB + meh OL has proven over and over again to be a viable strategy. That's how the Seahawks won it all.

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I would say that good QB + serviceable OL + HOF RB is how we won it all. The last couple years we ruled out good QB + horrific OL + meh RB as a viable option.

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Fair.

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Yeah the defense had nothing to do with it. :stirthepot:

Had someone on another board make an interesting comment along the lines of what if the new Offensive crew comes in and then decides RW is overrated? (This poster is of that view so certainly a bias there)

It does add another layer to this whole thing.

I'm hoping RW gets a half-second more pocket time consistently, and then learns to release just a half-second faster as well. This scenario would be aided greatly with a legit run threat which RW has not had to work with for far too long...(besides himself being the primary run threat of course)

Todd Haley is available.

Let's get Haley in here for some offensive side spot and if/when Shottenheimer fails/gets let go you move Haley to OC and he'll help Wilson.

TheLegendOfBoom":mfwudeml said:

Todd Haley is available.

Let's get Haley in here for some offensive side spot and if/when Shottenheimer fails/gets let go you move Haley to OC and he'll help Wilson.

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Todd Haley would be a great fit for RW,

Todd Haley was brought to Pittsburgh to fix Big Ben from holding the ball to long. They butted heads at first, but it worked, and he became a better QB because of Haley.

PC already made his choice though so.........Not happening.