Poll: Trade Russ for draft picks?

Seymour · Feb 20, 2018

bmorepunk":760eeiw7 said:
The top 15 cap hits for QBs (before the Kirk Cousins sweepstakes and whatever craziness might happen with Brees and the Vikings QBs) are all 19 million or more. Wilson's is almost 24. The top 19 are still 16 million or more. And that includes Glennon, Tannehill, and Bortles. So the best any team has with a veteran, starting QB right now is 8 million in cap savings relative to Wilson.

The probability of hitting on a QB even when you can pick any given one isn't good. Ignoring last year's rookies because of a lack of time, Goff and Wentz seem to be doing really well. Winston and Mariotta are no Wilson. Then work your way back through the first round QBs through the next decade. I see six guys in there that are on Wilson's level or better. That's out of about 30 selections.

Even mediocre QBs are hard to come by; that's why a good to great QB will cost a lot. And Russell Wilson is not mediocre.

Wilson's deal was 4 years $87.6M. That is $21.9M per year average. Using his $24M cap number now is totally unfair. They pushed money back into his contract last year to bring in Brown. So it's only fair to judge Wilson at $22M, not the $24M cap hit thanks to Pete and John swinging for the fences last year.

Sgt. Largent · Feb 20, 2018

brimsalabim":1vxnvahy said:
I’d like to see him play somewhere where he is appriciated.

I think you're mistaking a couple knuckleheads on this forum for the general consensus of Hawk fans.

My guess is if the Times or a major poll was done, the percentage of fans who appreciate and love Russell would be well into the 80-90% range.

TwilightError · Feb 20, 2018

Seriously. No GM would ever do that.

Hawkfish · Feb 20, 2018

:stirthepot: :stirthepot: :stirthepot:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ZackMooreNFL/status/964622646561378305[/tweet]

Seymour · Feb 20, 2018

Sgt. Largent":3eojoepr said:
brimsalabim":3eojoepr said:

I’d like to see him play somewhere where he is appriciated.

Click to expand...

I think you're mistaking a couple knuckleheads on this forum for the general consensus of Hawk fans.

My guess is if the Times or a major poll was done, the percentage of fans who appreciate and love Russell would be well into the 80-90% range.

Exactly. In his "infinite wisdom", Donny Osmond speaks in tongues of volume 12.

kidhawk · Feb 20, 2018

Hawkfish":dnmts9wy said:
:stirthepot: :stirthepot: :stirthepot:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ZackMooreNFL/status/964622646561378305[/tweet]

Oddly enough, out of the 11 teams with more picks per year than Seattle, 6 of them (or the majority) have a LOWER winning percentage.

On the other end of the spectrum, 2 teams with top winning percentages (Colts / Broncos) are near the bottom in amount of picks per year.

As with all the statistical data out there, it doesn't work in a vacuum. There's so much more to what makes a team successful or not successful than any single statistic.

Sgt. Largent · Feb 20, 2018

kidhawk":2hu54gzv said:
As with all the statistical data out there, it doesn't work in a vacuum. There's so much more to what makes a team successful or not successful than any single statistic.

What the list tells me is that there's more than one way to win in the NFL.

You can lose for a long period of time, stockpile draft picks and then win (Rams, Titans), and you can also perennially pick at the bottom of the draft and still keep rolling (Packers, Steelers, Patriots).

The one common denominator is no matter where you pick in the draft, or how many picks you have you better have a good GM to manage it all and make the right decisions.........or else you end up like Cleveland with a bajillion picks and 16 losses.

All I know about Russell is this, he's a top 10 QB, and you don't let that go no matter the number of picks...........unless his replacement is already on the roster and ready to go.

kidhawk · Feb 20, 2018

Sgt. Largent":it2h06l8 said:
kidhawk":it2h06l8 said:

As with all the statistical data out there, it doesn't work in a vacuum. There's so much more to what makes a team successful or not successful than any single statistic.

Click to expand...

What the list tells me is that there's more than one way to win in the NFL.

You can lose for a long period of time, stockpile draft picks and then win (Rams, Titans), and you can also perennially pick at the bottom of the draft and still keep rolling (Packers, Steelers, Patriots).

The one common denominator is no matter where you pick in the draft, or how many picks you have you better have a good GM to manage it all and make the right decisions.........or else you end up like Cleveland with a bajillion picks and 16 losses.

All I know about Russell is this, he's a top 10 QB, and you don't let that go no matter the number of picks...........unless his replacement is already on the roster and ready to go.

Agreed. So many teams are looking for a single player to build around. We are uniquely lucky to have multiple players that could be listed in that team building category with Wilson, Wagner and Thomas. It's really a good "problem" to have. Replacing this type of talent can take years, if you are ever able to do so properly.

semiahmoo · Feb 20, 2018

Shanegotyou11":34afmo9x said:
Get a franchise QB. Wanna trade him. He has his short comings but goodness.

You said short... :lol: :lol: :lol:

bmorepunk · Feb 21, 2018

Last time these teams had a quality "franchise" QB comparable to or better than Russell Wilson:

Bills - 1996 (Jim Kelly)
Browns - 1993 (Bernie Kosar)
Vikings - 2004 (Daunte Culpepper)
Bears - ? (If you want to count Jay Cutler, then it's only been a couple of years. If not you probably have to go back to the 60s or 40s)
Chiefs - ? (They've had Smith, Cassel, and Green). If you don't think these dudes qualify you'd have to go back to Len Dawson
Redskins - 1993 (Mark Rypien...unless you think Kirk Cousins qualifies)
Cardinals - ? (Do you include the Warner period? Jake Plummer? Go all the way back to Neil Lomax?)
Jets - 1976 (Joe Namath - You could make a case for Vinny T or a couple of the other plug-ins here but I wouldn't put them in the same group as Wilson)
Dolphins - 1999 (Dan Marino)
Buccaneers - Never
Texans - Never (Watson was looking good, but it's going to take time to see if he will continue to)

If you take the Manning signing out, the Broncos have struggled at QB since Elway (1999).

If Mariotta continues to look more like this year's Mariotta than the previous two, you have to go back to McNair for the Titans.

I'm at a loss of what to do with the 49ers. Do you count Smith and/or Garcia? The Rams and Eagles might be out of the hole, but either Wentz or Goff could burn out hard in the next couple of years.

Quarterbacks are hard to come by. The price isn't just arbitrarily high.

chris98251 · Feb 21, 2018

bmorepunk":384cmg3j said:
Last time these teams had a quality "franchise" QB comparable to or better than Russell Wilson:

Bills - 1996 (Jim Kelly)
Browns - 1993 (Bernie Kosar)
Vikings - 2004 (Daunte Culpepper)
Bears - ? (If you want to count Jay Cutler, then it's only been a couple of years. If not you probably have to go back to the 60s or 40s)
Chiefs - ? (They've had Smith, Cassel, and Green). If you don't think these dudes qualify you'd have to go back to Len Dawson
Redskins - 1993 (Mark Rypien...unless you think Kirk Cousins qualifies)
Cardinals - ? (Do you include the Warner period? Jake Plummer? Go all the way back to Neil Lomax?)
Jets - 1976 (Joe Namath - You could make a case for Vinny T or a couple of the other plug-ins here but I wouldn't put them in the same group as Wilson)
Dolphins - 1999 (Dan Marino)
Buccaneers - Never
Texans - Never (Watson was looking good, but it's going to take time to see if he will continue to)

If you take the Manning signing out, the Broncos have struggled at QB since Elway (1999).

If Mariotta continues to look more like this year's Mariotta than the previous two, you have to go back to McNair for the Titans.

I'm at a loss of what to do with the 49ers. Do you count Smith and/or Garcia? The Rams and Eagles might be out of the hole, but either Wentz or Goff could burn out hard in the next couple of years.

Quarterbacks are hard to come by. The price isn't just arbitrarily high.

Cards - Jim Hart yes you include Warner, it wasn't a place holder fill in.
Chicago - Jim McMahon
Redskins - Joe Theisman, Doug Williams
Chief's did have Montana for a couple years and Dave Krieg. Admittedly they were true stop gap guys though.

jammerhawk · Feb 21, 2018

Stupid topic!

How can you be sure you’d find a franchise QB in the draft?

Look at Cleveland who has had X number of 1st round picks and has failed repeatedly to score a QB.

Trading Wilson is a dumb idea.

IndyHawk · Feb 21, 2018

jammerhawk":3pvu23nf said:
Stupid topic!

How can you be sure you’d find a franchise QB in the draft?

Look at Cleveland who has had X number of 1st round picks and has failed repeatedly to score a QB.

Trading Wilson is a dumb idea.

You cannot be sure of anything but this FO found Wilson right?
Cleveland cannot draft QB's obviously but that isn't everyone else.

KiwiHawk · Feb 21, 2018

IndyHawk":4tlzhn9m said:
jammerhawk":4tlzhn9m said:

Stupid topic!

How can you be sure you’d find a franchise QB in the draft?

Look at Cleveland who has had X number of 1st round picks and has failed repeatedly to score a QB.

Trading Wilson is a dumb idea.

Click to expand...

You cannot be sure of anything but this FO found Wilson right?
Cleveland cannot draft QB's obviously but that isn't everyone else.

How is Washington at finding their QB? How about the Jets? Pretty much everyone who doesn't have a top-tier QB is in the business of wasting massive resources trying to get one. SF just gave Garoppolo a franchise-QB contract after only a few games.

When we drafted Wilson he was not going to be the starter. Flynn was the projected starter and we'd see if Wilson could overtake Jackson for the backup role. That means the same brain trust that drafted Wilson brought in Matt Flynn to be our starter. The same Matt Flynn who is now playing for nobody in a league desperate for QBs.

Sgt. Largent · Feb 22, 2018

IndyHawk":11qbm1ql said:
jammerhawk":11qbm1ql said:

Stupid topic!

How can you be sure you’d find a franchise QB in the draft?

Look at Cleveland who has had X number of 1st round picks and has failed repeatedly to score a QB.

Trading Wilson is a dumb idea.

Click to expand...

You cannot be sure of anything but this FO found Wilson right?
Cleveland cannot draft QB's obviously but that isn't everyone else.

So find the QB, make sure that QB can play..............THEN this question won't be so ridiculous to some of us.

But you sure as heck don't trade away a franchise QB without his replacement already on the roster and ready to go. That's a recipe to be like half the other teams in the league, spending vital picks and resources on drafting QB's and FA busts year after year...........and even decade after decade, as we Hawk fans know VERY well.

IndyHawk · Feb 22, 2018

Sgt. Largent":dqyhafva said:
IndyHawk":dqyhafva said:

jammerhawk":dqyhafva said:

Stupid topic!

How can you be sure you’d find a franchise QB in the draft?

Look at Cleveland who has had X number of 1st round picks and has failed repeatedly to score a QB.

Trading Wilson is a dumb idea.

Click to expand...

You cannot be sure of anything but this FO found Wilson right?
Cleveland cannot draft QB's obviously but that isn't everyone else.

Click to expand...

So find the QB, make sure that QB can play..............THEN this question won't be so ridiculous to some of us.

But you sure as heck don't trade away a franchise QB without his replacement already on the roster and ready to go. That's a recipe to be like half the other teams in the league, spending vital picks and resources on drafting QB's and FA busts year after year...........and even decade after decade, as we Hawk fans know VERY well.

If we traded him for picks ..
Use those picks wisely on a QB/RB and whatever else we need..
I can see no reason why Davis (if we still have him) cannot start until
That said QB is ready.Who knows? Davis might suprise us like the
Vikings QB did.
I know counting on the FO to draft great is not a given by far but
looking at the insane numbers I am seeing for a QB ..I am not
a believer that "if everyone jumps off a bridge"....
The thing is how are you going to do this?You wait too long
and you get little or nothing for a QB because teams will try to force
you into paying the max(35-40m?) to someone who may have already
maxed out in all he can do and trends downhill from there.
You think he is going to sandlot his way out of trouble for 4-6 more
years?Learn to use a pocket of any kind?Be a leader?Audible?
Be more accurate in first half?
I would say lets wait and see what next year does but then I think
it has been 6 years already..
It is a tough situation and we will see how it goes.

chris98251 · Feb 22, 2018

IndyHawk":6tcqddpe said:
Sgt. Largent":6tcqddpe said:

IndyHawk":6tcqddpe said:

jammerhawk":6tcqddpe said:

Stupid topic!

How can you be sure you’d find a franchise QB in the draft?

Look at Cleveland who has had X number of 1st round picks and has failed repeatedly to score a QB.

Trading Wilson is a dumb idea.

Click to expand...

You cannot be sure of anything but this FO found Wilson right?
Cleveland cannot draft QB's obviously but that isn't everyone else.

Click to expand...

So find the QB, make sure that QB can play..............THEN this question won't be so ridiculous to some of us.

But you sure as heck don't trade away a franchise QB without his replacement already on the roster and ready to go. That's a recipe to be like half the other teams in the league, spending vital picks and resources on drafting QB's and FA busts year after year...........and even decade after decade, as we Hawk fans know VERY well.

Click to expand...

If we traded him for picks ..
Use those picks wisely on a QB/RB and whatever else we need..
I can see no reason why Davis (if we still have him) cannot start until
That said QB is ready.Who knows? Davis might suprise us like the
Vikings QB did.
I know counting on the FO to draft great is not a given by far but
looking at the insane numbers I am seeing for a QB ..I am not
a believer that "if everyone jumps off a bridge"....
The thing is how are you going to do this?You wait too long
and you get little or nothing for a QB because teams will try to force
you into paying the max(35-40m?) to someone who may have already
maxed out in all he can do and trends downhill from there.
You think he is going to sandlot his way out of trouble for 4-6 more
years?Learn to use a pocket of any kind?Be a leader?Audible?
Be more accurate in first half?
I would say lets wait and see what next year does but then I think
it has been 6 years already..
It is a tough situation and we will see how it goes.

Yes he can, he has in the past, but not here in Seattle, Pete has to trust him, Schottys offense depends on him being able to as well. If they don't we will look abysmal again after our plays are seen a few times and the surprise is out of the picture.

Sgt. Largent · Feb 23, 2018

IndyHawk":3gzo7jkm said:
Sgt. Largent":3gzo7jkm said:

IndyHawk":3gzo7jkm said:

jammerhawk":3gzo7jkm said:

Stupid topic!

How can you be sure you’d find a franchise QB in the draft?

Look at Cleveland who has had X number of 1st round picks and has failed repeatedly to score a QB.

Trading Wilson is a dumb idea.

Click to expand...

You cannot be sure of anything but this FO found Wilson right?
Cleveland cannot draft QB's obviously but that isn't everyone else.

Click to expand...

So find the QB, make sure that QB can play..............THEN this question won't be so ridiculous to some of us.

But you sure as heck don't trade away a franchise QB without his replacement already on the roster and ready to go. That's a recipe to be like half the other teams in the league, spending vital picks and resources on drafting QB's and FA busts year after year...........and even decade after decade, as we Hawk fans know VERY well.

Click to expand...

If we traded him for picks ..
Use those picks wisely on a QB/RB and whatever else we need..
I can see no reason why Davis (if we still have him) cannot start until
That said QB is ready.Who knows? Davis might suprise us like the
Vikings QB did.
I know counting on the FO to draft great is not a given by far but
looking at the insane numbers I am seeing for a QB ..I am not
a believer that "if everyone jumps off a bridge"....
The thing is how are you going to do this?You wait too long
and you get little or nothing for a QB because teams will try to force
you into paying the max(35-40m?) to someone who may have already
maxed out in all he can do and trends downhill from there.
You think he is going to sandlot his way out of trouble for 4-6 more
years?Learn to use a pocket of any kind?Be a leader?Audible?
Be more accurate in first half?
I would say lets wait and see what next year does but then I think
it has been 6 years already..
It is a tough situation and we will see how it goes.

Sorry, "use picks wisely" doesn't work for me. We have one of the best GM's in the league, and our hit rate on picks is at best just over 50%. Too many misses, especially over the past 3-4 years.

I'm especially not trusting that tactic for the QB position.

randomation · Feb 23, 2018

TwistedHusky":2599mxel said:
The problem is that without Wilson we are a 5 win team.

WITH Wilson, we are a 9 win team.

Is the 30M a year worth 4 extra wins? Especially if we are not making the playoffs?

More importantly, with what Cousins is going to do to the QB market - what would it even cost to get a reasonable but more limited QB? You might not be saving as much as you think if you traded Wilson. Because whatever you bring in to replace him is going to cost you and this is the FO that likes to give guys like Lacey 8M and Joekel 9M.

I don't for a minute believe that Wilson is worth $30M a year. But if a crappier QB costs you 15M a year...

What 5 games do you think we actually win without Russ this year lol?

adeltaY · Feb 23, 2018

randomation":16suyd2t said:
TwistedHusky":16suyd2t said:

The problem is that without Wilson we are a 5 win team.

WITH Wilson, we are a 9 win team.

Is the 30M a year worth 4 extra wins? Especially if we are not making the playoffs?

More importantly, with what Cousins is going to do to the QB market - what would it even cost to get a reasonable but more limited QB? You might not be saving as much as you think if you traded Wilson. Because whatever you bring in to replace him is going to cost you and this is the FO that likes to give guys like Lacey 8M and Joekel 9M.

I don't for a minute believe that Wilson is worth $30M a year. But if a crappier QB costs you 15M a year...

Click to expand...

What 5 games do you think we actually win without Russ this year lol?

Assuming we had a mediocre QB, we would PROBABLY have lost:

Texans (don't see a backup/meh QB putting up 480 total yards)
@ Cards (Wilson special to Doug was huge in that game)
@ Rams (barely won that one as is)
Eagles (Wilson was FIRE that game even if he didn't put up a ton of yards)
Niners (the TD throw was another Wilson special)

So I think we could have won the Colts, Giants, @ Niners, and Dallas games without Russ. Shoot, even the Giants game was fantastic from Russ so who knows about that?

Poll: Trade Russ for draft picks?

Trade Russ to the Browns for the 1st/4th picks and Browns 1st round pick next year

Absolutely

Absolutely not

I'd think about it

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