MB on Pete Carroll

twisted_steel2

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Some of the radio guys were talking about Bennett, was it the Danny, Dave and Moore show maybe?

Anyway they were saying can you imagine a young hungry MB who was just scratching and clawing to even make a 53....

Seeing himself years and years in the future, with Super Bowl rings, an established star making 10 million a year, part of one of the best defenses of all time, and a coach who always defended him..... just sitting in the back of the room, ignoring the coaches and reading a book, disrespecting the program.

Just an interesting perspective. I bet that 23 year old MB would be shocked and disappointed.
 

Seanhawk

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twisted_steel2":2s4izroo said:
Some of the radio guys were talking about Bennett, was it the Danny, Dave and Moore show maybe?

Anyway they were saying can you imagine a young hungry MB who was just scratching and clawing to even make a 53....

Seeing himself years and years in the future, with Super Bowl rings, an established star making 10 million a year, part of one of the best defenses of all time, and a coach who always defended him..... just sitting in the back of the room, ignoring the coaches and reading a book, disrespecting the program.

Just an interesting perspective. I bet that 23 year old MB would be shocked and disappointed.

Similar things were said about Sherm when he complained about younger players being given looks. Imagine what rookie Sherm would say about veteran Sherm saying this:

"I think at the end of the day it just became an issue of devaluing core players, players that are playing at a high level and really being curious about younger players and curious about the unknown," he continued. "They say, 'Maybe this guy's going to be the next guy,' instead of saying, 'Hey, you have Hall of Fame talents in your secondary. How about you ride this out.' It'd be like Pittsburgh saying, 'Troy Polamalu is great, but let's figure out what this guy behind him has.'"
 

Cyrus12

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Maybe if I hear more of this from a player I respected and valued the opinion of I would put more stock into it.
 

hawk45

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Popeyejones":15jqqi7y said:
He just errs very far to the "let the players be themselves"/"anything goes" side of the leadership equation, and has never seemed to have any desire to balance that "loving mother" style out with "stern father" moments. That works perfectly fine when everything is working, but when things get more challenging everything implodes.

I mean yeah, that Bennett is reading a book while his coach is conducting a team meeting doesn't look good for Bennett, but it's insane that he didn't get kicked out of the meeting and chewed out the first time he tried to pull that stunt. Essentially, from P.C. Bennett learned that he could completely disregard his coach when he felt like it without any consequences.

This is all 100% true. Pete is the quintessential player's coach, and being at the far end of that spectrum his teams are prone to discipline problems and descent into circus.

This is, of course, offset by the positive effects of his coaching style and ability. My perrspective is, Pete has had a single bad year - last year - where a bad kicker decision and a very high amount of injuries were by far IMO the largest factors in the lack of success. The circus has been here since Pete got here: Marshawn flipping off Bevell and not coming out of the locker room, Sherman being emo to reporters and on national TV, the list goes on. Yet in all the years without a ton of injuries we have been Superbowl contenders.

I interpret his actions this offseason as addressing the injury situation by getting rid of players that are either old like Bennett or have injury concerns that call their cap hit into question, like Sherman. I don't see the case for his actions being about jettisoning players who are disruptive. He's proven that he is FINE with disruption time and time again, and so are his teams. The disruption is negative, but is outweighed by the rest. So he feels and I can't argue with his line of thinking based on the success we've had.

So I'll absolutely go along with Pete-coached teams being a circus. Where I won't go is concluding that the circus outweighs the benefits of his approach. Not yet. I simply have not yet seen a talented, relatively injury free team fail to perform in Seattle to this point.
 

twisted_steel2

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Something to consider too, we dont know how the coaches and other veterans responded to MB reading during meetings. Right?

All we have is Bennett talking about it. Has anyone else said anything? Coaches, other players? He might have gotten called out during or later..... we dont know.

Maybe Im wrong here.
 

ivotuk

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I think it's pathetic. Pete and John treated MB better than any other Head Office would have, giving him big contracts and supporting him in his en-devours outside of football, and this is how he repays them.

Reading a book in a meeting in stabbing Pete in the back. There are 60 plus players in there, many young ones, and they are looking at a Senior player snubbing their head coach.

And blaming everything on one play is ridiculous. They're saying that there was no responsibility anywhere else for that loss than Darrell Bevell. That's immature. And then hanging on to that years later as if it's the end of the world, using it as an excuse to give the Coaches, and ultimately the rest of the teams and fans a big middle finger, is selfish and childish.

Mind your own business, and stop throwing blame for things you don't like at others. These guys are multimillionaires, some with generational wealth that fans will never see. Act like a professional. :34853_doh:
 

chris98251

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A lot of you act like he wasn't listening, I spent years reading and doing other work during lectures with a separate note pad for things of interest. Just because he was reading a book does not mean he wasn't listening. Some people can do more then one thing at once.

Yeah some teachers would pull the "what did I just say " card, when I repeated it they would get more pissed then if they had just let it go, they made themselves look like a idiot in front of everyone rather then ask me off to the side or on a break.

I will say appearance wise it may look like he was distracting himself, but if he wasn't calling attention to it and it didn't screw up his performance where was the damage done. Not everyone can do it granted, but chastising him not knowing this was the case is more about peoples want of control and taking it as a insult then the actual facts possibly.
I will also throw in there are some prejudices involved based on several opinions in other posts due to his demonstrations and this is just throwing more gas on the fire.
 

hawkfan68

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chris98251":ir68aww5 said:
A lot of you act like he wasn't listening, I spent years reading and doing other work during lectures with a separate note pad for things of interest. Just because he was reading a book does not mean he wasn't listening. Some people can do more then one thing at once.

Maybe...he was listening when Pete told him to jump offsides. He is an all pro at that. :sarcasm_off:
 

chris98251

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hawkfan68":2rm729sw said:
chris98251":2rm729sw said:
A lot of you act like he wasn't listening, I spent years reading and doing other work during lectures with a separate note pad for things of interest. Just because he was reading a book does not mean he wasn't listening. Some people can do more then one thing at once.

Maybe...he was listening when Pete told him to jump offsides. He is an all pro at that. :sarcasm_off:

He did sometimes and other times he moved on the ball if you watched closely, refs screwed up a lot as well.
 

hawkfan68

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chris98251":22ks9yck said:
hawkfan68":22ks9yck said:
chris98251":22ks9yck said:
A lot of you act like he wasn't listening, I spent years reading and doing other work during lectures with a separate note pad for things of interest. Just because he was reading a book does not mean he wasn't listening. Some people can do more then one thing at once.

Maybe...he was listening when Pete told him to jump offsides. He is an all pro at that. :sarcasm_off:

He did sometimes and other times he moved on the ball if you watched closely, refs screwed up a lot as well.

True. I just believe a player of Bennett's tenure should be a little more focused than that. Repeatedly making the same mistakes reeks of not giving a shit. It definitely hurt the team. While he was the culprit, the bigger issue lies with Pete not doing anything about it. That is a big failure on Pete's part. Part of the reason why this team is very undisciplined. Because of that they are one of leaders in league in penalties. In the past they have been able to overcome that ,but the last 3 seasons they have not.
 

scutterhawk

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I've lost a lot of respect for Michael "The Sniveler" Bennett & "Crybaby" Sherman.
IF you guys don't like the way someone COACHES, retire, and become "Richard Head" COACHES. :177692: , just take your SB Rings and have them sized for rectal implants.
 

mrt144

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ivotuk":1mg4gzzl said:
I think it's pathetic. Pete and John treated MB better than any other Head Office would have, giving him big contracts and supporting him in his en-devours outside of football, and this is how he repays them.

Reading a book in a meeting in stabbing Pete in the back. There are 60 plus players in there, many young ones, and they are looking at a Senior player snubbing their head coach.

And blaming everything on one play is ridiculous. They're saying that there was no responsibility anywhere else for that loss than Darrell Bevell. That's immature. And then hanging on to that years later as if it's the end of the world, using it as an excuse to give the Coaches, and ultimately the rest of the teams and fans a big middle finger, is selfish and childish.

Mind your own business, and stop throwing blame for things you don't like at others. These guys are multimillionaires, some with generational wealth that fans will never see. Act like a professional. :34853_doh:

I'll Devil's Advocate for Sherman on a speculative basis since obviously I don't know whats going on in that noodle of his:

1. There are so few inflection points for success, failure and change in the course of an NFL career. Whereas most people in the labor market accrue 200 odd days of work a year on which we have success and failures, NFL players have 16 days a year (maybe 20!) to use as a basis to measure themselves (and net future income considerations) and to achieve their overall work objective. A bad week at the beginning of the year usually doesn't have an impact on the rest of your year - in the NFL it's simply different.

2. With point 1 in mind, having one of those perilous few inflection points end in such an awful fashion stands out. Couple this with Sherman's already emotional (read that as passionate if you're being generous) personality and an innate desire to explain it all, Bevell winds up as the whipping boy in Sherman's mind. This doesn't even need to be an effort to save face for himself or the defensive unit - it could be a loss of trust, which could explain why it is all the more fiery for Sherman. He was beyond heart broken that the game was certainly lost with him as a passive bystander in the moment where it seemed like victory was almost assured after a seeming crescendo on Kearse's circus catch. To go from "My boys are gonna get this done" to "WHAT IN THE FRESH HELL" in a moment was visible from that sideline shot of him reacting to the play. Marshawn is a kindred spirit here and they feed off one another.

3. Bevell doesn't refute Sherman's irrational scapegoating through performance. In fact, the offense starts routinely validating that irrational belief. An irrational belief is still irrational even if there is coincidental support, right? But the offense does objectively deteriorate by most measures from they very start of '16 onward.

4. This in turn puts more on the back of Sherman et al to provide increasing support which they have trouble maintaining. So not only is the core of Sherman's ire driving the team into the ground, they're also making him look bad and the rest of the defense as well for not playing to peak levels. It's not just about Bevell and the offense at this point, it's about how the defense is struggling to be the rock they once were.

5. 2017 - injury ends a mediocre season with one of the most lamentable offenses Sherman has played with. Sherman feels robbed of glory despite his efforts, his pleading, his outspokenness and attention seeking. He feels totally validated that he was right and was ignored for reasons beyond comprehension to him. How could they ignore such an obvious problem?

6. Sherman signs with the Niners.

I'm going to add some additional speculation to the detriment of Sherman:

Sherman is a nerd at heart who wants to understand the metagame of football and who thinks he already does to a significant degree. This isn't inherently a bad thing but like many a nerd who enjoys the fruits of their intellectual labor, he became entitled and too big for his role on the team.

Speaking from personal experience as someone who has run afoul of managerial authority many times because I thought I knew better and acted on it impulsively, I can sense some sort of rationale and basis for Sherman's actions and attitude. But I got broken so many times over it that I questioned my own perceived wisdom. Being quick and clever and occasionally right in itself doesn't justify undermining other people's jobs.

One could argue that the trust relationship between coaches and players is what keeps open undermining at bay and thus clearly Sherman's was fragmented. But so what? At some point he either accepted he's on a ship of fools and he would do whatever he could wherever he could to make the best of it for everyone or could start putting shivs in people and get thrown overboard. And he had the option to get off the ship soon voluntarily as well.

But again, i think that the NCAA to NFL experience has a very different impact on how it shapes perspectives and outlooks. I am a firm believer that experience and situation are very much a part of identity and the idea of how one would or should act given dissimilar personal circumstance is hollow. Should Sherman be more mature than this? Good God yes. But given some inherent part of who he is coupled with where he got to be where he is, it's not a a huge mystery why he's acting immature. There's never really been iron to sharpen iron there. He's been exceptional his whole life, hasn't screwed it up with categorically foolish decisions or actions, hasn't borne a bad consequence of his exceptionalism...and faced with one of the biggest heartbreaks in something that obviously matters a ton to him as a bystander in the moment...I don't see how he would have handled it any different. Could have, sure, should have, absolutely, would have...naaaaaaah.

Bennett...man...reading a book during a team meeting is 10 year old defiance. No shame in telling coaches you are tuning out. That's what they're there for.

God what a long soap opera diatribe. Girl's Night for my wife and a full pipe really lend itself to verbosity something fierce.
 

hawknation2018

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I think certain speeches are intended for the younger players. Multitasking is very common in many different learning environments and in business, depending on the situation.

I haven't heard Bennett's comments to give them context. But I suspect this is being blown way out of proportion.
 

adeltaY

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Chris makes some fantastic points. We don't know the context of the book reading so who knows how much of a transgression it really ways?

Also, it'd be interesting to see what the reaction to this exact news would be if we kept Bennett and Sherm and had fired Pete. I'd be willing to bet that a fair number of people would be saying Pete's method got stale and it wasn't reaching the guys so it's good we axed him early. I think that people want to believe the moves made, regardless of what they are (within reason), will benefit the team and will thus rationalize it in whatever way they have to. I guess that's part of being a fan, but it kind of flies in the face of objectivity.
 

sc85sis

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Sherm and MB are two of the players who’ve taken the most (potentially undue) advantage of Pete being willing to let guys be themselves, yet they are now criticizing him. To me that says far more about them than it does about Pete.

Hopefully some day they’ll look back and realize just how lucky they were to play for a coach who truly gives a d*** about his players.
 

Fade

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--> Pete's lack of accountability with the coaching staff costing the team games. <--

90% of the teams problems, and a lot of Ls stem from this over the years. Not just 1 game.

It's not just about that 1 game, or that 1 play, but MULTIPLE GAMES. Which led to this behavior and the players acting out. Flipping birds, Reading books in meeting rooms, getting in multiple shouting matches with coaches, calling out coaches, shoving coaches, and who knows what else. (I may have forgotten some.)

It's hard to trust coaches when you know they constantly screw it up, and will screw it up again.

Pete fired, or let go damn near most of his coaching staff this off-season. And with good reason he had to. He couldn't just get rid of a couple of star players or he would of had a mutiny on his hands.

It was turning into a mutiny pretty much last year. Pete is trying to reel things back in, we'll see how it goes.

The Seahawks objectively had one of the worst coaching staffs in the league last year. They were getting out schemed & coached nearly every week. The players aren't stupid they knew it too. Losing Quinn & Norton took a toll on the Defense, and Cable+Bevell is about as bad as it can get for any Offense.

It will be better next year, but I am unsure of by how much.

I am not a fan of the Air Coryell that Schotty brings with him. Russ is built for the WCO, either Shanny's, or Andy Reed's variation, that is RW's fit. Russ is talented so he can make any system work, but what I don't understand is why Pete likes to make it harder on his players, instead of easier?

Norton is a wild card, I could see it working, he plays the bad cop, Pete plays the good cop. It seemed though down in OAK he was over-matched by opposing OCs so we'll see.

Solari is just a nice solid O-Line coach and a definite upgrade over Cable.

If they still can't run the ball, and the offense is a mess, I think Pete is done here. I am honestly not concerned with W-L record in 2018. I just want to see significant progress running the football. He has had 3 yrs to build a running game, and it just keeps getting worse. They couldn't run the ball before Lynch showed up, and they can't run the ball after Lynch left.
 

two dog

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sc85sis":kj9621jy said:
Sherm and MB are two of the players who’ve taken the most (potentially undue) advantage of Pete being willing to let guys be themselves, yet they are now criticizing him. To me that says far more about them than it does about Pete.

Hopefully some day they’ll look back and realize just how lucky they were to play for a coach who truly gives a d*** about his players.

Well said. MB and Sherm were making more money in one year than most
of us will make in a lifetime. Paying attention in meetings was a small thing to ask.

I still have my NFL Sherman 25 cap and have long been a fan of his play. Recent
events, however, make me wonder if Richard isn't kind of a lightweight. about 180
pounds of Richard packing 15 pounds of mouth.

MB is also a noted ratchet jaw but we can now add petty smallness to his resume'.
 

Cyrus12

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hawknation2018":10891ayx said:
I haven't heard Bennett's comments to give them context. But I suspect this is being blown way out of proportion.

It's funny we keep hearing this for the things Bennett has done.....Reading a book while your coach is talking is completely disrespectful. Not sure why it was no dealt with. Maybe concern if they punished him Bennett would turn it into something else. I have no doubt now that Bennetts constant offsides were to pass the coaching staff off. He definitely appears to be all about himself. Just happy he is gone.
 

SoulfishHawk

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Not bummed at all about Bennett. Not glad Sherm is gone, but it clearly was time to move on from these guys. Pete and John have had their backs big time. Yet they can't just move on. Weak.
Sherm and Bennett just sound like bitter, spoiled self-centered babies.
 

Boycie

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pittpnthrs":5ijkckzi said:
Ace_Rimmer":5ijkckzi said:
The only difference now is that we have a franchise QB in his prime to go along with this rebuild.

Pete not having first hand experience with the college players coming up and the absence of Scot McCloughan is also a difference. I think its a huge difference too.

This is true as well. Good point.
 
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