MB on Pete Carroll

Uncle Si":2tdjybfk said:

I still am shocked to hear players blame others in a game with so many moving parts. Seems fans have taken the same simplistic and narrow view.

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If it were only one or two, I could understand the simplistic view, but its been many. I think theres more to it than any of us really know.

pittpnthrs":p28w2npl said:

Uncle Si":p28w2npl said:

I still am shocked to hear players blame others in a game with so many moving parts. Seems fans have taken the same simplistic and narrow view.

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If it were only one or two, I could understand the simplistic view, but its been many. I think theres more to it than any of us really know.

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Yes.. the players were provided an environment in which they could excel.. then took full advantage of that environment to excel, won games and championships, then took it all for granted.

I completely agree the team didn't reach its potential. The only blame I would have for PC is that he should have changed the process that had worked so well in getting them to the level they were... but in doing that, its ignoring the same process that made the team as good as it was.

maybe thats the thing.. PC's process is not sustainable for long periods of time and needs to be reset every so often, if the players cannot handle the freedoms they are afforded for that long period of time.

Blaming PC over the players he made is honestly very naive, though, in my opinion. We saw the players revolt, openly, against a coaching staff that gave them the very environment they were revolting against. The whole thing is highly contrived, hypocritical and, in retrospect, immature.

NINEster":1nk5huv6 said:

Probably is far more accurate view of Carroll than you think.

You have two star players call out their former coach, so this isn't far fetched.

Let's just say this:

You'll never hear it from Wilson.

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You'll never hear it from Wilson because he recognizes the environment he's in. The other two took advantage of that environment to become the players they were, then put themselves above it.

It was a hell of a run, but the fact that a lot of guys got full of themselves is not a surprise. It's not just a Seattle or PC thing, it happens all over the league.

Uncle Si":3lmkfyqk said:

pittpnthrs":3lmkfyqk said:

Uncle Si":3lmkfyqk said:

I still am shocked to hear players blame others in a game with so many moving parts. Seems fans have taken the same simplistic and narrow view.

Click to expand...

If it were only one or two, I could understand the simplistic view, but its been many. I think theres more to it than any of us really know.

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I completely agree the team didn't reach its potential. The only blame I would have for PC is that he should have changed the process that had worked so well in getting them to the level they were... but in doing that, its ignoring the same process that made the team as good as it was.

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Im not even against the environment per se, but my biggest issue with Pete was the philosophy. I dont know why he continued to manage the team as a 3 quarter low scoring group that depends so much on the defense to hold and bail out the offense out for wins. Its baffling to me that we couldnt score more in the early part of games to help out during the span of a lot of those contests over the last 3 years, but we didnt. Its an attribute to the talent we had that we were actually as successful as we were. Thats why I say a lot of other coaches would or could have been more successful with our roster because they wouldnt have put up with such a lousy product and changed things up. Pete was stubborn to a fault. Purely my opinion though.

pittpnthrs":2aegz2e9 said:

Uncle Si":2aegz2e9 said:

pittpnthrs":2aegz2e9 said:

Uncle Si":2aegz2e9 said:

I still am shocked to hear players blame others in a game with so many moving parts. Seems fans have taken the same simplistic and narrow view.

Click to expand...

If it were only one or two, I could understand the simplistic view, but its been many. I think theres more to it than any of us really know.

Click to expand...

I completely agree the team didn't reach its potential. The only blame I would have for PC is that he should have changed the process that had worked so well in getting them to the level they were... but in doing that, its ignoring the same process that made the team as good as it was.

Click to expand...

Im not even against the environment per se, but my biggest issue with Pete was the philosophy. I dont know why he continued to manage the team as a 3 quarter low scoring group that depends so much on the defense to hold and bail out the offense out for wins. Its baffling to me that we couldnt score more in the early part of games to help out during the span of a lot of those contests over the last 3 years, but we didnt. Its an attribute to the talent we had that we were actually as successful as we were. Thats why I say a lot of other coaches would or could have been more successful with our roster because they wouldnt have put up with such a lousy product and changed things up. Pete was stubborn to a fault. Purely my opinion though.

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I guess I dont see it as "stubborn" as many, many coaches remain consistent to their path and process. Only a handful are considered flexible. In Pete's case, he put faith in players, both fed off that and won many games, and then it went downhill.

the offensive product went downhill right around that playoff game with MN. would've been nice to see adjustments (in comes Graham and a parade of RBs) but the plan had worked well before.

The idea that the talent bailed the team out again just ignores that this process had won many, many games before (really, right before Lynch went out).

I've no idea if PC can recapture the momentum with a new crop

Pete the tactician undermines Pete the strategist.

bigcc":1vqgysy4 said:

Fade":1vqgysy4 said:

If they still can't run the ball, and the offense is a mess, I think Pete is done here. I am honestly not concerned with W-L record in 2018. I just want to see significant progress running the football. He has had 3 yrs to build a running game, and it just keeps getting worse. They couldn't run the ball before Lynch showed up, and they can't run the ball after Lynch left.

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I'll take the wins over a good rushing game and a loss.... Some of the posts in this thread are ridiculous

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It is about Pete's philosophy at the end of the day. He has sacrificed building competent protection, and a proper offense around Russell Wilson. To instead run the football (poorly) and insulate himself with "Yes Man" coaches. I would expect them to be one of the best running teams in the league if they are going that route, as Pete has it very high on his priorities list at all times. Instead they have been horrible at it for 3 seasons in a row.

Pete can continue with his philosophy, but if it continues to have players square pegged round holed, Russ is getting killed, and they still can't run the ball. I am sorry, but Pete will be in trouble.

Let us hope they can run the ball this year. 4th times a charm.

mrt144":1hrdttxq said:

Pete the tactician undermines Pete the strategist.

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I'd change this to Pete the philosopher undermines Pete the strategist.

Let's be honest, what makes Pete such a great coach is also his worst enemy at times. He's one of the greatest motivators of all time, he knows how to relate to his players, make them feel empowered and unleashes that into what he wants to get out of that player.

BUT, his glass is always half full approach to not knowing when players are a lost cause and that everything is fixable because he's such an amazing motivator makes for all the drama and nonsense that has affected this team at times, and certainly the last couple of years.

Uncle Si":ioc32590 said:

the offensive product went downhill right around that playoff game with MN. would've been nice to see adjustments (in comes Graham and a parade of RBs) but the plan had worked well before.

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See, I felt it started early in 2015 until the 2nd half of that season when they opened the playbook and Russ went crazy. As soon as 2016 started off, it was right back to the old plan of running the offense like a healthy Lynch was back there when he wasnt. We never deviated from that either. And then there was last season. I have no stats to back up my claim and dont feel the need to look it up, but thats how I remember it going. Of course, I might be short sighted in doing so too. Either way, not trying to fight with you Si or anybody else, its just there's two camps to sit with and we chose different sides. The issues are obvious, its just who do you want to blame.

pittpnthrs":2twkfpr3 said:

I have no stats to back up my claim and dont feel the need to look it up

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pittpnthrs":2twkfpr3 said:

its just there's two camps to sit with and we chose different sides. The issues are obvious, its just who do you want to blame.

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I don't think you can combine those two snippets in the same posts and be convincing.

MontanaHawk05":22oge8dt said:

pittpnthrs":22oge8dt said:

I have no stats to back up my claim and dont feel the need to look it up

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pittpnthrs":22oge8dt said:

its just there's two camps to sit with and we chose different sides. The issues are obvious, its just who do you want to blame.

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I don't think you can combine those two snippets in the same posts and be convincing.

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Not trying to convince anybody. Just stated how I feel.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/bcondotta/status/988556783785467904[/tweet]

KitsapGuy":1dpvzd6v said:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/bcondotta/status/988556783785467904[/tweet]

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so basically Pete's saying Bennett is lying about the book but won't speculate as to his reasons behind it. Normally I'd just expect to hear no response at all, or a generic type response. To come out and say that he didn't bring a book to meetings when Bennett claims to have been looking at books during meetings says a lot about this IMO

EDIT: Found this link [urltargetblank]http://q13fox.com/2018/04/23/seattle-seahawks-pete-carroll-and-john-schneider-address-bennett-coaching-turnover-and-more-at-press-conference/[/urltargetblank] There's a brief video of Pete saying the above quote for those who want to hear how it was said.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/bcondotta/status/988561981295681536[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/DaChucksta32/status/988561637127938049[/tweet]

kidhawk":3s9kn1p4 said:

KitsapGuy":3s9kn1p4 said:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/bcondotta/status/988556783785467904[/tweet]

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so basically Pete's saying Bennett is lying about the book but won't speculate as to his reasons behind it. Normally I'd just expect to hear no response at all, or a generic type response. To come out and say that he didn't bring a book to meetings when Bennett claims to have been looking at books during meetings says a lot about this IMO

EDIT: Found this link [urltargetblank]http://q13fox.com/2018/04/23/seattle-seahawks-pete-carroll-and-john-schneider-address-bennett-coaching-turnover-and-more-at-press-conference/[/urltargetblank] There's a brief video of Pete saying the above quote for those who want to hear how it was said.

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After listening to it in context it sounds more like he was implying that he didn't believe him, but not outright saying he lied. The most telling part though is when he mentions about those who aren't here anymore.

Carroll is P'd Off.

Sgt. Largent":d27oq8xm said:

mrt144":d27oq8xm said:

Pete the tactician undermines Pete the strategist.

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I'd change this to Pete the philosopher undermines Pete the strategist.

Let's be honest, what makes Pete such a great coach is also his worst enemy at times. He's one of the greatest motivators of all time, he knows how to relate to his players, make them feel empowered and unleashes that into what he wants to get out of that player.

BUT, his glass is always half full approach to not knowing when players are a lost cause and that everything is fixable because he's such an amazing motivator makes for all the drama and nonsense that has affected this team at times, and certainly the last couple of years.

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Pretty spot on analysis. :2thumbs:

kidhawk":21nnqgbw said:

kidhawk":21nnqgbw said:

KitsapGuy":21nnqgbw said:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/bcondotta/status/988556783785467904[/tweet]

Click to expand...

so basically Pete's saying Bennett is lying about the book but won't speculate as to his reasons behind it. Normally I'd just expect to hear no response at all, or a generic type response. To come out and say that he didn't bring a book to meetings when Bennett claims to have been looking at books during meetings says a lot about this IMO

EDIT: Found this link [urltargetblank]http://q13fox.com/2018/04/23/seattle-seahawks-pete-carroll-and-john-schneider-address-bennett-coaching-turnover-and-more-at-press-conference/[/urltargetblank] There's a brief video of Pete saying the above quote for those who want to hear how it was said.

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After listening to it in context it sounds more like he was implying that he didn't believe him, but not outright saying he lied. The most telling part though is when he mentions about those who aren't here anymore.

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Just take it for what it is. Pete was finally fed up with MB and shipped him off because he didn't want to follow directions. Finally "Big Balls" Pete making plays. Thank God this team got it's head on right. That was possibly the greatest pre-draft press conference I've ever seen and makes me even a bigger fan.

Everyone should be excited for this coming year.

pittpnthrs":1kpiyqlw said:

rjas77":1kpiyqlw said:

With roughly eight minutes left in the 4th, the Offense had a 10 point lead. Truth is it was the D that lost SB 49

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The entire secondary was playing with injuries that most other players wouldnt have dreamed of playing with and the defense was minus a premier pass rusher in Avril and they still gave the offense a 10 point cushion against the greatest coach and QB ever. Damn them for expecting our offense to put up a point or two along the way. The game was lost when our coaching staff called the worst play in football history,,,,,,,on offense.

People seem and act surprised that Bennett and Sherm are talking about Pete for some reason. They wont be the last ones. Theres more to come. The person who said that SB49 destroyed this team was right. Thats on Pete.

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and yet...despite all you posted the O still had a 10 point lead with 8 minutes left. Let that sink in cuz if what you posted was what actually happened...the Patriots should have INCREASED their lead just before halftime instead of being tied.