DT Malik McDowell expected to be released

They didn't know a freak accident would occur before he ever suited up. That's a fair point.

Even still, it will go down as the worst draft choice on John Schneider's resume.

Any insights on why he still hasn’t been released?


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hawknation2018":2m3202h0 said:

They didn't know a freak accident would occur before he ever suited up. That's a fair point.

Even still, it will go down as the worst draft choice on John Schneider's resume.

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To some people, sure. If he never suits up then I think most are reasonable enough to view it as a N/A grade.

toffee":2m3202h0 said:

Any insights on why he still hasn’t been released?

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Because the original report was from McDowell's agent trying to create movement for his client. There's no benefit to the Seahawks to rushing on the decision as they don't need to pay him while he's on NFI.

hawknation2018":3g8mld42 said:

They didn't know a freak accident would occur before he ever suited up. That's a fair point.

Even still, it will go down as the worst draft choice on John Schneider's resume.

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Based on what??

This same kind of thing happened when we traded Ahman green for Fred Vinson. Vinson got hurt playing basketball, and Holmgren looked like an idiot. However, at the time of the trade, it made sense. Nice to have a crystal ball.

SeaWolv":302t4s8r said:

hawknation2018":302t4s8r said:

They didn't know a freak accident would occur before he ever suited up. That's a fair point.

Even still, it will go down as the worst draft choice on John Schneider's resume.

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Based on what??

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(1) McDowell's poor attitude and work ethic in college, (2) passing over several great prospects to select McDowell at No. 35, and (3) McDowell's ultimate Adjusted Value of zero in the NFL.

In terms of the failure to meet expectation, it is clearly the worst draft choice of Schneider's career.

There has to be more to this story. This whole thing seems to easy or pat.

hawknation2018":2bm0d9s9 said:

SeaWolv":2bm0d9s9 said:

hawknation2018":2bm0d9s9 said:

They didn't know a freak accident would occur before he ever suited up. That's a fair point.

Even still, it will go down as the worst draft choice on John Schneider's resume.

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Based on what??

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(1) McDowell's poor attitude and work ethic in college, (2) passing over several great prospects to select McDowell at No. 35, and (3) McDowell's ultimate Adjusted Value of zero in the NFL.

In terms of the failure to meet expectation, it is clearly the worst draft choice of Schneider's career.

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1. Based on rumor. Show me a credible source that verifies your assertions on attitude and work ethic.

2. McDowell was a top 10 pick before his draft stock fell. If you saw what he did his sophomore season then there’s no way you can say he’s not a value at 35.

3.The jury is still out. Too early to make any meaningful assessment.

SeaWolv":25do9i2n said:

hawknation2018":25do9i2n said:

SeaWolv":25do9i2n said:

hawknation2018":25do9i2n said:

They didn't know a freak accident would occur before he ever suited up. That's a fair point.

Even still, it will go down as the worst draft choice on John Schneider's resume.

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Based on what??

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(1) McDowell's poor attitude and work ethic in college, (2) passing over several great prospects to select McDowell at No. 35, and (3) McDowell's ultimate Adjusted Value of zero in the NFL.

In terms of the failure to meet expectation, it is clearly the worst draft choice of Schneider's career.

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1. Based on rumor. Show me a credible source that verifies your assertions on attitude and work ethic.

2. McDowell was a top 10 pick before his draft stock fell. If you saw what he did his sophomore season then there’s no way you can say he’s not a value at 35.

3.The jury is still out. Too early to make any meaningful assessment.

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He had 4.5 sacks as a sophomore. Poor work ethic and attitude are things that have dogged his reputation since HS. Look at his tape. He's constantly taking plays off.

Are you saying you expect that he would have turned out to be a poor selection (1 & 2), or that not playing (3) shows that he is a bad pick? Claiming both at the same time isn't very fair, as we haven't seen him on the field to assess his merits as a pick.

I'm not arguing that he is a good pick by any means, just that he is an unknown pick. Everybody hates unknown variables but it's better to have an honest unknown in my view than to use incomplete data to populate it with.

AgentDib":2mzc6yug said:

Are you saying you expect that he would have turned out to be a poor selection (1 & 2), or that not playing (3) shows that he is a bad pick? Claiming both at the same time isn't very fair, as we haven't seen him on the field to assess his merits as a pick.

I'm not arguing that he is a good pick by any means, just that he is an unknown pick. Everybody hates unknown variables but it's better to have an honest unknown in my view than to use incomplete data to populate it with.

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It's all about results; his AV production is zero. And at the time, his attitude and poor work ethic made him a risky pick.

He has poor judgment, and his poor judgment led to his unavailability. The worst case scenario occurred.

When you compare his expected AV against his actual AV, this will likely be the least productive draft choice John Schneider has had as GM.

I agree he was a risky pick, definitely a low floor high ceiling guy we gambled on in the second.

I'm not sure how you can say it's all about results though. That's the cardinal sin in statistics and does not square with the concept of risk. Uncertainty can cause good bets to fail and bad bets to pay out. Defensive drivers should still have auto insurance, the lottery is a bad bet as a means of income regardless of whether you win something from it or not, and Baldwin dropping a pass once doesn't mean we shouldn't have tried to throw it to him. Justifying a decision based solely on the outcome is what sports fans do as a throwaway when they don't have anything interesting to say about a play.

AgentDib":18dw13rk said:

I agree he was a risky pick, definitely a low floor high ceiling guy we gambled on in the second.

I'm not sure how you can say it's all about results though. That's the cardinal sin in statistics and does not square with the concept of risk. Uncertainty can cause good bets to fail and bad bets to pay out. Defensive drivers should still have auto insurance, the lottery is a bad bet as a means of income regardless of whether you win something from it or not, and Baldwin dropping a pass once doesn't mean we shouldn't have tried to throw it to him. Justifying a decision based solely on the outcome is what sports fans do as a throwaway when they don't have anything interesting to say about a play.

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And that's a fair point. It will probably be Schneider's biggest failure in terms of the failure to meet expectation. But you're right that there was no way to know about the ATV accident at the time the pick was made. I'm probably being a bit hard on Schneids because of the missed opportunity to take an impact player, like Ryan Ramczyk, and the benefit of hindsight. Even without the ATV accident, I think McDowell was a bit of a project.

I would meet you halfway and say it is clearly the worst outcome we've had in the draft. I would just add the disclaimer that it is increasingly important to separate outcomes from decisions as uncertainty increases, and a risky pick like McDowell had a huge amount of uncertainty behind it.

hawknation2018":2xniy9gq said:

He had 4.5 sacks as a sophomore. Poor work ethic and attitude are things that have dogged his reputation since HS. Look at his tape. He's constantly taking plays off.

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Dude stop, just stop already. You clearly don't know what you're talking about. McDowell had 41 Tackles in his sophomore year (2015) with 21 being solo tackles,13 TFL's, 1 pick and 2 forced fumbles in 14 games. He played the 1 tech, 3 tech and 5 tech positions which is why he only had 4.5 sacks as an edge rusher. He was the only player on that 2015 MSU defense what was worth a dam and they were ranked 25th in total defense. They played him all over that defensive line because he was a monster.

After doing that for a whole season without any help a couple of things tend to happen, you get frustrated being the only one making shit happen and you start to not care as much. That's exactly what happened the following year. In 2016 MSU was having a terrible season, a 3-9 type of terrible season and he started to ratchet down the effort a touch. Like not pursuing on a play he knew would be a TD at Michigan. The issue is not whether he could have impacted the play, he couldn't from the backside of it, but that you're always supposed to pursue and he didn't. That sets a bad example for your teammates. Then in the game at Illinois he got injured and was out for the last 3 games of the season.

Clowney had the same kind of situation at SC. People were questioning his effort. Now he is flourishing in the NFL because he finally has people around him that can play.

Stop regurgitating the sound bites and superficial analyses. Look into the details before you start talking like you know when you don't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy7erbPJISQ

SeaWolv":1yov7far said:

hawknation2018":1yov7far said:

He had 4.5 sacks as a sophomore. Poor work ethic and attitude are things that have dogged his reputation since HS. Look at his tape. He's constantly taking plays off.

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Dude stop, just stop already. You clearly don't know what you're talking about. McDowell had 41 Tackles in his sophomore year (2015) with 21 being solo tackles,13 TFL's, 1 pick and 2 forced fumbles in 14 games. He played the 1 tech, 3 tech and 5 tech positions which is why he only had 4.5 sacks as an edge rusher. He was the only player on that 2015 MSU defense what was worth a dam and they were ranked 25th in total defense. They played him all over that defensive line because he was a monster.

After doing that for a whole season without any help a couple of things tend to happen, you get frustrated being the only one making shit happen and you start to not care as much. That's exactly what happened the following year. In 2016 MSU was having a terrible season, a 3-9 type of terrible season and he started to ratchet down the effort a touch. Like not pursuing on a play he knew would be a TD at Michigan. The issue is not whether he could have impacted the play, he couldn't from the backside of it, but that you're always supposed to pursue and he didn't. That sets a bad example for your teammates. Clowney had the same kind of situation at SC. People were questioning his effort. Now he is flourishing in the NFL because he finally has people around him that can play.

Stop regurgitating the sound bites and superficial analyses. Look into the details before you start talking like you know when you don't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy7erbPJISQ

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Physically gifted but lazy with poor judgment does not an NFL player make.

hawknation2018":3sd4mcjx said:

Physically gifted but lazy with poor judgment does not an NFL player make.

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You're ridiculous. It's like arguing with a brick wall. He was in a bad situation at MSU and then he left and made some mistakes. Imagine that, a 20 year old not making good decisions. You want to make him a pariah.

SeaWolv":2nxe36ys said:

hawknation2018":2nxe36ys said:

Physically gifted but lazy with poor judgment does not an NFL player make.

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You're ridiculous. It's like arguing with a brick wall. He was in a bad situation at MSU and then he left and made some mistakes. Imagine that, a 20 year old not making good decisions.

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And, as a result, it sounds like his career is finished. Too bad for him. Watching a player take plays off is not confidence boosting, regardless of the excuses. I understand you're a fan of his game, but I'm going to put the matter to bed.

hawknation2018":2e1n03wi said:

And, as a result, it sounds like his career is finished. Too bad for him. Watching a player take plays off is not confidence boosting, regardless of the excuses. I understand you're a fan of his game, but I'm going to put the matter to bed.

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You have no idea if his career is finished, no one does. I think it would be foolish for the Seahawk's FO to give up on him just yet. I am not a fan of his as I hate anything that has to do with MSU but I do believe that he could be a huge asset to the Seahawk's defense. Once he does I might consider becoming a fan of his.

SeaWolv":2gmucunk said:

hawknation2018":2gmucunk said:

And, as a result, it sounds like his career is finished. Too bad for him. Watching a player take plays off is not confidence boosting, regardless of the excuses. I understand you're a fan of his game, but I'm going to put the matter to bed.

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You have no idea if his career is finished no one does. I think it would be foolish for the Seahawk's FO to give up on him just yet. I am not a fan of his as I hate anything that has to do with MSU but I do believe that he could be a huge asset to the Seahawk's defense. Once he does I might consider becoming a fan of his.

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Like I said, "it sounds like his career is finished." The speculation is that he won't be cleared by the Seahawks doctors.