Carson reportedly looking good in OTAs

TwistedHusky":34ogfew6 said:

We get our RBs injured all the damn time because our RBs are taught to fight for extra yards while our OL does not block anyone since they are all laying on the ground (often).

So guys get hit at weird angles. We need to have our guys go down when 2 or 3 defenders are on them. The extra yards are not worth the eventual injuries. It really irritates me.

If you recall, Rawls was injured when a guy ran unblocked through the line and essentially jumped on his back (it was a Vikings game if you want to go watch it).

We get our RBs injured not because they are brittle but because they are hit simultaneously from multiple angles because our OL was garbage. And while engaged with defenders, they fought for extra yards until getting hit from weird angles by additional defenders who were poorly blocked.

It is nice to hear Carson looks good though. Let's hope it continues when he plays opposing defenses.

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While this may be true for some,you cannot lump Procise into that figure...
He gets hurt just warming up!

IndyHawk":1zefyp94 said:

TwistedHusky":1zefyp94 said:

We get our RBs injured all the damn time because our RBs are taught to fight for extra yards while our OL does not block anyone since they are all laying on the ground (often).

So guys get hit at weird angles. We need to have our guys go down when 2 or 3 defenders are on them. The extra yards are not worth the eventual injuries. It really irritates me.

If you recall, Rawls was injured when a guy ran unblocked through the line and essentially jumped on his back (it was a Vikings game if you want to go watch it).

We get our RBs injured not because they are brittle but because they are hit simultaneously from multiple angles because our OL was garbage. And while engaged with defenders, they fought for extra yards until getting hit from weird angles by additional defenders who were poorly blocked.

It is nice to hear Carson looks good though. Let's hope it continues when he plays opposing defenses.

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While this may be true for some,you cannot lump Procise into that figure...
He gets hurt just warming up!

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Not sure what's the issue with Procise - whether it's inadequate warmup, not enough workouts, or whatever, but he's a completely different case from Carson. Procise constantly has sprains and pulls and such, and there are things you can do to address that - like how Wilson spent so much time working his leg muscles that they helped keep his knee together enough to play on it where most guys would have been sidelined.

Carson just got rolled up on from behind and pushed over from above and bent in a way that no human was meant to bend. In some ways it's fortunate his leg broke rather than his knee being destroyed, but something had to give.

Lots of great points, and I especially like the one about our offensive line woes (Gawd I hate Tom Cable) being the actual cause of running back, after running back, after running back getting injured.

If it walks like a duck...watching our linemen move to the 2nd level while their guy was landing on our RB was sooooo Damn frustrating. Gawd I hate Cable!

Solari is going to make a huge difference because he's going to teach the basics and get these guys to play their position first and foremost (I hope), then worry about expanding their knowledge.

Why was Sweezy good? Because he had to learn the basics. Couldn't be teaching him the other positions and 2nd and 3rd level shit when he's didn't know the basics yet.

And what the hell was with "put in Rawls for one play...nope, he went nowhere put in Davis...nope, 3rd down, put in someone else to run the ball..." Did I mention...I hate Cable! I'm going to get it tattooed on my middle finger.

I can't wait until preseason starts so that I can finally let go of all of this hate and anger towards one man. But I put more blame for our struggles on him than on anyone else. Run Game Coordinator, what a crock of shit.

I am looking forward to seeing Penny run, and did wonder how much of his success was San Diego's scheme. Even so, I think Rashad has the mental and physical talent necessary to adjust to the NFL game.

With Chris Carson's "bust 'em up" running style, and what I see as Penny's "Slash & Gash" style, I'm excited and honestly believe that this running game is going to be lights out and is going to make the offense, and defense better than it once was. I fully expect the Seahawks to have the best running game in the NFL this year, and for our trajectory to resemble, and then far exceed that of the Mark "ButtFumble" Sanchez led Jets. (Thank you Sanchez for one of the best belly laughs of my life).

The offensive side won't be that hard to improve upon, but they will improve, and the time of possession will give our Defense the kind of boost it'ss been missing for several years.

And what most people don't realize, is that our Defense is loaded with talent. They just haven't had the chance to demonstrate it. Watch out for Naz Jones, and Frank Clark, now that he's out of the shadow of Bennett. It's his time. And Dion Jordan...we saw what that guy could do in limited snaps.

Despite the ill will I harbor towards a certain ASSistant coach, I'm excited about this year's prospects, and the fact that everyone is panning the Seahawks offseason, only makes the anticipation that much better!

Go Hawks!

ivotuk":zqnakz88 said:

Lots of great points, and I especially like the one about our offensive line woes (Gawd I hate Tom Cable) being the actual cause of running back, after running back, after running back getting injured.

If it walks like a duck...watching our linemen move to the 2nd level while their guy was landing on our RB was sooooo Damn frustrating. Gawd I hate Cable!

I can't wait until preseason starts so that I can finally let go of all of this hate and anger towards one man. But I put more blame for our struggles on him than on anyone else. Run Game Coordinator, what a crock of shit.

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I listen to NFL Radio a ton and what's amazing is the free pass being given to Cable. The majority of these hosts are former personnel management or players, and the level of discourse is typically pretty good. The narrative goes that they don't blame Cable for the mess, that it's simply a personnel issue (and, of course, not tying Cable to personnel decisions for some reason). What's funny is that this topic often comes up after a Raider fan calls in worried about Cable and/or the OL choices they made in the draft this year.

It's going to be so satisfying this year seeing that Seahawk run game bloom, while the Raiders recently-lauded OL entirely implodes (and I have no former "AFC West" malice toward the Raiders...I actually think the NFL is better when the Raiders are good...I just want Cable totally exposed). Seattle has invested so much draft/UDFA capital into OL and RB that all the pieces are actually there to work with; it's simply a matter of competent coaching. You combine the threat of Wilson backing off the defense with his arm/legs, and I think it's a much, much better bet to think that Seattle will have a top-10 running game rather than a bottom-10 running game. And it's going to be fascinating hearing that narrative play out early this year. I haven't been this excited for a season to start in a long, long time.

Cable was already exposed, it was masked by Reese and McFadden, there was a reason they could not keep a QB healthy there while he was the O line and then Head Coach calling plays etc who had complete influence over the draft and who played where. Remember Gallery was a can't miss LT, he could not play it in Cables system and was moved to Guard.

Also they brought in several back other then McFadden and they could not succeed as well, sound familiar?

Cable had a good scheme, when taking out the knees of the defenders was legal. Now that it isn't, the scheme isn't anywhere near as effective. In fact, seeing all your linemen flopping about on the ground is downright embarrassing.

I have great hope the running game will improve simply because of Solari.

KiwiHawk":d0hiprva said:

Cable had a good scheme, when taking out the knees of the defenders was legal. Now that it isn't, the scheme isn't anywhere near as effective. In fact, seeing all your linemen flopping about on the ground is downright embarrassing.

I have great hope the running game will improve simply because of Solari.

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When the rules change, smart coaches adjust. Cable couldn't and that is his failure. It's unfortunate that PC/JS held on to him for longer than they should have. Once the rule changes occurred, they should have dumped Cable.

TwistedHusky":2dfsdi8o said:

Yep.

Supporting your point.

I am getting tired of the narrative about our RBs being fragile, brittle, etc. Even Rawls, who basically had someone jump on his damn back while his back was turned and he was trying to do whatever he could to drive through the line.

When ALL your RBs have a problem, it might not be the RBs. In this instance, I really doubt it is.

We need to encourage our RBs to go down when they have more than 1 defender on them. And to hit the sidelines more instead of pushing for that extra 1 yard that ends up in getting hit again.

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Injuries to RB's is fairly COMMON, and not just with the Seahawks; It's just the nature of the beast.
Blocking schemes CANNOT account for every defender that can come through untouched.
You can be in PERFECT HEALTH, and someone will still come through a hole unexpectedly, so, there's a really good chance YOU MAY GET HURT.
People around here use to get all bent out of shape when Shaun Alexander would opt not to take an unnecessary hit, and run out of bounds, yet he was our most prolific Red Zone RB threat.
Is that what some of y'all want our RB's to start doing?

scutterhawk":1b2w3eob said:

TwistedHusky":1b2w3eob said:

Yep.

Supporting your point.

I am getting tired of the narrative about our RBs being fragile, brittle, etc. Even Rawls, who basically had someone jump on his damn back while his back was turned and he was trying to do whatever he could to drive through the line.

When ALL your RBs have a problem, it might not be the RBs. In this instance, I really doubt it is.

We need to encourage our RBs to go down when they have more than 1 defender on them. And to hit the sidelines more instead of pushing for that extra 1 yard that ends up in getting hit again.

Click to expand...

Injuries to RB's is fairly COMMON, and not just with the Seahawks; It's just the nature of the beast.
Blocking schemes CANNOT account for every defender that can come through untouched.
You can be in PERFECT HEALTH, and someone will still come through a hole unexpectedly, so, there's a really good chance YOU MAY GET HURT.
People around here use to get all bent out of shape when Shaun Alexander would opt not to take an unnecessary hit, and run out of bounds, yet he was our most prolific Red Zone RB threat.
Is that what some of y'all want our RB's to start doing?

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Yes injuries happen to running backs, the point people are making is if you allow guys through un blocked and to stand a guy up to take additional hits he has more chances to have a significant injury versus being able to run and deliver a blow many times to finish a run off.

Its akin to a tackling dummy taking unfiltered shots versus a moving target where you may not get a squared up hit as much.

Sure guys on defense are going to win sometimes as well, they are professionals as well, but a line that can give a RB a chance versus trying to decide which guy is going to bury him every play.

hawkfan68":i5kqbixr said:

KiwiHawk":i5kqbixr said:

Cable had a good scheme, when taking out the knees of the defenders was legal. Now that it isn't, the scheme isn't anywhere near as effective. In fact, seeing all your linemen flopping about on the ground is downright embarrassing.

I have great hope the running game will improve simply because of Solari.

Click to expand...

When the rules change, smart coaches adjust. Cable couldn't and that is his failure. It's unfortunate that PC/JS held on to him for longer than they should have. Once the rule changes occurred, they should have dumped Cable.

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Well, it's just that - they held onto him to give him opportunity to adjust. He didn't.

Carroll adjusts all the time. Fired from the NFL, he assessed himself and made adjustments and came back with great success. He invented a defense that was not just good but historically good, and basically broke the NFL by making an historically good offense look like stink on the NFL's biggest stage. The NFL changed the contact rules for receivers, but Carroll adapted, and the defense continued to smother the opposition.

If Carroll finds it relatively easy to self-assess and adjust, it's entirely possibly he didn't understand that another man who was once at the top of his game would not also be able to adjust. Frequently people who are really good at something don't relate to the struggles of others at the same thing.

jlwaters1":d0olcslu said:

getnasty":d0olcslu said:

I said it in another thread but I think he ends the year with more yards then Penny. He was a stud last year but I get why they drafted a running back.

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I don't get this statement. How was he a stud? He played just 4 games, with only 1 standout game.. That was against the hapless 49ers.

I think people are getting carried away and over valuing what he did last year. He wasnt a world beater. Frankly we haven't seen a large enough sample size to determine if he's great or not.

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Well, one reason would be his 4.2 ypc behind the worst run blocking o line in the league, for starters. Thomas Rawls lead the league that year Beast Mode went out, with 4.8 ypc, and that was behind a much better run blocking o line. But you shouldn't need stats, it should have been apparent from just watching him that he has serious "stud" potential. Obviously, in 4 games, nothing is concrete. But even non Seahawk analysts see this guy has potential. That's just bringing up rushing stats, too. He was great blocking for a rookie back as well. And oh yeah, did you happen to see some of his big impact catches?

Didn't have 1400 yds rushing so has to be a bust, doesn't matter if he only played 4 games Stat geeks say bust, they lost out on the playoffs in their Fantasy league so it must be true.

I wouldn't say that Carson is a bust at all, he certainly has some good value as a RB "prospect". To me he will remain a "prospect" until he has more consistent playing time to really show what he has. 4 games isn't enough to properly evaluate his performance. You don't have to be a "stats geek" to see the difference in performance between these two RB's. I'm not saying that Carson is bad or anything, I just think many here may be a little too optimistic about him based on the extremely small sample size. I certainly think that Carson can and will be a good member of the RB room if he can stay healthy and add value as a backup to the real RB they just drafted in the 1-st round. No way in hell will Carson be the starter over Penney. Together, however, they can all be part of a successful and revitalized running game, each with a roll to play. Carson will likely be the B/U to Penney & after the preseason games this will be obvious. IMO.

Chris Carson, 2013-2016, (Oklahoma St.)
2013: No carries, No yards
2014: No carries, No yards
2015: 131 carries, 517-yds, 3.9-ypc, 4-TD's
2016: 82 carries, 559-yds, 6.8-ypc, 9-TD's (showing the "potential" that PC liked)
TOTALS: 213 carries for 1076-yds, 5.05-ypc, 13-TD's
-------------------------------------------
Chris Carson, 2017: (As a Seahawk)
---VS: Green Bay, A 17-9---LOSS
6 carries for 39-yds, 6.5-ypc, 0-TD's, 1 reception, 10-yds, 0-TD's
---VS: San Francisco, A 12-9---WIN
20 carries for 93-yds, 4.6-ypc, 0-TD's, 1 reception, 7-yds, 0-TD's (1 decent game out of 4 games, maybe just a fluke?)
---VS: Tennessee, A 33-27---LOSS
11 carries for 34-yds, 3.1-ypc, 0-TD's, 2 receptions, 18-yds, 1-TD.
---VS: Indiana, A 46-18---WIN
12 carries, 42-yds, 3.5-ypc, 0-TD's, 3 receptions, 24-yds.
---TOTALS: 49 carries for 208-yds, 4.2-ypc, 0-TD's, 7 receptions, 59-yds, 1-TD.
---------------------------------------------
Rashaad Penney, @ SDST. in 2017 alone, had individual games of:
197-yds, 216-yds, 175-yds, 128-yds, 107-yds, 170-yds, 53-yds, 69-yds, 253-yds, 234-yds, 222-yds, 203-yds & 221-yds.
(That totals 5, almost 7 games where Penney had more yards in a game than Carson had in his 4 games last year.)
--NOTE #1: The 53 & 69-yd games were both in losses when 2 of their 3 Freshmen OL were hurt & replaced with B/U freshmen OL, on a team also with poor QB play that was a run first team.
--NOTE #2: Penney often faced 7 & 8 in the box on his carries as he was the focal point of the SDST run first offense. They knew he was coming, but couldn't stop him, that's the definition of a great RB IMO.
:smilingalien:

A rookie gets injured, and he's magically a bust? :?

I really can't see how an early report that a player injured last season is looking promising early in voluntary OTAs is anything but great news. After all this player looked as if he was a steal as a 7th round pick until he got hurt hurt early last season. Up until then he was "the running game" as none of the rest of the others looked any good. If Carson is healthy and can resume running hard and making respectable yardage like he was prior to getting hurt this bodes well for a return for the team to finally again have a running game.

The return of Davis who grew as a reliever last season and the addition of Penny who may just be better than Carson with Carson can platoon with spells of relief from McKissic and a hopefully healthy Prosise could offer up an formidable running game by committee. if not and one of Carson Penny or another seizes a starters role the ugly situation at RB may finally be over.

I'm encouraged by these reports and find not a single bit of negativity in a report by the normally astute Dave Wyman the Carson is looking strong and physical in early OTA work.

My sources tell me he has yet to be tackled. VERY encouraging.

CamanoIslandJQ":bhd58n59 said:

I wouldn't say that Carson is a bust at all, he certainly has some good value as a RB "prospect". To me he will remain a "prospect" until he has more consistent playing time to really show what he has. 4 games isn't enough to properly evaluate his performance. You don't have to be a "stats geek" to see the difference in performance between these two RB's. I'm not saying that Carson is bad or anything, I just think many here may be a little too optimistic about him based on the extremely small sample size. I certainly think that Carson can and will be a good member of the RB room if he can stay healthy and add value as a backup to the real RB they just drafted in the 1-st round. No way in hell will Carson be the starter over Penney. Together, however, they can all be part of a successful and revitalized running game, each with a roll to play. Carson will likely be the B/U to Penney & after the preseason games this will be obvious. IMO.

Chris Carson, 2013-2016, (Oklahoma St.)
2013: No carries, No yards
2014: No carries, No yards
2015: 131 carries, 517-yds, 3.9-ypc, 4-TD's
2016: 82 carries, 559-yds, 6.8-ypc, 9-TD's (showing the "potential" that PC liked)
TOTALS: 213 carries for 1076-yds, 5.05-ypc, 13-TD's
-------------------------------------------
Chris Carson, 2017: (As a Seahawk)
---VS: Green Bay, A 17-9---LOSS
6 carries for 39-yds, 6.5-ypc, 0-TD's, 1 reception, 10-yds, 0-TD's
---VS: San Francisco, A 12-9---WIN
20 carries for 93-yds, 4.6-ypc, 0-TD's, 1 reception, 7-yds, 0-TD's (1 decent game out of 4 games, maybe just a fluke?)
---VS: Tennessee, A 33-27---LOSS
11 carries for 34-yds, 3.1-ypc, 0-TD's, 2 receptions, 18-yds, 1-TD.
---VS: Indiana, A 46-18---WIN
12 carries, 42-yds, 3.5-ypc, 0-TD's, 3 receptions, 24-yds.
---TOTALS: 49 carries for 208-yds, 4.2-ypc, 0-TD's, 7 receptions, 59-yds, 1-TD.
---------------------------------------------
Rashaad Penney, @ SDST. in 2017 alone, had individual games of:
197-yds, 216-yds, 175-yds, 128-yds, 107-yds, 170-yds, 53-yds, 69-yds, 253-yds, 234-yds, 222-yds, 203-yds & 221-yds.
(That totals 5, almost 7 games where Penney had more yards in a game than Carson had in his 4 games last year.)
--NOTE #1: The 53 & 69-yd games were both in losses when 2 of their 3 Freshmen OL were hurt & replaced with B/U freshmen OL, on a team also with poor QB play that was a run first team.
--NOTE #2: Penney often faced 7 & 8 in the box on his carries as he was the focal point of the SDST run first offense. They knew he was coming, but couldn't stop him, that's the definition of a great RB IMO.
:smilingalien:

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So you're seriously going to compare the production of the feature back in a run-first offense on a college team from a 2nd-rate division to the production of one-of-many running backs on a pass-first team with the worst offensive line playing a 2nd-place schedule in the NFL?

I have reasons to look forward to seeing Penny play, but your comparison is beyond ludicrous. It's plaid.

Yes, that is my opinion and I stand by it.
Opinions are just like assholes, everybody has one!
:smilingalien: :smilingalien:

CamanoIslandJQ":jwbr2h6h said:

Yes, that is my opinion and I stand by it.
Opinions are just like assholes, everybody has one!
:smilingalien: :smilingalien:

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Well spelling Penny's name correctly would give you more credibility.

I would expect Carson to look good by now. He's not a second rate talent like Rawls. He was cutting on a dime in week 17 last year so he should definitely be fine if not 100%. Dude trains at elite of elite levels, a real intense workout warrior. A lot of folks on this site might as well be from Missouri and blind as a bat otherwise because they have no football IQ, but Carson, very plainly and clearly, has all the tools. He and Penny are going to be a lot of fun to watch this year and if one gets hurt...we have redundancy, albeit dissimilar styles.