There are Doubters, then there's This Guy

sdog1981":2r9awucv said:

Pete Carroll got a team of nobodies to go 7-9 with Tavaris Jackson as QB and an offense that lost 6-3 to the Browns. 9 wins the floor of the Russell Wilson Seahawks.

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So far...

scutterhawk":3hzjuctl said:

Sgt. Largent":3hzjuctl said:

Well, like I said in another thread if the combo of Solari, Schottenheimer and our RB's, O-line don't work out.........it could get 4-12 ugly.

Our D-line has major holes, other than Clark there are no proven stars. Same with the defensive backfield, especially if Earl holds out.

If the offense rebounds in the run game and we can play some smash mouth ball control play action offense that can score 24-30 pts a game? Yeah, we have a shot at competing.

But if the offense does what it did last year, stink in the run game and Russell has to account for 90% of the offensive output running for his life trying to make plays? 4-12 could happen my friend.

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4 & 12 ugly ? BWAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAA.
You're souring all the hell on Wilson,,,4 & 12?...C'mon Sargie-Large, get serious man. ukeface:
Worst case scenario I see -> MAYBE <-another 9 - 7 Season if the Run Game don't pan out & that's not being homer, I'm just more confident that Russell Wilson is WAY BETTER than you're giving him credit. SMH.

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1. Only my wife's allowed to call me Sargie Largie.

2. Again, you're another fan under the false pretense that our defense isn't capable of taking another step back during their rebuild. We're thin on the D-line, thin at LB depth and have quite a few question marks on the back end, especially if Earl holds out.

3. I've said I DON'T think we're going 4-12, but I can certainly see a scenario of our O-line stinks again, Solari and Schottenheimer are failures and our defense doesn't rebound from losing half it's starters that we could be in trouble in 2018.

Sgt. Largent":rxoslc3y said:

ImTheScientist":rxoslc3y said:

Trrrroy":rxoslc3y said:

When was the last time a team with a healthy top 5 qb went 4-12?

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2015 San Diego Chargers went 4-12.

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- Brees played on three straight 7-9 teams
- Eli Manning was 6-10, 6-10 and 3-13 three of the past four years
- Favre went 4-12 in 2005
- Matt Ryan went 4-12 and 6-10 in 2012 and 2013
- Cam Newton went 2-14 in 2010

Is it likely we go 4-12 with a healthy Russell? No, but to say "hey he's too good for us to stink" is not an accurate opinion.

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Brees and Ryan are the only top 5 QBs on this list at the time. Newton was close.

Besides that point, I think you almost make the other side of this argument.

Russ and the Hawks went 9-7 last year with the WORST oline, I've seen fielded by an NFL club in a long time. With a decent FG kicker they would have gone what 11-5? When Ryan went 4-12 and 6-10 he had a terrible OLINE as well. They couldn't protect him or run the ball.

If the Falcons go 4-12 when they have no oline, what does that mean for the Seahawks if they can fix this? If they can't fix it then I would assume 8-8 - 11-5 would be their likely outcome range.

lukerguy":16vkuyu0 said:

Sgt. Largent":16vkuyu0 said:

ImTheScientist":16vkuyu0 said:

Trrrroy":16vkuyu0 said:

When was the last time a team with a healthy top 5 qb went 4-12?

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2015 San Diego Chargers went 4-12.

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- Brees played on three straight 7-9 teams
- Eli Manning was 6-10, 6-10 and 3-13 three of the past four years
- Favre went 4-12 in 2005
- Matt Ryan went 4-12 and 6-10 in 2012 and 2013
- Cam Newton went 2-14 in 2010

Is it likely we go 4-12 with a healthy Russell? No, but to say "hey he's too good for us to stink" is not an accurate opinion.

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Brees and Ryan are the only top 5 QBs on this list at the time. Newton was close.

Besides that point, I think you almost make the other side of this argument.

Russ and the Hawks went 9-7 last year with the WORST oline, I've seen fielded by an NFL club in a long time. With a decent FG kicker they would have gone what 11-5? When Ryan went 4-12 and 6-10 he had a terrible OLINE as well. They couldn't protect him or run the ball.

If the Falcons go 4-12 when they have no oline, what does that mean for the Seahawks if they can fix this? If they can't fix it then I would assume 8-8 - 11-5 would be their likely outcome range.

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The Hawks went 9-7 with Russell AND an above average defense for most of the season, especially early on before guys like Kam, Richardson, Wagner and Bennett got hurt.

So you guys keep leaving out the defense in your analysis of why we can't stink in 2018. IF this defense full of young players and depth issues doesn't pull together and play well..............then sorry, there is a scenario with continued poor O-line play and no RB taking charge that this team doesn't stink.

Wtf was Cam Newton even in the league in 2010?

Also our line wasn't even the worst in the league last season, the Texans' was worse.

Sgt. Largent":2frz7yig said:

lukerguy":2frz7yig said:

Sgt. Largent":2frz7yig said:

ImTheScientist":2frz7yig said:

2015 San Diego Chargers went 4-12.

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- Brees played on three straight 7-9 teams
- Eli Manning was 6-10, 6-10 and 3-13 three of the past four years
- Favre went 4-12 in 2005
- Matt Ryan went 4-12 and 6-10 in 2012 and 2013
- Cam Newton went 2-14 in 2010

Is it likely we go 4-12 with a healthy Russell? No, but to say "hey he's too good for us to stink" is not an accurate opinion.

Click to expand...

Brees and Ryan are the only top 5 QBs on this list at the time. Newton was close.

Besides that point, I think you almost make the other side of this argument.

Russ and the Hawks went 9-7 last year with the WORST oline, I've seen fielded by an NFL club in a long time. With a decent FG kicker they would have gone what 11-5? When Ryan went 4-12 and 6-10 he had a terrible OLINE as well. They couldn't protect him or run the ball.

If the Falcons go 4-12 when they have no oline, what does that mean for the Seahawks if they can fix this? If they can't fix it then I would assume 8-8 - 11-5 would be their likely outcome range.

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The Hawks went 9-7 with Russell AND an above average defense for most of the season, especially early on before guys like Kam, Richardson, Wagner and Bennett got hurt.

So you guys keep leaving out the defense in your analysis of why we can't stink in 2018. IF this defense full of young players and depth issues doesn't pull together and play well..............then sorry, there is a scenario with continued poor O-line play and no RB taking charge that this team doesn't stink.

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It's a good point. Their defense was 25th and ours was 11th last year, so definitely a gap there. Do you expect the defense will be worse than last year? I don't.

I don't think the D will be as good, but it's PC so there's a chance. People keep neglecting they were 25th in points allowed after losing Kam and Sherm. They were 6th or so up until that point. Ended up 13th in scoring D at the end of the season.

adeltaY":3l7epg0g said:

I don't think the D will be as good, but it's PC so there's a chance. People keep neglecting they were 25th in points allowed after losing Kam and Sherm. They were 6th or so up until that point. Ended up 13th in scoring D at the end of the season.

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People also are forgetting that it was PC who built the defense to its greatness to begin with. He did it once and so why not again? This defense is in better shape than the one he inherited when he first started in 2010.

The biggest concern for me is the pass rush. Other than Clark, none of the players have proven they can provide rush. If they can’t get to the QB, the defense will be bad with or without Thomas.

You have to remember he has slim pickings to back fill when we had injuries last year, he has restocked the middle of the line and brought in players now to rebuild in the image he wants, Now all you that want to nic pic lets make sure we understand something with what I am saying, it may not be the same defense look, Pete uses a players strengths so things may line up looking very much the same but assignments and responsibilities could be different.

Sgt. Largent":3e5w9ts6 said:

Well, like I said in another thread if the combo of Solari, Schottenheimer and our RB's, O-line don't work out.........it could get 4-12 ugly.

Our D-line has major holes, other than Clark there are no proven stars. Same with the defensive backfield, especially if Earl holds out.

If the offense rebounds in the run game and we can play some smash mouth ball control play action offense that can score 24-30 pts a game? Yeah, we have a shot at competing.

But if the offense does what it did last year, stink in the run game and Russell has to account for 90% of the offensive output running for his life trying to make plays? 4-12 could happen my friend.

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I don't agree with this assessment of the D-Line at all. Are their household names and all pro's on the line? No. But you have to acknowledge the development of Jarran Reed and Naz Jones here. Reed is a LEGIT presence in the middle and is a beast against the run. Jones is Reed 2.0. If Deon Jordan stays healthy, there's no reason in the world he can't replicate or surpass Bennett level production. He flashed absolute dominance last year while recovering from injuries.

They still have two of the best LB's in the game, arguably the best MLB and a young group of at least average CB's - one well above average in Griffin and solid if unspectacular Safeties. Couple that with what I expect to be a much improved offense that spreads the ball and controls the clock through running the ball (convinced the run game is going to be wildly surprising) and good blocking from the TE and improved line play. There's no reason this team can't hit a hot streak and surprise a few teams along the way.

This is most definitely a bridge year to next year when they'll have LOADS of cap room and money to spend, things could get interesting with this Hawks team. They're basically playing with house money this year as most have written them off. I just don't see it. I think they'll be much better than the 4th worst team in football. I wouldn't be surprised to see this team out perform last years by a wide margin and I could definitely see Russ having a place in the discussion for league MVP.

I think when all is said and done, this team probably finishes with 9-10 wins if I had to bet but I wouldn't be surprised to see them finish with 11-12 and a playoff win. - If they get some positive injury karma.

hawkfan68":3hym9x92 said:

adeltaY":3hym9x92 said:

I don't think the D will be as good, but it's PC so there's a chance. People keep neglecting they were 25th in points allowed after losing Kam and Sherm. They were 6th or so up until that point. Ended up 13th in scoring D at the end of the season.

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People also are forgetting that it was PC who built the defense to its greatness to begin with. He did it once and so why not again?

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Because the talent that PC used to built id, isn't going for cheap throwaway late-round picks that you can amass by trades. They're going for first-round picks now.

MontanaHawk05":311lgqdq said:

hawkfan68":311lgqdq said:

adeltaY":311lgqdq said:

I don't think the D will be as good, but it's PC so there's a chance. People keep neglecting they were 25th in points allowed after losing Kam and Sherm. They were 6th or so up until that point. Ended up 13th in scoring D at the end of the season.

Click to expand...

People also are forgetting that it was PC who built the defense to its greatness to begin with. He did it once and so why not again?

Click to expand...

Because the talent that PC used to built id, isn't going for cheap throwaway late-round picks that you can amass by trades. They're going for first-round picks now.

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Underrated point. It's harder to get the type of guys who made us so successful in the first place. It's possible Tre Flowers becomes the next Sherman and we got both in the fifth round, but how likely is that?

I am on the other side of this as I feel with a new set of coaches and hungry players we will experience some growing pains but get way better towards the end of the season
We have some great players that we didn't have when the team was put together from ashes last time
Yes we do have a tough schedule but I see nothing but good to come of it
The only position group I'm concerned about is defensive ends and pass rush

I have a feeling were going to be hard to run against as our Vikings cast off pickups I think will fit right in
It wouldn't surprise me if Poona Ford makes the cut and has an impact as well

I have a feeling the whole division is gonna be good other than maybe Arizona but they might be better , time will tell but I have immense hope for this team as I thought the legion of boom was pretty much toast sans Earl even before the season started and am happy at least we have some good players filling those spots who all got a little more experience last year playing together
Just gotta hope Earl doesn't hold out and Bwags stays healthy
Go Hawks :irishdrinkers: :irishdrinkers: :irishdrinkers: :irishdrinkers: :irishdrinkers: :irishdrinkers:

I am on the other side of this as I feel with a new set of coaches and hungry players we will experience some growing pains but get way better towards the end of the season
We have some great players that we didn't have when the team was put together from ashes last tim
Yes we do have a tough schedule but I see nothing but good to come of it
The only position group I'm concerned about is defensive ends and pass rush

I have a feeling were going to be hard to run against as our Vikings cast off pickups I think will fit right in
It wouldn't surprise me if Poona Ford makes the cut and has an impact as well

I have a feeling the whole division is gonna be good other than maybe Arizona but they might be better , time will tell but I have immense hope for this team as I thought the legion of boom was pretty much toast sans Earl even before the season started and am happy at least we have some good players filling those spots who all got a little more experience last year playing together
Just gotta hope Earl doesn't hold out and Bwags stays healthy
Go Hawks :irishdrinkers: :irishdrinkers: :irishdrinkers: :irishdrinkers: :irishdrinkers: :irishdrinkers:

Popeyejones":e38impw0 said:

After the 9ers’ coach and roster purge of 2014 they still went 5-11 in 2015.

The Seahawks have shed a ton of talent, but not as much as the 9ers did, and the talent they’ve retained is also much more talented than the retained talent from those 9ers teams.

I think we could chart out a highly unlikely path in which the Seahawks totally bottom out at 3-13/4-12 in 2020, but a season ending injury to Wilson early in this year is the only way that happens this season.

On the low end I think 6-10 is possible. On the high end I think 10-6 is possible, with a normal distribution between those points.

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Pretty much dead on here. Most likely to me is 7-9.

We went 3-4 after the debacle that was the Arizona game. Of course since then, we've shed our only TD scoring option (Graham), and lost Bennett, Richardson, Richardson and Chancellor from those teams.

Each team is different year to year. But I really don't hold out a lot of hope that guys from the 2016/17 drafts are going to ascend to significant quality. If we're being honest, then that 3-4 record of play to polish off the season is probably close to our expectation. It could even be closer to our ceiling than our floor.

In order to be closer to 9-7, I think a few things would have to unexpectedly break our way:

1. Seattle finds a modest TD producer from the TE group/WR group. This is possible.
2. Seattle's run offense improves significantly. Probably need 7 TDs at least from Carson/Penny. This is possible, even likely.
3. Seattle resigns Earl. This is unknown.
4. One of Reed/Johnson/Jones produces much improved pass rush quality. Possible but not entirely expected.
5. Delano Hill/Bradley McDougald produce at a decent level to replace Chancellor. Difficult to project.
6. The DEs (Clark, Jordan, Smith etc) elevate and produce as a whole.

I think there are a ton of question marks. And needless to say, if one of Baldwin/Wagner/Wilson go down to injury that probably wipes any meaningful projection off the map.

Other things that really could swing the needle but are at this point totally unlikely

1. OG positions get cemented. Whomever wins between Pocic/Fluker/Roos/Ifedi -- they elevate their game as a year 2/3 player and we get serious quality
2. OT positions remain largely healthy. Brown remains injury free and one of Ifedi/Fant elevates their games to above competent at the RT spot. This is unknown.

I do believe that Carson is a quality NFL running back. Even behind a crap line. Penny -- I want to like him. But really I'm not as excited about Penny as I am about Carson. Give him an average OL and I think he can be special (1200 yards, 8 TDs). That can raise the floor significantly.

This defense is bad when losing one LOB member. When we are missing two it's hide your eyes bad. It's possible we lose all three of them this year. This defense isn't stocked with game altering talents anywhere to make up for that potential loss. Griffin I think is ready to ascend to high quality -- maybe even greatness. But nowhere else do we have players of that pedigree or expectation.

We could be better -- even good at running the ball. With an actually good offensive line. And still be worse in the end. This isn't a team that can go 5-5 to start the season and then finish with a flourish. We can't sleepwalk through any month with what it looks like on paper. What kind of expectation do we really have that we won't follow the same 'win it in the 4th quarter' mentality that we've always echoed?

Coug_Hawk08":1camdr86 said:

Are we forgetting Pete went 7-9 with 200000 transactions of nobodies? He has never had a team win less than 6.

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The NFC West was a complete and utter joke that season. Inside the division the Seahawks were 4-2. Outside they were 3-7.

The division could have two teams over 10 wins (LA and SF) and on the surface our 2018 schedule looks significantly stronger than the 2010 schedule did. Using 2010 as an example just doesn't fully tell the story of what happened that year.

sherm gonna sherm cant wait for doug and russ to torch him

He is going to get beat a lot this year imo. And I'm not just saying that because he's on the Niners.

1 - 5 vs NFC West
4 - 5 in remaining non-NFC West home games
2 - 5 in remaining non-NFC West road games

Looks ugly, but let's take our lumps w decent draft picks and rebuild a championship team again.

chet380":2x5g39dy said:

1 - 5 vs NFC West
4 - 5 in remaining non-NFC West home games
2 - 5 in remaining non-NFC West road games

Looks ugly, but let's take our lumps w decent draft picks and rebuild a championship team again.

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7-9 or 9-7 is the worst record to have in the NFL. That is why the Seahawks were a forgotten team for so many years they were never bad enough to be a joke and they were never good enough to contend. If your team is going to be bad they need to be really bad, Like 4-12 bad, 7-9 gets you nothing.