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Any difference in Wilson's pocket stance?

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  • Without visibility into his thoughts, Baldwin's comments could be read different ways. In my case I view it more of a commentary of missed opportunity, as he's seeing now what could have been done with Wilson's training and the coaching he's getting. It's not like there's criticisms of how he's accepting and working with the new coaches' wishes. In fact, Wilson's history shows that he generally rises to the level of work that's being asked (learning multiple PRO style offenses successfully through his college career).

    Doug isn't normally slinging darts at individuals in such a straightforward way. Most of Doug's criticism of Wilson has been around being more assertive in leading the offense vs just running the playbook.
    lobohawk
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  • Milehighhawk wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    mrt144 wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:Duane got in Russ's face on several occasions last season. As I keep saying, Russ makes Duane's job really hard to do. He really needs to work on his pocket movement to bring his game up to the next level.


    And what if he doesn't? Better flush RW and keep everyone else and just hope you hit on whatever replacement you cobble together despite the trail of sorrow left by the vast majority of QBs who enter the league? Better hope you didn't whiff on nearly every RB since Marshawn left, been stingy with retaining WRs, been comically inept with OL talent, somehow misuse a player and lose that players head when he was a bonafide stud when playing in an offensive scheme that were suited to their talents...

    He's already in the 90th percentile of QBs by almost any metric of your choosing. So you want specific instance betterness in like 5-10% of plays run? We all do but my goodness you're pining for a QB that hits like 80% of their attempts (and no points for throwing screens here)

    I want a QB that is consistent, that is what all of this work that Schottenheimer is doing with him is all about. Consistency. Something that Russ has severely lacked. Last season he was legendary in the fourth quarter, but he was horrid in every other. In his first three quarters last season he threw almost as many picks, as touchdowns, and in 2/4 of the quarters he completed less than 60 percent of his passes. In the first quarter it is particularly bad at 57 percent. Our offenses inability to produce until the last quarter was a huge issue last season. Did the lack of a running game, and line play a part? Absolutely. Did Russ play a part in that as well? You betcha.

    Russell Wilson does not know how to manipulate the pocket, and his footwork can get sloppy a times even with no pressure. His default is to back pedal, which makes the job of any lineman significantly harder. The reason why stepping up into the pocket is a thing, is it allows lineman to use the momentum of an edge rusher against them. One of the fundamental techniques is redirection. With Russ at QB that is not an option most of the time. Now --- he is able to get away with this when most QB's wouldn't because he is one of the most elusive QB's to ever put on cleats. He also has the uncanny ability to throw accurately from strange positions. Russ is the only QB that could get away with back peddling.

    So why does it matter if its been working for him might you ask? Russ's style is feast or famine. He'll pop off, and get long bomb after long bomb, or he will not be able to get out of his own way, and miss open receivers because his back is to them. Schottenheimer is trying to find a way to intermingle Russ's unique abilities with traditional QB play. This is an evolution he will have to make if he plans on playing in the league for an extended duration. We got a taste of what this looks like in 2015. I have no doubts in my mind that he could look like that every year if he refined his quarterback play.

    The scary thing is, Russell Wilson is still very rough around the edges. Imagine what he could be if he is ever able to refine his game? Brady who?


    Wilson is only second highest all time in QB Rating, but is “wildly inconsistent”. Yeah that makes a whole lot of sense.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    You just glossed over everything I said. I said at first glace he looks like the model of consistency, but when you go at look at his game on a quarter by quarter basis things start falling apart. Last season he threw for almost as many INT as TDs, and had two quarters below 60 percent completion in his first three quarters. This has largely been the case throughout his career save for 2015. THAT is inconsistency and this is something that is unique to Russ. The likes of Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc do not have this kind of struggle.

    The rope a dope style of play is not ideal. I'm not saying he is a bad QB, I'm saying there is still more room for improvement. I'm also saying implying that he needs to start thinking about evolving his style as he ages.
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  • https://bleacherreport.com/articles/279 ... -ever-been

    Now Doug said Russ the best he has ever been, all thanks to Schotty.


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  • Spin Doctor wrote:but when you go at look at his game on a quarter by quarter basis things start falling apart. Last season he threw for almost as many INT as TDs, and had two quarters below 60 percent completion in his first three quarters. This has largely been the case throughout his career save for 2015.


    No. What metric are you using to say his Q's have been inconsistent besides 2015? This was only a large disparity last year. Like how do you say this BS thinking it won't get called out? Here's an example of why this line of reasoning is so silly.

    2014 RW passer rating: Q1:82.3
    Q2:100.6
    Q3:97.4
    Q4:96.2

    2014 Brees passer rating: Q1:81.6
    Q2:103.6
    Q3:101.3
    Q4:100.3


    It's almost as if even great QB's have Q's where stats don't look as great. Maybe when you split season sample sizes into 4 you get some variance that isn't some great mark of terrible inconsistency. You can go check all the Q splits on ESPN the reality is the only year his Q by Q variance has stood out as an oddity from other top QB's is last year. Otherwise most of the really good QB's are not "consistent" Q by Q in stats the way you portray it. For example Brees again in 2013 had a 1st half rating of 118 but dropped to 89 in the 2nd. Does that mean Brees is a wildly inconsistent QB or should you maybe rethink how you talk about stat variance? His career splits on Q by Q show that most of these "inconsistencies" even over larger sample sizes. Again based on stats and comparison to other QB's last year was the only year where quarter variance really stood out. So saying that is fine, but expanding it to a career issue is in fact anti-stat and has no basis.
    erik2690
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  • erik2690 wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:but when you go at look at his game on a quarter by quarter basis things start falling apart. Last season he threw for almost as many INT as TDs, and had two quarters below 60 percent completion in his first three quarters. This has largely been the case throughout his career save for 2015.


    No. What metric are you using to say his Q's have been inconsistent besides 2015? This was only a large disparity last year. Like how do you say this BS thinking it won't get called out? Here's an example of why this line of reasoning is so silly.

    2014 RW passer rating: Q1:82.3
    Q2:100.6
    Q3:97.4
    Q4:96.2

    2014 Brees passer rating: Q1:81.6
    Q2:103.6
    Q3:101.3
    Q4:100.3


    It's almost as if even great QB's have Q's where stats don't look as great. Maybe when you split season sample sizes into 4 you get some variance that isn't some great mark of terrible inconsistency. You can go check all the Q splits on ESPN the reality is the only year his Q by Q variance has stood out as an oddity from other top QB's is last year. Otherwise most of the really good QB's are not "consistent" Q by Q in stats the way you portray it. For example Brees again in 2013 had a 1st half rating of 118 but dropped to 89 in the 2nd. Does that mean Brees is a wildly inconsistent QB or should you maybe rethink how you talk about stat variance? His career splits on Q by Q show that most of these "inconsistencies" even over larger sample sizes. Again based on stats and comparison to other QB's last year was the only year where quarter variance really stood out. So saying that is fine, but expanding it to a career issue is in fact anti-stat and has no basis.


    At best, you could say Brees has room to improve but that is such a universal opinion about every single player in the NFL that it is pretty meaningless without a lot of qualification.
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  • mrt144 wrote:
    erik2690 wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:but when you go at look at his game on a quarter by quarter basis things start falling apart. Last season he threw for almost as many INT as TDs, and had two quarters below 60 percent completion in his first three quarters. This has largely been the case throughout his career save for 2015.


    No. What metric are you using to say his Q's have been inconsistent besides 2015? This was only a large disparity last year. Like how do you say this BS thinking it won't get called out? Here's an example of why this line of reasoning is so silly.

    2014 RW passer rating: Q1:82.3
    Q2:100.6
    Q3:97.4
    Q4:96.2

    2014 Brees passer rating: Q1:81.6
    Q2:103.6
    Q3:101.3
    Q4:100.3


    It's almost as if even great QB's have Q's where stats don't look as great. Maybe when you split season sample sizes into 4 you get some variance that isn't some great mark of terrible inconsistency. You can go check all the Q splits on ESPN the reality is the only year his Q by Q variance has stood out as an oddity from other top QB's is last year. Otherwise most of the really good QB's are not "consistent" Q by Q in stats the way you portray it. For example Brees again in 2013 had a 1st half rating of 118 but dropped to 89 in the 2nd. Does that mean Brees is a wildly inconsistent QB or should you maybe rethink how you talk about stat variance? His career splits on Q by Q show that most of these "inconsistencies" even over larger sample sizes. Again based on stats and comparison to other QB's last year was the only year where quarter variance really stood out. So saying that is fine, but expanding it to a career issue is in fact anti-stat and has no basis.


    At best, you could say Brees has room to improve but that is such a universal opinion about every single player in the NFL that it is pretty meaningless without a lot of qualification.


    Yes, that would be a reasonable critique. Instead this was said: "THAT is inconsistency and this is something that is unique to Russ. The likes of Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc do not have this kind of struggle." Even comparing him purely to the best 3 QB's I think the rationale falls apart in seconds, but this went farther and claimed it was unique to Wilson which unless someone presents different evidence looks like a crazy claim based on the stats I'm seeing. Again 2017 fair argument, but beyond that it's a very silly tact.
    erik2690
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    Milehighhawk wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    mrt144 wrote:
    And what if he doesn't? Better flush RW and keep everyone else and just hope you hit on whatever replacement you cobble together despite the trail of sorrow left by the vast majority of QBs who enter the league? Better hope you didn't whiff on nearly every RB since Marshawn left, been stingy with retaining WRs, been comically inept with OL talent, somehow misuse a player and lose that players head when he was a bonafide stud when playing in an offensive scheme that were suited to their talents...

    He's already in the 90th percentile of QBs by almost any metric of your choosing. So you want specific instance betterness in like 5-10% of plays run? We all do but my goodness you're pining for a QB that hits like 80% of their attempts (and no points for throwing screens here)

    I want a QB that is consistent, that is what all of this work that Schottenheimer is doing with him is all about. Consistency. Something that Russ has severely lacked. Last season he was legendary in the fourth quarter, but he was horrid in every other. In his first three quarters last season he threw almost as many picks, as touchdowns, and in 2/4 of the quarters he completed less than 60 percent of his passes. In the first quarter it is particularly bad at 57 percent. Our offenses inability to produce until the last quarter was a huge issue last season. Did the lack of a running game, and line play a part? Absolutely. Did Russ play a part in that as well? You betcha.

    Russell Wilson does not know how to manipulate the pocket, and his footwork can get sloppy a times even with no pressure. His default is to back pedal, which makes the job of any lineman significantly harder. The reason why stepping up into the pocket is a thing, is it allows lineman to use the momentum of an edge rusher against them. One of the fundamental techniques is redirection. With Russ at QB that is not an option most of the time. Now --- he is able to get away with this when most QB's wouldn't because he is one of the most elusive QB's to ever put on cleats. He also has the uncanny ability to throw accurately from strange positions. Russ is the only QB that could get away with back peddling.

    So why does it matter if its been working for him might you ask? Russ's style is feast or famine. He'll pop off, and get long bomb after long bomb, or he will not be able to get out of his own way, and miss open receivers because his back is to them. Schottenheimer is trying to find a way to intermingle Russ's unique abilities with traditional QB play. This is an evolution he will have to make if he plans on playing in the league for an extended duration. We got a taste of what this looks like in 2015. I have no doubts in my mind that he could look like that every year if he refined his quarterback play.

    The scary thing is, Russell Wilson is still very rough around the edges. Imagine what he could be if he is ever able to refine his game? Brady who?


    Wilson is only second highest all time in QB Rating, but is “wildly inconsistent”. Yeah that makes a whole lot of sense.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    You just glossed over everything I said. I said at first glace he looks like the model of consistency, but when you go at look at his game on a quarter by quarter basis things start falling apart. Last season he threw for almost as many INT as TDs, and had two quarters below 60 percent completion in his first three quarters. This has largely been the case throughout his career save for 2015. THAT is inconsistency and this is something that is unique to Russ. The likes of Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc do not have this kind of struggle.

    The rope a dope style of play is not ideal. I'm not saying he is a bad QB, I'm saying there is still more room for improvement. I'm also saying implying that he needs to start thinking about evolving his style as he ages.


    Dude you need to check your "facts". If you want to be taken serious you should get the facts straight about your teams starting QB. Last season Wilson had 34 TD and 11 ints. Nowhere near "almost as many". :roll:

    You wanna throw out stuff like that then we may as well scratch the entire post as far as I'm concerned.
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  • Thank you erik.
    In a cemetery full of Tomahawks.
    Givin’ middle fingers to the pigeons doing somersaults.
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  • & It truly is super telling.
    Some things just seem like they will continue to hold true in this world.
    In a cemetery full of Tomahawks.
    Givin’ middle fingers to the pigeons doing somersaults.
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  • Seymour wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    Milehighhawk wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:I want a QB that is consistent, that is what all of this work that Schottenheimer is doing with him is all about. Consistency. Something that Russ has severely lacked. Last season he was legendary in the fourth quarter, but he was horrid in every other. In his first three quarters last season he threw almost as many picks, as touchdowns, and in 2/4 of the quarters he completed less than 60 percent of his passes. In the first quarter it is particularly bad at 57 percent. Our offenses inability to produce until the last quarter was a huge issue last season. Did the lack of a running game, and line play a part? Absolutely. Did Russ play a part in that as well? You betcha.

    Russell Wilson does not know how to manipulate the pocket, and his footwork can get sloppy a times even with no pressure. His default is to back pedal, which makes the job of any lineman significantly harder. The reason why stepping up into the pocket is a thing, is it allows lineman to use the momentum of an edge rusher against them. One of the fundamental techniques is redirection. With Russ at QB that is not an option most of the time. Now --- he is able to get away with this when most QB's wouldn't because he is one of the most elusive QB's to ever put on cleats. He also has the uncanny ability to throw accurately from strange positions. Russ is the only QB that could get away with back peddling.

    So why does it matter if its been working for him might you ask? Russ's style is feast or famine. He'll pop off, and get long bomb after long bomb, or he will not be able to get out of his own way, and miss open receivers because his back is to them. Schottenheimer is trying to find a way to intermingle Russ's unique abilities with traditional QB play. This is an evolution he will have to make if he plans on playing in the league for an extended duration. We got a taste of what this looks like in 2015. I have no doubts in my mind that he could look like that every year if he refined his quarterback play.

    The scary thing is, Russell Wilson is still very rough around the edges. Imagine what he could be if he is ever able to refine his game? Brady who?


    Wilson is only second highest all time in QB Rating, but is “wildly inconsistent”. Yeah that makes a whole lot of sense.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    You just glossed over everything I said. I said at first glace he looks like the model of consistency, but when you go at look at his game on a quarter by quarter basis things start falling apart. Last season he threw for almost as many INT as TDs, and had two quarters below 60 percent completion in his first three quarters. This has largely been the case throughout his career save for 2015. THAT is inconsistency and this is something that is unique to Russ. The likes of Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc do not have this kind of struggle.

    The rope a dope style of play is not ideal. I'm not saying he is a bad QB, I'm saying there is still more room for improvement. I'm also saying implying that he needs to start thinking about evolving his style as he ages.


    Dude you need to check your "facts". If you want to be taken serious you should get the facts straight about your teams starting QB. Last season Wilson had 34 TD and 11 ints. Nowhere near "almost as many". :roll:

    You wanna throw out stuff like that then we may as well scratch the entire post as far as I'm concerned.


    He's talking about the first three quarters in 2017, Seymour, not Wilson's overall stats for the year.
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  • Wilson '15-'17 Quarter by Quarter. Our Russ's TD > Int in all quarters, our Russ excelled in 4th, downright superman in 4th within 7 points. Come to think of it, '17 may be one of his finest year, playing with zero running game and an difunctional OL.
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  • I place a lot of blame for the early quarter struggles on the former OC’s erratic play calling, forcing Russell to takeover and make magic happen in the 4th quarter of games. But I guess we will see how much the consistency and offensive flow improve under a new play caller.
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  • adeltaY wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    Milehighhawk wrote:
    Wilson is only second highest all time in QB Rating, but is “wildly inconsistent”. Yeah that makes a whole lot of sense.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    You just glossed over everything I said. I said at first glace he looks like the model of consistency, but when you go at look at his game on a quarter by quarter basis things start falling apart. Last season he threw for almost as many INT as TDs, and had two quarters below 60 percent completion in his first three quarters. This has largely been the case throughout his career save for 2015. THAT is inconsistency and this is something that is unique to Russ. The likes of Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc do not have this kind of struggle.

    The rope a dope style of play is not ideal. I'm not saying he is a bad QB, I'm saying there is still more room for improvement. I'm also saying implying that he needs to start thinking about evolving his style as he ages.


    Dude you need to check your "facts". If you want to be taken serious you should get the facts straight about your teams starting QB. Last season Wilson had 34 TD and 11 ints. Nowhere near "almost as many". :roll:

    You wanna throw out stuff like that then we may as well scratch the entire post as far as I'm concerned.


    He's talking about the first three quarters in 2017, Seymour, not Wilson's overall stats for the year.


    Even the first 3 quarters is 15 to 10. Not exactly "almost as many" at +50%. :177692: People that exaggerate or distort the facts to prove their point lose the argument in my book.
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  • Seymour wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:You just glossed over everything I said. I said at first glace he looks like the model of consistency, but when you go at look at his game on a quarter by quarter basis things start falling apart. Last season he threw for almost as many INT as TDs, and had two quarters below 60 percent completion in his first three quarters. This has largely been the case throughout his career save for 2015. THAT is inconsistency and this is something that is unique to Russ. The likes of Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc do not have this kind of struggle.

    The rope a dope style of play is not ideal. I'm not saying he is a bad QB, I'm saying there is still more room for improvement. I'm also saying implying that he needs to start thinking about evolving his style as he ages.


    Dude you need to check your "facts". If you want to be taken serious you should get the facts straight about your teams starting QB. Last season Wilson had 34 TD and 11 ints. Nowhere near "almost as many". :roll:

    You wanna throw out stuff like that then we may as well scratch the entire post as far as I'm concerned.


    He's talking about the first three quarters in 2017, Seymour, not Wilson's overall stats for the year.


    Even the first 3 quarters is 15 to 10. Not exactly "almost as many" at +50%. :177692: People that exaggerate or distort the facts to prove their point lose the argument in my book.


    Had Spin Doctor said "in first two quarters of last season, WIlson threw for almost as many INT as TDs," he would be almost factually correct: 4TD vs 3 INT per quarter for the '17 season, off by 25% lol. He was correct in "had two quarters below 60 percent completion in his first three quarters." that would be 1st quarters 58% and 3rd quarters 58.3%.

    To me, the intriguing thing was sacks in 4th quarter vs the first three quarters. It was like either the OL flipped a switch in 4th, or more likely Wilson just made quicker decisions and throws in 4th.
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  • I think he just got mixed up with his wording. In the first two quarters, wilson had 8 TD and 6 INT - that's what he was looking at. I don't think he was intentionally making anything up.
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  • adeltaY wrote:I think he just got mixed up with his wording. In the first two quarters, wilson had 8 TD and 6 INT - that's what he was looking at. I don't think he was intentionally making anything up.

    Yeah, it is. I often time forget to proof read my post before commenting.

    As for my comments about Russell, I'm not saying he's bad. I'm saying he is uneven, and I'm saying that can be fixed. How he needs to play is how he was playing this preseason. Quick decision making and text book fundamentals. This is how he played in 2015 and that is when he was at his best. My main premise is that Russ still has a lot of room for an improvement. If he cashes in on his potential, all of this talk about Brady being the best will all of the sudden be who is second to Russell? I'm seeing a lot his potential being left on the table due to bad coaching.

    The main thing I'm getting at here is that what Schottenheimer is preaching is just what Russ needs to take the next step as a player. It is something that has been overlooked by Bevell, and our QB coach. It will make him more consistent, and public enemy number one in the NFL. I'm already seeing some dividends even in one preseason game.
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  • Popeyejones wrote:
    onanygivensunday wrote:Read in a recent article that Schotty wants him to stop and survey the field at the end of his drop back.


    Huh? Hope he didn’t say that because it has been decades since NFL offenses have worked like that.

    I’m generally against messing with QBs mechanics.


    Unless it was Kaepernick's.
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    mrt144 wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    toffee wrote:I read that Duane Brown was shouting at Russ after one play a few days ago. Between Duane and Doug, one can assume that Russ had some issues, hoping with help from teammates and new OC, Russ can improve.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Duane got in Russ's face on several occasions last season. As I keep saying, Russ makes Duane's job really hard to do. He really needs to work on his pocket movement to bring his game up to the next level.


    And what if he doesn't? Better flush RW and keep everyone else and just hope you hit on whatever replacement you cobble together despite the trail of sorrow left by the vast majority of QBs who enter the league? Better hope you didn't whiff on nearly every RB since Marshawn left, been stingy with retaining WRs, been comically inept with OL talent, somehow misuse a player and lose that players head when he was a bonafide stud when playing in an offensive scheme that were suited to their talents...

    He's already in the 90th percentile of QBs by almost any metric of your choosing. So you want specific instance betterness in like 5-10% of plays run? We all do but my goodness you're pining for a QB that hits like 80% of their attempts (and no points for throwing screens here)

    I want a QB that is consistent, that is what all of this work that Schottenheimer is doing with him is all about. Consistency. Something that Russ has severely lacked. Last season he was legendary in the fourth quarter, but he was horrid in every other. In his first three quarters last season he threw almost as many picks, as touchdowns, and in 2/4 of the quarters he completed less than 60 percent of his passes. In the first quarter it is particularly bad at 57 percent. Our offenses inability to produce until the last quarter was a huge issue last season. Did the lack of a running game, and line play a part? Absolutely. Did Russ play a part in that as well? You betcha.

    Russell Wilson does not know how to manipulate the pocket, and his footwork can get sloppy a times even with no pressure. His default is to back pedal, which makes the job of any lineman significantly harder. The reason why stepping up into the pocket is a thing, is it allows lineman to use the momentum of an edge rusher against them. One of the fundamental techniques is redirection. With Russ at QB that is not an option most of the time. Now --- he is able to get away with this when most QB's wouldn't because he is one of the most elusive QB's to ever put on cleats. He also has the uncanny ability to throw accurately from strange positions. Russ is the only QB that could get away with back peddling.

    So why does it matter if its been working for him might you ask? Russ's style is feast or famine. He'll pop off, and get long bomb after long bomb, or he will not be able to get out of his own way, and miss open receivers because his back is to them. Schottenheimer is trying to find a way to intermingle Russ's unique abilities with traditional QB play. This is an evolution he will have to make if he plans on playing in the league for an extended duration. We got a taste of what this looks like in 2015. I have no doubts in my mind that he could look like that every year if he refined his quarterback play.

    The scary thing is, Russell Wilson is still very rough around the edges. Imagine what he could be if he is ever able to refine his game? Brady who?


    Old habits die hard.

    Stick with what works. 161 TD passes in 6 seasons without great pocket presence?

    Don't change a thing.
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  • NINEster wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    mrt144 wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:Duane got in Russ's face on several occasions last season. As I keep saying, Russ makes Duane's job really hard to do. He really needs to work on his pocket movement to bring his game up to the next level.


    And what if he doesn't? Better flush RW and keep everyone else and just hope you hit on whatever replacement you cobble together despite the trail of sorrow left by the vast majority of QBs who enter the league? Better hope you didn't whiff on nearly every RB since Marshawn left, been stingy with retaining WRs, been comically inept with OL talent, somehow misuse a player and lose that players head when he was a bonafide stud when playing in an offensive scheme that were suited to their talents...

    He's already in the 90th percentile of QBs by almost any metric of your choosing. So you want specific instance betterness in like 5-10% of plays run? We all do but my goodness you're pining for a QB that hits like 80% of their attempts (and no points for throwing screens here)

    I want a QB that is consistent, that is what all of this work that Schottenheimer is doing with him is all about. Consistency. Something that Russ has severely lacked. Last season he was legendary in the fourth quarter, but he was horrid in every other. In his first three quarters last season he threw almost as many picks, as touchdowns, and in 2/4 of the quarters he completed less than 60 percent of his passes. In the first quarter it is particularly bad at 57 percent. Our offenses inability to produce until the last quarter was a huge issue last season. Did the lack of a running game, and line play a part? Absolutely. Did Russ play a part in that as well? You betcha.

    Russell Wilson does not know how to manipulate the pocket, and his footwork can get sloppy a times even with no pressure. His default is to back pedal, which makes the job of any lineman significantly harder. The reason why stepping up into the pocket is a thing, is it allows lineman to use the momentum of an edge rusher against them. One of the fundamental techniques is redirection. With Russ at QB that is not an option most of the time. Now --- he is able to get away with this when most QB's wouldn't because he is one of the most elusive QB's to ever put on cleats. He also has the uncanny ability to throw accurately from strange positions. Russ is the only QB that could get away with back peddling.

    So why does it matter if its been working for him might you ask? Russ's style is feast or famine. He'll pop off, and get long bomb after long bomb, or he will not be able to get out of his own way, and miss open receivers because his back is to them. Schottenheimer is trying to find a way to intermingle Russ's unique abilities with traditional QB play. This is an evolution he will have to make if he plans on playing in the league for an extended duration. We got a taste of what this looks like in 2015. I have no doubts in my mind that he could look like that every year if he refined his quarterback play.

    The scary thing is, Russell Wilson is still very rough around the edges. Imagine what he could be if he is ever able to refine his game? Brady who?


    Old habits die hard.

    Stick with what works. 161 TD passes in 6 seasons without great pocket presence?

    Don't change a thing.

    Other QB's have done it, QB's that made a name for themselves as mobile Quarterbacks even. The one season he really focused in on that aspect of his game he was at his best. It is a skill that doesn't degrade with age, or injury.
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  • Baldwin's always been outspoken and when things arent going well he let's it be known. That's OK, it's his way of motivating the offense. As far as the fans that throw shade at Wilson and call him inconsistent, Where were you before the Russell Wilson era? And, do you actually watch football? Russ's slow starts and miraculous comebacks are legendary and designed that way! Pete's entire coaching philosophy revolves around keeping it close and having a chance at the end. Guess what? It's worked more often than not! The seahawks are the second or third most successful team since like 2012. That's pretty good company! Jesus, I hope the bandwagon clears out soon so I can get tickets in lower level seats again.
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  • SpokaneHawks wrote:Baldwin's always been outspoken and when things arent going well he let's it be known. That's OK, it's his way of motivating the offense. As far as the fans that throw shade at Wilson and call him inconsistent, Where were you before the Russell Wilson era? And, do you actually watch football? Russ's slow starts and miraculous comebacks are legendary and designed that way! Pete's entire coaching philosophy revolves around keeping it close and having a chance at the end. Guess what? It's worked more often than not! The seahawks are the second or third most successful team since like 2012. That's pretty good company! Jesus, I hope the bandwagon clears out soon so I can get tickets in lower level seats again.

    Not a chance bro. The Griffen family and all of central Florida has moved in. :sarcasm_off:
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  • I interpreted Doug's comments as untapped potential in Russ vs throwing shade at him. I took at him saying how much better he could have been prior to now, based on how he was coached. There's been stories in the past how even some of the best QBs got better under different coaches. I recall hearing that when Holmgren first teamed up with Montana.

    Yeah I think Russ tried to do too much last year and bailed out of the pocket early at times or took a loss etc rather than just throwing it away. With better protection and new coaching that might go away. I thought of that even on the TD pass last night where when pressure came up the middle he rolled right immediately looking downfield and wondered if last year he would have done the spin move, kept backing up etc.
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:The main thing I'm getting at here is that what Schottenheimer is preaching is just what Russ needs to take the next step as a player. It is something that has been overlooked by Bevell, and our QB coach. It will make him more consistent, and public enemy number one in the NFL. I'm already seeing some dividends even in one preseason game.


    Yeah, I'm a bit surprised - perhaps I'm naive - that a comment about Russ being inconsistent within games is receiving such a backlash. We all love Russ, believe he's a huge part of our successes, and wouldn't trade him, but "high-variance" as Popeye repeatedly describes him seems pretty apt. He very rarely falls apart to the tune of multiple interceptions, but quite frequently just cannot manage to do anything early in games.

    I attribute a lot of this to crappy lines and coaching. So if we have a coach who is focused on keeping the offensive production more constant - there will be bad quarters of course - that's a good thing.

    So count me in as thinking that if Schottenheimer sees Russ with clear eyes and knows how to address his shortcomings we could be in for even more of a treat.
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  • toffee wrote:Wilson '15-'17 Quarter by Quarter. Our Russ's TD > Int in all quarters, our Russ excelled in 4th, downright superman in 4th within 7 points. Come to think of it, '17 may be one of his finest year, playing with zero running game and an difunctional OL.



    2016 -- 1st 1 has 1TD and 0 Int's so he sucks right?

    Look at the completion percentage compared to the other quarters........

    way better

    Is it possible that playcalling which we have all complained about was a reason for why his stats looks like they do?
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  • I ignore the last few words in Doug's statement and interpret it as

    How good we could have been if people that are paid to work with players actually did their freaking job and taught him how to take things to the next level. Then RW would have been able to do so and we would have been way better

    I don't read it as anything against RW. He is just stating that RW didn't follow some basic fundamentals which is interesting because all we heard is how much film he watched. Well if the coaches and the players aren't on the same page it doesn't translate to improvements
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  • I read this as Doug just full of himself. Laying another egg for attention. That's all!! He never spoke to why he started the fight with Percy either.
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  • mikeak wrote:I ignore the last few words in Doug's statement and interpret it as

    How good we could have been if people that are paid to work with players actually did their freaking job and taught him how to take things to the next level. Then RW would have been able to do so and we would have been way better

    I don't read it as anything against RW. He is just stating that RW didn't follow some basic fundamentals which is interesting because all we heard is how much film he watched. Well if the coaches and the players aren't on the same page it doesn't translate to improvements


    Thats how i read it as well... not everything has to have layers, inferences and drama. sometimes its as clear as "statement 1... taking notice of new coaches and work they're doing with QB"... "statement 2... imagine how good QB couldve been had he got this coaching earlier."

    and certainly RW can get better. There should not be any argument there. Seems Baldwin is stating he now has coaches that will help with that.
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  • Russ Willstrong wrote:I read this as Doug just full of himself. Laying another egg for attention. That's all!! He never spoke to why he started the fight with Percy either.


    Cause Percy was a terrible teammate? A cancer? :lol:
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  • I do think he had a better stance and stood his ground with exception to a couple of plays where he ran the ball himself. Overall he did well.
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  • nrayorr wrote:I do think he had a better stance and stood his ground with exception to a couple of plays where he ran the ball himself. Overall he did well.

    A clean pocket will do wonders for a QB.
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  • You guys find fault with Russell Wilson for everything no matter the circumstances. You are more Russell hater than Seahawk fan. He has been a great player for us despite being thrown out there on his own and now that he finally has a coach to work with he can be even better. It’s only taken a few weeks of camp working with the new staff for him to show improvement. Instead of being happy about that you are still bitching and moaning about him.
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  • brimsalabim wrote:You guys find fault with Russell Wilson for everything no matter the circumstances. You are more Russell hater than Seahawk fan. He has been a great player for us despite being thrown out there on his own and now that he finally has a coach to work with he can be even better. It’s only taken a few weeks of camp working with the new staff for him to show improvement. Instead of being happy about that you are still bitching and moaning about him.


    No one in this thread is bitching and moaning dude, come on. Pointing out ways our QB can improve, which Baldwin did BTW, is just football discussion. There are definitely Wilson haters on this board who don't think we should pay him 30M, that he can't throw over the middle, is inaccurate, etc. None of them posted on this thread.

    Would a Patriots fan pointing out a way Brady can improve be bitching and moaning? Cuz I heard that guy has done pretty well for the Pats...
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  • brimsalabim wrote:You guys find fault with Russell Wilson for everything no matter the circumstances. You are more Russell hater than Seahawk fan. He has been a great player for us despite being thrown out there on his own and now that he finally has a coach to work with he can be even better. It’s only taken a few weeks of camp working with the new staff for him to show improvement. Instead of being happy about that you are still bitching and moaning about him.


    I think a lot of folks in here that are critical of Wilson's performances of last season should be given a grade of 'Incomplete'.
    LOUSY Run game----Shit Coaching by Tom Cable had the Offensive Line embarrassing themselves.
    Bevell deserves his share of criticism's, BUT MOST of the blame rest squarely on Cable's shoulders---It's abundantly clear that it rankled the Seahawks Organization, because both he and his partner in crime were sent down the road kicking horse-turds.
    I'm trying to get my head around how some in here are not talking about DB pushing Tom Cable on the sidelines, trying to keep him from interfering with Wilson trying to get HIS O-Linemen on the same page.
    I'm also curious as to how many OC's could get that CRAP O-Line to perform UP to bottom of the League standards, because Russell Wilson was dealt a SHITTY HAND last season---Bevell was the OC, what he wasn't is a damned miracle worker.
    Schottenheimer is paired up with Solari, they share the responsibilities of CORRECTING the atrocious O-Line play, and I think THAT is what Doug Baldwin was trying to communicate.
    As for Russell Wilson, maybe NOW without all the helter-skelter, can take the necessary steps to upping his skillset and honing his craft.
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  • On Friday, Brock and Danny were talking about their feeling that Brandon Marshall is likely to make the team if he stays healthy. As part of that discussion, they stated that an added—and likely unexpected by Pete—benefit of his presence was having Marshall say that Russ is the best QB he’s played with and easily in list of the top few at the position. They feel guys in the locker room will take that opinion seriously because of Marshall’s status and tenure as a high-performing vet.

    I think Doug is right that Russ hadn’t quite taken that next step before now. There are myriad reasons for it. The important thing is that he does appear to have taken it now, based on what we are hearing.

    This bodes well.
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  • Not only was Russ locked in, he looked fast, focused and I loved the pace they were playing at with the 1's.
    He can and will improve as a player.
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  • NINEster wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:
    onanygivensunday wrote:Read in a recent article that Schotty wants him to stop and survey the field at the end of his drop back.


    Huh? Hope he didn’t say that because it has been decades since NFL offenses have worked like that.

    I’m generally against messing with QBs mechanics.


    Unless it was Kaepernick's.


    Krap isn't a QB anymore is he?
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  • You guys seem pretty thin skinned on Doug's comments. Haven't you ever had a coach or mentor you've gone to for input and they've just said, "You're doing fine."? That's when you plateau, because you no longer have a mentor. You are on your own.

    I find Doug's comments very encouraging. We know Russ is driven to be the best. We know he won't last as a QB running around like a Benny Hill skit until he's 40. The fact that Shotty has opened up a new world for our boy to grow into should make all us fans excited.
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  • Doug has been getting in Russ' grill for years, meh. They are just fine. He's always telling him to get it going, strap your sh on etc.
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  • If this was not Doug's normal personality it would be an issue, but Doug has always been a very direct and matter of fact type guy that says things point blank. It really is a non issue just calling out stuff he and Russ and everyone else knows about.
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  • I think we're a little envious of "other" quarterbacks and are wanting to see Russ take that next big leap--ala the usual suspects (Brees, Brady, etc.). He may simply never become those guys. we keep hearing about how great Russ is but we can all see the problems--some of which is and isn't his fault. But we've all seen what Russ can do when he has a clean pocket. I think I remember a stat during his second year where he was even more dangerous from the pocket that than when scrambling.

    If they can give Russ a decent pocket he will return to form. But right now, he's hearing footsteps and the alarm in his head is no doubt very loud after the abuse he's taken from being behind a shoddy o-line.
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  • I'm not envious. Other than Rodgers, Brady or Brees, I think he's as good as any QB in the league.
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  • Envious might be too strong a word, but the comparisons and expectations are there. I know for me they are there. I think Russ has all the tools, but like most qbs he needs the complimentary pieces in place to reach his full potential (coaching, playcalling, supporting cast, etc.). Again, he is not without his faults, but I want to see him take that leap to the next level.
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  • He's has the most wins in the history of the NFL in his first 6 seasons, and 2 trips to the Super Bowl.
    He not only has been one of the top QB's in the league, he's going to get even better.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:He's has the most wins in the history of the NFL in his first 6 seasons, and 2 trips to the Super Bowl.
    He not only has been one of the top QB's in the league, he's going to get even better.
    this!!


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  • thegameq wrote:I think we're a little envious of "other" quarterbacks and are wanting to see Russ take that next big leap--ala the usual suspects (Brees, Brady, etc.). He may simply never become those guys. we keep hearing about how great Russ is but we can all see the problems--some of which is and isn't his fault. But we've all seen what Russ can do when he has a clean pocket. I think I remember a stat during his second year where he was even more dangerous from the pocket that than when scrambling.

    If they can give Russ a decent pocket he will return to form. But right now, he's hearing footsteps and the alarm in his head is no doubt very loud after the abuse he's taken from being behind a shoddy o-line.

    Envious?, oh hell no...if Breese, Brady, Rodgers had been playing behind Wilsons mega-crappy O-Lines for the last 4 seasons, they'd probably all have to retire because of injuries.
    Their Coaches wouldn't put up with the lack of production of their O-Line nor their Coaching.
    Even Brady recognizes Russell Wilson as an "Elite Quarterback"---It takes one to know one, eh?
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  • thegameq wrote:I think we're a little envious of "other" quarterbacks and are wanting to see Russ take that next big leap--ala the usual suspects (Brees, Brady, etc.). He may simply never become those guys.


    What, the other guys who only won a single Super Bowl? I don't think Wilson has anything to apologize for.

    Brady is on a level of his own, aided by cheating and a brilliant all-time coach. Who also cheats.
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  • adeltaY wrote:Image

    Baldwin on Wilson during camp.


    I’m surprised Baldwin doesn’t get a week ban from .net for that one :sarcasm_on:
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