Cut Prosise tomorrow

adeltaY

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West TX Hawk":bu9h7m8u said:
For the Prosise advocates, what is it about his play from last season and his 1 preseason game this year that makes you feel he's an impact player? I'm genuinely curious what other folks see that I don't with this player.

Playing late in the 4th qtr in preseason is usually indicative of where Pete views one on the depth chart.

Prosise has shown the ability to create explosive plays like the 38 yard reception vs. the Pats and the 72 yard TD run vs. the Eagles. No knock on Mike Davis, I hope they can keep him too, but he doesn't have the same level of upside.

Prosise's ability to contribute comes down to health. In that respect, you may be right in keeping Davis over him because Davis has been much more durable. I'd keep CJ for another year while he's under club control if he can stay healthy and then reevaluate. If he gets hurt within that time frame, trade or cut him.
 

getnasty

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adeltaY":35k4kdyw said:
West TX Hawk":35k4kdyw said:
For the Prosise advocates, what is it about his play from last season and his 1 preseason game this year that makes you feel he's an impact player? I'm genuinely curious what other folks see that I don't with this player.

Playing late in the 4th qtr in preseason is usually indicative of where Pete views one on the depth chart.

Prosise has shown the ability to create explosive plays like the 38 yard reception vs. the Pats and the 72 yard TD run vs. the Eagles. No knock on Mike Davis, I hope they can keep him too, but he doesn't have the same level of upside.

Prosise's ability to contribute comes down to health. In that respect, you may be right in keeping Davis over him because Davis has been much more durable. I'd keep CJ for another year while he's under club control if he can stay healthy and then reevaluate. If he gets hurt within that time frame, trade or cut him.

I agree with this, really the only reason Mike Davis and Mckissic are on this team is health. Both are middle of the road players at best but not game changers. CJ can be that guy if he could ever stay healthy.
 

hawknation2018

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I thought Prosise looked sort of underwhelming in the last preseason game. He had a few nice plays (his first run, in particular) but seemed to fall down more easily on contact after that. I don’t know. The jury is still out on him, and his place on the roster is likely contingent on him both staying healthy enough to practice and playing well in the remaining two preseason games.
 

olyfan63

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West TX Hawk":26c14wys said:
For the Prosise advocates, what is it about his play from last season and his 1 preseason game this year that makes you feel he's an impact player? I'm genuinely curious what other folks see that I don't with this player.

Playing late in the 4th qtr in preseason is usually indicative of where Pete views one on the depth chart.

The case for Prosise is summarized in the 'Hawks road win at New England in Nov.2016.
https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/footb ... -patriots/

I've shared my hypothesis that Prosise had a severe shoulder/arm/wrist injury to one side, and a series of reinjuries to those parts, involving shoulder rotator cuff, labrum, nerves (e.g. ulnar nerve that runs full length of neck to hand, and median nerve) that the team has withheld information on, and has listed secondary "injuries" as the reason for holding him out. That hypothesis includes it seeming well enough to play on, and then getting reinjured/aggravated when Prosise did play on it.

Further, that type of shoulder/arm/wrist injury would be consistent with the supposed "injured in pregame warmups" phony story we get when Prosise is unavailable. I expect they ask Prosise to warm up with the team and try to go, and he reports what he feels, and the team then decides play, or no-play, based on what they think is best for his full recovery. Best guess is that one significant part of the injury happened sometime in Aug/Sept 2016, and that it has never fully healed to NFL-ready level, and keeps getting reinjured.

For another data point on NFL shoulder injuries and botched recoveries, read about Andrew Luck's shoulder injury. https://sports.yahoo.com/andrew-luck-no ... 25003.html

I think Prosise is a good-character, smart, hardworking athlete trying to work through a debilitating shoulder/arm/wrist injury that typically takes normal mortals 3-4 years to fully heal from, and even for elite athletes with the best medical support, can easily take 2 years to get back to full ability, and is prone to reinjury and setbacks during the process.

As far as playing late in the 4th quarter and depth chart, it's meaningless for a guy in a situation like Prosise's. It is basically the same as a MLB team sending a starting pitcher recovering from injury to a AA or AAA affiliate for a rehab assignment.

I've laid out what I believe to be the case. I could be wrong, I could be right. I think I'm probably 70-80% right, and the parts I'm wrong about would involve the detailed specifics of the major injury and repeated related collateral injuries. In any case, believing as I do, I can't find it in my heart to do anything but root for Prosise. So it seems a little cruel and short-sighted that so many are ready to kick Prosise to the curb (and then watch him excel for another team, most likely the Patriots). But hey, after all, this is the NFL - Not For Long, and it's a cutthroat business.

I hope that Prosise-haters can pause long enough to truly consider the alternate hypothesis I've shared, and give him the benefit of the doubt, and give some thought on whether to root for him, or continue down the "cut the malingerer yesterday" path. I think Prosise is a good character, hardworking, talented, smart, elite NFL athlete, and that he has many big plays *as a Seahawk* still in him, so I choose to root for him.
 

olyfan63

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hawknation2018":2fqxepru said:
For some reason, I feel more patient and optimistic about Prosise than I do Amara Darboh — who is, once again, not expected to play.

OMG, please start an "Amara Darboh Weekly Unavailability Thread" already! Let's have some fun with it, and a dedicated place to vent a little, share theories, etc.
 

chris98251

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olyfan63":2mqvl1c6 said:
West TX Hawk":2mqvl1c6 said:
For the Prosise advocates, what is it about his play from last season and his 1 preseason game this year that makes you feel he's an impact player? I'm genuinely curious what other folks see that I don't with this player.

Playing late in the 4th qtr in preseason is usually indicative of where Pete views one on the depth chart.

The case for Prosise is summarized in the 'Hawks road win at New England in Nov.2016.
https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/footb ... -patriots/

I've shared my hypothesis that Prosise had a severe shoulder/arm/wrist injury to one side, and a series of reinjuries to those parts, involving shoulder rotator cuff, labrum, nerves (e.g. ulnar nerve that runs full length of neck to hand, and median nerve) that the team has withheld information on, and has listed secondary "injuries" as the reason for holding him out. That hypothesis includes it seeming well enough to play on, and then getting reinjured/aggravated when Prosise did play on it.

Further, that type of shoulder/arm/wrist injury would be consistent with the supposed "injured in pregame warmups" phony story we get when Prosise is unavailable. I expect they ask Prosise to warm up with the team and try to go, and he reports what he feels, and the team then decides play, or no-play, based on what they think is best for his full recovery. Best guess is that one significant part of the injury happened sometime in Aug/Sept 2016, and that it has never fully healed to NFL-ready level, and keeps getting reinjured.

For another data point on NFL shoulder injuries and botched recoveries, read about Andrew Luck's shoulder injury. https://sports.yahoo.com/andrew-luck-no ... 25003.html

I think Prosise is a good-character, smart, hardworking athlete trying to work through a debilitating shoulder/arm/wrist injury that typically takes normal mortals 3-4 years to fully heal from, and even for elite athletes with the best medical support, can easily take 2 years to get back to full ability, and is prone to reinjury and setbacks during the process.

As far as playing late in the 4th quarter and depth chart, it's meaningless for a guy in a situation like Prosise's. It is basically the same as a MLB team sending a starting pitcher recovering from injury to a AA or AAA affiliate for a rehab assignment.

I've laid out what I believe to be the case. I could be wrong, I could be right. I think I'm probably 70-80% right, and the parts I'm wrong about would involve the detailed specifics of the major injury and repeated related collateral injuries. In any case, believing as I do, I can't find it in my heart to do anything but root for Prosise. So it seems a little cruel and short-sighted that so many are ready to kick Prosise to the curb (and then watch him excel for another team, most likely the Patriots). But hey, after all, this is the NFL - Not For Long, and it's a cutthroat business.

I hope that Prosise-haters can pause long enough to truly consider the alternate hypothesis I've shared, and give him the benefit of the doubt, and give some thought on whether to root for him, or continue down the "cut the malingerer yesterday" path. I think Prosise is a good character, hardworking, talented, smart, elite NFL athlete, and that he has many big plays *as a Seahawk* still in him, so I choose to root for him.

As a human being I agree, as a football player on a team he is on his last leg, all the potential and impact he COULD have is never going to be seen if he is not able to play. Davis and McKissic may be consisdered to be a half step back but guess what, they are making plays, they are in games, they are contributing.
 

AgentDib

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scutterhawk":r7vgr872 said:
AgentDib":r7vgr872 said:
Prosise's cap hit is 800k this season and less than 1m next season. If he gets injured he goes on PUP/IR and doesn't take up a roster spot. I don't see a good reason to cut him right now.
Because he's taking up a roster spot that could be better used on someone who might be available to PLAY.
I mean hell...there are players that are more deserving to be on the Seahawks 53.
I think Prosise is exactly the sort of player you want to fill some of your 90 man roster spots. Unlikely to succeed but cheap with a high upside. Whether he should make the 53 depends on who we would be cutting to keep him and whether they would stick on our practice squad. Maybe I'm just less enamored with our 45-53 range of talent than you are.
 

olyfan63

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chris98251":3bndzs4x said:
olyfan63":3bndzs4x said:
--snip--

I hope that Prosise-haters can pause long enough to truly consider the alternate hypothesis I've shared, and give him the benefit of the doubt, and give some thought on whether to root for him, or continue down the "cut the malingerer yesterday" path. I think Prosise is a good character, hardworking, talented, smart, elite NFL athlete, and that he has many big plays *as a Seahawk* still in him, so I choose to root for him.

As a human being I agree, as a football player on a team he is on his last leg, all the potential and impact he COULD have is never going to be seen if he is not able to play. Davis and McKissic may be consisdered to be a half step back but guess what, they are making plays, they are in games, they are contributing.

At some point in the future, the truth about Prosise and his REAL injury history will come out in the wash.
He is a legit NFL talent. Will he be able to be available. As I said, I think the team has been concealing information about what Prosise's REAL injury issues are. I believe he had a major, traumatic arm,shoulder, wrist injury, along the lines of Jeremy Lane's folding forearm, but involving his shoulder joint. Those suckers can take a couple years to truly heal, when the shoulder joint, nerves, wrist, etc. are involved. There can be lots of setbacks and mysteries in the recovery process.
Just ask Andrew Luck.

The team has this year and next year for team control of Prosise. I think we totally ARE looking at a Paul Richardson type situation. Physically talented player, legit injuries, but also legit desire, work ethic, and toughness to get back on the field.

McKissic and Davis are the role players we hope can keep this thing moving in the meantime. The Hawks are not going to release Prosise, unless they deem his major shoulder/arm injury to be unrecoverable from, and then they would probably need to reach some sort of injury settlement.

In the meantime, we've got Rashaad Penny's development to look forward to, and the exciting play of a healthy Chris Carson.

Of the Hawks RBs, who gains more yards from scrimmage this year during the regular season, Carson, Penny, Prosise, Davis, McKissic? And in what order? I'm predicting Carson, Prosise, Penny, McKissic, Davis, in that order. McKissic or Davis may not make the roster.
 

Russ Willstrong

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olyfan63":o2aj9ekx said:
chris98251":o2aj9ekx said:
olyfan63":o2aj9ekx said:
--snip--

I hope that Prosise-haters can pause long enough to truly consider the alternate hypothesis I've shared, and give him the benefit of the doubt, and give some thought on whether to root for him, or continue down the "cut the malingerer yesterday" path. I think Prosise is a good character, hardworking, talented, smart, elite NFL athlete, and that he has many big plays *as a Seahawk* still in him, so I choose to root for him.

As a human being I agree, as a football player on a team he is on his last leg, all the potential and impact he COULD have is never going to be seen if he is not able to play. Davis and McKissic may be consisdered to be a half step back but guess what, they are making plays, they are in games, they are contributing.

At some point in the future, the truth about Prosise and his REAL injury history will come out in the wash.
He is a legit NFL talent. Will he be able to be available. As I said, I think the team has been concealing information about what Prosise's REAL injury issues are. I believe he had a major, traumatic arm,shoulder, wrist injury, along the lines of Jeremy Lane's folding forearm, but involving his shoulder joint. Those suckers can take a couple years to truly heal, when the shoulder joint, nerves, wrist, etc. are involved. There can be lots of setbacks and mysteries in the recovery process.
Just ask Andrew Luck.

The team has this year and next year for team control of Prosise. I think we totally ARE looking at a Paul Richardson type situation. Physically talented player, legit injuries, but also legit desire, work ethic, and toughness to get back on the field.

McKissic and Davis are the role players we hope can keep this thing moving in the meantime. The Hawks are not going to release Prosise, unless they deem his major shoulder/arm injury to be unrecoverable from, and then they would probably need to reach some sort of injury settlement.

In the meantime, we've got Rashaad Penny's development to look forward to, and the exciting play of a healthy Chris Carson.

Of the Hawks RBs, who gains more yards from scrimmage this year during the regular season, Carson, Penny, Prosise, Davis, McKissic? And in what order? I'm predicting Carson, Prosise, Penny, McKissic, Davis, in that order. McKissic or Davis may not make the roster.
Why would PC pr JS try to CONCEAL an injury for a player on the bubble. Carson and Penny makes him expendable if he is unhealthy/unreliable. Also, most NFL players aren't 100% healthy during the season anyway but most want playing time to earn that pay and recognition. Even when Prosise is declared a "full go" he has had trouble making it beyond a few games. He doesn't appear to be favoring any part of his body during this last game so I suspect they injury you speak of may be in his head.
 

olyfan63

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Russ Willstrong":1jx25ptq said:
Why would PC pr JS try to CONCEAL an injury for a player on the bubble. Carson and Penny makes him expendable if he is unhealthy/unreliable. Also, most NFL players aren't 100% healthy during the season anyway but most want playing time to earn that pay and recognition. Even when Prosise is declared a "full go" he has had trouble making it beyond a few games. He doesn't appear to be favoring any part of his body during this last game so I suspect they injury you speak of may be in his head.

Prosise is not a bubble player. Doncha think a bubble player would have been cut long, long ago?
The Hawks have treated Prosise as a quality NFL player who they hope/expect to eventually return to star-level form.
NFL teams regularly conceal or selectively report injuries for their own hidden purposes.

Do have a read of a bit of the piece on Andrew Luck and his shoulder injury that's wiped out nearly two years of his career, for the injury to heal to where Luck can throw at an NFL level. https://sports.yahoo.com/andrew-luck-no ... 25003.html
Prosise had an injury described as a "fractured scapula". The experts say it takes one hell of a lot of force and impact to cause that injury, and there are likely to be collateral injuries from that type of impact. I do have some direct personal experience with shoulder internal tissue injuries (rotator cuff), and arm and wrist injuries involving internal tissues like nerves. Did the Hawks botch Prosise's diagnosis ,treatment, and rehab? Did Prosise pull an Andrew Luck and sabotage his recovery by trying to do too much too soon? I wouldn't expect the team to reveal that kind of information.

I've put forward an alternate theory to explain what could be going on in the Prosise situation.
What's your theory---that Prosise is made of glass and is a malingerer? If so, I don't blame you... That's the default theory the Hawks have allowed to flourish, and I say it's ludicrous, and does NOT begin to explain the team's actions and choices with Prosise.
 

Spin Doctor

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olyfan63":37u8vlej said:
Russ Willstrong":37u8vlej said:
Why would PC pr JS try to CONCEAL an injury for a player on the bubble. Carson and Penny makes him expendable if he is unhealthy/unreliable. Also, most NFL players aren't 100% healthy during the season anyway but most want playing time to earn that pay and recognition. Even when Prosise is declared a "full go" he has had trouble making it beyond a few games. He doesn't appear to be favoring any part of his body during this last game so I suspect they injury you speak of may be in his head.

Prosise is not a bubble player. Doncha think a bubble player would have been cut long, long ago?
The Hawks have treated Prosise as a quality NFL player who they hope/expect to eventually return to star-level form.
NFL teams regularly conceal or selectively report injuries for their own hidden purposes.

Do have a read of a bit of the piece on Andrew Luck and his shoulder injury that's wiped out nearly two years of his career, for the injury to heal to where Luck can throw at an NFL level. https://sports.yahoo.com/andrew-luck-no ... 25003.html
Prosise had an injury described as a "fractured scapula". The experts say it takes one hell of a lot of force and impact to cause that injury, and there are likely to be collateral injuries from that type of impact. I do have some direct personal experience with shoulder internal tissue injuries (rotator cuff), and arm and wrist injuries involving internal tissues like nerves. Did the Hawks botch Prosise's diagnosis ,treatment, and rehab? Did Prosise pull an Andrew Luck and sabotage his recovery by trying to do too much too soon? I wouldn't expect the team to reveal that kind of information.

I've put forward an alternate theory to explain what could be going on in the Prosise situation.
What's your theory---that Prosise is made of glass and is a malingerer? If so, I don't blame you... That's the default theory the Hawks have allowed to flourish, and I say it's ludicrous, and does NOT begin to explain the team's actions and choices with Prosise.
This is in all find and good, but Prosise had injury problems back in college as well. Some people just don't have bodies that are durable enough to play in the NFL. That is just the way things are.
 

Rocket

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Rocket":x61uedm5 said:
He's due. Give the man a(nother) shot, some good will, a prayer.
Oh ye of little faith. Prosise will surprise, positively.
Told ya... :2thumbs:
 
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