Skip and Shannon

Uncle Si":3fs9wic7 said:

Honestly though,

wouldn't the team be basically in the same position even if they had won that game?

I mean how much of the team's current predicaments are based on whether or not Lynch scores or Wilson completes the pass?

It sucked for fans and the players. But I struggle to see the direct connection between that play and now. Bennett, Sherman, Graham, Lynch, the Richardson's, Avril, Kam would still not be on this team regardless.

Click to expand...

Uncle Si":1fnz6uuu said:

Honestly though,

wouldn't the team be basically in the same position even if they had won that game?

I mean how much of the team's current predicaments are based on whether or not Lynch scores or Wilson completes the pass?

It sucked for fans and the players. But I struggle to see the direct connection between that play and now. Bennett, Sherman, Graham, Lynch, the Richardson's, Avril, Kam would still not be on this team regardless.

Click to expand...

Uncle Si":11swp9gi said:

Honestly though,

wouldn't the team be basically in the same position even if they had won that game?

I mean how much of the team's current predicaments are based on whether or not Lynch scores or Wilson completes the pass?

It sucked for fans and the players. But I struggle to see the direct connection between that play and now. Bennett, Sherman, Graham, Lynch, the Richardson's, Avril, Kam would still not be on this team regardless.

Click to expand...

Uncle Si":1v8k1beu said:

All those players were here the year after the loss and got hammered by the Panthers in the playoffs.

Were they so dumbstruck by that loss that they pulled it together for a season only to REALLY let it bother them in the playoffs?

Come on.. people are stronger than that. They snuck into that Super Bowl to begin with. they had a great run to end the regular season with historic QB play the year after and got bullied by a better Panthers team. That's where it started to unravel. A lot of people think that way, too.

And let's say they 3-peat. Where are those players today, which is what i was asking? they're still hurt, old, gone. Why would an aging, injured Sherman with a bad wheel and 11 million be any more tantalizing to the team with a Super Bowl win then without it? Bennett the same. You think winning was going to suddenly resolve their attitudes?

The Play tarnished a legacy. It's impact on the team now is probably a bit more complicated then "its the reason we suck"

I can buy the morale thing, but still... none to a couple of the aforementioned players would be here for a variety (money, injury, age) reasons.

The Play is just an easy, lazy target for a far more complicated cycle of events (overpaying vets, bad trades, bad drafts, poor coaching, defense heavy contracts, poor teammates). hell, if anything, its just part of a much larger cycle, rather than being THE issue.

It's reductive (and honestly narrow minded) to find blame in one side of any of this. But it's not one play, regardless of that play's significance. This was always a teeter-totter over a cache of dynamite. When perfectly balanced it was a great thing. But it was always delicate... and fleeting.

Click to expand...

Uncle Si":2tzk5xie said:

All those players were here the year after the loss and got hammered by the Panthers in the playoffs.

Were they so dumbstruck by that loss that they pulled it together for a season only to REALLY let it bother them in the playoffs?

Come on.. people are stronger than that. They snuck into that Super Bowl to begin with. they had a great run to end the regular season with historic QB play the year after and got bullied by a better Panthers team. That's where it started to unravel. A lot of people think that way, too.

And let's say they 3-peat. Where are those players today, which is what i was asking? they're still hurt, old, gone. Why would an aging, injured Sherman with a bad wheel and 11 million be any more tantalizing to the team with a Super Bowl win then without it? Bennett the same. You think winning was going to suddenly resolve their attitudes?

The Play tarnished a legacy. It's impact on the team now is probably a bit more complicated then "its the reason we suck"

I can buy the morale thing, but still... none to a couple of the aforementioned players would be here for a variety (money, injury, age) reasons.

The Play is just an easy, lazy target for a far more complicated cycle of events (overpaying vets, bad trades, bad drafts, poor coaching, defense heavy contracts, poor teammates). hell, if anything, its just part of a much larger cycle, rather than being THE issue.

It's reductive (and honestly narrow minded) to find blame in one side of any of this. But it's not one play, regardless of that play's significance. This was always a teeter-totter over a cache of dynamite. When perfectly balanced it was a great thing. But it was always delicate... and fleeting.

Click to expand...

Uncle Si":1ks6scqo said:

Still nothing to do with the current state of the team. Which... was the point.

Click to expand...

pittpnthrs":1te4z6tf said:

Uncle Si":1te4z6tf said:

Still nothing to do with the current state of the team. Which... was the point.

Click to expand...

I see what your saying and where your going Si, but I think if that play never happened, we still have Sherman and Bennett and the defense would be better off. Just my opinion.

Click to expand...

Uncle Si":143kvl8t said:

pittpnthrs":143kvl8t said:

Uncle Si":143kvl8t said:

Still nothing to do with the current state of the team. Which... was the point.

Click to expand...

I see what your saying and where your going Si, but I think if that play never happened, we still have Sherman and Bennett and the defense would be better off. Just my opinion.

Click to expand...

Yeah, it's an unknown. And maybe with them the defense (and team) is better off.

But... they were on the team the last two years and the wheels were wobbling (why the notion of a 3-peat is absurd in my opinion). They can assign that to "the play" but it they were getting blown out in the NFC championship game before it. were on a roll heading into the playoffs the year after.

It seems to only rear its head when things dont go well. Which tells me the players focused on it were struggling with something else all together and form that, I cant see how success or failure was going to make much difference long term.

Click to expand...

hawksincebirth":2sqn7qt8 said:

Uncle Si":2sqn7qt8 said:

pittpnthrs":2sqn7qt8 said:

Uncle Si":2sqn7qt8 said:

Still nothing to do with the current state of the team. Which... was the point.

Click to expand...

I see what your saying and where your going Si, but I think if that play never happened, we still have Sherman and Bennett and the defense would be better off. Just my opinion.

Click to expand...

Yeah, it's an unknown. And maybe with them the defense (and team) is better off.

But... they were on the team the last two years and the wheels were wobbling (why the notion of a 3-peat is absurd in my opinion). They can assign that to "the play" but it they were getting blown out in the NFC championship game before it. were on a roll heading into the playoffs the year after.

It seems to only rear its head when things dont go well. Which tells me the players focused on it were struggling with something else all together and form that, I cant see how success or failure was going to make much difference long term.

Click to expand...

It’s kinda like a toxic relationship yea the sex may be great, but it’s not gonna Work.. Morale and that play cost pete the teams trust and lost his dynasty ultimately

Click to expand...

Uncle Si":3tfhhm1l said:

hawksincebirth":3tfhhm1l said:

Uncle Si":3tfhhm1l said:

pittpnthrs":3tfhhm1l said:

I see what your saying and where your going Si, but I think if that play never happened, we still have Sherman and Bennett and the defense would be better off. Just my opinion.

Click to expand...

Yeah, it's an unknown. And maybe with them the defense (and team) is better off.

But... they were on the team the last two years and the wheels were wobbling (why the notion of a 3-peat is absurd in my opinion). They can assign that to "the play" but it they were getting blown out in the NFC championship game before it. were on a roll heading into the playoffs the year after.

It seems to only rear its head when things dont go well. Which tells me the players focused on it were struggling with something else all together and form that, I cant see how success or failure was going to make much difference long term.

Click to expand...

It’s kinda like a toxic relationship yea the sex may be great, but it’s not gonna Work.. Morale and that play cost pete the teams trust and lost his dynasty ultimately

Click to expand...

I dont think "that play" was the issue why PC, Wilson and the defense's relationship turned toxic. It was probably always going to go that way. The play is an easy target. They were yelling at each other long before that. What would have happened if they dont recover the on-side kick? You think the defense wouldve been quiet about the INTs in the NFC championship loss?

And while it cost them back to back Super Bowls, the play was in the rear view mirror until they got shit canned by the Panthers.

It was a matter of time. Winning just kept things in balance.

Click to expand...