Passing game is unacceptable for an NFL offense

Bobblehead":qp8w4l38 said:

One glaring thing I noticed..well two, we cant stop the run and we really missed fluker.

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Rams have a great scheme and if you commit to one you give up the other, we went with zone pass and tried to stop the run with limited LB support, thats where Gurley got those strech hand offs and gashed us since we were dropping back in pass defense, when we went one over center it wasn't there but the pass defense suffered a bit.


I still think Wagner and Wright were hurting and so was McDougald, we did not have the speed and gap filling we had when we got them at home. Yes I know Wright didn't play that game but we played better defense over all I thought.

Northwest Seahawk":3b1wdspn said:

Scorpion05":3b1wdspn said:

Northwest Seahawk":3b1wdspn said:

Wilson is overrated . Why pay him 35 million a year to do a job any descent QB could handle this offense can't throw for a reason . Wilson is simply unable to find a WR quickly over the middle because he can't see the field, it's holding back this offense. WE ONLY HAD SUCCES WHEN WE AVERAGE 5 YARDS A CARRY EVERY TIME WE HAVE TO THROW IT BECOMES A CRAP SHOW. You don't give a QB top 5 money to be a game manager Wilson cannot carry an offense.

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Why troll with this negativity? The thread was mostly constructive and thoughtful before this crap. Unlike Goff Wilson didn't have 10 seconds to throw all day and wide open receivers every drop back. 2 out of 3 of his TD passes were tight window throws

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So your saying the O-line is the reason our passing game is underperforming OK but Wilson is the QB and he just can't seem to make the plays when we need them. He's a good QB he's not an elite QB at all if they pay him 30 plus million a year your going to see alot more 7-9 season's.

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What is this 'when we need them' BS? We need them all game and his numbers in the last 6 games when we've had all this rushing success are 120 passer rating, 14 TD's/2 Int's and 8 ypa. You like those numbers?

We had 414 yards of total offense, only 40 less than the Rams #1 ranked O.
Wilson had 92 yards rushing to add to his 176 passing yards and tossed 3 TDs as well. While rushing yards don't count towards the passing game, the lanes opened up as a result of running and Wilson ran for 1st after 1st after 1st on the Rams
We scored 31 points - more than any other losing team, more than 6 winning teams, in fact more than all but 5 teams this week.
Wilson threw 4 of his 9 incomplete passes on the final set of downs (including the spike), when we needed sideline passes and to stop the clock from rolling, and while yes, he missed a makeable pass to Lockett on 4th down (as well as probably one other to Moore in the first half that he threw too close to the ground as the only other egregious error he made).

When you are able to run for 273 yards in a game you don't need your passing game to be high volume, you need efficiency and effectiveness. Going into the final drive Wilson was 16/20 for 150 yards (plus 80 on the ground), 3 TDs and 0 ints - every team in the league would take that.

In all 5 losses this year, we were in the game in the 4th Quarter. We stood toe to toe with the often worshiped Rams, AGAIN. This team is not far from being real good. Just gotta' learn to finish better.

All the Seahawks are doing is taking a page out of Chuck Knox's philosophy. Run the ball on 1st & 2nd downs, and if a first down has not been achieved, then we are left with 3rd and a very manageable short yardage situation.

Sometimes mixing things up with a short swing pass,screens and yes a draw play on 3rd downs. Its all about leading the defense into them thinking one direction and going another.

Frankly, with this team its a pretty darn wise philosophy if you ask me. If we start throwing the ball a bunch were just going to get Russ hurt. Embrace the running game my friends.
Cheers

Coug_Hawk08":2plsglwu said:

Can not win consistently running 60%+ of the time. Too much clock, too high of expectations on low percentage pass plays. It’s a dumb strategy in today’s nfl.

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Total Rubbish. BALANCED FOOTBALL is the recipe to winning longterm. Go look at the teams that win the Super Bowl. Most are teams with a solid running game and a complementary defense. Look at Aaron Rodgers, only 1 Super Bowl appearance and that was only because of a stronger defense and solid running game. All pass games benefit from good running game. Look at KC and Saints, both have elite RB's who can carry and catch the ball. The Eagles last year also had a great running game.

I do think there are a few times where we become to predictive with running mostly on 1st down-- The Chargers seem to be selling out on 1st down. But generally speaking if your running 150 yards a game that will open up things in the passing game.

The problem I'm seeing the last 2 weeks is RW isn't completing the big plays he needs to-- He underthrew a wide open Jaron Brown in the Chargers game which would could have altered the game (also the ridiculous Offensive PI had an impact) There was another throw in the Rams game that skipped off the ground. He needs to capitalize on those opportunities.

hawk45":1lm893p3 said:

I love the run blocking and the YPC is eye popping. I'm fine with running a ton in fact prefer it.

It's just...with that dominance it's remarkable to me that when we do pass we cannot leverage that best in NFL run threat to get some easy completions. The pass offense should be in tall cotton when it has to function and instead you'd swear you were watching a team with no run threat where the D knows exactly what pass play is coming.

I do not know what to make of it. Sure feels like a coaching failure.

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I agree. It's really suspicious that we have arguably the best rushing offense in the league and a passing game that's 8th in YPA and 6th in passer rating, yet somehow still manages to be 15th in PPG and 22nd in YPG. That's an indication that the offense is highly efficient but due to coaching, game pace, etc, is leaving points on the table, and even more frustrating, is likely doing it intentionally. For one thing, we're dead last in passing attempts, even behind teams like Buffalo and Arizona that have no hint of a passing game.

ducks41468":z2w2zwd5 said:

hawk45":z2w2zwd5 said:

I love the run blocking and the YPC is eye popping. I'm fine with running a ton in fact prefer it.

It's just...with that dominance it's remarkable to me that when we do pass we cannot leverage that best in NFL run threat to get some easy completions. The pass offense should be in tall cotton when it has to function and instead you'd swear you were watching a team with no run threat where the D knows exactly what pass play is coming.

I do not know what to make of it. Sure feels like a coaching failure.

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I agree. It's really suspicious that we have arguably the best rushing offense in the league and a passing game that's 8th in YPA and 6th in passer rating, yet somehow still manages to be 15th in PPG and 22nd in YPG. That's an indication that the offense is highly efficient but due to coaching, game pace, etc, is leaving points on the table, and even more frustrating, is likely doing it intentionally. For one thing, we're dead last in passing attempts, even behind teams like Buffalo and Arizona that have no hint of a passing game.

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The lack of pass attempts makes sense situationally though - We aren't being absolutely forced into pass heavy offenses to the point of no return until really late into the game (if then even. Certainly with 6 minutes left against the Rams it seemed inexplicable to keep running it and the lackadaisically shambling to the line and burning clock to set up what would be an even higher leverage drive with even more importance on a cogent passing game). We haven't been passing because haven't really 'needed' to in the same way the hapless bottom feeders have.

On the other hand - we shy away from it so much, even if not by design, that it isn't that far a reach to think that our lack of aptitude in that regard might be related to shying away from it and not getting opportunities to flesh it out cogently during game time. It's an emergency fire extinguisher that is only half full and the coaching staff thinks we can just throw a blanket over the inferno like we do most the time.

And while the silver lining might be "That's great - we keep a game tight and then have our shot to win it definitively on the last drive" and I say that the rub is they orient so very much towards drawing it down to one drive integral drive that they paint themselves into a corner with something they aren't proficient at. And being painted into a corner isn't a good thing by and large.

I wouldn't call it unacceptable.

But like I said in another thread, we do need a better run/pass balance. Can't have 39 yards of passing after two quarters like Sunday, have to get Russell and the receivers involved in the offense sooner than the 4th quarter.

So that's all I'm asking for, better balance.

Sgt. Largent":2xxkz3kh said:

I wouldn't call it unacceptable.

But like I said in another thread, we do need a better run/pass balance. Can't have 39 yards of passing after two quarters like Sunday, have to get Russell and the receivers involved in the offense sooner than the 4th quarter.

So that's all I'm asking for, better balance.

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You mean we can't just flip a switch and win using tactics we consistently avoid through most the game?

Sheesh!

mrt144":250j9zuy said:

Sgt. Largent":250j9zuy said:

I wouldn't call it unacceptable.

But like I said in another thread, we do need a better run/pass balance. Can't have 39 yards of passing after two quarters like Sunday, have to get Russell and the receivers involved in the offense sooner than the 4th quarter.

So that's all I'm asking for, better balance.

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You mean we can't just flip a switch and win using tactics we consistently avoid through most the game?

Sheesh!

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Crazy, I know.

"Why does Russell look so indecisive in the four and two minute offenses and the O-line all of a sudden can't pass protect in the 4th quarter when we're trying to come from behind!"

Maybe cause we had 10 pass plays the entire game up until that point and never once ran up tempo?

Sgt. Largent":2n87nz6s said:

mrt144":2n87nz6s said:

Sgt. Largent":2n87nz6s said:

I wouldn't call it unacceptable.

But like I said in another thread, we do need a better run/pass balance. Can't have 39 yards of passing after two quarters like Sunday, have to get Russell and the receivers involved in the offense sooner than the 4th quarter.

So that's all I'm asking for, better balance.

Click to expand...

You mean we can't just flip a switch and win using tactics we consistently avoid through most the game?

Sheesh!

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Crazy, I know.

"Why does Russell look so indecisive in the four and two minute offenses and the O-line all of a sudden can't pass protect in the 4th quarter when we're trying to come from behind!"

Maybe cause we had 10 pass plays the entire game up until that point and never once ran up tempo?

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I think this two post exchange sums up what I was overly verbose about in the other thread.

mrt144":300gojt5 said:

Sgt. Largent":300gojt5 said:

mrt144":300gojt5 said:

Sgt. Largent":300gojt5 said:

I wouldn't call it unacceptable.

But like I said in another thread, we do need a better run/pass balance. Can't have 39 yards of passing after two quarters like Sunday, have to get Russell and the receivers involved in the offense sooner than the 4th quarter.

So that's all I'm asking for, better balance.

Click to expand...

You mean we can't just flip a switch and win using tactics we consistently avoid through most the game?

Sheesh!

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Crazy, I know.

"Why does Russell look so indecisive in the four and two minute offenses and the O-line all of a sudden can't pass protect in the 4th quarter when we're trying to come from behind!"

Maybe cause we had 10 pass plays the entire game up until that point and never once ran up tempo?

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I think this two post exchange sums up what I was overly verbose about in the other thread.

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This also puts a crazy amount of pressure on them to execute when every third down is an obvious passing play. Getting to third and manageable is a good goal but rarely straying from run-run-pass lets the defense get comfortable. One good play by the defense likely results in a punt. 2/9 on third down while rushing for 273? They have to stretch the field once in awhile other than on 3rd to keep them honest, second week in a row against a good team they adjusted to fully defending the run on first and second and weren't punished for it. I think I saw Russ was 8/8 on play action going into the final drives.... why wasn't this utilized more, especially on early downs? Easy completions makes running even easier when they get frozen on play action.

Running the ball this well is awesome but there has to be a little bit of variance in play calls or else they will be seeing 8 man boxes on first and second the rest of the season and then pass rushers on 3rd. I saw on twitter a stat saying if a pass is called on first (rare), they run the ball on 2nd something like 95% of the time. League is way too metric driven at this point to tip your hand and give the defense an advantage.

mistaowen":1hs4rowz said:

mrt144":1hs4rowz said:

Sgt. Largent":1hs4rowz said:

mrt144":1hs4rowz said:

You mean we can't just flip a switch and win using tactics we consistently avoid through most the game?

Sheesh!

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Crazy, I know.

"Why does Russell look so indecisive in the four and two minute offenses and the O-line all of a sudden can't pass protect in the 4th quarter when we're trying to come from behind!"

Maybe cause we had 10 pass plays the entire game up until that point and never once ran up tempo?

Click to expand...

I think this two post exchange sums up what I was overly verbose about in the other thread.

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This also puts a crazy amount of pressure on them to execute when every third down is an obvious passing play. Getting to third and manageable is a good goal but rarely straying from run-run-pass lets the defense get comfortable. One good play by the defense likely results in a punt. 2/9 on third down while rushing for 273? They have to stretch the field once in awhile other than on 3rd to keep them honest, second week in a row against a good team they adjusted to fully defending the run on first and second and weren't punished for it. I think I saw Russ was 8/8 on play action going into the final drives.... why wasn't this utilized more, especially on early downs? Easy completions makes running even easier when they get frozen on play action.

Running the ball this well is awesome but there has to be a little bit of variance in play calls or else they will be seeing 8 man boxes on first and second the rest of the season and then pass rushers on 3rd. I saw on twitter a stat saying if a pass is called on first (rare), they run the ball on 2nd something like 95% of the time. League is way too metric driven at this point to tip your hand and give the defense an advantage.

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mistaowen":go0f6a6a said:

This also puts a crazy amount of pressure on them to execute when every third down is an obvious passing play. Getting to third and manageable is a good goal but rarely straying from run-run-pass lets the defense get comfortable. One good play by the defense likely results in a punt. 2/9 on third down while rushing for 273? They have to stretch the field once in awhile other than on 3rd to keep them honest, second week in a row against a good team they adjusted to fully defending the run on first and second and weren't punished for it. I think I saw Russ was 8/8 on play action going into the final drives.... why wasn't this utilized more, especially on early downs? Easy completions makes running even easier when they get frozen on play action.

Running the ball this well is awesome but there has to be a little bit of variance in play calls or else they will be seeing 8 man boxes on first and second the rest of the season and then pass rushers on 3rd. I saw on twitter a stat saying if a pass is called on first (rare), they run the ball on 2nd something like 95% of the time. League is way too metric driven at this point to tip your hand and give the defense an advantage.

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These are good points.

I will definitely say that this year we are seeing far, far less 3 and outs and so in that respect I am grateful. I think most of the fans are actually happy with the number of runs and the success of the runs, and just a little little bit more unpredictability to leverage what should be a massive play action advantage would be smack in the goldilocks zone.

I mean if it's between this and 3 and out and defense back out there 30 seconds later, we'll take this all day. It's just we watch teams that run the ball effectively and see how it is such a force multiplier for the pass game, and wonder why it isn't a force multiplier for our pass game. It's not even yards to me. Russ will hit some deep shots. It's that outside of deep shots there is no slicing and dicing the area the LBs are vacating in play action for wide-open catches.

hawk45":trtaqcsb said:

mistaowen":trtaqcsb said:

This also puts a crazy amount of pressure on them to execute when every third down is an obvious passing play. Getting to third and manageable is a good goal but rarely straying from run-run-pass lets the defense get comfortable. One good play by the defense likely results in a punt. 2/9 on third down while rushing for 273? They have to stretch the field once in awhile other than on 3rd to keep them honest, second week in a row against a good team they adjusted to fully defending the run on first and second and weren't punished for it. I think I saw Russ was 8/8 on play action going into the final drives.... why wasn't this utilized more, especially on early downs? Easy completions makes running even easier when they get frozen on play action.

Running the ball this well is awesome but there has to be a little bit of variance in play calls or else they will be seeing 8 man boxes on first and second the rest of the season and then pass rushers on 3rd. I saw on twitter a stat saying if a pass is called on first (rare), they run the ball on 2nd something like 95% of the time. League is way too metric driven at this point to tip your hand and give the defense an advantage.

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These are good points.

I will definitely say that this year we are seeing far, far less 3 and outs and so in that respect I am grateful. I think most of the fans are actually happy with the number of runs and the success of the runs, and just a little little bit more unpredictability to leverage what should be a massive play action advantage would be smack in the goldilocks zone.

I mean if it's between this and 3 and out and defense back out there 30 seconds later, we'll take this all day. It's just we watch teams that run the ball effectively and see how it is such a force multiplier for the pass game, and wonder why it isn't a force multiplier for our pass game. It's not even yards to me. Russ will hit some deep shots. It's that outside of deep shots there is no slicing and dicing the area the LBs are vacating in play action for wide-open catches.

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This football is waaaaaaaaaaay more entertaining that last years so no complaints here. But I just get this nagging feeling that Cable was malignant and Solari's work is what is driving our run game turnaround - not really Schotty being super brill at what Pete has opined on wanting.

But just for the sake of argument - is our passing game up to snuff? Can it be improved in any capacity by coaching doing something different? Does it rest mostly on the players finding it within themselves to rise up and do the damn thing?

mistaowen":3r99794x said:

It’s great they run the ball well but that should open up easy passes as seen by the other good offenses. A solid running game lets the Rams, saints, chiefs, pats all make easy passes for 300 yards each week. Russell Wilson should not be relegated to a game manager with less than 100 yards going into the fourth. It is a genuine problem and Schotty’s history indicates nothing will change.

If you want to be a high school style offense with a QB making only a handful of passes per game, go get Sam Bradford.

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You can call it what you want but we have the most physical offense in the league. The running game is hiding our defense from being exposed more than it has been. Give them a year or two.

I thought this team had come of age when on 4th and 2yds Russ called that audible into a run and we got the first down. Chargers game? We can handle 8 in the box and still scratch out 2 or 3 yards.

I love the way Norton was running Buddy Ryans ol 4 6 defense just daring them to run the ball on us, NOW thats how to impose your will on anothers team. Loved it!!!!

Some people don't realize it, but we are living in a exciting times. :2thumbs:
Cheers