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Seahawks are a young team.... well, are they?

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  • I keep reading posts where people keep saying the Seahawks are a young team and that is why they struggle at times or are inconsistent. I will agree that the team's secondary is pretty young and inexperienced but I would say that the rest of the team's units are made up of mostly veterans or a mix of veterans and some younger players. So, who are the "young players" that keep being mentioned -- the only ones I see are the ones in the secondary.

    QB - RW is a vet now

    WR - Baldwin is an "old vet" by NFL terms these days. Lockett is probably in his prime now so hardly a "young" guy any more in terms of inexperience. Moore is pretty much a rookie has been inconsistent at times - but if he becomes a bonafide #3 receiver then does anybody really think that will change this team's chances of being a true contender?

    TE - Dickson is an "old vet" and Vannett is 3rd year pro and played his best season so probably not one of the "young guys" that most are referring to. Dissly is injured and was playing above expectations before his injury.

    Defensive Backs - McDougald is the only vet. Flowers has made some mistakes as a rookie but has hardly been singled out especially considering rookie defensive backs are frequently targeted even high picks. Griffin is in his 2nd year and Hill and Thompson are the obvious "young guys" that I can agree have been inconsistent but do you really think that they will be stars in this league or dominant at their positions with more time and experience?

    Defensive Line - Clark is his prime. Reed is having pro bowl season and best season of his career. Dion Jordan is a vet at this stage in his career and Stephens is the same. Green is a rookie but so far he has barely played so he has been a non-factor so far.

    Running Back - they are mostly young but playing well and I don't think their youth has affected their play or inconsistency at all. More likely, their youth has probably been a benefit since they run the ball so physically. Penny has obviously the greatest amount of potential unreached but his lack of consistent development has had little affect on the team's overall performance because of the play by Carson/Davis.

    Linebacker - With Wagner, Wright and Mingo -- this is probably the most experienced unit on the team. Griffin has been relegated to special teams. So outside of injuries (when youth was forced to play the first month of the season), it has been vets getting lion share of playing time.

    Offensive Line -- It is now two-thirds old veterans with Brown, Sweezy and Fluker. Britt is entering his prime and far from what you would consider a young guy making youthful inexpierenced mistakes. Ifedi probably is the one guy that meets the definition of "young guy" who needs time to grow although almost everybody on this board was ready to kick him to the curb about 2 months ago. Fant has a lot of potential still to reach but playing as the 6th OLine guy has probably met or exceeded expectations too.

    I don't see the "youth/inexperience" that people keep referring to as one of the reasons for the inconsistent play this season. In fact, I think after writing this that the "youth" on the team is probably performing better than expectations and that the real issue is that the roster is just NOT talented enough. I think RW has not made enough plays, the linebackers haven't dominated like they have in the past, the defensive line is not deep enough to consistently create pressure without blitzes, the offensive line doesn't pass block well enough and wide recievers don't have a guy that causes defensive coordinators to game plan for. The Secondary is probably the one "mostly youthful" unit on the team but I haven't seen flashes of brilliance from Thompson/Hill/Flowers/Griffin that make me think that they just need time to grow before they dominate. McDougald is having the best season by far but he is probably closer to the end of his career than the beginning.

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  • They are relying on a lot of youth on defense, particuarily in the secondary and defensive line.

    They typically publish the average ages of NFL teams, so we don’t have to guess how the Seahawks compare in age to the rest of the NFL.
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  • The 2018 Seahawks are an older team than when they won the SB.....so there is that.
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  • Young is a relative term. They are young in terms of continuity and trusting in each other. You have a new OC, DC and OL coach. You have young running backs who while they run well still are green at catching passes and pass blocking. An offensive line that’s just about to burst out as one of the best in the NFL and a secondary that is not only figuratively but literally young. This team is good! Really good! Everyone in the NFL knows that on a weekly basis you have to worry about not only losing but getting blown out by this team. The potential is there and each week the Seahawks are getting everyone’s best effort much like what happens to the Patriots, Steelers, Packers etc. Seattle is only sub .500 on paper. And yes the team is young and this especially is evident with missed tackling and blocking assignments which by my calculation has cost them 2-3 games thus far.
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  • The biggest problem I see is that the guys making the splash plays are rarely the young ones.

    We get contributions from guys like Mingo and Dion (Maybe Martin looks to occasionally be doing something). But for a team with all this vaunted youth in defense, we don't seem to have more than average athletes. I see a lot of guys that can hold their own decently immediately, but very little splash plays like Sherman, Kam and the rest used to show.

    Sure those are HOF type players but it still looks like our youth is a lot of high floor low ceiling guys. (The irony is that the inability to draft high floor low ceiling guys to fill holes led to our downfall in the first place...ugh).

    I don't know why everyone is so excited about the youth on this defense, very little of these guys look like they will be much more than average players. Maybe Flowers, maybe Griffin. I don't think they will be bad players but I don't see any big plays that great players make when they are finding their groove.

    Defense is going to get better. But it will take a lot of improvement to get anywhere near great. Not sure if the horses are even close to there though.
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:The biggest problem I see is that the guys making the splash plays are rarely the young ones.

    We get contributions from guys like Mingo and Dion (Maybe Martin looks to occasionally be doing something). But for a team with all this vaunted youth in defense, we don't seem to have more than average athletes. I see a lot of guys that can hold their own decently immediately, but very little splash plays like Sherman, Kam and the rest used to show.

    Sure those are HOF type players but it still looks like our youth is a lot of high floor low ceiling guys. (The irony is that the inability to draft high floor low ceiling guys to fill holes led to our downfall in the first place...ugh).

    I don't know why everyone is so excited about the youth on this defense, very little of these guys look like they will be much more than average players. Maybe Flowers, maybe Griffin. I don't think they will be bad players but I don't see any big plays that great players make when they are finding their groove.

    Defense is going to get better. But it will take a lot of improvement to get anywhere near great. Not sure if the horses are even close to there though.


    I agree with what you you said -- and you said it more eloquently than I did. Their problem is that they just don't have enough talent to be a top 5 team and no matter how much our "young guys" get --- it is doubtful that they have enough raw talent to make the team a top 5 one.

    The link that was provided above supports my original point. The Seawks are basically the same average age they have been since 2014. They are middle of the pack in terms of average age and the Rams are officially younger than us and they don't seem to have an issue with youthful inxpereince.

    I think this next draft is gonna be crucial -- they need an influx of talent and hitting a homerun on a 1st round pick is one way to do it which they haven't done since Earl Thomas and Russel Okung.

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  • Bandwagon76 wrote:Young is a relative term. They are young in terms of continuity and trusting in each other. You have a new OC, DC and OL coach. You have young running backs who while they run well still are green at catching passes and pass blocking. An offensive line that’s just about to burst out as one of the best in the NFL and a secondary that is not only figuratively but literally young. This team is good! Really good! Everyone in the NFL knows that on a weekly basis you have to worry about not only losing but getting blown out by this team. The potential is there and each week the Seahawks are getting everyone’s best effort much like what happens to the Patriots, Steelers, Packers etc. Seattle is only sub .500 on paper. And yes the team is young and this especially is evident with missed tackling and blocking assignments which by my calculation has cost them 2-3 games thus far.


    I think continuity is over rated except maybe with the OLine. In the NFL, the average career is between 4 and 5 years so how much continuity can you ever really have? You say "this team is good! Really good!" but the statistics and their record do not back that up. The Seahawks play hard, for the most part the play VERY hard and effort is rarely the issue with this team. That is great but it is not going to change this team into an elite team if the talent doesn't back them up. The stats show that they are not that young and are the same average age they have been since 2014. In my opinion, the missed tackling and blocking assignments are more likely a reflection of their talent level than their youthful inexperience and lack of continuity. On paper, it looked like the Seahawks "could" have won both the Chargers and Rams games but it never really felt that way to me -- again, that's just my opinion.

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  • New O line Coach and blocking scheme, New OC and offense adapted from our old one, Brown has to learn it and Britt, Fluker in new position, Sweezy in new position, Ifedi learning new system, Wilson learning new system, RB's young and learning new system, Baldwin learning new route trees and system, Moore getting his first starting experience, Lockett learning starting for first time, Dissley Rookie, Dickson learning new system, Fant playing TE, Vannett now p[laying as a starter.


    Yeah there isn't a lot going on there, and thats just offense.


    We are young as far as experience on a lot of fronts and to our implemented system changes, they will get better and better as things og forward, receivers reads and line calls will be more right then wrong, Wilson will react quicker to reads and his progressions and hot read and ball will come out faster.


    There is a lot of the same happening on the defensive side with players in roles they have to learn and get comfortable and confident with, new DC using Carrolls system but making the calls, new D line Coach, new secondary coach. it goes on, a;; have to adapt to each other and learn each others tendencies.


    It is not Madden where you plug in Rodgers for Wilson one play and Singletary for Wagner on oanther based on stats.
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  • Whats do these players have in common?
    -Chris Carson
    -Rashaad Penny
    -David Moore
    -Germsin Ofedi
    -Nick Vannett

    -Frank Clark
    -Jarred Reed
    -Quinton Jefferson
    -Poona Ford
    -Rasheem Green
    -Jacob Martin
    -Justin Coleman
    -Tre Flowers
    -Shaquill Griffin
    -Tedric Thompson

    They are starters, major contributors or significant role players who are either under 26 yrs old, have less then 3 years experience or both.

    Nice try, but you forgot to mention a lot of players to fit your narrative.

    This team has a lot of young players who are in their prime or those who are playing significant roles for the first time...in a lot of cases replacing legends. This is a .500 team, but I expect a break out year for most in 2019.
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  • truehawksfan wrote:Whats do these players have in common?
    -Chris Carson
    -Rashaad Penny
    -David Moore
    -Germsin Ofedi
    -Nick Vannett

    -Frank Clark
    -Jarred Reed
    -Quinton Jefferson
    -Poona Ford
    -Rasheem Green
    -Jacob Martin
    -Justin Coleman
    -Tre Flowers
    -Shaquill Griffin
    -Tedric Thompson

    They are starters, major contributors or significant role players who are either under 26 yrs old, have less then 3 years experience or both.

    Nice try, but you forgot to mention a lot of players to fit your narrative.

    This team has a lot of young players who are in their prime or those who are playing significant roles for the first time...in a lot of cases replacing legends. This is a .500 team, but I expect a break out year for most in 2019.


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  • Sox-n-Hawks wrote:
    truehawksfan wrote:Whats do these players have in common?
    -Chris Carson
    -Rashaad Penny
    -David Moore
    -Germsin Ofedi
    -Nick Vannett

    -Frank Clark
    -Jarred Reed
    -Quinton Jefferson
    -Poona Ford
    -Rasheem Green
    -Jacob Martin
    -Justin Coleman
    -Tre Flowers
    -Shaquill Griffin
    -Tedric Thompson

    They are starters, major contributors or significant role players who are either under 26 yrs old, have less then 3 years experience or both.

    Nice try, but you forgot to mention a lot of players to fit your narrative.

    This team has a lot of young players who are in their prime or those who are playing significant roles for the first time...in a lot of cases replacing legends. This is a .500 team, but I expect a break out year for most in 2019.


    Sea-bass brings the average way up.


    You talking age, beer consumption or weight? :)
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    Sox-n-Hawks wrote:
    truehawksfan wrote:Whats do these players have in common?
    -Chris Carson
    -Rashaad Penny
    -David Moore
    -Germsin Ofedi
    -Nick Vannett

    -Frank Clark
    -Jarred Reed
    -Quinton Jefferson
    -Poona Ford
    -Rasheem Green
    -Jacob Martin
    -Justin Coleman
    -Tre Flowers
    -Shaquill Griffin
    -Tedric Thompson

    They are starters, major contributors or significant role players who are either under 26 yrs old, have less then 3 years experience or both.

    Nice try, but you forgot to mention a lot of players to fit your narrative.

    This team has a lot of young players who are in their prime or those who are playing significant roles for the first time...in a lot of cases replacing legends. This is a .500 team, but I expect a break out year for most in 2019.


    Sea-bass brings the average way up.


    You talking age, beer consumption or weight? :)


    Probably all three! At least age though.


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  • When talking about youth, are we specifically talking age, or games played? Huge difference imo.

    For instance Dion Jordan is nearly a year and a half older than Aaron Donald, but has played in 38 less games. I'd be interested to see the team numbers based on games played, and compare the two.
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  • JGreen79 wrote:When talking about youth, are we specifically talking age, or games played? Huge difference imo.

    For instance Dion Jordan is nearly a year and a half older than Aaron Donald, but has played in 38 less games. I'd be interested to see the team numbers based on games played, and compare the two.


    Also need to take in consideration position played and experience there. Pete and the staff have mobed players all around, Mingo is another example as well as Flowers and Shaq 2.0.
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  • zetes wrote:
    Bandwagon76 wrote:Young is a relative term. They are young in terms of continuity and trusting in each other. You have a new OC, DC and OL coach. You have young running backs who while they run well still are green at catching passes and pass blocking. An offensive line that’s just about to burst out as one of the best in the NFL and a secondary that is not only figuratively but literally young. This team is good! Really good! Everyone in the NFL knows that on a weekly basis you have to worry about not only losing but getting blown out by this team. The potential is there and each week the Seahawks are getting everyone’s best effort much like what happens to the Patriots, Steelers, Packers etc. Seattle is only sub .500 on paper. And yes the team is young and this especially is evident with missed tackling and blocking assignments which by my calculation has cost them 2-3 games thus far.


    I think continuity is over rated except maybe with the OLine. In the NFL, the average career is between 4 and 5 years so how much continuity can you ever really have? You say "this team is good! Really good!" but the statistics and their record do not back that up. The Seahawks play hard, for the most part the play VERY hard and effort is rarely the issue with this team. That is great but it is not going to change this team into an elite team if the talent doesn't back them up. The stats show that they are not that young and are the same average age they have been since 2014. In my opinion, the missed tackling and blocking assignments are more likely a reflection of their talent level than their youthful inexperience and lack of continuity. On paper, it looked like the Seahawks "could" have won both the Chargers and Rams games but it never really felt that way to me -- again, that's just my opinion.

    Z.


    Good read and I respect your opinion.
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  • truehawksfan wrote:Whats do these players have in common?
    -Chris Carson
    -Rashaad Penny
    -David Moore
    -Germsin Ofedi
    -Nick Vannett


    I think the fans grant that the defense is young, at least I do, so I'll leave that out. Makes sense they would struggle.

    But the above-listed offensive players do not support a narrative as to why the offense might struggle.

    You have your prime, franchise QB, and an OL that is playing well this year, so take Ifedi off the list because the OL unit is great.

    Carson plays great, so his youth isn't an impediment either.

    Penny is a 2nd-3rd stringer at a position where youth is generally not as big an issue.

    Moore is on a unit where the other 2 players (Baldwin and Lockett) are prime vets, and Moore himself has played well outside of one game.

    Vannett is playing well this year and there are other vets at that position.

    If the players you listed were struggling I'd say okay, yeah, youth may be affecting them. But if none of them are really struggling?

    I buy the new OC excuse far more than I buy any excuse about youth with the offensive players. You can't have every single player on offense be 30. Our young players are spread around just fine on that side of the ball.

    That said, the offense is lights-out running the ball. It's really only passing that's head-scratching sometimes. Could very well be a new OC. I mean Wilson had one poopie game and one amazing game and outside of that we're just not quite there in terms of figuring out how to use play action to greatest effect.
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  • zetes wrote:The Secondary is probably the one "mostly youthful" unit on the team


    That right there is pretty much enough to explain our struggles. Pete Carroll's defenses are built around the secondary and ours is giving up massive chunks of yardage to good quarterbacks.
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  • zetes wrote:the Rams are officially younger than us and they don't seem to have an issue with youthful inxpereince.


    Their defense is struggling considerably, pass rush notwithstanding. Their QB is peaking in his third year and that's pretty much all that matters.
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  • Bandwagon76 wrote:
    Good read and I respect your opinion.


    Thanks. That's all I anted to hear really.... LOL!

    Seriously, we are all just throwing around our opinion or our "opinions of other people's opinions" and none of us have a chance of changing the outcomes anyway (unless Pete is secretly looking for our advice). So, a few "I respect your opinion" or "I read your post and don't agree but see where you are coming from" can go a long way to keeping every civil here.

    Cheers

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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    zetes wrote:The Secondary is probably the one "mostly youthful" unit on the team


    That right there is pretty much enough to explain our struggles. Pete Carroll's defenses are built around the secondary and ours is giving up massive chunks of yardage to good quarterbacks.


    Well, if the argument is that "the secondary is young and inexperienced" and we are not grouping the rest of the team in with that "youthful inexperience" explanation of the team's inconsistent play then I totally can understand that opinion. My issue is that I don't see any of these 4 being as good as any of Thomas/Sherman/Chancellor. I have high hopes for Flowers but they are really just "hopes" right now. I think McDougald is playing lights-out football right now but I don't think his body will last many more seasons with the type of physical football we need from him -- I mean look what happened to Chancellor and he was physically a menace just to look at. That's just my opinion and many of you might very well believe that they all just need time and coaching to make them into a top 5 secondary -- I'm just not seeing it. I do remember watching Sherman in his second year exhibition games and i remember seeing the best cornerback play by a Seahawk I'd ever seen -- so, maybe that is biasing my own expectations.

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  • zetes wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    zetes wrote:The Secondary is probably the one "mostly youthful" unit on the team


    That right there is pretty much enough to explain our struggles. Pete Carroll's defenses are built around the secondary and ours is giving up massive chunks of yardage to good quarterbacks.


    Well, if the argument is that "the secondary is young and inexperienced" and we are not grouping the rest of the team in with that "youthful inexperience" explanation of the team's inconsistent play then I totally can understand that opinion. My issue is that I don't see any of these 4 being as good as any of Thomas/Sherman/Chancellor. I have high hopes for Flowers but they are really just "hopes" right now. I think McDougald is playing lights-out football right now but I don't think his body will last many more seasons with the type of physical football we need from him -- I mean look what happened to Chancellor and he was physically a menace just to look at. That's just my opinion and many of you might very well believe that they all just need time and coaching to make them into a top 5 secondary -- I'm just not seeing it. I do remember watching Sherman in his second year exhibition games and i remember seeing the best cornerback play by a Seahawk I'd ever seen -- so, maybe that is biasing my own expectations.

    Z.


    If you're expecting the next LOB, then of course you're going to be disappointed what this new group of DB's is doing. The LOB in their prime was arguably the greatest defensive backfield in the history of the league...............expecting that to be duplicated is naive.

    But what Pete is building is a good young defensive backfield that's probably still missing a great FS or corner. But IMO at least half the group is there with Griffin and McDougald............jury's still out on Flowers and the FS position.
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