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  • Hey Sherm, do you see what he's "capable of" yet???
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  • Wilson torched them, and didn’t even have to throw enough to have a sore arm the next day.
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  • After review 2017 performance, bunch of guys didn't know what they are doing put a short game manager in the top cluster 1 with elite Tom Brady.

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  • toffee wrote:After review 2017 performance, bunch of guys didn't know what they are doing put a short game manager in the top cluster 1 with elite Tom Brady.



    But but but... The I TEST... I mean The Eye TEST! :shock:
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Hey Sherm, do you see what he's "capable of" yet???


    Yep!! 5 Picks!!

    Forget the fact 3 of those bounced off of Kearse's hands and he was later shipped off. Also please forget the fact he has 5 ALL YEAR along with 29 TD's. :snack:
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  • And forget the fact that they WON that game in large part because of that QB refused to give up, down 16 w/5 minutes to go. You don't even play in your 2nd SuperbOwl w/out Russ...........
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  • toffee wrote:After review 2017 performance, bunch of guys didn't know what they are doing put a short game manager in the top cluster 1 with elite Tom Brady.


    Great vid. That's a body.
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  • The following is from the thread “elite” that I posted a few months ago. No matter how you slice it, Russell Wilson is elite. There can’t be many more nails left to end this debate.


    The choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.”


    The above is a definition of the word elite in dictionary.com. I have seen lots of debate and opinions on this board regarding the status of Russell Wilson and even Pete Carroll as to whether or not either one is elite. I’m not sure we can even debate the merits of the elitness of a player or coach without first understanding what the term elite means.

    In the definition provided, elite is the best of anything considered collectively. Using that definition, one has to take into consideration the pool from which the person is a participant in order to clearly define whether they are elite or not. What is not stated in the definition but plays a huge part in this discussion is what percentage of the pool is to be considered for elitness.

    Russell Wilson consistently comes out in the top 5-8 of all QBs. Being a top 5 QB puts him in the top 15%. I have seen him rated as high as #3 in some lists. A #3 position puts him in the top 10%. In terms of production and importance to his team, he is a top QB. That in and of itself makes him elite within the pool of players that he is part of. The fact that a player is elite or not can only be based on the competition at their same position across the league. A player cannot be compared to players no longer playing or to an arbitrary preconceived notion of what a player should play like or how their physical measurable stack up.

    What I think many fans determine elite to be is based less on a players rank within his own pool of players and more of a subjective analysis based on how they think a player should be. For example, most draft lists would put a player at 6’3” and a “prototypical “dropback passer as a more desirable draft pick than a 5’11” scrambling QB regardless of their on field productivity. This player bias plays into the psyche of coaches and fans alike and predetermines to an extent a players potential to be considered elite.

    There is no formula to determine whether a player is elite other than how they stack up against their peers. Is Russell Wilson considered one of the best QBs in the NFL? Yes he is. Is he the best QB in the NFL. Probably not. That honor has to fall on Aaron Rogers and/or Tom Brady which makes them the elite of the elite. Maybe Russ isn’t elite, but he’s at the doorstep.
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  • Right now Wilson is more Elite then Brady and Erin this season. Still doesn't matter, only way to be elite is through east coast bias media or nfl darlings. no one will ever talk about south Alaska players. look at bobby wagner.

    last time I checked Wilson is not even top 15 in the mvp conversation, which is crazy.
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  • rcaido wrote:Right now Wilson is more Elite then Brady and Erin this season. Still doesn't matter, only way to be elite is through east coast bias media or nfl darlings. no one will ever talk about south Alaska players. look at bobby wagner.

    last time I checked Wilson is not even top 15 in the mvp conversation, which is crazy.




    You are so "right on"!!! The East Coast media bias applies not only to Professional football teams.....
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  • oldhawkfan wrote:The following is from the thread “elite” that I posted a few months ago. No matter how you slice it, Russell Wilson is elite. There can’t be many more nails left to end this debate.


    The choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.”


    The above is a definition of the word elite in dictionary.com. I have seen lots of debate and opinions on this board regarding the status of Russell Wilson and even Pete Carroll as to whether or not either one is elite. I’m not sure we can even debate the merits of the elitness of a player or coach without first understanding what the term elite means.

    In the definition provided, elite is the best of anything considered collectively. Using that definition, one has to take into consideration the pool from which the person is a participant in order to clearly define whether they are elite or not. What is not stated in the definition but plays a huge part in this discussion is what percentage of the pool is to be considered for elitness.

    Russell Wilson consistently comes out in the top 5-8 of all QBs. Being a top 5 QB puts him in the top 15%. I have seen him rated as high as #3 in some lists. A #3 position puts him in the top 10%. In terms of production and importance to his team, he is a top QB. That in and of itself makes him elite within the pool of players that he is part of. The fact that a player is elite or not can only be based on the competition at their same position across the league. A player cannot be compared to players no longer playing or to an arbitrary preconceived notion of what a player should play like or how their physical measurable stack up.

    What I think many fans determine elite to be is based less on a players rank within his own pool of players and more of a subjective analysis based on how they think a player should be. For example, most draft lists would put a player at 6’3” and a “prototypical “dropback passer as a more desirable draft pick than a 5’11” scrambling QB regardless of their on field productivity. This player bias plays into the psyche of coaches and fans alike and predetermines to an extent a players potential to be considered elite.

    There is no formula to determine whether a player is elite other than how they stack up against their peers. Is Russell Wilson considered one of the best QBs in the NFL? Yes he is. Is he the best QB in the NFL. Probably not. That honor has to fall on Aaron Rogers and/or Tom Brady which makes them the elite of the elite. Maybe Russ isn’t elite, but he’s at the doorstep.


    He's outperforming both of them this season. He's certainly outperforming their first 6 years of play. Heck, did I just see that Tom Brady JUST hit 1,000yd career rushing? You'd think an ELITE QB could make something happen with his legs when coverage was too good or protection breaks down. That guy must really suck.
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  • He just "manages" to keep winning.
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  • oldhawkfan wrote:The following is from the thread “elite” that I posted a few months ago. No matter how you slice it, Russell Wilson is elite. There can’t be many more nails left to end this debate.


    The choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.”


    The above is a definition of the word elite in dictionary.com. I have seen lots of debate and opinions on this board regarding the status of Russell Wilson and even Pete Carroll as to whether or not either one is elite. I’m not sure we can even debate the merits of the elitness of a player or coach without first understanding what the term elite means.

    In the definition provided, elite is the best of anything considered collectively. Using that definition, one has to take into consideration the pool from which the person is a participant in order to clearly define whether they are elite or not. What is not stated in the definition but plays a huge part in this discussion is what percentage of the pool is to be considered for elitness.

    Russell Wilson consistently comes out in the top 5-8 of all QBs. Being a top 5 QB puts him in the top 15%. I have seen him rated as high as #3 in some lists. A #3 position puts him in the top 10%. In terms of production and importance to his team, he is a top QB. That in and of itself makes him elite within the pool of players that he is part of. The fact that a player is elite or not can only be based on the competition at their same position across the league. A player cannot be compared to players no longer playing or to an arbitrary preconceived notion of what a player should play like or how their physical measurable stack up.

    What I think many fans determine elite to be is based less on a players rank within his own pool of players and more of a subjective analysis based on how they think a player should be. For example, most draft lists would put a player at 6’3” and a “prototypical “dropback passer as a more desirable draft pick than a 5’11” scrambling QB regardless of their on field productivity. This player bias plays into the psyche of coaches and fans alike and predetermines to an extent a players potential to be considered elite.

    There is no formula to determine whether a player is elite other than how they stack up against their peers. Is Russell Wilson considered one of the best QBs in the NFL? Yes he is. Is he the best QB in the NFL. Probably not. That honor has to fall on Aaron Rogers and/or Tom Brady which makes them the elite of the elite. Maybe Russ isn’t elite, but he’s at the doorstep.


    I think you’ve got the denominator wrong. Every year thousands upon thousands of kids start at QB for their high schools dreaming of playing in the NFL. Only a select number are chosen to get scholarships to colleges. There are hundreds of college QB’s hoping to get drafted and play in the NFL, but only a select few get drafted. Of those drafted QB;s only a few become franchise QB’s. And of those franchise QB’s, only a few are top 5 in the league.

    You could argue that getting into the NFL makes you elite amongst the QB fraternity. But producing, winning and leading a successful team makes you Uber elite. The top 0.1%.

    This is where all the haters get things wrong. They put out comparisons to Brees and Rodgers and Brady. But elite doesn’t mean you are better than those guys. Elite means you are better than the thousands of QB’s that are your total peer group in the nation.
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  • And to think, this thread almost died in glory on it's first day, with 45 posts or whatever. Some of my greatest work, if I do say so myself. :stirthepot:
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  • Tical21 wrote:And to think, this thread almost died in glory on it's first day, with 45 posts or whatever. Some of my greatest work, if I do say so myself. :stirthepot:



    Nothing like throwing the term “hogwash” into the mix. Got everyone’s dander up.
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  • Mad Dog wrote:
    Tical21 wrote:And to think, this thread almost died in glory on it's first day, with 45 posts or whatever. Some of my greatest work, if I do say so myself. :stirthepot:



    Nothing like throwing the term “hogwash” into the mix. Got everyone’s dander up.


    It's my (correct) opinion that doing that for the express purpose of roiling shit up (i.e., trolling the main forum) should be followed up by an indefinite ban for the perp.
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  • Tical21 wrote:And to think, this thread almost died in glory on it's first day, with 45 posts or whatever. Some of my greatest work, if I do say so myself. :stirthepot:


    Yes brilliant work alright! If your goal was to spout garbage out of your mouth while pissing off any reasonable Seahawks fan...then mission accomplished. :pukeface:

    Your comment is full of crap, you need another longer vacation I think.

    Tical21 wrote:Oh, hogwash. Huge difference between Russ and just about all the other guys on that list...they push the ball into the zone..... That pick-6 from three weeks ago...there isn't another QB on your list that makes that throw. That was QB-101 stuff. ....


    Here is proof how out of touch you are with reality, and how butt hurt you are about a too short QB.

    Your "Mighty Dan Marino" threw 28 career pick 6's!! Brees 27, Rivers 23.... to Russells 3. THREE!!! :177692:

    This is "fan 101 stuff"....and you failed.

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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:And forget the fact that they WON that game in large part because of that QB refused to give up, down 16 w/5 minutes to go. You don't even play in your 2nd SuperbOwl w/out Russ...........

    Actually the 5-INT game was in November and the Packers won 38-10. In the NFC Championship game, Wilson was "credited" with 4 picks, only one of which was legitimately a bad throw.

    But otherwise yes, the NFCCG was entirely about a QB who refused to accept defeat in the face of overwhelming odds.
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  • Seymour wrote:Top 5 at #4 for 2017 right now. Elite.

    2018, too.
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  • Tical21 wrote:And to think, this thread almost died in glory on it's first day, with 45 posts or whatever. Some of my greatest work, if I do say so myself. :stirthepot:


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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:He just "manages" to keep winning.

    Sadly, what is NOT being discussed, is how rigorous the Patsies schedule is (or isn't)….Example; Russell Wilson has had to face off against the RAMS, 49rs, & the CARDINALS 6 times a season, and in conference battles, have had to play the 49res an extra game for all the marbles for the Conference Title.
    Point is, for several seasons, the NFC WEST was without a doubt, the toughest in the whole NFC conference, so to me, Wilson has shown a lot more grit than Brady ever has, AND, he didn't have to deflate any balls like the Brady & the Cheatriots have.
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  • Tical21 wrote:And to think, this thread almost died in glory on it's first day, with 45 posts or whatever. Some of my greatest work, if I do say so myself. :stirthepot:

    As usual :dummy: ....Sometimes 'FUNNY' is just not .................Funny :177692:
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  • scutterhawk wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:He just "manages" to keep winning.

    Sadly, what is NOT being discussed, is how rigorous the Patsies schedule is (or isn't)….Example; Russell Wilson has had to face off against the RAMS, 49rs, & the CARDINALS 6 times a season, and in conference battles, have had to play the 49res an extra game for all the marbles for the Conference Title.
    Point is, for several seasons, the NFC WEST was without a doubt, the toughest in the whole NFC conference, so to me, Wilson has shown a lot more grit than Brady ever has, AND, he didn't have to deflate any balls like the Brady & the Cheatriots have.

    Certainly in our Super Bowl years our division was clearly the best in the NFL. Since then the South has been very good and the East has even made a decent show of it.

    However, I do agree that AFC East in the past several yeas has not been very thrilling. Even the teams that won a few were deeply flawed.

    Edit: Crap, I forgot to qualify this, so before the monkeys start flinging poo, let me say this in no way cheapens or is meant to be a diss against the Seahawks, Russell Wilson, the NFC West, the NFL, or the city of Seattle and general area.
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  • I think I will add that if Russ keeps playing like this, I'll have no qualms at all with including him with the others at the pinnacle of the position. He's making actual reads/progressions, maneuvering within the pocket, often delivering the ball on time. He's beating some coverages that he has always struggled with.

    He usually plays well against Minnesota, but they seem to me to be the type of coverage he should have trouble with. They disguise their zone as man better than any team in the business, or, at least they used to. He's getting better. I'm optimistic, and not long ago, I kind of doubted that I ever would be again.
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  • Mad Dog wrote:
    Tical21 wrote:And to think, this thread almost died in glory on it's first day, with 45 posts or whatever. Some of my greatest work, if I do say so myself. :stirthepot:



    Nothing like throwing the term “hogwash” into the mix. Got everyone’s dander up.

    Works every time.
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  • Tical21 wrote:I think I will add that if Russ keeps playing like this, I'll have no qualms at all with including him with the others at the pinnacle of the position. He's making actual reads/progressions, maneuvering within the pocket, often delivering the ball on time. He's beating some coverages that he has always struggled with.

    He usually plays well against Minnesota, but they seem to me to be the type of coverage he should have trouble with. They disguise their zone as man better than any team in the business, or, at least they used to. He's getting better. I'm optimistic, and not long ago, I kind of doubted that I ever would be again.


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  • Tical21 wrote:I think I will add that if Russ keeps playing like this, I'll have no qualms at all with including him with the others at the pinnacle of the position. He's making actual reads/progressions, maneuvering within the pocket, often delivering the ball on time. He's beating some coverages that he has always struggled with.

    He usually plays well against Minnesota, but they seem to me to be the type of coverage he should have trouble with. They disguise their zone as man better than any team in the business, or, at least they used to. He's getting better. I'm optimistic, and not long ago, I kind of doubted that I ever would be again.


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  • Tical21 wrote:I think I will add that if Russ keeps playing like this, I'll have no qualms at all with including him with the others at the pinnacle of the position. He's making actual reads/progressions, maneuvering within the pocket, often delivering the ball on time. He's beating some coverages that he has always struggled with.

    He usually plays well against Minnesota, but they seem to me to be the type of coverage he should have trouble with. They disguise their zone as man better than any team in the business, or, at least they used to. He's getting better. I'm optimistic, and not long ago, I kind of doubted that I ever would be again.


    I always like when you post Tical.

    Like I told you before though, you know well oiled machine offenses when you see them. You have been blaming Wilson these past years, instead of the previous coaches that were setting Wilson up to fail. But he is a beast so he still found a way to perform in spite of them.

    Wilson never had a consistent pocket to do what he is doing now. It was a train wreck and a clown car show rolled into one.

    He has definitely improved his footwork while moving, sliding, and stepping up into the pocket. But here is the most important part of the equation. He finally has a consistent pocket he can now trust so he can do these things.

    I am really curious to see how Wilson plays in this game as well. Minnesota has the No. 8 DVOA defense. Far better than what he has seen these last 3 games.
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  • The best part of this thread is the haters saying "if he plays like this against Minnesota or the rest of the year" then they will allow him to be called elite.....This is the most bizarre thread on this forum in a long, long time. Well done.
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  • Tical21 wrote:I think I will add that if Russ keeps playing like this, I'll have no qualms at all with including him with the others at the pinnacle of the position........blah blah blah


    Wow...way to take a stand and stick to what you believe. :roll:

    What happened to.... "Oh, hogwash. Huge difference between Russ and just about all the other guys on that list"??

    This is Wilsons 7th year in the league. He didn't suddenly get better this year, he just has better than a league worst oline.

    Nobody here needs your Wilson fandom, in fact I'd guess most would prefer you stick with "the other team", which ever that is. One loss and an interception or 2 and you'll be barking once again. :pukeface:
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  • Elite

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    http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000996771

    Russell Wilson going deep

    While Seattle found early success this season by negating opposing pass rushes with quick throws, Russell Wilson has since landed among the league's best in airing it out. Wilson has thrown deep (20-plus air yards) on 14.4 percent of his attempts, the fourth-highest rate in the NFL among 34 qualifying quarterbacks. He's thrown a touchdown on 25.5 percent of such attempts, with 27.7 percent of them directed toward end zone targets. As a result, he's posted a 127.4 passer rating on deep passes, the second-highest in the NFL. His completion percentage proves his true excellence, with his 51.1 percent mark landing 16.1 percent above his expected completion percentage of 35. For reference, the NFL average is 0.2 percent below expectation, proving Wilson truly is elite in such situations.
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  • Seymour wrote:Elite

    Image

    http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000996771

    Russell Wilson going deep

    While Seattle found early success this season by negating opposing pass rushes with quick throws, Russell Wilson has since landed among the league's best in airing it out. Wilson has thrown deep (20-plus air yards) on 14.4 percent of his attempts, the fourth-highest rate in the NFL among 34 qualifying quarterbacks. He's thrown a touchdown on 25.5 percent of such attempts, with 27.7 percent of them directed toward end zone targets. As a result, he's posted a 127.4 passer rating on deep passes, the second-highest in the NFL. His completion percentage proves his true excellence, with his 51.1 percent mark landing 16.1 percent above his expected completion percentage of 35. For reference, the NFL average is 0.2 percent below expectation, proving Wilson truly is elite in such situations.
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  • We must remember that all QBs made mistakes, elite or not. To me:

    Elite = consistent excellency + extra gear when the spot lights are at their brightest.

    Russell Wilson is elite in my book, regardless of too short, too white, etc


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  • Seymour wrote:
    Tical21 wrote:I think I will add that if Russ keeps playing like this, I'll have no qualms at all with including him with the others at the pinnacle of the position........blah blah blah


    Wow...way to take a stand and stick to what you believe. :roll:

    What happened to.... "Oh, hogwash. Huge difference between Russ and just about all the other guys on that list"??

    This is Wilsons 7th year in the league. He didn't suddenly get better this year, he just has better than a league worst oline.

    Nobody here needs your Wilson fandom, in fact I'd guess most would prefer you stick with "the other team", which ever that is. One loss and an interception or 2 and you'll be barking once again. :pukeface:

    The hogwash comment wasn't about whether or not he is elite, it is about the topic not being open up for debate.

    No, he didn't suddenly get better. It's been a gradual improvement. We actually hit hitch routes against boxcars two weeks ago. Three times. For maybe his first times ever. I'd be happy to watch some football with you. Or you can stay in the peanut gallery and keep taking your little shots. I've been thinking you arent worth my time...but I've had about enough.
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  • Tical21 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Tical21 wrote:I think I will add that if Russ keeps playing like this, I'll have no qualms at all with including him with the others at the pinnacle of the position........blah blah blah


    Wow...way to take a stand and stick to what you believe. :roll:

    What happened to.... "Oh, hogwash. Huge difference between Russ and just about all the other guys on that list"??

    This is Wilsons 7th year in the league. He didn't suddenly get better this year, he just has better than a league worst oline.

    Nobody here needs your Wilson fandom, in fact I'd guess most would prefer you stick with "the other team", which ever that is. One loss and an interception or 2 and you'll be barking once again. :pukeface:

    The hogwash comment wasn't about whether or not he is elite, it is about the topic not being open up for debate.

    No, he didn't suddenly get better. It's been a gradual improvement. We actually hit hitch routes against boxcars two weeks ago. Three times. For maybe his first times ever. I'd be happy to watch some football with you. Or you can stay in the peanut gallery and keep taking your little shots. I've been thinking you arent worth my time...but I've had about enough.


    I agree there's a huge difference. So do the opponents he plays. Watch ANY interview. EVERY player on the field respects RWs game and ability. Go Hawks. He's a Championship winning ELITE QB. I wouldn't want to be on a team facing him in any situation. Period.
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  • IMO, We can argue statistics but another way to know a qb has arrived at truly elite status is when they win league MVP or are voted as All-Pro. Wilson could never win those accolades being viewed as a caboose on the LOB/beastmode train.
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  • Has Brees ever won League MVP?
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  • Seymour wrote:
    Seymour wrote:Elite

    Image

    http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000996771

    Russell Wilson going deep

    While Seattle found early success this season by negating opposing pass rushes with quick throws, Russell Wilson has since landed among the league's best in airing it out. Wilson has thrown deep (20-plus air yards) on 14.4 percent of his attempts, the fourth-highest rate in the NFL among 34 qualifying quarterbacks. He's thrown a touchdown on 25.5 percent of such attempts, with 27.7 percent of them directed toward end zone targets. As a result, he's posted a 127.4 passer rating on deep passes, the second-highest in the NFL. His completion percentage proves his true excellence, with his 51.1 percent mark landing 16.1 percent above his expected completion percentage of 35. For reference, the NFL average is 0.2 percent below expectation, proving Wilson truly is elite in such situations.


    This can't be true, Wilson isn't accurate enough on his deep balls, or so I have been told.
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  • Fade wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Seymour wrote:Elite

    Image

    http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000996771

    Russell Wilson going deep

    While Seattle found early success this season by negating opposing pass rushes with quick throws, Russell Wilson has since landed among the league's best in airing it out. Wilson has thrown deep (20-plus air yards) on 14.4 percent of his attempts, the fourth-highest rate in the NFL among 34 qualifying quarterbacks. He's thrown a touchdown on 25.5 percent of such attempts, with 27.7 percent of them directed toward end zone targets. As a result, he's posted a 127.4 passer rating on deep passes, the second-highest in the NFL. His completion percentage proves his true excellence, with his 51.1 percent mark landing 16.1 percent above his expected completion percentage of 35. For reference, the NFL average is 0.2 percent below expectation, proving Wilson truly is elite in such situations.


    This can't be true, Wilson isn't accurate enough on his deep balls, or so I have been told.

    Of course not. It’s obviously his receivers.
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  • Sox-n-Hawks wrote:
    Fade wrote:
    Seymour wrote:


    This can't be true, Wilson isn't accurate enough on his deep balls, or so I have been told.

    Of course not. It’s obviously his receivers.



    You so don't get it ... Its his therapist... Geeze!! :141847_bnono: :lol:
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  • Russ Willstrong wrote:IMO, We can argue statistics but another way to know a qb has arrived at truly elite status is when they win league MVP or are voted as All-Pro. Wilson could never win those accolades being viewed as a caboose on the LOB/beastmode train.


    Okay. Here's a list* of some QBs who are "truly elite" due to being an All-Pro:

    Carson Wentz
    Cam Newton
    Carson Palmer
    Tony Romo
    Rapistburger
    Matt Hasselbeck
    Daunte Culpepper
    Steve McNair
    Rich Gannon

    Pretty amazing list of truly elite QBs right there. By your self-stated criteria. :2thumbs: :roll: :roll: :roll: GTFO :34853_doh:


    *source: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/awards/
    Last edited by GeekHawk on Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Sox-n-Hawks wrote:Has Brees ever won League MVP?


    Nope.

    Guess he’s not elite. And Cam Newton is.
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  • Truth! Apparently.
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  • It's pretty crazy that since Wilson has been the starter, the Seahawks have only lost 5 games by more than 8 points. So only five losses including playoffs haven't been a one possession game.
    Last edited by massari on Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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  • Mediots do not know how to vote for awards.

    They vote for both the MVP & 1st Team All-Pro. That is a horrible metric to use.



    How about that Goff tonight? System QB if I ever saw one. Scratch him off the list.
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  • I'm sure they will make excuses for Goff. He's a good QB, but not close to being great. Put pressure on him and he folds, big time. So, I get the feeling that Russ STILL isn't a top notch QB in some people's eyes. Even if he wins tonight, it will somehow be because the Vikes played bad. :roll:
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