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This team loses way too often due to coaching mistakes

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  • Look I love that Pete is the coach and has done a wonderful job since he's been here bringing us a bowl. With this said I've never seen a team lose so many games due to bad coaching decision or gameplans. Last night was the latest debacle. From the XLIX nightmare to Cabevell to the beginning and ends of the 2018 season, it's perplexing. Not only do fans notice it but when announcers are saying it consistently year after year during the games, it shows there is a serious flaw. I actually feel bad for the players because they are playing hard and doing what they are told to do.

    Again all in all I wouldn't want another coach but I hope he finally learns from his mistakes.
    seabowl
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  • seabowl wrote:Look I love that Pete is the coach and has done a wonderful job since he's been here bringing us a bowl. With this said I've never seen a team lose so many games due to bad coaching decision or gameplans. Last night was the latest debacle. From the XLIX nightmare to Cabevell to the beginning and ends of the 2018 season, it's perplexing. Not only do fans notice it but when announcers are saying it consistently year after year during the games, it shows there is a serious flaw. I actually feel bad for the players because they are playing hard and doing what they are told to do.

    Again all in all I wouldn't want another coach but I hope he finally learns from his mistakes.



    Pete Carroll is a good football coach, and I am in lock step with a lot of his philosophy. But his rigid straight forward offense is not good enough to win a championship. Unless he can build a legendary defense to make up for it.
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  • The team only lost by 2 points and it was the D that failed to stop Dallas’ O. Meanwhile our O was regrettably defensible by being predictable. Our O seemed unable to convert faced with critical situations.

    Credit needs to be given to the Dallas D which had a lot of answers all game to our O. To me the pass D failed to hold them down and that was the difference. It is lazy analysis to my mind to blame the game plan when the pass attemptnumbers were higher than you might think.
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  • jammerhawk wrote:The team only lost by 2 points and it was the D that failed to stop Dallas’ O. Meanwhile our O was regrettably defensible by being predictable. Our O seemed unable to convert faced with critical situations.

    Credit needs to be given to the Dallas D which had a lot of answers all game to our O. To me the pass D failed to hold them down and that was the difference. It is lazy analysis to my mind to blame the game plan when the pass attemptnumbers were higher than you might think.


    When the run game sucked all the way through the 3rd quarter and you insist on running consistently in the 4th expecting a different outcome....

    Einstein my friend
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  • If Pete coached had the Cowboys team they would be SB contenders and last nights game wouldnt have been close.If Red coached the Seahawks we would be sub 500.
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  • Well, since the real powers that be just extended PC for an additional 3 years, sure looks to me like we are in for another 3-4 years of the same old same old.
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  • Fade wrote:
    seabowl wrote:Look I love that Pete is the coach and has done a wonderful job since he's been here bringing us a bowl. With this said I've never seen a team lose so many games due to bad coaching decision or gameplans. Last night was the latest debacle. From the XLIX nightmare to Cabevell to the beginning and ends of the 2018 season, it's perplexing. Not only do fans notice it but when announcers are saying it consistently year after year during the games, it shows there is a serious flaw. I actually feel bad for the players because they are playing hard and doing what they are told to do.

    Again all in all I wouldn't want another coach but I hope he finally learns from his mistakes.



    Pete Carroll is a good football coach, and I am in lock step with a lot of his philosophy. But his rigid straight forward offense is not good enough to win a championship. Unless he can build a legendary defense to make up for it.


    This pretty much sums it up perfectly. Shaq was the goat last night and we lost. Our 2013 defense would not have given up that 3rd and 1 run and probably would have closed out the game after the Wilson TD. I hope we build that defense again.
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  • I would say the Cardinals lost 13 games to bad coaching.
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  • sdog1981 wrote:I would say the Cardinals lost 13 games to bad coaching.


    Not sure what your point is. Th Hawks had enough talent to win that game and others in the past where it seemed painfully obvious that the play calling or game plan was just flat out wrong. Again when announcers who are covering the game call out head scratching plays it makes you wonder what are the coaches seeing or thinking that we are not. Pete is a good coach and great motivator but there are points throughout seasons where his decision making is questionable to say the least and IMO moreso than many other coaches throughout the league.
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  • And I guess all their many wins over the last 7 seasons weren't the byproduct of great coaching? Some of you people are incredible. Truly. We get into the playoffs with a crappy beaten up roster and lose by two points on the road and the delusional MMQBs storm the board with their pitchforks.

    Carroll deserves the congressional medal of honor, the fields medal, an oscar, and the nobel peace prize for getting this team as far as he took them. We have to have the most disloyal, ungrateful fan base in the history of sports. Get a grip.
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  • seabowl wrote:
    sdog1981 wrote:I would say the Cardinals lost 13 games to bad coaching.


    Not sure what your point is. Th Hawks had enough talent to win that game and others in the past where it seemed painfully obvious that the play calling or game plan was just flat out wrong. Again when announcers who are covering the game call out head scratching plays it makes you wonder what are the coaches seeing or thinking that we are not. Pete is a good coach and great motivator but there are points throughout seasons where his decision making is questionable to say the least and IMO moreso than many other coaches throughout the league.


    Agreed, and I am sick to death of holding onto offensive coordinators that cannot adjust. That game was Bevell 2.0.

    Cut your losses.
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  • seabowl wrote:Look I love that Pete is the coach and has done a wonderful job since he's been here bringing us a bowl. With this said I've never seen a team lose so many games due to bad coaching decision or gameplans. Last night was the latest debacle. From the XLIX nightmare to Cabevell to the beginning and ends of the 2018 season, it's perplexing. Not only do fans notice it but when announcers are saying it consistently year after year during the games, it shows there is a serious flaw. I actually feel bad for the players because they are playing hard and doing what they are told to do.

    Again all in all I wouldn't want another coach but I hope he finally learns from his mistakes.


    We went 10-6 during a rebuild year with major injuries, holes and depth issues all over the roster. What exactly were Pete's "coaching mistakes" that held this team back again?

    It was BECAUSE of Pete's coaching and personnel moves that got us this far, and gives me and others hope that we're headed in the right direction.
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  • seabowl wrote:Look I love that Pete is the coach and has done a wonderful job since he's been here bringing us a bowl. With this said I've never seen a team lose so many games due to bad coaching decision or gameplans. Last night was the latest debacle. From the XLIX nightmare to Cabevell to the beginning and ends of the 2018 season, it's perplexing. Not only do fans notice it but when announcers are saying it consistently year after year during the games, it shows there is a serious flaw. I actually feel bad for the players because they are playing hard and doing what they are told to do.

    Again all in all I wouldn't want another coach but I hope he finally learns from his mistakes.



    Agreed on all counts, let's hope he figures it out, I wonder if he would benefit from what they did to Holmgren and taking away some of his responsibility so he can focus more?
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    seabowl wrote:Look I love that Pete is the coach and has done a wonderful job since he's been here bringing us a bowl. With this said I've never seen a team lose so many games due to bad coaching decision or gameplans. Last night was the latest debacle. From the XLIX nightmare to Cabevell to the beginning and ends of the 2018 season, it's perplexing. Not only do fans notice it but when announcers are saying it consistently year after year during the games, it shows there is a serious flaw. I actually feel bad for the players because they are playing hard and doing what they are told to do.

    Again all in all I wouldn't want another coach but I hope he finally learns from his mistakes.


    We went 10-6 during a rebuild year with major injuries, holes and depth issues all over the roster. What exactly were Pete's "coaching mistakes" that held this team back again?

    It was BECAUSE of Pete's coaching and personnel moves that got us this far, and gives me and others hope that we're headed in the right direction.



    By Petes own admission his mistake was not adjusting sooner, so he gets it, weird how some on this board cant.

    Some of you are acting like we think he sucks or we should get a new coach. Most are not saying that you guys a quick to call out the players but PC you will not, He is a great coach but not perfect, in this game he made mistakes. Not adjusting sooner, and relying on players he knew were hurt too much, both of which he admitted to.
    Last edited by John63 on Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • OMG, if they abandon the run and lose the announcers blame lack of consistency. The point is, if you win the game no one complains. Our kicker missed a FG that was a 50/50 shot in 2019. He pulled a hammy. Shaq failed to contain on a run to the outside. The refs called PI twice that were ticky tacky. The refs called 78 for PF for a bump into an opposing player that was really just a bump into a player who perfectly flopped. So many reasons we lost, and PC wasn't involved in any of them.

    Isn't it past time to find a quality FG kicker?

    Isn't it past time to tell our outstanding punter to kick it out of bounds and not just to the sideline?

    Is there no other player on the roster who can kick an onside kick? Hell I can do that easily and with nearly 100% accuracy. You kick the top part of the ball FROM A TEE. Can't the punter USE A FRICKIN TEE? Or does it hurt his rugby feelings?

    I am serious, these are simple fixes that I would complain to the coach about if I had his ear.
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  • John63 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    seabowl wrote:Look I love that Pete is the coach and has done a wonderful job since he's been here bringing us a bowl. With this said I've never seen a team lose so many games due to bad coaching decision or gameplans. Last night was the latest debacle. From the XLIX nightmare to Cabevell to the beginning and ends of the 2018 season, it's perplexing. Not only do fans notice it but when announcers are saying it consistently year after year during the games, it shows there is a serious flaw. I actually feel bad for the players because they are playing hard and doing what they are told to do.

    Again all in all I wouldn't want another coach but I hope he finally learns from his mistakes.


    We went 10-6 during a rebuild year with major injuries, holes and depth issues all over the roster. What exactly were Pete's "coaching mistakes" that held this team back again?

    It was BECAUSE of Pete's coaching and personnel moves that got us this far, and gives me and others hope that we're headed in the right direction.



    By Pets own admission his mistake was not adjusting sooner, so he gets it, weird how some on this board cant.

    Some of you are acting like we think he sucks or we should get a new coach. Most are not saying that you guys a quick to call out the players but PC you will not, He is a great coach but not perfect, in this game he made mistakes. Not adjusting sooner, and relying on players he knew were hurt too much, both of which he admitted to.


    There are mistakes and then there are mistakes. This was a mistake that nearly EVERYONE could see immediately but our coach only sees it in hindsight?

    Was it him or the OC? That's probably the more important question.
    DomeHawk
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  • Make no mistake about it, Pete runs the show. When we were running in to a brick wall, PETE can make sure that Shotty switches things up.
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  • John63 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    seabowl wrote:Look I love that Pete is the coach and has done a wonderful job since he's been here bringing us a bowl. With this said I've never seen a team lose so many games due to bad coaching decision or gameplans. Last night was the latest debacle. From the XLIX nightmare to Cabevell to the beginning and ends of the 2018 season, it's perplexing. Not only do fans notice it but when announcers are saying it consistently year after year during the games, it shows there is a serious flaw. I actually feel bad for the players because they are playing hard and doing what they are told to do.

    Again all in all I wouldn't want another coach but I hope he finally learns from his mistakes.


    We went 10-6 during a rebuild year with major injuries, holes and depth issues all over the roster. What exactly were Pete's "coaching mistakes" that held this team back again?

    It was BECAUSE of Pete's coaching and personnel moves that got us this far, and gives me and others hope that we're headed in the right direction.



    By Pets own admission his mistake was not adjusting sooner, so he gets it, weird how some on this board cant.

    Some of you are acting like we think he sucks or we should get a new coach. Most are not saying that you guys a quick to call out the players but PC you will not, He is a great coach but not perfect, in this game he made mistakes. Not adjusting sooner, and relying on players he knew were hurt too much, both of which he admitted to.


    Premise of thread: "We lose WAY TOO OFTEN" due to coaching mistakes

    Example: One half of one playoff game totally discounting Pete's entire coaching career or other examples that outweigh all the times his coaching in both college and the pros has resulted in his teams winning more than losing, to the tune of National Championships, playoffs and Super Bowls.

    Is he infallible? Of course not, no coach is. Thus this thread is utterly ridiculous, and is based off of the OP being mad at losing one playoff game, and not firing coordinators soon enough..........coordinators that helped us win a SB and that Pete was loyal to.

    Garbage premise, and garbage thread. If Pete made "too many coaching mistakes" he wouldn't be coaching anymore. He makes more right decisions than wrong decisions, by a WIDE margin, that's why he's 67 and has had the success he's had.
    Sgt. Largent
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    seabowl wrote:Look I love that Pete is the coach and has done a wonderful job since he's been here bringing us a bowl. With this said I've never seen a team lose so many games due to bad coaching decision or gameplans. Last night was the latest debacle. From the XLIX nightmare to Cabevell to the beginning and ends of the 2018 season, it's perplexing. Not only do fans notice it but when announcers are saying it consistently year after year during the games, it shows there is a serious flaw. I actually feel bad for the players because they are playing hard and doing what they are told to do.

    Again all in all I wouldn't want another coach but I hope he finally learns from his mistakes.


    We went 10-6 during a rebuild year with major injuries, holes and depth issues all over the roster. What exactly were Pete's "coaching mistakes" that held this team back again?

    It was BECAUSE of Pete's coaching and personnel moves that got us this far, and gives me and others hope that we're headed in the right direction.



    By Pets own admission his mistake was not adjusting sooner, so he gets it, weird how some on this board cant.

    Some of you are acting like we think he sucks or we should get a new coach. Most are not saying that you guys a quick to call out the players but PC you will not, He is a great coach but not perfect, in this game he made mistakes. Not adjusting sooner, and relying on players he knew were hurt too much, both of which he admitted to.


    Premise of thread: "We lose WAY TOO OFTEN" due to coaching mistakes

    Example: One half of one playoff game totally discounting Pete's entire coaching career or other examples that outweigh all the times his coaching in both college and the pros has resulted in his teams winning more than losing, to the tune of National Championships, playoffs and Super Bowls.

    Is he infallible? Of course not, no coach is. Thus this thread is utterly ridiculous, and is based off of the OP being mad at losing one playoff game, and not firing coordinators soon enough..........coordinators that helped us win a SB and that Pete was loyal to.

    Garbage premise, and garbage thread. If Pete made "too many coaching mistakes" he wouldn't be coaching anymore. He makes more right decisions than wrong decisions, by a WIDE margin, that's why he's 67 and has had the success he's had.


    I don't most people here can be accused of not forgiving mistakes. At the risk of stating the obvious, everyone makes them, we all know that. I don't think that is what people here, and most of the national media, are saying.

    It was a MONUMENTAL mistake, and more than that, it was an OBVIOUS mistake.

    The fact that you cannot see that is on you.
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  • DomeHawk wrote:
    The fact that you cannot see that is on you.


    Even though I've said about 10 times now in numerous threads that I also think we should have made better adjustments during the game? Gotcha.

    See, that's the difference between me and some of you guys. I'm able to compartmentalize drives, games, seasons and careers and not paint criticism with broad brush strokes and indict Pete's entire career or coaching philosophy with these nonsense threads about how we lose way too often due to his coaching mistakes.

    Way too often, it's actually laughable it's so stupid.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    DomeHawk wrote:
    The fact that you cannot see that is on you.


    Even though I've said about 10 times now in numerous threads that I also think we should have made better adjustments during the game? Gotcha.

    See, that's the difference between me and some of you guys. I'm able to compartmentalize drives, games, seasons and careers and not paint criticism with broad brush strokes and indict Pete's entire career or coaching philosophy with these nonsense threads about how we lose way too often due to his coaching mistakes.

    Way too often, it's actually laughable it's so stupid.


    I compare Pete to Coach Petersen in some ways, both are great program coaches, excel in player development, and BOTH make incredibly stupid game-time decisions.

    I guess you have to take the good with the bad but jezuzz, it is beyond frustrating.

    We should have, not could have, won that game and it is ENTIRELY on the coach!
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  • The obvious mistake is thinking that any changes or adjustments wouldn’t have guaranteed victory any more than staying the course.

    2-13.... that was their 3rd down efficiency. If they convert 4 more they could’ve seen 12 more plays. Even if they went 6/6 run/pass it puts the total at 30/33 run/pass and all the numbers that go with it. Like most games it really comes down to execution over play call in my opinion.

    Every game all players and coaches can find mistakes in their game win or lose.
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  • Flyingsquad23 wrote:The obvious mistake is thinking that any changes or adjustments wouldn’t have guaranteed victory any more than staying the course.

    2-13.... that was their 3rd down efficiency. If they convert 4 more they could’ve seen 12 more plays. Even if they went 6/6 run/pass it puts the total at 30/33 run/pass and all the numbers that go with it. Like most games it really comes down to execution over play call in my opinion.

    Every game all players and coaches can find mistakes in their game win or lose.


    Some of the most ridiculous stat referencing I have ever seen on this board. 3rd-down efficiency was created by the very thing everyone is complaining about!

    Get it?
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  • DomeHawk wrote:
    We should have, not could have, won that game and it is ENTIRELY on the coach!


    Maybe, maybe not.

    It's easy and simplistic to arrive at this conclusion when you use the formula of run didn't work = therefore more passing would have yielded better results.

    The complex reality is there was MANY more factor than just "more passing."

    - timely terrible penalties
    - allowing a 3rd and 14 to be converted at the end of the game
    - Dallas was the more physical team
    - Dallas executed better
    - key injuries hampering the play of guys like Griffin, Flowers, Sweezy, Doug and Fluker

    That's the beauty of sports, and why we watch. All these moving parts of preparation + skill + effort + luck. So yes maybe more passing or making adjustments to the playcalling would have resulted in winning. But it's not a certainty by any stretch..........and certainly doesn't feed into the OP's original take that Pete makes too many coaching mistakes.

    So lose to Dallas in the playoffs in a year we overachieved with the level of roster talent and coach turnover and now it's pete makes too many mistakes and what? Fire him? C'mon people, you're better than this.
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  • seabowl wrote:
    jammerhawk wrote:The team only lost by 2 points and it was the D that failed to stop Dallas’ O. Meanwhile our O was regrettably defensible by being predictable. Our O seemed unable to convert faced with critical situations.

    Credit needs to be given to the Dallas D which had a lot of answers all game to our O. To me the pass D failed to hold them down and that was the difference. It is lazy analysis to my mind to blame the game plan when the pass attemptnumbers were higher than you might think.


    When the run game sucked all the way through the 3rd quarter and you insist on running consistently in the 4th expecting a different outcome....

    Einstein my friend


    They ran consistently in the 4th Quarter? Why do people insist on suspending reality to back up their narrative? :34853_doh:
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  • I think we need to reconcile with the reality that just because we have a great QB, does not mean we are going to have success in the playoffs.

    The football that made Carroll successful is going to be what he runs with, what he knows.

    I certainly don't think any change is going to result in a better coach (HC) arriving.

    But I do know that Carroll tends to do 3 things:

    1 - Develop hidden or overlooked talent into fantastic players. He has a way of developing a roster quickly.

    2 - Struggle to find effective assistant coaches (He has had this since USC). Occasionally he gets a good one, but for the most part there are a lot of dogs in there, even back in USC.

    3 - Produce an overall result that in hindsight seems much less than it should have been. All those stellar recruiting classes at USC seemed to result in a lot less titles than you would expect. A roster filled with HOF players only wins one SB. A ten win season with the #1 rushing offense ends with zero playoff wins.

    I convinced myself that this was a big area that #3 would change because literally every issue that held Wilson back before seemed to be close to resolved. This was the year that Wilson showed himself an Elite QB in the playoffs. Well, it didn't happen but I shouldn't have expected it.

    But, is a ten win season better than an 8 win season? That was the expectation.

    Is it OK to pile up great regular season #s in tremendously watchable games even though you don't win anything in the playoffs? I suppose so.

    Carroll is going to continue with his approach. The stuff that worked has been copied and deployed around the NFL. He did change the NFL on that. The stuff that doesn't? Carroll is still going to insist on. Overall his best days are behind him but he will still pile up records above .500.

    We got a SB win out of it. He delivered. I don't know it makes sense to expect more considering the reality. But the regular seasons are watchable, the wins are fun and expecting playoff wins with our current OC seems odd considering his name is literally slang for great regular seasons combined with playoff flameouts.
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  • Some of the most ridiculous stat referencing I have ever seen on this board. 3rd-down efficiency was created by the very thing everyone is complaining about!

    Get it?[/quote]


    Whether or not you think it is ridiculous, my point stands. If you don't convert on third down you don't get anymore chances to run or pass on that drive. Four times they threw the ball on 3rd and 6 or less, missed all of them. More passing didn't guarantee anything. 27<35 attempts is a great number for Russ and is what he had and could've had with a few more conversions which would've led to....more plays. I don't believe the same game plan that won them 10 games was a mistake.

    1 for 6 on 3rd in the first half with the only conversion coming on the 2nd to last play, a 3 yard run. 13 chances on 3rd down and they coverted 2. Execute on any of those lost opportunities to extend drives and most certainly points would've been scored using the game plan they went with. Again the game plan and coaching wasn't a mistake in my opinion. Get it?
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  • Pete Carroll is a good big picture guy. He has an idea of what he wants, and how he wants to do it. He knows how to put together a program, and he has a set identity. This is both a positive and a negative. Many coaches in the NFL are cut, copy, and paste. They don't have much of an idea of what they want to do, or they just don't have the sway with the front office to get their guys. Another thing Carroll is fantastic at is cobbling defensive pieces together out of seemingly nowhere. Guys like Maxwell and Browner exceeded here, and looked borderline pro bowl quality, when they left to different teams they were exposed. He knows where to put players on defense, and how to minimize their weaknesses, and maximize their inherent strengths.

    This is how Pete Carroll gets the job done. As an in game coach he is very bad. His time management skills are quite possibly the worst i've seen in the NFL. He throws timeouts around like they are candy, and makes very questionable game time decisions. He knows how to put together a program, but his management skills and unshakable philosophical leanings lead to a rigid, unrelenting approach. He has a hard time switching gears when the team has been thrown off the initial game plan. For every Carolina game, you have two Dallas Cowboy games it seems.

    Carroll is somebody that elevates his teams threw off the field management. In game he makes a lot of questionable decisions, and his views on things like the offense are quite frankly outdated. I'd say he gets out coached a lot, but where he shines is in the overall vision of things. I think his teams would be a lot better if he had somebody take much of the game time decisions away from him, mainly on offense.
    Last edited by Spin Doctor on Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:
    Is it OK to pile up great regular season #s in tremendously watchable games even though you don't win anything in the playoffs? I suppose so..


    Sometimes I think I'm in a different team's forum. You're talking about Pete Carroll right? Not like..............Jim Mora or Dennis Erickson? Or maybe you're talking about Marvin Lewis.

    Other than Belichick and Reid, who's had more post season success than Pete in the league right now? and Reid is debatable because he still hasn't won a SB, or even got to one.

    At USC, he dominated for eight years, to the tune of 2 national titles, 4 Rose Bowl wins, 2 Orange Bowl wins and seven Pac 10 titles.

    Man you have a short memory Husky, or your expectations are ridiculous. Either way, good lord.
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  • Would this thread have taken a different direction if the OP had left off the last word in the title? Seems to me that would be more accurate.
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  • Professional football is a 'what have you done for me lately' league.

    What have the Seahawks and Pete Carroll done in the playoffs in the last five years?

    For 2-3 years his iconoclastic approach to how he used the defense and how he drafted, developed and deployed players led to stellar results. Dominant results and HOF players (a good example the big long corner vs the quick, fast corners that were in vogue at the time) peppered the roster.

    But in the past 5 years not only has that success been less significant, but we are actually in a decline. Last year we missed the playoffs, this year we made the wildcard with a slightly better record but after playing a field of much worse teams. We didn't register a playoff win and I don't expect one next year either.

    Do you expect this to change? A lot of Pete's ideas that gave him specific advantages were replicated or legislated out of the game. And he is still clinging to an aging outdated approach to football that does not work in the playoffs.

    You think Marty Ball is suddenly going to start working because Pete wills it so? He will pile up solid regular season records though and that isn't a terrible outcome.

    But the trend is not some amazing improvement that will put us back on top. Our big advantage is our QB, which we refuse to leverage anyway.
    TwistedHusky
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  • I would imagine in the NFL when you have a week to put together a game plan, there isn t a lot of time to have a plan b or c, or "adjust" in game. There are a lot of moving parts. So you make a plan and stick with it. You can be outcoached even before the game starts . like winning the SB 43-8.

    Not considering that kickers carry an inordinate amount of weight (sorry Seabass) in the outcome.

    And timely, end of game penalties. When these 20 somethings are exhausted and desperate and make silly mistakes.

    Is that part of your game plan?
    AubHawk71
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:
    Do you expect this to change? .


    Expect? It's already changing. We just went 10-6 in a rebuild year with holes all over the roster and less talent then most of the teams we beat this year.

    So do I expect to get back to a SB with old man Marty Ball Pete? Yes. Because we saw what he did this year, and I expect him and John to get the D back on one of the dominant defenses in the league with 80M of cap space and draft picks.

    Btw, good thing you were running the Patriots from 2005-2015 with your "what have you done for me lately" attitude, because you would have fired Belichick around 2008 or 2009 because he hadn't won anything in 2-3 years.
    Sgt. Largent
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:
    Do you expect this to change? .


    Expect? It's already changing. We just went 10-6 in a rebuild year with holes all over the roster and less talent then most of the teams we beat this year.

    So do I expect to get back to a SB with old man Marty Ball Pete? Yes. Because we saw what he did this year, and I expect him and John to get the D back on one of the dominant defenses in the league with 80M of cap space and draft picks.

    This wasn't so much of a rebuilding year as it was retooling. We already had most of the core pieces to our success on the roster. That 80M dollar cap space is a little bit misleading as well. We have to re-sign Frank Clark, and KJ, we have a Russell Wilson contract coming up, and both Sweezy, and Fluker are free agents. Sweezy's value especially just shot through the roof as he was a first team pro bowler for the NFC. The Seahawk's need to be very careful about how they spend money this off season. That is, unless Carroll wants to leverage it all for short term success, while sacrificing some pieces in the future.

    Can we get to the Super Bowl? Yes, is it likely? No, not based on what I've seen from the Seahawks since 2015. Pete had several advantages afforded to him that allowed us to push for the Super Bowl that are no longer in play. It is either you're innovating, or you're getting left behind, and unfortunately Pete is in the later group. Carroll is firmly placed in late Holmgren territory. A once brilliant coach that lost his edge, and stagnated. A Carroll led team is a 10-6, 9-7 sort of deal with a quick exit from the playoffs. I mean, I'll take it over having a Gus Bradley, or Hue Jackson figure coaching this team, that being said it is frustrating seeing Russell Wilson's abilities being squandered.
    Spin Doctor
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:
    Do you expect this to change? .


    Expect? It's already changing. We just went 10-6 in a rebuild year with holes all over the roster and less talent then most of the teams we beat this year.

    So do I expect to get back to a SB with old man Marty Ball Pete? Yes. Because we saw what he did this year, and I expect him and John to get the D back on one of the dominant defenses in the league with 80M of cap space and draft picks.

    This wasn't so much of a rebuilding year as it was retooling. We already had most of the core pieces to our success on the roster. That 80M dollar cap space is a little bit misleading as well. We have to re-sign Frank Clark, and KJ, we have a Russell Wilson contract coming up, and both Sweezy, and Fluker are free agents. Sweezy's value especially just shot through the roof as he was a first team pro bowler for the NFC. The Seahawk's need to be very careful about how they spend money this off season. That is, unless Carroll wants to leverage it all for short term success, while sacrificing some pieces in the future.

    Can we get to the Super Bowl? Yes, is it likely? No, not based on what I've seen from the Seahawks since 2015. Pete had several advantages afforded to him that allowed us to push for the Super Bowl that are no longer in play. It is either you're innovating, or you're getting left behind, and unfortunately Pete is in the later group. Carroll is firmly placed in late Holmgren territory. A once brilliant coach that lost his edge, and stagnated. A Carroll led team is a 10-6, 9-7 sort of deal with a quick exit from the playoffs. I mean, I'll take it over having a Gus Bradley, or Hue Jackson figure coaching this team, that being said it is frustrating seeing Russell Wilson's abilities being squandered.



    This!
    John63
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  • We play the same team twice. The first we win 24-13. 2 picks and 5 sacks. The second we lose 22-24. 1 pick and 1 sack.
    The D cost us the game. Do we really need to continue the hypothetical witch hunt against the coaches?
    Tinymac2
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  • My comment above was written when I was disappointed in the result of Saturday night.

    It was the first half that disappointed most with the consecutive 3 and outs. After that I wa more disappointed in the D.

    I don’t think you can lay the blame if you need to lay blame on the the coaching Dallas played well and were the better team on the night. They had a lot of answers for our team on every side of the ball and were the better team on the night. Vent then it was only a 2 point loss after a weak 1st half. If a kick had been made we’d all be looking forward to playing the Rams this weekend.

    In the end all things considered it was a great season that had left lots of room for a great deal of optimism going forward. Now to fix the Special Teams.
    jammerhawk
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  • jeremiah wrote:
    Is there no other player on the roster who can kick an onside kick? Hell I can do that easily and with nearly 100% accuracy. You kick the top part of the ball FROM A TEE. Can't the punter USE A FRICKIN TEE? Or does it hurt his rugby feelings?

    Out of all of it this is what blew me away at the end of the game. Why the hell do you kick the ball 30 yards down the field so absolutely NOBODY can even make a play on the ball? At least TRY to do an onside kick giving somebody a chance.
    A.D.I.D.A.S.
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    Can we get to the Super Bowl? Yes, is it likely? No, not based on what I've seen from the Seahawks since 2015. Pete had several advantages afforded to him that allowed us to push for the Super Bowl that are no longer in play. It is either you're innovating, or you're getting left behind, and unfortunately Pete is in the later group. Carroll is firmly placed in late Holmgren territory. A once brilliant coach that lost his edge, and stagnated. A Carroll led team is a 10-6, 9-7 sort of deal with a quick exit from the playoffs. I mean, I'll take it over having a Gus Bradley, or Hue Jackson figure coaching this team, that being said it is frustrating seeing Russell Wilson's abilities being squandered.


    What innovation has Bill Belichick brought to the NFL over his career? Other then just being an INSANELY detailed savant that demands perfection in how he wants his schemes executed day in and day out, practice to practice and game to game from every single person in the building...........and that gives his teams a better chance of winning because they out prepare, make less mistakes and out execute their opponents.

    People are too quick to jump on the jocks of the new flavor of "innovators." Andy Reid is considered an offensive genius innovator, zero SB's. Everyone wants the next Sean McVay, zero SB's. Kyle Shanahan? Went 4-12 this year.

    Pete has said it himself many times, the rules may change but football is still football. Preparation, practice, heart, size, physicality, athleticism, and a coach that knows how to put it all together and win.

    That's Pete, if you didn't see that he can still do that this year with a young unproven raw roster with less talent then most of our opponents, then you weren't paying attention.
    Sgt. Largent
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  • He's a hell of a coach, one of the best in the league. Just seems like his stubborn nature cost him in this game.
    That being said, it's on the players to make the plays, period.
    SoulfishHawk
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  • All teams lose to coaching mistakes. You're just saying we lose too often. Every fan-base, minus the more reasonable Patriots fans, probably feel that way.
    BirdsCommaAngry
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  • After watching Rex Ryan for years here in NY, and watching the Jags, it’s just a mindset by defensive minded head coaches. They see offenses as getting in the way of the game plan. So he’s never going to let Russell sling it all day unless it’s absolutely necessary

    That gameplan against the Cowboys was extremely conservative, almost Jason Garrett or Mike McCarthy like. We played like we were trying to outlast them. With defensive minded head coaches, they RARELY have a QB of Wilson’s stature. People always say “well can you imagine if the 2010 Jets or the Jaguars had a QB??? That’s the problem, these coaches are conservative by nature and won’t invest or lean too much on their offense. I almost feel sorry for Russ in the sense that even with a good running game, he’s still asked to work with an offense that the team doesn’t heavily invest in.

    Baldwin, Lockett, and Penny, our three most dynamic skill position players were under-utilized in this game, and that’s a shame
    Scorpion05
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:He's a hell of a coach, one of the best in the league. Just seems like his stubborn nature cost him in this game.
    That being said, it's on the players to make the plays, period.


    Of everything being posted, this is the most accurate. In the end, their players outplayed our players. Their front seven dominated our mostly average and injured offensive line. It is hard to make adjustments work when their linemen are playing four and five yards in your backfield. The quick passing game that so many people here whine about us not having requires the line to open up passing lanes. When their D-Line is pushing your linemen around consistently (if you didn't see this in game, check your eyesight) those passing lanes are not there.
    BASF
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  • Scorpion05 wrote:After watching Rex Ryan for years here in NY, and watching the Jags, it’s just a mindset by defensive minded head coaches. They see offenses as getting in the way of the game plan. So he’s never going to let Russell sling it all day unless it’s absolutely necessary

    That gameplan against the Cowboys was extremely conservative, almost Jason Garrett or Mike McCarthy like. We played like we were trying to outlast them. With defensive minded head coaches, they RARELY have a QB of Wilson’s stature. People always say “well can you imagine if the 2010 Jets or the Jaguars had a QB??? That’s the problem, these coaches are conservative by nature and won’t invest or lean too much on their offense. I almost feel sorry for Russ in the sense that even with a good running game, he’s still asked to work with an offense that the team doesn’t heavily invest in.

    Baldwin, Lockett, and Penny, our three most dynamic skill position players were under-utilized in this game, and that’s a shame


    Poor Russ, all he gets to do is go to SB's, Pro Bowls, playoffs every year, play for a top 2-3 organization, make top QB money and throw for 35 TD's. WHY GOD WHY!!??
    Sgt. Largent
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  • While I agree that the Dallas Gameplan wasn't the best in the history of the NFL, the view that Pete loses way too many games due to his mistakes is a myopic narrative. There are 30 other fan bases that feel the exact same way about their coaches. Largely because fans can't recognize the difference between a bad outcome and coaching negligence.

    Was the gameplan a mistake in hindsight? I guess so, we lost. Would an alternate gameplan worked out better? Not necessarily.

    One of Pete's qualities that makes him such a good coach is his belief in his players. He believed the OL could get the run game going when the rest of us didn't. It burned him. But many other games that belief has led to amazing comebacks. His players play hard for him precisely because of that optimism and belief. Look at a hard ass coach like Mike Zimmer. That team underachieved badly because Zimmer shows no faith at times. If the coach doesn't believe the guys are getting it done, the guys don't believe either.

    Pete is not Belichek. So far no coach has entered that pantheon. But he's definitely in the next tier. And ranting about that coaching tier is pretty silly since generally every other coach is worse.

    There were lots of reasons we lost to the Cowboys. Gameplan was one of them. But we won 10 games this year and gameplan was also one of the reasons in each of those victories too. You can't ignore victories and only look at losses.
    Mad Dog
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  • We lose 1 playoff game where adjustments could've been made earlier even though we were winning & now we lose waaaaaaaay too many games due to coaching mistakes?

    Thanks, I needed a good laugh.
    Hockey Guy
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  • jammerhawk wrote:The team only lost by 2 points and it was the D that failed to stop Dallas’ O. Meanwhile our O was regrettably defensible by being predictable. Our O seemed unable to convert faced with critical situations.

    Credit needs to be given to the Dallas D which had a lot of answers all game to our O. To me the pass D failed to hold them down and that was the difference. It is lazy analysis to my mind to blame the game plan when the pass attemptnumbers were higher than you might think.


    Couple things-

    All the cowboys did for 3 quarters is stack the box to stop the run. Not really a lot of answers, just one, and we didn't adjust to take advantage.

    2- by the end of the game passing attempts looked better, but by quarter, they were not. Only finally in the 4th did we begin frequent pass attempts. This skewed the total to appear balanced, as well as saw success and scoring.

    My point is adjustments should have been made at halftime. If they were, we would probably be playing the rams this weekend.

    I am good with Pete and schotty, and hope pete coaches here until he retires, but he did make a mistake in sticking to a plan that clearly wasn't working in this game. I agree with the OP, this loss was mostly a gameplan and playcalling error.
    johnnyfever
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  • Well everyone next season will get to see how things are adjusted, everyone is going to bring that game strategy on defense till we show we can beat it.

    Some teams won't have the personal to do it effectively like the Cowboys, their LB's were the difference in making that work.
    chris98251
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    Can we get to the Super Bowl? Yes, is it likely? No, not based on what I've seen from the Seahawks since 2015. Pete had several advantages afforded to him that allowed us to push for the Super Bowl that are no longer in play. It is either you're innovating, or you're getting left behind, and unfortunately Pete is in the later group. Carroll is firmly placed in late Holmgren territory. A once brilliant coach that lost his edge, and stagnated. A Carroll led team is a 10-6, 9-7 sort of deal with a quick exit from the playoffs. I mean, I'll take it over having a Gus Bradley, or Hue Jackson figure coaching this team, that being said it is frustrating seeing Russell Wilson's abilities being squandered.


    What innovation has Bill Belichick brought to the NFL over his career? Other then just being an INSANELY detailed savant that demands perfection in how he wants his schemes executed day in and day out, practice to practice and game to game from every single person in the building...........and that gives his teams a better chance of winning because they out prepare, make less mistakes and out execute their opponents.

    People are too quick to jump on the jocks of the new flavor of "innovators." Andy Reid is considered an offensive genius innovator, zero SB's. Everyone wants the next Sean McVay, zero SB's. Kyle Shanahan? Went 4-12 this year.

    Pete has said it himself many times, the rules may change but football is still football. Preparation, practice, heart, size, physicality, athleticism, and a coach that knows how to put it all together and win.

    That's Pete, if you didn't see that he can still do that this year with a young unproven raw roster with less talent then most of our opponents, then you weren't paying attention.

    Bill Belicheck is actually pretty crafty as a head coach. Unlike Pete he has the ability to adapt and improvise. He may not be an innovator per say, but he is quick to grab the innovations, and plays from other teams and implement them into his schemes. Bill Belicheck is constantly adapting, and evolving. He isn't beholden to one scheme or philosophy. He knows how to attack you from multiple different angles. One game he'll come out looking like Andy Reid is coaching, and the next it'll look like a Schottenheimer, run it up your gut special, and impose your will on others. He adapts the personnel to fit his players strengths and weaknesses. No two Patriot teams look alike in their approach.

    This is Carroll's greatest weakness, especially on offense. He is rigid with his approach, and he refuses to adapt, and evolve. We're using a passing offense that looks straight out of the 70s, pre west coast offense.

    Mark my words, under Pete Carroll we will never get a SuperBowl, ever again, period. He has peaked, and now he's just another guy. We'll get consistently 10 wins, maybe 9 in an off year, but it will be one and done, or like this season, a straight up loss in the first game. He is a stubborn fool who refuses to see his short comings, and would rather lose his way, than win with another approach.

    I'm frustrated. Carroll squandered one of the best teams of all time, and what we've been witnessing is a slow decline into mediocrity. This is post 2005 Holmgren we're dealing with now, and it is as plain as the day to see. People talk about the 2000 Ravens, and 1985 Bears, the Seahawks were right up there with them. The biggest difference is that we didn't have Dilfer, or and oft injured McMahon as our Quarterbacks. Instead we had a Quarterback that while flawed, and unconventional was one of the most efficient QB's of all time, and has been at least a top 10 QB since his rookie year. Dilfer and McMahon? Career journeyman.
    Spin Doctor
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  • Everyone is entitled to their viewpoint, negative as it may be.

    What you saw this season was a team in transition from a team with a handful of defensive stars who were often injured and expensive observers of a younger team hamstrung by the bloated salaries of these injured stars. The team transitioned pretty well making the playoffs by returning to the things that had brought them success in the past. They still need to improve on D. However. Yep, simply a stubborn determination to run the ball allowed a successful transition. The national media had to chow down on a lot of crow with their 4-12 and 5-11 predictions. Don’t for a second think that the KC game wasn’t impressive.

    Was it a coaching mistake to continue to try to do what got them into the playoffs both in the past and this season? Of course it was, at least arguably when they found they couldn’t succeed pounding the ball as Dallas had an answer for them with their exceptional LB play. So then the mistake if there was one was not transitioning to a psssing based attack until the second half which is exactly what they did. The team did pass more on O than they ran in that game. check the game book summary, they also passed more in the second half. It was the first half that was the frustrating part of the Dallas loss.

    As I mentioned earlier here the the team lost by just 2 lousy points and it wasn’t the O that’s responsible for the L. To me blaming coaching mistakes is not the true reason for the loss of this game. By doing that you fail to acknowledge that Dallas was well prepared and does have a quality D that had answers for the Hawks in the first half. No loss is ever a happy result but you have to be encouraged by the direction of our team.

    Pete is a great coach, he deserved to be in the discussion for Coach of the Year this season. I’m not buying into the negative viewpoints. I think the team will be a contender again and soon. Changes are being made and more will come. I watch and hope to see a change of direction from the Special Teams coaching, the strength and conditioning crew has been moved out. There will be more changes.
    Last edited by jammerhawk on Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
    jammerhawk
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