Should Russell be more involved with game plan/play calling?

John63":386k7d3j said:

Seanhawk":386k7d3j said:

Uncle Si":386k7d3j said:

Does anyone know how much input he has already?

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No one here does.

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And yet we have some saying he should, some saying he already does, and some saying he is not smart enough. One thing we do know is even if he does he does not have the final say so. For all, we know he does not agree with anything but is being overruled by the HC. That said, in the end, it is the HC with final say

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It is, and it's well documented that Pete has always been reluctant to hand more power to Wilson. It wasn't even halfway into Wilson's rookie season that Warren Moon came out with that little tidbit about Wilson insisting to Pete that he could do more, that the offense could do more.

Thepeelsessions":2e3jwqs3 said:

I'm a firm believer in that one of the main reasons the Patriots are the dynasty they are is because of TB12's ability to check out of a play whenever he sees fit. He is so good at recognizing a defense at the LOS and exploiting that particular defense on the fly.

I really believe that if Russ can diagnose a defense and audible out, or even call a simple hot route, he would. I don't think he can. If he could, there should be no reason Pete wouldn't let him.

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OKay then prove it? You cant and your explanation is no more plausible than any other, The reality is we don't know. All we know is some want to use this as an excuse to own blame, Wilson. The reality is all we know is the HC has final say period. For all, we know he can but those routes are to the middle of the field were we know PC does not like to throw, he has said so. If you bothered to listen to the breakdown of games you would here them say many times he does audible, but personnel also limits what he can audible to if he has only 1 wr and 2 Tes and the play that would work requires 2 wr then guess what it will fail. What I find interesting is without any proof some here just want to blame Wilson. You can really believe what you want, but you can't prove it, so in the end, it is just desired to blame Wilson rather than any fact. The only FACT we know is the HC has final say. Since we want to play that factless junk then how about it is all POC because he would rather win his way then win at all. Its all PC because he refuses to use the whole field as he is so worried about TOs he will not throw over the middle, Yuu see the 2nd one is actually fact-based as he has said this. Also lets not forget Wilson got yelled at for checking out of calls in the Chicago game, so he might have limited ability to do so, and not because he cant because guess what, whenever we go hurry up guess who is calling and changing the plays? Wilson, it is because the OC and HC are control freaks.

John63":3s5o9bza said:

nwHawk":3s5o9bza said:

John63":3s5o9bza said:

nwHawk":3s5o9bza said:

Can't help but think back to what Beast Mode used to say... do what you do and take over. I would be shocked if Russ doesn't have any input. It's just easier to target coaches, and that target on the chest is part of the job. We can only swing around thoughts and opinions - aren't supposed to know the truth.

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I am sure he has input, but he is far from the final word. that is all PC. As I said for all we know he has di8sagreed with much but PC overruled him. The reason the coaches get the brunt is, we know for a fact they have input and final say.

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So... if Russ adds a wrinkle or play that could help the team do you really think Pete would veto it? Sounds like disgruntled fanspeak.

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So if Russ has a play or wrinkle that he thinks will help the team but Pete disagrees or thinks it is to risky, who do you think wins? Simple HC sounds like blind HC worship to me. In the end, the HC has the final say

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HC has final say, but Pete has been around the block. You act like Pete is the second coming of Rex Ryan. Pete has stones and he actually calls some crazy chit sometimes. But I don't think he micro manages every play or play call.

nwHawk":k2dvfcwp said:

John63":k2dvfcwp said:

nwHawk":k2dvfcwp said:

John63":k2dvfcwp said:

I am sure he has input, but he is far from the final word. that is all PC. As I said for all we know he has di8sagreed with much but PC overruled him. The reason the coaches get the brunt is, we know for a fact they have input and final say.

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So... if Russ adds a wrinkle or play that could help the team do you really think Pete would veto it? Sounds like disgruntled fanspeak.

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So if Russ has a play or wrinkle that he thinks will help the team but Pete disagrees or thinks it is to risky, who do you think wins? Simple HC sounds like blind HC worship to me. In the end, the HC has the final say

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HC has final say, but Pete has been around the block. You act like Pete is the second coming of Rex Ryan. Pete has stones and he actually calls some crazy chit sometimes. But I don't think he micro manages every play or play call.

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Not saying he does, the point is we don't know it is just as likely as the Wilson is not smart enough to do it. The reality is we don't know, but we do know the HC has final say.

John63":1o0nnktp said:

he does audible, but personnel also limits what he can audible to if he has only 1 wr and 2 Tes and the play that would work requires 2 wr then guess what it will fail.

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Best thing about Brady is he takes what is available and puts passes in locations that best fit the situation. Sometimes a win is just a dump off pass or a short to intermediate route. Keep the defense guessing.

Russ does audible, or at least it looks like it but he also runs the play clock down giving the defense time to adjust. Teams might sucker him in and then adjust on the fly. How do we know which was better? When we are in strick hurry up he has to commit and make calls quick which does not give the defense time to adjust.

Oh by the way, the biggest adjustment Sean McVay made his 1st year was to get Goeff to the line in under 15 seconds so McVay could make the adjustments and not leave his QB on his own. With that said, we still don't know if the hurry up offensive success is Russ calling plays, or the offensive coordinator.

I like Wilson, but there was been questions for a few years so it seems valid to question. Having said that, he's still the best QB the Seahawks have ever had - hands down!

nwHawk":3sy1sqbb said:

John63":3sy1sqbb said:

he does audible, but personnel also limits what he can audible to if he has only 1 wr and 2 Tes and the play that would work requires 2 wr then guess what it will fail.

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Best thing about Brady is he takes what is available and puts passes in locations that best fit the situation. Sometimes a win is just a dump off pass or a short to intermediate route. Keep the defense guessing.

Russ does audible, or at least it looks like it but he also runs the play clock down giving the defense time to adjust. Teams might sucker him in and then adjust on the fly. How do we know which was better? When we are in strick hurry up he has to commit and make calls quick which does not give the defense time to adjust.

Oh by the way, the biggest adjustment Sean McVay made his 1st year was to get Goeff to the line in under 15 seconds so McVay could make the adjustments and not leave his QB on his own. With that said, we still don't know if the hurry up offensive success is Russ calling plays, or the offensive coordinator.

I like Wilson, but there was been questions for a few years so it seems valid to question. Having said that, he's still the best QB the Seahawks have ever had - hands down!

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Hurry up I am pretty sure they call a few at a time, remember we go crazy with the seemingly lack of urgency in two minute offense many times. When you have a pass as a QB you can call plays at the line. When we see no huddle "rarely" that is most likely Wilson calling plays.

nwHawk":3hhvqmki said:

John63":3hhvqmki said:

he does audible, but personnel also limits what he can audible to if he has only 1 wr and 2 Tes and the play that would work requires 2 wr then guess what it will fail.

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Best thing about Brady is he takes what is available and puts passes in locations that best fit the situation. Sometimes a win is just a dump off pass or a short to intermediate route. Keep the defense guessing.

Russ does audible, or at least it looks like it but he also runs the play clock down giving the defense time to adjust. Teams might sucker him in and then adjust on the fly. How do we know which was better? When we are in strick hurry up he has to commit and make calls quick which does not give the defense time to adjust.

Oh by the way, the biggest adjustment Sean McVay made his 1st year was to get Goeff to the line in under 15 seconds so McVay could make the adjustments and not leave his QB on his own. With that said, we still don't know if the hurry up offensive success is Russ calling plays, or the offensive coordinator.

I like Wilson, but there was been questions for a few years so it seems valid to question. Having said that, he's still the best QB the Seahawks have ever had - hands down!

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The problem is everything you just said could be the OC and HC doing as well. FYI in the hurry up the OC cant call plays not enough time, It is call it at the line and go.

Some of these Brady narratives need to stop. He missed some throws, he turns it over, and he can’t handle pressure

He can also “take a pay cut” because his wife is worth 300 million

The Patriots beat the far more talented Chargers, and the very explosive Chiefs. That win is 80% Belicheck. He made the Chiefs offense look like the Jaguars

Not saying Brady isn’t great. But he can literally miss throws, throw picks, and people will come on here talking about how he’s always precise. People truly place narratives ahead of what they actually see on TV

Well, I watched the games so it wasn't a loose comment. Bellacheat is a hell of a coach, but Brady is still a hell of a QB, like it or not. By the way, the Jaguars would love to be able to put up 24 points in a quarter - in any game. Belicheck wasn't as perfect as he sometimes is made out to be. If that was the Seahawks, fans would have gone ballistic that Pete gave up 24 points in the 4th quarter.

The Seahawks and Patriots are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum.

The Patriots be like: If you do this, we'll do that.

The Seahawks be like. If you do this, well we're doing it anyway, we don't care, and we're going to keep doing it.

quote="Fade"]The Seahawks and Patriots are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum.
The Patriots be like: If you do this, we'll do that.
The Seahawks be like. If you do this, well we're doing it anyway, we don't care, and we're going to keep doing it.[/quote]

Yeah, we're going to *impose our will* on you.
Plan B? We don't need no stinkin plan B!! Plan B is for wimps and losers!!

Aka, Soviet Red Army WWII internal motivational tactics. As I understand it, they had a group of soldiers at the back whose primary job was to shoot any soldiers in front of them who tried to desert or otherwise go off script. You will win this in Comrade Stalin's way, or you will give your best and die trying.
Granted, this Red Army metaphor is a little harsh as a comparison for Pete's way, and no actual Seahawks players were killed in the loss to the Cowboys.
And of course we all love it and are cheering wildly when "Pete's Way" is working. It does feel powerful and satisfying to close a one-score game with a 7-minute all-run drive where the final 3 plays are Russell Wilson kneel-downs at the opponent's 5 yard line.

nwHawk":114wi985 said:

Well, I watched the games so it wasn't a loose comment. Bellacheat is a hell of a coach, but Brady is still a hell of a QB, like it or not. By the way, the Jaguars would love to be able to put up 24 points in a quarter - in any game. Belicheck wasn't as perfect as he sometimes is made out to be. If that was the Seahawks, fans would have gone ballistic that Pete gave up 24 points in the 4th quarter.

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Dude, Brady and Belicheck need each other. But this is false

They took Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce completely out of the game. They shut down the number 1 scoring offense. Last week, they shut down an extremely talented Chargers team

If you don’t think that’s coaching brilliance, and you’re giving most of the credit to Brady, then you’re basically saying reality is irrelevant. It never fails how often Brady gets the majority of the credit for something that is much more comprehensive. Reminds me of Jordan fanatics pretending Phil Jackson didn’t exist

Fade":p1tmuwft said:

The Seahawks and Patriots are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum.

The Patriots be like: If you do this, we'll do that.

The Seahawks be like. If you do this, well we're doing it anyway, we don't care, and we're going to keep doing it.

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Pete's philosophy has always been simplistic, which can be both a virtue and a curse at the same time. He makes no effort to disguise what he is doing. He has the mindset of "we're going to line-up and beat you even if you know what we're doing". That kind of mindset works on defense, but on the offensive side of the ball it is a curse. Our offense has no nuance, and our situational play-calling under Pete on offense has been horrific.

Pete also sees the main goal of the offense as an entity that controls the TOP, and limits turnovers. Beyond that he doesn't seem to care. He also really likes the deep pass because he believes it breaks the enemies moral. Pete ball is all about a game of attrition. It works to some extent, but many times we lose games that we should have won because we are too slow to shift gears, if we shift at all. This is Pete's biggest flaw as a head coach.

KiwiHawk":k8dreci0 said:

Is there a box to guffaw at the absurdity that we would be better judges of Wilson's capability as a play caller than his coaches?

Hell, I don't even know if Wilson has any tactical intelligence. It's like saying Adam Lambert does a good job fronting Queen, so should he write new Queen songs in spite of what Brian May might think?

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His coaches have shown a complete inability to adjust offensively until the last two minutes ie when Wilson is calling the play. So yeah you are the only one to guffaw at the moronic notion that his coaches have a clue about calling an O.

He is involved, as are most veteran elite QB's.

That's what goes on during the week, film study and installing the schemes and gameplans for Sunday...............and guarantee you Russell is part of that process during the week when he meets with his coaches.

What, you think Schotty and Pete wait until an hour before gametime, hand Russell the first 20 scripted plays and gameplan and yell "SURPRISE!!"

olyfan63":249nf1ps said:

quote="Fade"]The Seahawks and Patriots are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum.
The Patriots be like: If you do this, we'll do that.
The Seahawks be like. If you do this, well we're doing it anyway, we don't care, and we're going to keep doing it.

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Yeah, we're going to *impose our will* on you.
Plan B? We don't need no stinkin plan B!! Plan B is for wimps and losers!!

Aka, Soviet Red Army WWII internal motivational...[/quote]

Okay, now this thread really has jumped the shark.

Spin Doctor":i0ltbrrp said:

Fade":i0ltbrrp said:

The Seahawks and Patriots are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum.

The Patriots be like: If you do this, we'll do that.

The Seahawks be like. If you do this, well we're doing it anyway, we don't care, and we're going to keep doing it.

Click to expand...

Pete's philosophy has always been simplistic, which can be both a virtue and a curse at the same time. He makes no effort to disguise what he is doing. He has the mindset of "we're going to line-up and beat you even if you know what we're doing". That kind of mindset works on defense, but on the offensive side of the ball it is a curse. Our offense has no nuance, and our situational play-calling under Pete on offense has been horrific.

Pete also sees the main goal of the offense as an entity that controls the TOP, and limits turnovers. Beyond that he doesn't seem to care. He also really likes the deep pass because he believes it breaks the enemies moral. Pete ball is all about a game of attrition. It works to some extent, but many times we lose games that we should have won because we are too slow to shift gears, if we shift at all. This is Pete's biggest flaw as a head coach.

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Agreed!!

Sgt. Largent":2vxb47zd said:

He is involved, as are most veteran elite QB's.

That's what goes on during the week, film study and installing the schemes and gameplans for Sunday...............and guarantee you Russell is part of that process during the week when he meets with his coaches.

What, you think Schotty and Pete wait until an hour before gametime, hand Russell the first 20 scripted plays and gameplan and yell "SURPRISE!!"

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I am not debating whether he is involved, I am debating how much involvement, and say he has, There is no doubt the HC has final say. So While Wilson can think something is great, and it might be if PC does not want to do it, it is not going to be done

I believe it was on Brock and Salk; Russ has 3 plays that he can audible to--that's it. Maybe it was more for this year? It's also been said that they don't want Russ having to worry to much about "all that stuff" and just have Russ play loose and free.

I think Peyton Manning revolutionized the position and Brady, while not to the extent of Manning, also has the playbook at his disposal at the line of scrimmage. It also shows how difficult it is to play at that mental level and only a few can do it. The quarterback with the full playbook at his disposal at the line of scrimmage is hard to beat--of course a great passrush will negate that in a hurry.

We will never know if Russ is capable while Pete is the HC.

YES! Let him have more control.