Can Flowers & Griffin play up to expectations?

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  • During my off-season reading, I've noticed on multiple occasions that writers, as well as fans, seem to agree that Tre Flowers is going to make a jump in his second season, and for a while, I shared that thought, but then I realized, and I never seen anyone bring this up, that we thought the same about Griffin in his second year. Both Griffin & Flowers had promising rookie seasons, but Griffin had a sophomore slump, and how can we be sure the same won't happen to Flowers? Is there something about Flowers that makes us feel like he's more NFL ready? Then I read the stories that Griffin dropped weight, and is going to bring a different mentality this season, and I respect people who hold themselves accountable, so I guess that gives me a little optimism towards Griffin, but my question is, do you trust Griffin to bounce back, do you trust Flowers won't suffer the same slump Griffin had? At the end of their careers, who do you think is going to end up being the better CB, and why?

    This is just something I've been curious about for a while, and I want to know if other fans are wondering the same thing.
    12AngryHawks
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  • Swagger.

    Trey has it.

    Griffin doesnt.
    McGruff
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  • Griffen switched sides.
    KitsapGuy
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  • Given the word "expectations," the answer is almost assuredly no. Especially after the LOB.
    vin.couve12
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  • Like many, I'm a lot more concerned about Griffin than Flowers. It's pretty obvious Flowers has that "it" factor, still up in the air on Griffin. But he's capable of being real solid. This is a massive year for Griffin.
    Last edited by SoulfishHawk on Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
    SoulfishHawk
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  • I think our secondary especially at cb is of concern this year. If Griffin is not improved it could be a long year for those guys.
    Cyrus12
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  • I think Flowers will improve ;if the Hawks don't try to switch sides with Griffin trying to improve his play . Leave Flowers where he is at . As far as Griffin is concerned ; I really feel that moving Griffin to the left side did affect his play ; but I also feel that his brother being drafted and all the hype and media hoopla that went on for months and into the season was a huge distraction for him . Maybe he can put last year behind him and get his head back in the game . IMO
    xray
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  • We have such high expectations for Griffin after Sherman. Nobody criticizing him fairly acknowledges he switched sides last season, that is a big deal. Griffin himself offered no excuses and thought he could have played better than he did, he was also hurt at the end of the year which caused his reps to be dropped.

    For him it was a perfect storm of crappy, 2nd year player, distractions from his brother, switching sides, relearning how to play and having to overcome learned behaviours, injury, and the unfair comparisons to Sherman. Comparison with Sherman is going to leave Griffin wanting as there are not many CBs who are/will be as good as Sherman. I expect Griffin will play better than most here believe he will this season. I have faith in this player who after his successful first season many here were crowning as a potential Pro Bowl quality CB.

    I think Flowers will continue to develop, and was a tremendous pleasant surprise last year. I want him to stay put on the right side and continue his successful transition from S to CB.
    jammerhawk
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  • Griffin losing 12 lbs. or whatever is huge! I don't think he processes quickly enough or can turn his brain off and just play. But, I'm not going to be overly pessimistic about him because I really do like the kid a lot and am rooting for him. Love Tre, wondering if he can make another jump in year two.
    Tical21
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  • Pete does a tremendous job developing all the defensive backs, I have high expectations for both Flowers and Griffin this coming season and am truly less concerned about the CBs than I am about the Safeties. Absent injury I think we could see more progress from Flowers this year. The battle for the starter @ NCB should be interesting.

    There is however a nice big pile of unproven talent at S and some returners at reserve CB to exploit and there are some CBs here that could become high quality depth behind Griffin and Flowers. There is no absence of speed in the defensive backfield either.
    jammerhawk
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  • There should be some interesting competition at CB soon. I think that Flowers job is safe ; but I think that Griffin will be challenged for his spot on the roster ; but I'm not sure they have anybody in the wings that can take his spot . He may be the best they have in a very critical position . Not sure that's a good thing going forward .
    xray
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  • jammerhawk wrote:Pete does a tremendous job developing all the defensive backs, I have high expectations for both Flowers and Griffin this coming season and am truly less concerned about the CBs than I am about the Safeties. Absent injury I think we could see more progress from Flowers this year. The battle for the starter @ NCB should be interesting.

    There is however a nice big pile of unproven talent at S and some returners at reserve CB to exploit and there are some CBs here that could become high quality depth behind Griffin and Flowers. There is no absence of speed in the defensive backfield either.


    Word.

    Griffin also gets unfairly bashed due to recency bias. A horrible playoff performance is the freshest image in most minds. A game he played severely injured.
    pehawk
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  • Griffin as he is, is a perfectly average starting CB. No better, no worse.

    He is Maxwell or Thurmond or Lane. Put any of them on that side opposite #1 receivers and you probably get similar results.
    McGruff
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  • And Griffin was actually injured much 9f the year.

    Hoping the weight loss helps.
    McGruff
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  • Some of the expectations here are crazy.

    He is a 3rd round pick. There are at least 10 other CBs that were chosen before him.

    Is he living up to the production you want from a barely in the top 100 draft picks pick?

    Probably.

    You don't need to be a Pro-Bowl selection or even a Pro-Bowl alternate to be a successful football player or even a successful corner. But as Vin pointed out, the expectations are crazy because he is replacing a HOF caliber corner that was one of the best of all time (before his injury). And yes I know Sherman was a lower round pick, but you only get dealt a straight flush a few times - it does not mean everything below it is a bad hand.

    So can he play up to expectations?

    Well, that depends. What are your expectations? All-Pro or Top Five at his position? Even Top 10? Probably not.

    Decent, above average and effective cornerback in a scheme that does not ask him to a be a linchpin of the defense? Sure.
    TwistedHusky
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  • The weight loss and calling himself out will make a difference I think. He clearly can be a solid corner. But time will tell if he's a #1. Give the kid a chance, he's what we have right now.
    SoulfishHawk
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:The weight loss and calling himself out will make a difference I think. He clearly can be a solid corner. But time will tell if he's a #1. Give the kid a chance, he's what we have right now.


    I dont think he is a #1.

    But Flowers is.
    McGruff
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  • McGruff wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:The weight loss and calling himself out will make a difference I think. He clearly can be a solid corner. But time will tell if he's a #1. Give the kid a chance, he's what we have right now.


    I dont think he is a #1.

    But Flowers is.


    Pete seemingly disagrees with the above opinion about Griffin, to me Flowers certainly appeared to be a starter last season. Griffin also certainly appeared to be a #1 playing at RCB. Even he thought he didn't have a great season @LCB last year.
    jammerhawk
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  • I think Griffin is a solid 2nd CB.

    And I'm okay with Pete disagreeing.

    Hey there, Jammer . . .
    McGruff
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  • For hawks to anywhere at all this season, these two guys MUST improve on their performance from last year, or we are doomed.

    After starting a season, Flowers surprised us for being adequate if not excelled. Opposing OCs and WRs have plenty of tape on him now and will game plan accordingly. Can he keep improving? We shall see.

    Griffin was way too busy, and too cocky last off season. Glad to see that he owned up his very subpar performance and worked on reducing weight and refocus on football. I actually think he will be way better than last year.




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    toffee
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  • jammerhawk wrote:
    McGruff wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:The weight loss and calling himself out will make a difference I think. He clearly can be a solid corner. But time will tell if he's a #1. Give the kid a chance, he's what we have right now.


    I dont think he is a #1.

    But Flowers is.


    Pete seemingly disagrees with the above opinion about Griffin, to me Flowers certainly appeared to be a starter last season. Griffin also certainly appeared to be a #1 playing at RCB. Even he thought he didn't have a great season @LCB last year.


    Do you think Pete would say anything else? What do you think he'd say "nah, Griffin's never going to be anything other than a #2."

    IMO this is the biggest year since 2010-2011 for our defensive backfield to either prove these are they guys, or that MAJOR changes need to be made going forward.

    - Griffin needs to prove he can be a good to great #1
    - Flowers needs to continue to improve, impress and take the next step into being in the top tier CB's and challege Griffin for the #1 DB spot
    - McDougald and either Thompson or Blair need to emerge out of the pack and solidify the safety position

    Tall order. This is by far the biggest question mark group along with the WR corp for 2019.
    Sgt. Largent
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  • McGruff wrote:I think Griffin is a solid 2nd CB.

    And I'm okay with Pete disagreeing.

    Hey there, Jammer . . .


    Hi CrimeDog!

    Hope you and yours are are well and doing well. Nice to see you posting again! Real life must have settled down some for you.

    As far as these young players are concerned it usually is the 3rd year that tells the whole story. I certainly wasn't being snarky with my comment above as I respect your opinions greatly having asked your thoughts on a number of subjects in the past. Pete a the year end last season said he thought Griff made a reasonable transition to the left side from the right but had a few things to work upon including getting healthy.

    Griffin has been working on his getting back his exceptional speed and and has taken what he thought was a subpar performance by him to heart and wants to prove he is a #1. We will see as the preseason proceeds and know once the bullets fly if he should be the starter at LCB
    jammerhawk
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  • jammerhawk wrote:
    Griffin has been working on his getting back his exceptional speed and and has taken what he thought was a subpar performance by him to heart and wants to prove he is a #1. We will see as the preseason proceeds and know once the bullets fly if he should be the starter at LCB


    Griffin himself admitted over the off season that he was too hyper focused on being a playmaker and taking over for Sherman, and not focused enough on the fundamentals of doing his job and not getting out of position trying to make plays.

    It's a tough transition, that's why there are only a handful of elite CB's in the league. It's a fine line between being able to both do your job consistently AND make plays.

    My personal opinion is that Griffin can't do both, but I do think Flowers has the potential to do both. Which is fine with me if Flowers takes over the #1 and Griffin moves back to #2. Unfortunately I think we've seen Griffin's upside. Good, but never going to be elite......haven't seen Flowers ceiling yet IMO.
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  • KitsapGuy
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  • I'm excited for the secondary as a whole, i hope both corners can take that next step. One thing that gets lost is the LOB had an awesome DL rotation that not only got after the quarterback back but was great against the run. If we can stop the run and get in to 2 and longs and 3rd and longs it sure helps the pass rushers be able to pin their ears back and covers up a lot of mistakes on the back end.
    getnasty
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    jammerhawk wrote:
    Griffin has been working on his getting back his exceptional speed and and has taken what he thought was a subpar performance by him to heart and wants to prove he is a #1. We will see as the preseason proceeds and know once the bullets fly if he should be the starter at LCB


    Unfortunately I think we've seen Griffin's upside. Good, but never going to be elite......haven't seen Flowers ceiling yet IMO.

    So Griffin's ceiling was met ? As a rookie at RCB ? :34853_doh:
    Second year at a different position and struggled.
    You're saying he is incapable of improvement beyond what we saw from him as a rookie.
    Re-think that.
    The Breh
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  • Expectations? From a 3rd and 5th round pick? Expectations would be 2nd tier starter and reserve special teamer with that draft pedigree. If the expectations are that we bag pro bowl corners from 2nd and 3rd day picks, that's crazy talk right there.
    Hitting on back to back Richard Shermans would be like finding Russell Wilson twice in the late rounds. Lightning doesn't strike twice.

    My expectations for Flowers have been met. Decent corner with good tackling ability. If he gets better than that I'm more than happy. My expectations for Griffin are for him to play a bit better than last year but not expecting pro bowl play. If he's decent that's what I'd expect. Wildest dreams has me hoping he could become a pro bowler. Sadly I think the Griffin's are just a little too happy to just be here.
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  • Flowers seems to have more upside at this point but Griffen is entering his third season, the season that often defines how good a pro NFL players will be.
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  • Mad Dog wrote:Expectations? From a 3rd and 5th round pick? Expectations would be 2nd tier starter and reserve special teamer with that draft pedigree. If the expectations are that we bag pro bowl corners from 2nd and 3rd day picks, that's crazy talk right there.
    Hitting on back to back Richard Shermans would be like finding Russell Wilson twice in the late rounds. Lightning doesn't strike twice.

    My expectations for Flowers have been met. Decent corner with good tackling ability. If he gets better than that I'm more than happy. My expectations for Griffin are for him to play a bit better than last year but not expecting pro bowl play. If he's decent that's what I'd expect. Wildest dreams has me hoping he could become a pro bowler. Sadly I think the Griffin's are just a little too happy to just be here.


    Yes you should have high expectations from both your starting corners, especially on this defense with Pete Carroll as your HC...........a supposed DB guru.

    Do I expect both Griffin and Flowers to be perennial pro bowlers? No, but I do expect them to be a strength on our defense, not a detriment as Griffin was at times last year.

    Pete said he was hurt, and that may be true, so we'll see if he can rebound. But make no mistake, you SHOULD have high expectations for our DB position, whoever's playing it. It NEEDS to be a strength of the defense for the unit to succeed.
    Sgt. Largent
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  • I trust Flowers, he seems like a guy who's much, much smarter than Griffin is and fits the 'Seahawks build'. I am almost done with Shaq, he better deliver this season or I'll be happy to see him cut. He pissed me off last season more than anyone else on the team, doesn't have the football IQ of CB1
    quadsas
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  • I expect both to be better than their performance of last season, that is setting the bar pretty low.
    toffee
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  • What's funny is posters that don't know what left and right are for a CB...Griffin is Left CB...
    xray
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  • Just so we're clear, by "expectations" I didn't mean them being the next Sherman, the expectation is for them to play like starting-caliber CB's.
    12AngryHawks
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  • Which they both did.
    McGruff
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