Clayton: Will Seahawks address issues on defense with change

Appyhawk":24py5q7p said:

TreeRon":24py5q7p said:

Appyhawk":24py5q7p said:

He took a lot of sacks though due to thinking about things instead of reacting quickly to incoming threat. Indecision will get him hurt one of these days.

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This is crazy talk. Everyone that has played football at almost any level will acknowledge that not a lot of thinking goes on once the ball is snapped. That's why you practice so everything becomes instinctual.

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At least you spotted the problem. Watch the film 1st half GB, SF, Rams, for 3 recent examples. During the first half it is easy to see that Russ is planted, searching, waiting too long, then taking the sack. As the games progress he becomes more reactive. It's become a repetitive theme. Film doesn't lie.

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The main problem with this is simple, we do not have enough variations on the formations we run. The film that the opponents watch basically tip what we will run. Adjustments to what they are doing are taking too long, but to blame Pete for that is ridiculous. Brian Schottenheimer is the one that designs the plays and it is him that is not making adjustments as quickly as is needed. We need more route combinations from the same formation. It is funny that so many people here go, "Pete is hindering Wilson." We already know from his press conferences that Pete will say to the O-Coordinator whether he wants run or pass. That is the extent of it. The actual play is up to Schottenheimer. So, what we need is Schottenheimer to start the game with more variations on the formations that we run. Not one of the people that are taking shots at our offense has acknowledged that the defenses we are facing when "Russ takes over" are playing soft because they have a three score lead. Not one.

I find it hilarious that a good thread regarding our defense has once again devolved into the offense debate that rages in a few threads already. In regards to the defensive changes that need to be made is fairly easy. We need a better defensive line coach. I am not ready to give up on Norton, but if we are going to continue with base defense we need someone who can design better stunts and twists to get more pressure from the line. Reed only being healthy for four games definitely impacted the interior pass rush, but the fact is we need an infusion of talent there. It is interesting seeing what happened to Raekwon Davis' production after Reed was drafted by the Seahawks. It may very well mean that he would drop to us in the draft, perhaps day two, and uniting them could have a dramatic affect on our defense. Ford is a decent space eater, but he is not disruptive. Al Woods should not even be considered to get a new contract.

I am not down on Jefferson or Green, but we need to re-sign Clowney or maybe go after our old nemesis Robert Quinn in free agency or even a short term deal for Mario Addison. Neither Ansah or Jackson should be brought back. Looking at DE in the draft is disappointing honestly. It seems that there are only three guys who will be immediate impact players, which the Hawks absolutely need. We all know damn well that Schneider will not trade up to get any of them, but the only guy who might fall down to us that has talent to be impact but has a bit of injury history is Jon Grennard. There are a couple of younger pass rushers that are free agents and the most intriguing is Yannick Ngakoue who Jacksonville alienated with early negotiations. Word is that he will almost certainly be franchise tagged, but if he is not, I think it is time for us to finally jump into day one free agency and pony up the cash.

The back end is a concern, but I think that we have to focus on pressure more than anything else. The quarterback not having three plus seconds to pass will help the corners and safeties more than an influx of talent. We need to bring in competition in the mid rounds of the draft, but I want the early picks to improve the trenches.

hawk45":2kp696pn said:

As much as the slow starts concern me, I'm beginning to feel that Pete isn't capable of bringing the defense back to top 10. Not historically great, just top 10.

We had all our players against the Packers and the defense was $h!t in the first half, and overall this year awful. Certainly Clowney healthy for an entire year changes the picture, but my bigger concern is that Pete isn't showing signs of being able to draft safeties and corners as I thought he would. I used to say "no PC coached defense will be worse than average" but that balloon has popped for me.

Which is a problem, because with a top 10 D we're an SB contender this year even with Pete's offensive philosophy (which I personally don't mind, I just dislike his early game plans and lack of flexibility).

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Clowney was playing hurt, Jefferson broke his foot, Kendricks was on IR, Diggs was coming back from a high ankle sprain and not his usual play making self, Griffin was gutting out a hamstring issue, Woods was on suspension.

Not sure we had "all our players".

That being said I totally am on board with changes on D starting with coaching and moving onto DL. Need some more CB competition for Flowers and Amadi.

First, a good defense will win you championships

Breaking down our defense into three differant groups. Front four, LBers, defensive backs.

First we have to stop the run, the front four. Keep J Clowney and Al Woods and maybe Jefferson. Rebuild the rest.

LBers, At this time resource are not needed here. Or save for a late pick.


Ok, now that we've made a one dimensional by stopping the run. Now we got to have some young guns with larcenous tendencys waiting to feed off the unwise.

Our draft should look like this.

1. DL
2.DB
3. OL
4.DL
5.DB
6.TE

The tree needs a real good shaking. Lets do it.

Chawker":3kgktfna said:

First, a good defense will win you championships
-snip-
LBers, At this time resource are not needed here. Or save for a late pick.
-snip-
The tree needs a real good shaking. Lets do it.

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Have to agree with nearly everything you said, except the LB bit.
We DO need to hit on an awesome speedy LB or two. Bobby has lost half a step, maybe a couple more years of service, KJ wasn't fast to begin with, Kendricks is an unknown... The new guys show promise, Cody Barton, and we'll see about BBK. Pete's D needs FAST LBs. When Bruce Irvin and Darren Smith were here, along with Bobby, our LBs were faster than our RBs and darn near as fast as our WRs.

Yes, there are needs everywhere on this D. If we have a Cornelius Bennett or Lawrence Taylor fall to us in the draft, we better draft the dude. PC/JS, just make the picks count, learn the lessons from past failures.

olyfan63":ggi2iul0 said:

Chawker":ggi2iul0 said:

First, a good defense will win you championships
-snip-
LBers, At this time resource are not needed here. Or save for a late pick.
-snip-
The tree needs a real good shaking. Lets do it.

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Have to agree with nearly everything you said, except the LB bit.
We DO need to hit on an awesome speedy LB or two. Bobby has lost half a step, maybe a couple more years of service, KJ wasn't fast to begin with, Kendricks is an unknown... The new guys show promise, Cody Barton, and we'll see about BBK. Pete's D needs FAST LBs. When Bruce Irvin and Darren Smith were here, along with Bobby, our LBs were faster than our RBs and darn near as fast as our WRs.

Yes, there are needs everywhere on this D. If we have a Cornelius Bennett or Lawrence Taylor fall to us in the draft, we better draft the dude. PC/JS, just make the picks count, learn the lessons from past failures.

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Dante Olson MLB Montana grizzlys enough said! Winner,winner chicken dinner. Boom baby.

I am going to be so glad when the Chiefs win the SuperBowl.

It will put to bed this ridiculously stupid assertion that you have to have an above-average defense or even a great defense to win a SuperBowl.

We didn't win the SB because great defense trumps great offense. We won because our best players were on defense and those players were leagues better than their best players. We had at least 3 HOF players on defense, with guys like Kam and Browner HOF quality. (Browner was the most physical and violent CB I have ever seen).

The defense needs some help but the real issue is the DC and the HC who insists on trusting his defense instead of focusing on where our team has the better players, the offense.

The Chiefs don't have a great defense, for much of the year they looked porous. But they will score 35+ on anyone, as we could/should be doing. Purists don't like it, but it is hard to argue with the results.

The issues on defense are overstated, we have a mediocre defense. With Diggs, we are not terrible - just not great. We do have a terrible DC and a HC holding onto delusions of the importance of great defense that hold us back. (I still don't like our OC but most of the 1st half struggles are likely on Carroll, not whatshisname)

When the Chiefs win, people that cling to needing great defenses as the only pathway to a SB victory will have to find another excuse.

We never recovered from losing CLark. Even with him, we were a mediocre d.

ivotuk":2acaxa3m said:

morgulon1":2acaxa3m said:

yeah I read this earlier today and thought it was a pretty good assesment. The NFL is always changing and a team has to be able to adjust to the situation. Seattle doesnt appear to do this.

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We definitely need an infusion of Defensive Speed and Talent.

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Seattle does this and we go back to the SB

hawk45":35aq4fiv said:

As much as the slow starts concern me, I'm beginning to feel that Pete isn't capable of bringing the defense back to top 10. Not historically great, just top 10.

We had all our players against the Packers and the defense was $h!t in the first half, and overall this year awful. Certainly Clowney healthy for an entire year changes the picture, but my bigger concern is that Pete isn't showing signs of being able to draft safeties and corners as I thought he would. I used to say "no PC coached defense will be worse than average" but that balloon has popped for me.

Which is a problem, because with a top 10 D we're an SB contender this year even with Pete's offensive philosophy (which I personally don't mind, I just dislike his early game plans and lack of flexibility).

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This is where I have been at for a while now. By mid year the defense was statistically worse once again for the 6th consecutive year. The team had more talent this year, than last year as well. Diggs > TT ; Clowney > Clark ; In shape Shaq > out of shape Shaq. 2nd year Flowers > Rookie Flowers. 2nd yr Poona > 1st yr Poona.

2018 Nickel > 2019 Nickel ; 2018 LB > 2019 LB ; 2018 Reed > 2019 Reed, but mostly spot for spot I would go with the 2019 player over the 2018 player. And Diggs is a massive upgrade over, TT, so 2019 wins by default.

But here we are, another season done, and the defense is worse.

Clayton will NEVER really challenge the coaching staff. That is his stock in trade, without access to them he doesn't have a job.

morgulon1":77jct05v said:

yeah I read this earlier today and thought it was a pretty good assesment. The NFL is always changing and a team has to be able to adjust to the situation. Seattle doesnt appear to do this.

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Pete said in the article he's open to scheme changes.

It's why we went out and got Diggs mid season, they saw what they were doing wasn't working.

I'm the first one to say Pete's stubborn in his philosophies, but if we're listing reasons as to why the defense wasn't good, personnel and talent are #1 and #2.

Bad D-line
No edge rushers
Flowers stinks
not enough overall speed
Hill and Thompson are terrible and slow

You can change scheme and tactics all day long, but if you don't have the talent, it doesn't matter what formation and scheme you're in.

Jeezus, Flowers doesn't stink. He was a revelation last year as a rookie and a year later he stinks???.

He definitely regressed but what about our D-Line. Only one team was WORSE. Combine that with Hill and Thompson and you get a secondary that was ASS.

Hill and Thompson should be C U T, immediately..Both have proven themselves, so cut them.

Get players in these spots. Let Blair play, quit pussyfooting around with the experience excuse, let em play. Look at Bartons improvement after he got time. Same with Collier.

We are dependent on a good FS. Diggs is that guy but he's not even 200 pounds, if they want to play single high, a backup capable of playing needs to be had.

Also and more importantly we saw after the Coleman vacancy the value of slot CB. Get these done and of course...GET D-Line Edge. Let Reed walk and replace him cheap and spend the money on EDGE !!!!!!!!!!!

Sgt. Largent":1zxli0yp said:

You can change scheme and tactics all day long, but if you don't have the talent, it doesn't matter what formation and scheme you're in.

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I think it's a combination of the two. The 49ers went from 4-and-12 to a Super Bowl favorite in one single year. How did they do that? They added some pieces but they also revised their schemes to match their players ala Belichick style.

https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nfl/san-f ... 95184.html

The 9ers SUCKED FOR YEARS is how they did it. All of their D-Line were 1st round picks because they STUNK..

We will never get those picks because we don't stink but people here want Pete fired. Can't have it both ways and the salary cap is huge for teams like us and that is why with our cap and draft picks THIS YEAR, they need to nail it and not worry about some stupid scheme change.

If there is any change for scheme it's the offense.

49ers had a BUNCH of 1st rounders on D, along with adding a few pieces. But make mistake about it, they did it thru the draft. But this is about the Hawks.

On D this year the draft isn't the place.

The offense is the focus of this draft. Tons of very good WR's, and more importantly for the Hawks, A LOT of very good OL.

We have a first , 2 seconds, a 3rd, and 2 4ths, a 5th and a 6th.

Many good OL to be had a C, and G (areas of need and F.A.)

This is a pivital year for the Hawks on drafting OL.

Big time. You can't get enough guys on both sides of the lines imo. Especially O Line.

Fade":2yvatm9l said:

hawk45":2yvatm9l said:

As much as the slow starts concern me, I'm beginning to feel that Pete isn't capable of bringing the defense back to top 10. Not historically great, just top 10.

We had all our players against the Packers and the defense was $h!t in the first half, and overall this year awful. Certainly Clowney healthy for an entire year changes the picture, but my bigger concern is that Pete isn't showing signs of being able to draft safeties and corners as I thought he would. I used to say "no PC coached defense will be worse than average" but that balloon has popped for me.

Which is a problem, because with a top 10 D we're an SB contender this year even with Pete's offensive philosophy (which I personally don't mind, I just dislike his early game plans and lack of flexibility).

Click to expand...

This is where I have been at for a while now. By mid year the defense was statistically worse once again for the 6th consecutive year. The team had more talent this year, than last year as well. Diggs > TT ; Clowney > Clark ; In shape Shaq > out of shape Shaq. 2nd year Flowers > Rookie Flowers. 2nd yr Poona > 1st yr Poona.

2018 Nickel > 2019 Nickel ; 2018 LB > 2019 LB ; 2018 Reed > 2019 Reed, but mostly spot for spot I would go with the 2019 player over the 2018 player. And Diggs is a massive upgrade over, TT, so 2019 wins by default.

But here we are, another season done, and the defense is worse.

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I'm at the same place as well. There is no reason the defense shouldn't have been better this year.

"we had all of our players"...Hahaha we had Clowney (playing injured) and no other DE capable of pressure. We had a rookie starting at LB. We had no Al Woods in the middle....We were Not at full strength. The defense was so obviously undermanned and it isn't even an argument.

DomeHawk":nbo3kpch said:

Sgt. Largent":nbo3kpch said:

You can change scheme and tactics all day long, but if you don't have the talent, it doesn't matter what formation and scheme you're in.

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I think it's a combination of the two. The 49ers went from 4-and-12 to a Super Bowl favorite in one single year. How did they do that? They added some pieces but they also revised their schemes to match their players ala Belichick style.

https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nfl/san-f ... 95184.html

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How'd the Niners do it? Lol.

9ERS 2019 DRAFT PICKS
First round (2): DE Nick Bosa, Ohio State
Second round (36): WR Deebo Samuel, South Carolina
Third round (67): WR Jalen Hurd, Baylor
Fourth round (110): P Mitch Wishnowsky, Utah
Fifth round (148): LB Dre Greenlaw, Arkansas
Sixth round (176): TE Kaden Smith, Stanford
Sixth round (183): T Justin Skule, Vanderbilt
Sixth round (198): CB Tim Harris, Virginia


VETERAN ADDITIONS
-- LB Kwon Alexander (UFA: Tampa Bay): 4 years/$53.5 million, $14.25 million guaranteed
-- LB Dee Ford (trade; Kansas City): 5 years/$85 million, $19.75 million guaranteed
-- RB Tevin Coleman (UFA; Atlanta): 2 years/$8.5 million, $5.25 million guaranteed
-- CB Jason Verrett (UFA; L.A. Chargers): 1 year/$3.6 million, $1 million guaranteed
-- LB David Mayo (UFA; Carolina): 2 years/$2.5 million, $1.1 million guaranteed
-- WR Jordan Matthews (UFA; Philadelphia): 1 year/$2 milllion, $300,000 guaranteed
-- OL Ben Garland (UFA; Atlanta); 1 year/$805,000
-- DT Cedric Thornton (reinstated off reserve/retired list)
-- C Wesley Johnson (UFA; Dolphins): 1 year/$805,000
-- LB LaRoy Reynolds (UFA; Eagles): 1 year/ $805,000
-- TE Levine Toilolo (UFA; Lions): 1 year/$805,000


Not a bad off season huh when you can add Bosa, Samuel, Greenlaw and 4-5 impact free agents.........to go with your prior 4-5 years of nothing but 1st and 2nd round picks all over your roster.