Do Not Sell My Personal Information

I like the draft, HATE the FA Signings!

The Essential Online Seattle Football Fan Forum Community. There simply is NO substitute. LANGUAGE: PG-13
I like the draft, HATE the FA Signings!
Wed May 20, 2020 4:13 pm
  • Why have they spent so much money on Free Agents? Did we really need Greg Olsen that badly? And why did they pay Bruce Irvin so much?

    Looking back, they have a tendency to over-commit to some players, and really need to reevaluate their approach to re-signing players and to free agency.


    I'm with Rob Staton on this topic, and he makes some very salient points, doing so much better than I ever could:

    A couple of weeks ago I questioned whether Seattle had used the $53.37m they’ve spent on veterans this year wisely.

    Paying another $4m for Freeman would be another questionable decision — right up there with giving Bruce Irvin a 32% pay increase, bumping Cedric Ogbuehi’s pay from $895,000 to $2.237m, spending $3.259m on Jacob Hollister despite investing $7m in Greg Olsen then drafting two tight ends, using your first round pick on a position where you’re already committing $25m to two players or failing to invest serious resources into your biggest need (D-line) while collecting 18 offensive linemen.

    More importantly though, $4m is a significant chunk of cash on a player who looks spent. Would he seriously contribute much at all — other than providing name recognition? If Carson got hurt, is Devonta Freeman going to come to the rescue?

    And while many folks like to ridicule the idea of spending a high pick on a running back — it’s worth noting the four-year value teams are getting by tapping into a talented group in the 2020 draft class.

    Clyde Edwards-Helaire’s cap hit this year will likely be around $1.9m. In the final year of his rookie deal his cap hit will be about $3.2m — less than the Seahawks are reportedly willing to commit to Freeman.


    http://seahawksdraftblog.com/
    ivotuk
    * NET Staff Alumni *
     
    Posts: 20059
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:29 pm
    Location: North Pole, Alaska


  • at no point have ever been a Bruce Irvin fan, dude was consistently unable to seal the edge when he was young. now he's lost a step. He's a liability against the run.
    Chukarhawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2604
    Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:14 pm


  • Hmmm...he got 8.5 sacks last year on a crap defense and he's cooked?....Dude, our best sack numbers were from the departed Jefferson who only had 4,

    The Irvin signing was cheap compared to other options. If you are going to question something how about the 11 OL men they signed. Maybe only Finny is a keeper.
    Largent80
    NET Ring Of Honor
     
    Posts: 36394
    Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:38 pm
    Location: The Tex-ASS


  • I’m kind of tired of our free agent OL philosophy of signing a bunch of players who were disappointments for their last team. Did we learn nothing from Luke Joeckel, J’Marcus Webb, etc.? Three of our four FAs fit that description this year. I wish we had tried quality over quantity.
    Rat
    * NET Cynic *
     
    Posts: 5881
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:42 pm
    Location: Grand Rapids, MI


  • It's incredible to me, especially with a DL that looks like well fed people lining up at a smorgasboard.
    Largent80
    NET Ring Of Honor
     
    Posts: 36394
    Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:38 pm
    Location: The Tex-ASS


  • Would you feel better if Clowney and Griffen had already signed somewhere else? I'm not a happy with the Devonta Freeman offer, but I understand why they're kicking the tires. I suspect Lynch will resign closer to the end of training camp.

    Call me crazy, but I think Greg Olson will set the tone in the TE room, and I think he'll have a big overall impact (positive) on the team. Luke Willson, true team guy, may be the odd man out.

    I want to see a pass rushing 3-tech DT added, but there's no real rush right now. Guys are often available after the last cutdown before the season kicks off. Pete makes decent use of veteran DL cast offs. Pete's not a traditional thinker, and I think this year's team is loaded with "potential". Hopefully, it translates to the field.
    nwHawk
    Silver Supporter
    Silver Supporter
     
    Posts: 1355
    Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:14 pm


  • Breno Giacomini was a low level cast off, but added a ring. I think OL guys either are studs come out of college, or they need time for the lights to turn on, the game to slow down and for their man strength to develop.

    I forgot to add, please cut Nick Bellore this year. Keep an extra TE / H-Back instead.
    nwHawk
    Silver Supporter
    Silver Supporter
     
    Posts: 1355
    Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:14 pm


  • Pretty much.

    These UFA signings remind me of the J'Marcus Webb, Eddy Lacey, Luke Joeckel type of signings a few years ago. Over spending for names, and overpaying JAGs.

    $54M in cap space LMAO. Could've just signed Clowney, Everson Griffin, Jack Conklin, Finny, and called it good.

    With Finney being more of a cap savings move to replace Britt.

    The Seahawks are overspending at LBer to the detriment of their D-Line. And overspending at TE to the detriment of their O-Line.

    The Seahawks will eventually cut some of their RFA's to clear out some more cap space, but that will be more of a clear room for the future, than to get more cap space to sign impact players now.

    Russell Wilson can get this team to the playoffs, but if they are to do anything when they get there they need a lot of 1st & 2nd year players to take huge leaps forward.
    Fade
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2692
    Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:26 am
    Location: Truth Ray


  • I just don't really see this the same way as of May. Sure it could turn out poorly but is that the most likely outcome? I think history has shown over and over again that the real way to win in NFL free agency is not to overpay for the flashiest names but instead to get solid players at a decent value.

    TE was an enormous hole last year after we lost Dissly and this is a team that wants to use 12 personnel a lot. I disagree that we are overspending here as only Olsen has much in the way of guaranteed dollars and the total TE group is probably going to end up at a very reasonable $10m.

    OL spending was mostly limited to Shell as a replacement for Ifedi, Finney as a replacement for Britt, and Ogbuehi as a replacement for Fant. The memes about having 18 OL are silly as only five of our OL have large enough guarantees to suggest they will make the team, and that is counting Haynes and Lewis with contracts under 1m.

    Meanwhile, RB does still look a bit weak if Penny is going to be missing serious time and so I'm not surprised we're talking to potential candidates.

    On defense we did make a splash in the secondary trading for Dunbar. Our other positions were mainly addressed in the draft and UDFA thus far as of May, but everybody realizes that the Hawks tend to add veterans to the defense later on in the off-season.

    Posters should realize that we have been bolstering the DE with early draft picks for three years in a row now and ultimately those guys are going to be busts which will be a big problem or they will develop and contribute. For those who are really anchored to the sack number and worried about it, consider that we did make a very large splash last off-season on a big name in Clowney and we still had poor sack numbers. Adding five cheap DEs this year in Irvin, Mayowa, Jackson, Taylor and Robinson could work out better to improve the overall rotation, and the team could still have further plans there.
    AgentDib
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4153
    Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:08 pm
    Location: Seattle


  • Fade wrote:Pretty much.

    These UFA signings remind me of the J'Marcus Webb, Eddy Lacey, Luke Joeckel type of signings a few years ago. Over spending for names, and overpaying JAGs.

    $54M in cap space LMAO. Could've just signed Clowney, Everson Griffin, Jack Conklin, Finny, and called it good.

    With Finney being more of a cap savings move to replace Britt.

    The Seahawks are overspending at LBer to the detriment of their D-Line. And overspending at TE to the detriment of their O-Line.

    The Seahawks will eventually cut some of their RFA's to clear out some more cap space, but that will be more of a clear room for the future, than to get more cap space to sign impact players now.

    Russell Wilson can get this team to the playoffs, but if they are to do anything when they get there they need a lot of 1st & 2nd year players to take huge leaps forward.

    While I heartily disagree with some of your points, I really appreciate the reality check nature, kind of a cold-slap-in-the-face, and "Thanks, I needed that!" (Wasn't that an old commercial?)

    Eddy Can't Lace 'em, and Luke Joke, now those were two waste-of-money signings. I don't even remember the Webb character, hope we didn't give him much.

    I think Pete and John are building the team for JAG DYJ depth. A lot of the time that's what wins games, our JAGs making key plays by Doing Their Job/DYJ. Tre Flowers making a tackle on 3rd down. Jordan Simmons plugging in for an injured DJ Fluker and the league-leading run game *improves*. John Ursua making a key catch. Poona Ford stuffing a running play.

    For JAG DYJ guys, Bruce Irvin and Benson Mayowa are nice pickups, and our OL additions are JAGs with some upside. Carlos Hyde runs hard and bruising like Chris Carson. Dunbar, assuming he plays, great pickup. We had a really beat up OL last year, hell, every year. I think we'll have enough OL depth to play through injuries and not have a huge dropoff. We have our outside tackle position capably manned even after losing George Fant. Our TE position will be in good shape one way or another.

    Basically, I think our FA JAG DYJ guys will play up to or over their contracts, we'll have some really good contributions from a couple-three rookies, and some nice Redshirt Revelation players who outplay their rookie contracts. Ultimately, it's the teams with numerous players outplaying their contracts that typically win in December and make noise in the playoffs. We won't have a lot of salary dead money; most of our payroll will be contributing on the field.
    olyfan63
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3024
    Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:03 am


  • Chukarhawk wrote:at no point have ever been a Bruce Irvin fan, dude was consistently unable to seal the edge when he was young. now he's lost a step. He's a liability against the run.


    He did suck at setting the edge his first two years. After that, I thought he seemed to improve to where he was reasonably capable. Then he left.
    olyfan63
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3024
    Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:03 am


  • Looks like they chose Mayowa and Irvin over Everson Griffen.

    Olsen (35) $7M
    Irvin (33) 6M
    Hyde (30) 4M
    Mayowa (29) 4M

    Good additions, but seem overpaid and would've rather spent the money elsewhere.

    Unless Ifedi just wanted out of Seattle, not sure why they wouldn't re-sign him for what he got from the Bears instead of giving Shell all that money.
    massari
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1559
    Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:58 am


  • Chukarhawk wrote:at no point have ever been a Bruce Irvin fan, dude was consistently unable to seal the edge when he was young. now he's lost a step. He's a liability against the run.


    He should have never been setting the edge. Dude had 8 sacks as a rookie on mostly 3rd down rotations. He should have never been a LB or in pass coverage. He was meant to rush the QB. They played it all wrong.
    jamescasey1124
    NET Bench Warmer
     
    Posts: 22
    Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 12:36 am


  • jamescasey1124 wrote:
    Chukarhawk wrote:at no point have ever been a Bruce Irvin fan, dude was consistently unable to seal the edge when he was young. now he's lost a step. He's a liability against the run.


    He should have never been setting the edge. Dude had 8 sacks as a rookie on mostly 3rd down rotations. He should have never been a LB or in pass coverage. He was meant to rush the QB. They played it all wrong.



    Half of the 8 sacks his rookie year were in one game. I’ve always thought he was overrated.
    oldhawkfan
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2346
    Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:06 pm
    Location: Spokane


  • massari wrote:Looks like they chose Mayowa and Irvin over Everson Griffen.

    Olsen (35) $7M
    Irvin (33) 6M
    Hyde (30) 4M
    Mayowa (29) 4M

    Good additions, but seem overpaid and would've rather spent the money elsewhere.

    Unless Ifedi just wanted out of Seattle, not sure why they wouldn't re-sign him for what he got from the Bears instead of giving Shell all that money.


    I'm good with Irvin and Mayowa as a pair over Everson Griffin. Griffin is a bit of a headcase, and trades with the Vikings for headcases haven't been huge wins in the past. Harvin? We don't really know which Griffin we'd get. With Irvin and Mayowa, the likelihood of getting the production we paid for is better.

    I'm still hoping the Hawks find a way to bring back Clowney. Not sure how they'll work the cap. For me, Clowney over Griffin all day, every day.
    olyfan63
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3024
    Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:03 am


  • olyfan63 wrote:
    Fade wrote:Pretty much.

    These UFA signings remind me of the J'Marcus Webb, Eddy Lacey, Luke Joeckel type of signings a few years ago. Over spending for names, and overpaying JAGs.

    $54M in cap space LMAO. Could've just signed Clowney, Everson Griffin, Jack Conklin, Finny, and called it good.

    With Finney being more of a cap savings move to replace Britt.

    The Seahawks are overspending at LBer to the detriment of their D-Line. And overspending at TE to the detriment of their O-Line.

    The Seahawks will eventually cut some of their RFA's to clear out some more cap space, but that will be more of a clear room for the future, than to get more cap space to sign impact players now.

    Russell Wilson can get this team to the playoffs, but if they are to do anything when they get there they need a lot of 1st & 2nd year players to take huge leaps forward.

    While I heartily disagree with some of your points, I really appreciate the reality check nature, kind of a cold-slap-in-the-face, and "Thanks, I needed that!" (Wasn't that an old commercial?)

    Eddy Can't Lace 'em, and Luke Joke, now those were two waste-of-money signings. I don't even remember the Webb character, hope we didn't give him much.

    I think Pete and John are building the team for JAG DYJ depth. A lot of the time that's what wins games, our JAGs making key plays by Doing Their Job/DYJ. Tre Flowers making a tackle on 3rd down. Jordan Simmons plugging in for an injured DJ Fluker and the league-leading run game *improves*. John Ursua making a key catch. Poona Ford stuffing a running play.

    For JAG DYJ guys, Bruce Irvin and Benson Mayowa are nice pickups, and our OL additions are JAGs with some upside. Carlos Hyde runs hard and bruising like Chris Carson. Dunbar, assuming he plays, great pickup. We had a really beat up OL last year, hell, every year. I think we'll have enough OL depth to play through injuries and not have a huge dropoff. We have our outside tackle position capably manned even after losing George Fant. Our TE position will be in good shape one way or another.

    Basically, I think our FA JAG DYJ guys will play up to or over their contracts, we'll have some really good contributions from a couple-three rookies, and some nice Redshirt Revelation players who outplay their rookie contracts. Ultimately, it's the teams with numerous players outplaying their contracts that typically win in December and make noise in the playoffs. We won't have a lot of salary dead money; most of our payroll will be contributing on the field.


    Quality over quantity. Because if teams are doing it right, they build their depth through the draft. Instead Seattle signed a bunch of JAGs that will get in the way of the their young depth developing properly. I've seen it for 5 seasons now.

    Smart teams sign a couple of depth veterans to round out their roster. Seattle is building their team around short term stopgaps. They're building their team as if it is already superstar laden. It is insane.

    https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/01/26/russell-wilson-is-looking-for-a-few-more-superstars-to-help-the-seahawks-take-the-next-step/
    “I think we need a couple more [players],” Wilson told ESPN, via Bob Condotta of the Seattle Times. “I think we need a couple more. [Defensive end] Jadeveon [Clowney] is a big-time guy that we would love to get back on our football team. He was so good in the locker room. He brought so many just havoc plays to the field. Hopefully, we can get a few other players there on the defense. Then also on offense, we have a great offense, but I think we can always add more pieces. I think that’s going to be the part that’s going to be great with [General Manager] John Schneider and [coach] Pete [Carroll], as well, in terms of this offseason’s free agency. Free agency is very, very key to getting those superstars on your team and try to get great players that can fill the space.”

    It’s a bold statement from Wilson, who rarely ventures into any territory that remotely could be regarded as controversial.


    Seattle needed "Superstars" as Wilson put it during the offseason, guys you can build around for 3-5 seasons. They have plenty of fill in guys already. They needed to add impact to the roster and had $70M+ in cap space to do just that.

    Now we cross our fingers and hope a bunch of young players come out of know where, because the veteran signings were a huge waste of money, due to them being a bunch of stopgaps that will have to be plugged again next off-season with a shrinking cap. DUMB.
    Fade
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2692
    Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:26 am
    Location: Truth Ray


  • Half of the 8 sacks his rookie year were in one game. I’ve always thought he was overrated.[/quote]

    Now go back on game pass and watch every snap he played opposite of where he should be 2013...he only rushed on third downs. Too many lb plays. I get it. He was athletic as hell and they put him out in space, but overrated is strong when you play a position mostly based on the defense and not personal skill sets. If he played line solely he would have double the numbers just in snaps alone.

    He is a good signing. Guranteed he gets 5 sacks. Which is what they will pay him to do. Him and benson.
    jamescasey1124
    NET Bench Warmer
     
    Posts: 22
    Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 12:36 am


  • My bad I mean Irvin 2012 when he was a rookie.
    jamescasey1124
    NET Bench Warmer
     
    Posts: 22
    Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 12:36 am


  • With the Hyde signing the Seahawks have now spent $60M in cap space on stop gap veterans! LMAO.

    Seattle needs to have a lot of young guys show their worth, and develop. Too bad they will be blocked by stop gaps to the tune of $60M and counting in 2020.

    Seattle's 2020 plan reminds me of those early Cleveland Cavalier teams with LeBron James. A superstar surrounded by a bunch of veteran stop gaps. Ultimately you can get to the playoffs based on that one player's greatness, but you're not going to come close to winning a championship.

    This is a 6-10 team with an average starting QB. One of the worst teams in the league with a below avg. QB.

    Wilson will be dragging dead bodies over the finish line once again, and get them to 10-6, or thereabouts.

    Fast forward to '21 and the cupboards are going to be bare. Unless A LOT of young guys, pop! And I mean a lot, an inordinate amount, kind of a lot!
    Fade
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2692
    Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:26 am
    Location: Truth Ray


  • They improved depth all the way across the board and after last years injuries that is positive, The DL is in a shambles, with them depending on June July and August to try and sort it out. About as far from ideal as possible.
    Largent80
    NET Ring Of Honor
     
    Posts: 36394
    Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:38 pm
    Location: The Tex-ASS



  • Fade wrote:The rest of the NFC west is breathing a sigh of relief, and celebrating Seattle's over spending for JAGs.

    https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/49ers-could-benefit-rival-seahawks-questionable-offseason-moves?fbclid=IwAR2IUDsyzy9Htdazbyll6NtoDAWYhbNLpRzuZhjf-AO7_s5IwBY9wdA4zhE

    "Most of us aren't in charge of running NFL teams, but even so, one could reasonably question how the Seattle Seahawks have spent their money this offseason. The 49ers' chief rivals in the NFC West entered the offseason ranking among the top 10 teams in the league in available cap space, and frankly, what they have to show for it leaves plenty to be desired."

    Image

    Unbelievable.


    The 49er fan base is clearly the targeted audience for that linked article .... not so much the rest of the NFL. I would think it woulc reassure many 49er fans and feed positive 49er expectations. Team articles are typically slanted to reassure and feed their targeted audience.
    Jville
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 9706
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:49 pm


  • Let them question, we needed depth all over and have some, we rotate players a lot as well, I am not saying championship but I will say however this plays out Seattle has a way of making Goulash from a variety of ingredients taste great.
    chris98251
    .NET Hijacker
     
    Posts: 31031
    Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:52 pm
    Location: Renton Wa.


  • Where did we get better?
    Provided Dunbar thing blows over, our secondary is much improved.
    Running back is better with Carson, Hyde, Homer and Dallas. Penny comes back midseason as one of the main guys gets hurt. All good.
    TE is a really strong group with exciting rookies, solid veteran in Olsen, hopefully a healthy Dissly, and Hollister just in case.

    Where are we about the same?
    WR group has added Dorsett and lost Brown/Gordon but otherwise pretty similar. If DK takes a step up into Terrell Owens type numbers, then we might be better.
    OL lost ifedi, Britt and Fant. Three JAGs we replaced with about 5 JAG's. Mediocre OL play will once again rule the day.
    Linebacking crew got an exciting rookie and 2 second year guys to replace Kendricks so it's probably a wash but could be an improvement depending on how players develop. That being said Bobby and KJ are another year past their primes so it's probably a wash.
    QB is the same guy. One of the best. hard to get better. Backup still needs to prove himself on the coin flips.

    Where we got worse:
    DL has depth but no talent on the EDGE and talent but no depth in the middle. Last year the opposite was true. Pretty sure we could have gone with a lot fewer JAG depth signings and actually signed a good pass rusher. Here's hoping Irvin and Mayowa have improved since they last were rushing QB's for us.
    Mad Dog
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1780
    Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:12 am


  • Jville wrote:The 49er fan base is clearly the targeted audience for that linked article .... not so much the rest of the NFL. I would think it would reassure many 49er fans and feed positive 49er expectations. Team articles are typically slanted to reassure and feed their targeted audience.

    So true and judging anything by cap numbers is going to be misleading. Dante Fowler is being paid $45M over 3 years. His $6.66M cap number for this year doesn't mean he's a $6.66M player. The Seahawks have signed players to short-term deals so there's less opportunity to delay cap money.
    flv
    NET Practice Squad
     
    Posts: 50
    Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:04 pm
    Location: Bournemouth, UK


  • 2-4 in the West.
    Elemas
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 382
    Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:02 pm


  • How many big name FAs really live up to expectations? Very few. If you look back a year from now at those eight comparative "deals" posted in the SF article then six of them will look like mistakes.

    Of course our guys could be mistakes too, but the error some here are making is thinking that getting a bigger name makes them a safer bet somehow. Which is more likely; that the Panthers get $10m/year production from Robby Anderson, or that the Hawks get $0.9m/year production out of Phillip Dorsett?

    Just look at the Seahawks own history of bringing in big names. That's almost never worked out very well, whereas we have been very successful at times getting production from cheaper veterans.
    AgentDib
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4153
    Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:08 pm
    Location: Seattle


  • Care to bet a pint on that Elemas?
    SoulfishHawk
    NET Pro Bowler
     
    Posts: 15359
    Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:59 am
    Location: Sammamish, WA




It is currently Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:53 am

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ SEATTLE SEAHAWKS FOOTBALL ]




Information
  • Who is online