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EverydayImRusselin

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Did anybody rewatch the OL to see why they were destroying the Giants DL? I know Unger was back and Bailey was in at LG so that's different than the last few weeks. I just noticed yesterday that there were tons of runs that seemed like 5-10 yds before contact.
 

bigskydoc

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I feel like the voice of one crying in the wilderness when I keep saying that this o-line is gelling into something special AS A UNIT, and most of us are going to be pretty happy with it by the end of the year (barring significant injury). Currently we are sitting at 12th in run protection and 17th in pass protection despite the last couple of weeks.

We had a setback with injuries the last couple of weeks, and o-line play was inconsistent at best. When this line is healthy, they are a friggin road grader running unit who are blasting the line to give our backs space to get moving downfield.

Their identity is the run, but they are improving their pass pro week by week. I don't think they will ever be a top five pass pro line (might just break top ten), but they will give RW just enough to be successful once he gets out of his funk.

Next week, I expect to see a repeat of yesterday's performance when we go up against the worst run defensive line in the league. With Tuku cleaning up the trash, Lynch should see a lot of second level contact against an impressive linebacker corps. KC will be ready for the RW redirect run with one of their pro-bowler linebackers doing the spying, so we will have to figure out another way to get his happy feet working FOR us in this game. I doubt we will be doing much about addressing his pass issues against a stellar pass defense team featuring the top defensive line against the pass.


*all rankings based on Football Outsiders Stats*

-bsd
 

DJrmb

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It's still the tale of two lines though IMHO...

This team has been getting better and better at run blocking and I agree is becoming elite as a run blocking unit as they start to gel.

However

They are so poor at pass blocking they've stunted Wilson's growth this year. It's not all on them, and Russell needs to get better and not play so shell shocked at times when they actually do give him time in the pocket, but that's a tough thing to do when you're used to getting pounded play after play, and not even being able to get through your drop without a defender in your face.

With that said, improved run blocking as a unit usually comes first with pass blocking following. The biggest thing to continue the gelling and improvement (especially in pass protection) is consistency. These guys need to stay on the field and play together. They can't improve and learn one another so well they can simply instinctively react knowing where one another will be by sitting on the sidelines. If this line can get some consistent playing time together as a unit they have plenty of talent to be a good line firmly in the upper half of the league.
 

scutterhawk

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DJrmb":1ytewuk0 said:
It's still the tale of two lines though IMHO...

This team has been getting better and better at run blocking and I agree is becoming elite as a run blocking unit as they start to gel.

However

They are so poor at pass blocking they've stunted Wilson's growth this year. It's not all on them, and Russell needs to get better and not play so shell shocked at times when they actually do give him time in the pocket, but that's a tough thing to do when you're used to getting pounded play after play, and not even being able to get through your drop without a defender in your face.

With that said, improved run blocking as a unit usually comes first with pass blocking following. The biggest thing to continue the gelling and improvement (especially in pass protection) is consistency. These guys need to stay on the field and play together. They can't improve and learn one another so well they can simply instinctively react knowing where one another will be by sitting on the sidelines. If this line can get some consistent playing time together as a unit they have plenty of talent to be a good line firmly in the upper half of the league.
Stunted Wilson's growth is putting it mild, as we all are saying that there's something wrong with Wilsons accuracy, and it seems like he's having a problem with seeing his open receivers.
Ahem.....If you think about how poorly the Running Game is without Unger and in there, but fail to make the connection to Russell Wilson's miscommunication mishaps without Unger's help.
Wilson has to read the Defensive formations, while simultaneously having to take into account for the inept play by an inconsistent Offensive Line, and I don't care who is up behind Center, you are NOT going to come away unscathed.
Drawing a correlation with what Tom Cable had to say a couple games back, about having the toughest job he's ever had, at Coaching a bunch of guys that are still green, turned up the lights for me.
Everybody is saying that Peyton Manning get's rid of the ball so fast, that it isn't a problem....SB XLVIII says otherwise, and too, who does Wilson throw to real fast, when the Defenses mows over his O-Line, and comes straight up into his face?,,,, Percy? Walters? Well, we all saw how that worked out eh?
A lot of the crap that's being leveled against Wilson, is NOT his fault, PERIOD
 

firebee

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Well... We got Unger back, so we have an experienced veteran calling the shots on the blocking assignments. That makes a huge difference. 2nd... Alvin Bailey is better than Carp. Yes... He still had a few whiffs, but his footwork is better than Carp's, he's quicker than Carp and he makes 2nd blocks when run blocking. He's not a dominating first-step one block smasher like Carp is, but his footwork and quickness is better. He also plays far more disciplined than Carp does and doesn't draw flags that put us in ridiculous situations. I'm really liking Alvin Bailey at LG. When Carp is healthy, I think he'd make a great 3rd and inches guy on the interior or a goalline guy, but I'd prefer to see us keep rolling with Bailey at LG on most downs. He just plays a more well-rounded game.

I also wouldn't totally undermine the Giants defensive line. Pierre Paul, Hankins and Kiwanuka aren't slouches. They did overpursue the plays quite frequently though and poor containment by the Giants on the outside also lended us a lot of rushing yards with the option.
 

peppersjap

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I did just re-watch the game and credit needs to be given. The Giants D line might be in a bad place but they were being blown up by our offensive line. I saw so many great blocks by Unger, Okung and Britt that opened up some huge holes but right now our best offensive lineman is Sweezy. He is a complete animal and is definitely not injury prone. I don't want to short change Alvin Bailey, he also had a very good game. All I want to see in next years draft is a tall and talented beast of a WR and then a bunch of offensive linemen for depth. I would also be very happy with a drat that got us Shelton from the UW, I'm usually not a homer but that guy is something special.
 

RiverDog

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peachesenregalia":2b5aga9s said:
It's because the Giants D is shite.

This.

The Giants D is awful, especially against the run. They're giving up an AVERAGE of 400 yards per game and sport the worst run defense in the league. They were playing on a short week after having traveled cross country and are at this point, a runaway train heading for a washed out bridge and will soon be firing a coach that was a legitimate HOF candidate just a couple years ago.

This Sunday will be a better yardstick from which to measure how far our OL has progressed. Kansas City has a top 10 defense and is #2 in points allowed. We'll be on the road, early start, colder than a witches' tit in a hostile atmosphere, and against a team that is right in the mix for best record in their conference. Heck, I can only remember winning a couple of games in Arrowhead in the entire history of our franchise. This will be our biggest challenge to this point of the season.
 

olyfan63

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firebee":1tj3vlbt said:
...
2nd... Alvin Bailey is better than Carp. Yes... He still had a few whiffs, but his footwork is better than Carp's, he's quicker than Carp and he makes 2nd blocks when run blocking. He's not a dominating first-step one block smasher like Carp is, but his footwork and quickness is better. He also plays far more disciplined than Carp does and doesn't draw flags that put us in ridiculous situations. I'm really liking Alvin Bailey at LG. When Carp is healthy, I think he'd make a great 3rd and inches guy on the interior or a goalline guy, but I'd prefer to see us keep rolling with Bailey at LG on most downs. He just plays a more well-rounded game.

I also wouldn't totally undermine the Giants defensive line. Pierre Paul, Hankins and Kiwanuka aren't slouches. They did overpursue the plays quite frequently though and poor containment by the Giants on the outside also lended us a lot of rushing yards with the option.

This. I don't think it's a fluke that a 350 yard game came with Alvin Bailey in the lineup, instead of Carp.
I don't think Carp "gets paid" at the end of the season.

Not saying Unger, Sweezy, Okung (and at times Britt) weren't every bit as awesome as everyone above mentioned. Only that Bailey did his part.
 

Anthony!

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bigskydoc":1vfx56je said:
I feel like the voice of one crying in the wilderness when I keep saying that this o-line is gelling into something special AS A UNIT, and most of us are going to be pretty happy with it by the end of the year (barring significant injury). Currently we are sitting at 12th in run protection and 17th in pass protection despite the last couple of weeks.

We had a setback with injuries the last couple of weeks, and o-line play was inconsistent at best. When this line is healthy, they are a friggin road grader running unit who are blasting the line to give our backs space to get moving downfield.

Their identity is the run, but they are improving their pass pro week by week. I don't think they will ever be a top five pass pro line (might just break top ten), but they will give RW just enough to be successful once he gets out of his funk.

Next week, I expect to see a repeat of yesterday's performance when we go up against the worst run defensive line in the league. With Tuku cleaning up the trash, Lynch should see a lot of second level contact against an impressive linebacker corps. KC will be ready for the RW redirect run with one of their pro-bowler linebackers doing the spying, so we will have to figure out another way to get his happy feet working FOR us in this game. I doubt we will be doing much about addressing his pass issues against a stellar pass defense team featuring the top defensive line against the pass.


*all rankings based on Football Outsiders Stats*

-bsd


ahh we went down to 22nd in pass blocking which is not good
 

Anthony!

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scutterhawk":2flu5x2q said:
DJrmb":2flu5x2q said:
It's still the tale of two lines though IMHO...

This team has been getting better and better at run blocking and I agree is becoming elite as a run blocking unit as they start to gel.

However

They are so poor at pass blocking they've stunted Wilson's growth this year. It's not all on them, and Russell needs to get better and not play so shell shocked at times when they actually do give him time in the pocket, but that's a tough thing to do when you're used to getting pounded play after play, and not even being able to get through your drop without a defender in your face.

With that said, improved run blocking as a unit usually comes first with pass blocking following. The biggest thing to continue the gelling and improvement (especially in pass protection) is consistency. These guys need to stay on the field and play together. They can't improve and learn one another so well they can simply instinctively react knowing where one another will be by sitting on the sidelines. If this line can get some consistent playing time together as a unit they have plenty of talent to be a good line firmly in the upper half of the league.
Stunted Wilson's growth is putting it mild, as we all are saying that there's something wrong with Wilsons accuracy, and it seems like he's having a problem with seeing his open receivers.
Ahem.....If you think about how poorly the Running Game is without Unger and in there, but fail to make the connection to Russell Wilson's miscommunication mishaps without Unger's help.
Wilson has to read the Defensive formations, while simultaneously having to take into account for the inept play by an inconsistent Offensive Line, and I don't care who is up behind Center, you are NOT going to come away unscathed.
Drawing a correlation with what Tom Cable had to say a couple games back, about having the toughest job he's ever had, at Coaching a bunch of guys that are still green, turned up the lights for me.
Everybody is saying that Peyton Manning get's rid of the ball so fast, that it isn't a problem....SB XLVIII says otherwise, and too, who does Wilson throw to real fast, when the Defenses mows over his O-Line, and comes straight up into his face?,,,, Percy? Walters? Well, we all saw how that worked out eh?
A lot of the crap that's being leveled against Wilson, is NOT his fault, PERIOD

great post spot on.
 

jake206

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Everyone seems to be forgetting how long it took to gell as offensive line the past 2 years. Always, it started from ground zero and took almost better part of the season before things started getting on a roll. Historically, Tom's O-lines take a long time to get into a groove. Typically when it was when coaching staff was focused in on the running game that things got back to normal. Look at the past two seasons, we always had 1-2 games where the running game was just so dominant that it had subsequent repercussions in the next several games.
 

olyfan63

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scutterhawk":3nkqbipt said:
Stunted Wilson's growth is putting it mild, as we all are saying that there's something wrong with Wilsons accuracy, and it seems like he's having a problem with seeing his open receivers.
Ahem.....If you think about how poorly the Running Game is without Unger and in there, but fail to make the connection to Russell Wilson's miscommunication mishaps without Unger's help.
Wilson has to read the Defensive formations, while simultaneously having to take into account for the inept play by an inconsistent Offensive Line, and I don't care who is up behind Center, you are NOT going to come away unscathed.
Drawing a correlation with what Tom Cable had to say a couple games back, about having the toughest job he's ever had, at Coaching a bunch of guys that are still green, turned up the lights for me.
Everybody is saying that Peyton Manning get's rid of the ball so fast, that it isn't a problem....SB XLVIII says otherwise, and too, who does Wilson throw to real fast, when the Defenses mows over his O-Line, and comes straight up into his face?,,,, Percy? Walters? Well, we all saw how that worked out eh?
A lot of the crap that's being leveled against Wilson, is NOT his fault, PERIOD

Wilson has had weird accuracy problems since after the Rams game.
I suspect there is a physical component (injury) we aren't being told about. We saw this at the end of last season and IIRC, we found out much later that Wilson did have a banged up shoulder he was trying to protect.
Whether it's something like a cracked rib, wrist injury, or whatever, it affects his accuracy but not really his velocity. I keep thinking back to the wide open TD flip to an open TE (Helfet) in the Carolina game, where Russ couldn't get the ball out of his hand. Was that due to an injury, where his arm simply didn't obey his mind's commands? The game-winning drive he led vs Carolina was primarily with his running.

Further, Russell *knows* his accuracy isn't up to his usual standard due to injuries affecting his throwing mechanics, he's going to be very reluctant to throw to windows that aren't wide open. And Bevell is going to try to protect him by playcalls that don't ask him to make certain throws that are likely to either tweak the injury further, or where Russell is likely to be so inaccurate as to risk a turnover. And Pete and Cable and Bevell are going to design game plans that feature the run even more heavily than usual, including Russell running, basically taking a big chunk of the passing playbook off the table. But, they don't want to tip off the opponent that Russell can't make all his usual throws, and allow the defense to "cheat", so they have to show just enough in the passing game to keep the defense honest. The risk being, when Russell throws it, it won't always have his usual reliable accuracy.

I'm not saying all the other stuff isn't a factor. I am saying that he has only had this type of accuracy problem before (late last season) when he was secretly nursing an injury. Think about his two picks vs. the Giants... despite all the other issues, OL, new receivers, etc., on both, his read to throw it was fine, and both were passes he normally completes. On the first pick, he knew exactly where he wanted to put it, to P-Rich's outside, away from the defender. Russell's body didn't cooperate, and it was a "ball", not a "steee-riike", and got picked. Same thing on the 2nd pick, Russell made the proper read, found single coverage deep, knew where he wanted to deliver it, to the outside shoulder, but his arm disobeyed, and instead he left a hanging curveball over the heart of the plate, and it got picked. Solely physical, mechanical throwing issues, not really related to OL, receivers, or any mental confusion. Toss in that missed easy TD pass against Carolina, where he couldn't get the ball out... I say the primary issue is Russell is nicked up in a way that affects his throwing mechanics and accuracy. So either it happened late in the Rams game, or early in the Carolina game.

I am proposing "Russell is playing through an injury that affects his throwing accuracy" as a hypothesis, not stating it as "fact". However, to me, it seems like this fits the data and more completely explains what we've seen since Carolina (physical throwing inaccuracy) than any explanation that omits this factor.
 

scutterhawk

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olyfan63":3ihbhdeq said:
scutterhawk":3ihbhdeq said:
Stunted Wilson's growth is putting it mild, as we all are saying that there's something wrong with Wilsons accuracy, and it seems like he's having a problem with seeing his open receivers.
Ahem.....If you think about how poorly the Running Game is without Unger and in there, but fail to make the connection to Russell Wilson's miscommunication mishaps without Unger's help.
Wilson has to read the Defensive formations, while simultaneously having to take into account for the inept play by an inconsistent Offensive Line, and I don't care who is up behind Center, you are NOT going to come away unscathed.
Drawing a correlation with what Tom Cable had to say a couple games back, about having the toughest job he's ever had, at Coaching a bunch of guys that are still green, turned up the lights for me.
Everybody is saying that Peyton Manning get's rid of the ball so fast, that it isn't a problem....SB XLVIII says otherwise, and too, who does Wilson throw to real fast, when the Defenses mows over his O-Line, and comes straight up into his face?,,,, Percy? Walters? Well, we all saw how that worked out eh?
A lot of the crap that's being leveled against Wilson, is NOT his fault, PERIOD

Wilson has had weird accuracy problems since after the Rams game.
I suspect there is a physical component (injury) we aren't being told about. We saw this at the end of last season and IIRC, we found out much later that Wilson did have a banged up shoulder he was trying to protect.
Whether it's something like a cracked rib, wrist injury, or whatever, it affects his accuracy but not really his velocity. I keep thinking back to the wide open TD flip to an open TE (Helfet) in the Carolina game, where Russ couldn't get the ball out of his hand. Was that due to an injury, where his arm simply didn't obey his mind's commands? The game-winning drive he led vs Carolina was primarily with his running.

Further, Russell *knows* his accuracy isn't up to his usual standard due to injuries affecting his throwing mechanics, he's going to be very reluctant to throw to windows that aren't wide open. And Bevell is going to try to protect him by playcalls that don't ask him to make certain throws that are likely to either tweak the injury further, or where Russell is likely to be so inaccurate as to risk a turnover. And Pete and Cable and Bevell are going to design game plans that feature the run even more heavily than usual, including Russell running, basically taking a big chunk of the passing playbook off the table. But, they don't want to tip off the opponent that Russell can't make all his usual throws, and allow the defense to "cheat", so they have to show just enough in the passing game to keep the defense honest. The risk being, when Russell throws it, it won't always have his usual reliable accuracy.

I'm not saying all the other stuff isn't a factor. I am saying that he has only had this type of accuracy problem before (late last season) when he was secretly nursing an injury. Think about his two picks vs. the Giants... despite all the other issues, OL, new receivers, etc., on both, his read to throw it was fine, and both were passes he normally completes. On the first pick, he knew exactly where he wanted to put it, to P-Rich's outside, away from the defender. Russell's body didn't cooperate, and it was a "ball", not a "steee-riike", and got picked. Same thing on the 2nd pick, Russell made the proper read, found single coverage deep, knew where he wanted to deliver it, to the outside shoulder, but his arm disobeyed, and instead he left a hanging curveball over the heart of the plate, and it got picked. Solely physical, mechanical throwing issues, not really related to OL, receivers, or any mental confusion. Toss in that missed easy TD pass against Carolina, where he couldn't get the ball out... I say the primary issue is Russell is nicked up in a way that affects his throwing mechanics and accuracy. So either it happened late in the Rams game, or early in the Carolina game.

I am proposing "Russell is playing through an injury that affects his throwing accuracy" as a hypothesis, not stating it as "fact". However, to me, it seems like this fits the data and more completely explains what we've seen since Carolina (physical throwing inaccuracy) than any explanation that omits this factor.
I stated in another thread, that I thought there could be an injury, and if so, it could very well be a compilation of "All The Above" that could be the reason for the drop off in his play.
 

Recon_Hawk

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Anthony!":1yov7762 said:
bigskydoc":1yov7762 said:
I feel like the voice of one crying in the wilderness when I keep saying that this o-line is gelling into something special AS A UNIT, and most of us are going to be pretty happy with it by the end of the year (barring significant injury). Currently we are sitting at 12th in run protection and 17th in pass protection despite the last couple of weeks.

We had a setback with injuries the last couple of weeks, and o-line play was inconsistent at best. When this line is healthy, they are a friggin road grader running unit who are blasting the line to give our backs space to get moving downfield.

Their identity is the run, but they are improving their pass pro week by week. I don't think they will ever be a top five pass pro line (might just break top ten), but they will give RW just enough to be successful once he gets out of his funk.

Next week, I expect to see a repeat of yesterday's performance when we go up against the worst run defensive line in the league. With Tuku cleaning up the trash, Lynch should see a lot of second level contact against an impressive linebacker corps. KC will be ready for the RW redirect run with one of their pro-bowler linebackers doing the spying, so we will have to figure out another way to get his happy feet working FOR us in this game. I doubt we will be doing much about addressing his pass issues against a stellar pass defense team featuring the top defensive line against the pass.


*all rankings based on Football Outsiders Stats*

-bsd


ahh we went down to 22nd in pass blocking which is not good

Football outsiders ranking is crap. They ranked the pass pro 5 spots higher after the Raiders game where protection was horrible because of all the backups and then this week when pass protection was solid, they drop it down 5 spots.
 

Recon_Hawk

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olyfan63":1jwyv5t8 said:
scutterhawk":1jwyv5t8 said:
Stunted Wilson's growth is putting it mild, as we all are saying that there's something wrong with Wilsons accuracy, and it seems like he's having a problem with seeing his open receivers.
Ahem.....If you think about how poorly the Running Game is without Unger and in there, but fail to make the connection to Russell Wilson's miscommunication mishaps without Unger's help.
Wilson has to read the Defensive formations, while simultaneously having to take into account for the inept play by an inconsistent Offensive Line, and I don't care who is up behind Center, you are NOT going to come away unscathed.
Drawing a correlation with what Tom Cable had to say a couple games back, about having the toughest job he's ever had, at Coaching a bunch of guys that are still green, turned up the lights for me.
Everybody is saying that Peyton Manning get's rid of the ball so fast, that it isn't a problem....SB XLVIII says otherwise, and too, who does Wilson throw to real fast, when the Defenses mows over his O-Line, and comes straight up into his face?,,,, Percy? Walters? Well, we all saw how that worked out eh?
A lot of the crap that's being leveled against Wilson, is NOT his fault, PERIOD

Wilson has had weird accuracy problems since after the Rams game.
I suspect there is a physical component (injury) we aren't being told about. We saw this at the end of last season and IIRC, we found out much later that Wilson did have a banged up shoulder he was trying to protect.
Whether it's something like a cracked rib, wrist injury, or whatever, it affects his accuracy but not really his velocity. I keep thinking back to the wide open TD flip to an open TE (Helfet) in the Carolina game, where Russ couldn't get the ball out of his hand. Was that due to an injury, where his arm simply didn't obey his mind's commands? The game-winning drive he led vs Carolina was primarily with his running.

Further, Russell *knows* his accuracy isn't up to his usual standard due to injuries affecting his throwing mechanics, he's going to be very reluctant to throw to windows that aren't wide open. And Bevell is going to try to protect him by playcalls that don't ask him to make certain throws that are likely to either tweak the injury further, or where Russell is likely to be so inaccurate as to risk a turnover. And Pete and Cable and Bevell are going to design game plans that feature the run even more heavily than usual, including Russell running, basically taking a big chunk of the passing playbook off the table. But, they don't want to tip off the opponent that Russell can't make all his usual throws, and allow the defense to "cheat", so they have to show just enough in the passing game to keep the defense honest. The risk being, when Russell throws it, it won't always have his usual reliable accuracy.

I'm not saying all the other stuff isn't a factor. I am saying that he has only had this type of accuracy problem before (late last season) when he was secretly nursing an injury. Think about his two picks vs. the Giants... despite all the other issues, OL, new receivers, etc., on both, his read to throw it was fine, and both were passes he normally completes. On the first pick, he knew exactly where he wanted to put it, to P-Rich's outside, away from the defender. Russell's body didn't cooperate, and it was a "ball", not a "steee-riike", and got picked. Same thing on the 2nd pick, Russell made the proper read, found single coverage deep, knew where he wanted to deliver it, to the outside shoulder, but his arm disobeyed, and instead he left a hanging curveball over the heart of the plate, and it got picked. Solely physical, mechanical throwing issues, not really related to OL, receivers, or any mental confusion. Toss in that missed easy TD pass against Carolina, where he couldn't get the ball out... I say the primary issue is Russell is nicked up in a way that affects his throwing mechanics and accuracy. So either it happened late in the Rams game, or early in the Carolina game.

I am proposing "Russell is playing through an injury that affects his throwing accuracy" as a hypothesis, not stating it as "fact". However, to me, it seems like this fits the data and more completely explains what we've seen since Carolina (physical throwing inaccuracy) than any explanation that omits this factor.

Remember that sound bite of Wilson not understanding why he's missing receivers? If it was injury related he wouldn't have been questioning himself. He'd have known it was because of a hurt shoulder making it hard to grip the ball or that a cracked rib gave him too much pain to fully extend on his release.

Its been awhile since I pitched in baseball or played quarterback, but in my experience, missing throws was often because of poor mechanics or poor timing. Both are more mental than anything else.
 

SomersetHawk

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Last week Russ decided it was his footwork, and I believe him to an extent. Often we'll see him look to set himself before a rusher or five breach the turnstiles and cause Russ to bail. I'm not an expert, hell I'm not even remotely credible, but in my mind I can totally see how a depleted O-line may cause some issues with a QBs footwork.

This week though, I started to buy into the argument he was pressing, and the evidence from the first interception goes far enough to back it up.

Russ's initial protection on the play was OK. He appeared to look up and progress from left to right. The first read was, well, I doubt it's a read, the receiver was running a long route so Russ scanned to the middle, where a whole heap of linemen were congregated. I don't care how open Baldwin got, I doubt there was a lane for Russ to see him open (though some of you All-22ers can correct me if I'm wrong).

At this point though, a rusher came free from the pile and made haste toward Russell; who now had a decision to make. Normally we might see him roll to avoid the rusher but instead he set himself a little too quickly and forced the ball to the right, barely as soon as he'd made the read, it appears. We know the rest.

I've neglected to mention that this was play action, and I counted less than two seconds between Russell looking up to scan the field and releasing the ball. He also got hit pretty much as the ball came out. Under that much pressure, with so little time and such a dubious read, maybe only Aaron Rodgers throws a catchable ball to Richardson.

As I say, we'd usually expect Russ to avoid the rush after seeing no open receivers, he'd then be able to clock an open Baldwin and we might have a big gain, it's how it usually goes down. But, for whatever reason, Russell is putting some unnecessary pressure on himself and trying to make throws that aren't really there. I trust him to fix it, he always has, and I'd be far more concerned if he was making these throws with time to burn.
 

Scottemojo

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SomersetHawk":1fbqnwuz said:
Last week Russ decided it was his footwork, and I believe him to an extent. Often we'll see him look to set himself before a rusher or five breach the turnstiles and cause Russ to bail. I'm not an expert, hell I'm not even remotely credible, but in my mind I can totally see how a depleted O-line may cause some issues with a QBs footwork.

This week though, I started to buy into the argument he was pressing, and the evidence from the first interception goes far enough to back it up.

Russ's initial protection on the play was OK. He appeared to look up and progress from left to right. The first read was, well, I doubt it's a read, the receiver was running a long route so Russ scanned to the middle, where a whole heap of linemen were congregated. I don't care how open Baldwin got, I doubt there was a lane for Russ to see him open (though some of you All-22ers can correct me if I'm wrong).

At this point though, a rusher came free from the pile and made haste toward Russell; who now had a decision to make. Normally we might see him roll to avoid the rusher but instead he set himself a little too quickly and forced the ball to the right, barely as soon as he'd made the read, it appears. We know the rest.

I've neglected to mention that this was play action, and I counted less than two seconds between Russell looking up to scan the field and releasing the ball. He also got hit pretty much as the ball came out. Under that much pressure, with so little time and such a dubious read, maybe only Aaron Rodgers throws a catchable ball to Richardson.

As I say, we'd usually expect Russ to avoid the rush after seeing no open receivers, he'd then be able to clock an open Baldwin and we might have a big gain, it's how it usually goes down. But, for whatever reason, Russell is putting some unnecessary pressure on himself and trying to make throws that aren't really there. I trust him to fix it, he always has, and I'd be far more concerned if he was making these throws with time to burn.
He is pressing. He normally trusts his receivers enough to hang the ball on the green side, they go get it. Both picks were him spot throwing it right to a receiver.

Which is why I know he will right the ship. It isn't a monumental fix.
 

Ozzy

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Scottemojo gets it. Spin Doctor doesn't.

Good post.
 

olyfan63

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Recon_Hawk":17kidlmv said:
olyfan63":17kidlmv said:
Wilson has had weird accuracy problems since after the Rams game.
I suspect there is a physical component (injury) we aren't being told about. We saw this at the end of last season and IIRC, we found out much later that Wilson did have a banged up shoulder he was trying to protect.
Whether it's something like a cracked rib, wrist injury, or whatever, it affects his accuracy but not really his velocity. I keep thinking back to the wide open TD flip to an open TE (Helfet) in the Carolina game, where Russ couldn't get the ball out of his hand. Was that due to an injury, where his arm simply didn't obey his mind's commands? The game-winning drive he led vs Carolina was primarily with his running.
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I am proposing "Russell is playing through an injury that affects his throwing accuracy" as a hypothesis, not stating it as "fact". However, to me, it seems like this fits the data and more completely explains what we've seen since Carolina (physical throwing inaccuracy) than any explanation that omits this factor.

Remember that sound bite of Wilson not understanding why he's missing receivers? If it was injury related he wouldn't have been questioning himself. He'd have known it was because of a hurt shoulder making it hard to grip the ball or that a cracked rib gave him too much pain to fully extend on his release.

Its been awhile since I pitched in baseball or played quarterback, but in my experience, missing throws was often because of poor mechanics or poor timing. Both are more mental than anything else.

Absolutely I recall the Wilson sound bytes, the rarely seen facial expressions (bafflement plus frustration with self). I simply don't give them 100% credibility as clues to what is *really* happening.

1) Do we all believe that Russell is such a choir boy that a little "acting" is beneath him, especially when the "acting" would help the team by avoiding tipping off opponents? As for me... HELL NO! Russell is a crafty son-of-a-gun, and besides, it's not really a lie... Russell is puzzled and confused that he's not able to put it on target DESPITE being nicked up. In his mind, he should be able to put EVERY ball on target, regardless.

2) Has Russell shown that he is a highly capable actor? From his Alaska Air commercials, which are a riot, I think he has a future in acting after playing days are over. Dude is GOOD at this stuff.

3) Who are the models of coyness and strategic misdirection that Russell has available to emulate, in his immediate environment? Why none other than Sneaky Pete and Secretive Schneider. You think the QB might get a little coaching on his media communication from that pair? I sure do.

4) Has Russell ever concealed an injury that affects his throwing before? Absolutely. Last year. There's plenty of precedent.

I'll compare throwing a football accurately to shooting a basketball accurately (since I never played much baseball) and acknowledge your point, throwing accurately, with physical pressure in your face, is a fragile skill, with a foundation of technical fundamentals under it. However, even a seemingly minor injury can easily mess up mechanics and fundamentals enough to knock a pro down a couple notches on the accuracy scale. Rotator cuff, cracked rib, forearm injury, thumb ligament, wrist injury, could be any of these or a dozen other things.

The truth is that none of us *really* knows the causes at this point. We just know that Russell is missing throws a LOT more than he normally does, and that this has been going on for about 3 weeks.

I'm simply tossing out the possibility of an injury as a primary factor, along with the other factors. Russell's had the other factors before, and had 300-yard games anyway. Most recently, the Rams game.Starting with the Carolina game, he just hasn't been the same.

It's very interesting the moves Pete and John have made to reinforce the smashmouth running game for the 2nd half of the season. Is it because they expect Russell and the passing game will struggle during that time? It might be unrelated to the hypothetical Russell-is-hurt scenario, but Pete and John have sure gone "All In" on the running game, with their player acquisitions. It might just be clever Pete noticing teams have structured their defenses to stop passing games, and exploiting that by doubling down on the smashmouth running game as the key to winning the rest of the year. I'm just not ready to rule out the possibility that Russell is hurt in a way that affects his throwing, and that Pete and John are expecting it to last another month full of key games.
 
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