The Empty Backfield Never Works & Britt Needs Help

Is it just me? Any time this team lines up with an empty backfield, I'm counting on an incomplete pass. If anyone has numbers on this sort of thing, I'd love to see them. I swear that 4/5 empty backfield plays are a failure. Going back several years.

Another thing: when Britt is getting beaten all day by one elite pass rusher or another, why not give him some chip help? I don't understand it. Especially at the end of the game when you need routes to develop. Weren't we all counting on Hali to destroy Britt 1-on-1 on that last possession?

I'm not a "fire Bevell" guy at all. I think he does a lot of great things. But there are some serious head scratchers at times.

Edit: mods, this could totally be moved into PeHawk's post. Apologies. I left the "new topic" window open so long I didn't see that thread.

nanomoz":35s5i10z said:

Is it just me? Any time this team lines up with an empty backfield, I'm counting on an incomplete pass. If anyone has numbers on this sort of thing, I'd love to see them. I swear that 4/5 empty backfield plays are a failure. Going back several years.

Another thing: when Britt is getting beaten all day by one elite pass rusher or another, why not give him some chip help? I don't understand it. Especially at the end of the game when you need routes to develop. Weren't we all counting on Hali to destroy Britt 1-on-1 on that last possession?

I'm not a "fire Bevell" guy at all. I think he does a lot of great things. But there are some serious head scratchers at times.

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These are important points. The coaches were essentially begging KC to pin their ears back and tee off on Wilson.

If we kept a back like Lynch or Turbin in to chip and help Britt out, he could then leak out into the flat. Those plays have been working well for us all year, especially when it's a bit slower developing. I agree that we should see it more often.

nanomoz":2yn54l4q said:

Is it just me? Any time this team lines up with an empty backfield, I'm counting on an incomplete pass. If anyone has numbers on this sort of thing, I'd love to see them. I swear that 4/5 empty backfield plays are a failure. Going back several years.

Another thing: when Britt is getting beaten all day by one elite pass rusher or another, why not give him some chip help? I don't understand it. Especially at the end of the game when you need routes to develop. Weren't we all counting on Hali to destroy Britt 1-on-1 on that last possession?

I'm not a "fire Bevell" guy at all. I think he does a lot of great things. But there are some serious head scratchers at times.

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You're absolutely not out of line with the empty backfield look. It's a complete waste in this offense. Our passing game is reliant on play-action. Even if we're not going to fake the handoff for a play-action pass, we need to keep a back in the backfield, so we're not telegraphing that we're trying to pass with the worst passing offense in the NFL.

I'm a "Fire Bevell" guy... If he didn't have Russell Wilson for a QB bailing his crappy playcalls out with his athleticism and Lynch bailing his crappy runs out with multiple broken tackles, He'd be running the worst offense in the NFL right now.

The biggest problem with the empty backfield is that Bevell has the same receivers running the same routes every time, so the defense knows what's coming and where to be to stop it.

Dude, I've been yelling about the empty backfield thing since day one (RW's rookie season). My best guess is that it makes things as simple as possible for RW (re: reading defenses). There is simply no other explanation. I still hate it.

If you're going to go out of an empty backfield, it should at least be out of the shotgun, no? It seems the overuse of the formation is putting WIlson at a distinct disadvantage. Putting him in the shotgun would at least give him a better opportunity to survey the field or decide whether to scramble.

SirTed":2jw5ugqr said:

Dude, I've been yelling about the empty backfield thing since day one (RW's rookie season). My best guess is that it makes things as simple as possible for RW (re: reading defenses). There is simply no other explanation. I still hate it.

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Come on man! RW is a smart guy he doesn't need it to be simple. Simplicity though is the problem. The passing scheme is abysmal. Our WRs need help in the way of deception and rubbing defenders off. we need to throw more dink passes to the backs to keep everyone honest. Zero passes to any RBs today except one desperation pass on the last drive.

SirTed":2svb2omt said:

Dude, I've been yelling about the empty backfield thing since day one (RW's rookie season). My best guess is that it makes things as simple as possible for RW (re: reading defenses). There is simply no other explanation. I still hate it.

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Having a back in the back filed does not help Wilson read a defense, it puts him at a huge disadvantage with our bad oline.

Miller was Britt's help earlier this year. Who do you put next to him, now?

firebee":3mgvkief said:

If [Bevell] didn't have Russell Wilson for a QB bailing his crappy playcalls out with his athleticism and Lynch bailing his crappy runs out with multiple broken tackles, He'd be running the worst offense in the NFL right now.

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Freaking bingo.

Sarlacc83":1y7ly88z said:

Miller was Britt's help earlier this year. Who do you put next to him, now?

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Garry Gilliam has looked good in that role when given the opportunity.

I'm a cheerleader, I don't know football Xs&Os.
But even my ignorant A$$ knows that an empty back field means almost zero threat of a run.
That in turn makes defending a weak pass attack even easier.
It's like lining up with no receivers. You don't need to worry much about a pass.
Duh.

And the last play it was 4th and 19 and they don't give Britt help???? Bevell doesn't give us much of a chance to put us in position to be successful. A fade route to Baldwin to take the lead on the other 4th down. That doesn't play into RW or Baldwins strengths. Come on man!

If it's not an empty backfield, bevell seems to not be willing to use a fullback in key situations like 4th and inches. Why is it that on 3rd or 4th and short he almost always dials up a single back set? I know lynch has mentioned he loves running behind a fullback but on short yardage situations bevell insists on taking that option away from him.

I have been a fire bevell guy since he dawned hawks apparel and I never waiver. He's not the worst in the league but not worthy of the Hawks and I'd probably rank him in the bottom 10 as far as oc's go. I had no problem ripping the leaders in this organization for the handling of Harvin and not trading him high and I will rip them for the same thing with Bevell...they have done a huge disservice to this team by holding onto bevell this long.

I agree completely and have noticed the same. An empty backfield requires the play to develop, a luxury our O line doesn't allow. Excellent topic.

HawkerD":1xa9nhju said:

SirTed":1xa9nhju said:

Dude, I've been yelling about the empty backfield thing since day one (RW's rookie season). My best guess is that it makes things as simple as possible for RW (re: reading defenses). There is simply no other explanation. I still hate it.

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Come on man! RW is a smart guy he doesn't need it to be simple. Simplicity though is the problem. The passing scheme is abysmal. Our WRs need help in the way of deception and rubbing defenders off. we need to throw more dink passes to the backs to keep everyone honest. Zero passes to any RBs today except one desperation pass on the last drive.

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I know it's sacrilege to be critical of RW around here, and I don't even mean to be, really. But the dude has flaws in his game. Every player does, I'm not trying to put any additional blame on him, but he's not exactly great at pre-snap reads, from what I can tell. But I can only tell so much from the TV screen.

My point was - despite how easy it seems to just say "Bevell is a idiot" (it's possible he is), I can come up with no other explanation as to why they would routinely go to the empty set.

Why would you take your best player (Lynch) off of the field, or at a minimum take him out of the spot he's most effective (the backfield)? I can't think of one. You can't even threaten play action, our shot at a successful pass play.



Now, when you come out in an empty set, the one thing it does is stretch the defense out, and makes it more difficult for them to disguise what they're doing. Why would we do this? Again, the only explanation is that RW needs the help in pre-snap reads.

I still think they should abandon it. whatever value they see in it isn't worth it to me.

SirTed":ieaiwic1 said:

HawkerD":ieaiwic1 said:

SirTed":ieaiwic1 said:

Dude, I've been yelling about the empty backfield thing since day one (RW's rookie season). My best guess is that it makes things as simple as possible for RW (re: reading defenses). There is simply no other explanation. I still hate it.

Click to expand...

Come on man! RW is a smart guy he doesn't need it to be simple. Simplicity though is the problem. The passing scheme is abysmal. Our WRs need help in the way of deception and rubbing defenders off. we need to throw more dink passes to the backs to keep everyone honest. Zero passes to any RBs today except one desperation pass on the last drive.

Click to expand...

I know it's sacrilege to be critical of RW around here, and I don't even mean to be, really. But the dude has flaws in his game. Every player does, I'm not trying to put any additional blame on him, but he's not exactly great at pre-snap reads, from what I can tell. But I can only tell so much from the TV screen.

My point was - despite how easy it seems to just say "Bevell is a idiot" (it's possible he is), I can come up with no other explanation as to why they would routinely go to the empty set.

Why would you take your best player (Lynch) off of the field, or at a minimum take him out of the spot he's most effective (the backfield)? I can't think of one. You can't even threaten play action, our shot at a successful pass play.



Now, when you come out in an empty set, the one thing it does is stretch the defense out, and makes it more difficult for them to disguise what they're doing. Why would we do this? Again, the only explanation is that RW needs the help in pre-snap reads.

I still think they should abandon it. whatever value they see in it isn't worth it to me.

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I agree every player has flaws to include the big 4 QBs, however pre snap reads is not one for Wilson. Nice assumption on why the empty back filed and it is an assumption, Here is one, because of how bad our WRs are at getting open, Bevell decided to have an empty backfield to allow an extra WR and hope that someone gets open and relies on Wilson mobility to stay alive. I Mean that is as likely as your assumption on pre snap reads. I do not mind saying Wilson has flaws as you said everyone does, but at least lets be factual not assuming something we do not know. I have seen Wilson change protections, and plays to many times and it work for me to believe he sucks at presnap reads.

FYI one of Wilsons flaws is he can be a bit of a pleaser, which costs us yards when that pleasing is protecting your WR at all costs to include a first down. IE the throw to Richardson, he threw that in a place were Richardson could protect himself but not get any YAC. That was a by product of the yelling match with Baldwin a few weeks ago. Another flaw is he tries so hard to give his WR a chance to make a play I think it costs him accuracy. However pre snap reads not one of them

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I've seen Wilson change plays and protections as well. I've also seen him miss quite a few. I'm not jumping on Wilson here. We can win with him at QB but the level at which people ignore his faults around here is ridiculous.