How Seahawk Fans Can Help Referees Make Better Calls

BirdsCommaAngry

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Between Testeverde's phantom touchdown, Super Bowl XL, and our overall dislike of questionable and blatantly erroneous calls, we've had a very eventful relationship with the zebras. Currently, this relationship has been coming to a head as we watch our team continue week after week as the most penalized while having the fewest number of penalties being called against our opponents. It's aggravating. It's frustrating. It's distressing to the point where we even ruminate and discuss this issue without thought as to what we can do to provide a solution. Even when we do discuss solutions, like adding oversight through increasing the role of replay, relying more on booth reviewers, employing full-time referees, etc, they're passive solutions. These are solutions that are proposed without the knowledge of how we affect the referee decisions and put that responsibility squarely on the shoulders of the institution providing us with our favorite sport.

What I'm about to tell you is that while the errors of referees can be a product of corruption, inexperience, incompetence, lacking oversight, and everything else we allude to about them, they're also a product of what the fans in the stadium choose to do on game-day. With knowing what that influence is and how it works, we can help chip away at that very disparity in penalties that is hampering us today.

The basis of our influence over the referees is centered around two key quirks in human nature: Actor-observer bias and the biology behind how we determine whether something is accurate or not. Actor-observer bias, which is the tendency for people to attribute their own decisions to situational factors while attributing the decisions of others to their personality. In other words, if I trip over someone's foot on the way to my seat, I'm more likely to feel it's because I was distracted by something happening on the field or in the stands. If I'm witness to someone else tripping, I'm more likely to think they're just clumsy. When it comes to critiquing referees, we make the same oversimplification and judge them by our perception of their personalities and not by what's influencing them. This is the basis for why we haven't figured out or made ourselves aware of what fans can do to help referees assist their team. We looked only at them and not their biggest situational factor during the game: the home-team's fans.

To understand how we're such a factor, we need to understand the second quirk in human nature I mentioned regarding how we go about determining whether someone is deceiving us or not. The overall process is simple: one part of our brain will assume whatever it is presented with is true automatically and it will only be found false after higher-functions of our mind dig deeper and determine it is false. It's like our legal system stating we're innocent until proven guilty, only that our brain's governing function is to assume truth until proven false. This is why kids can trick one another by asking "Hey, did you know the word gullible isn't in the dictionary?" and generally getting a response made up of one version "Really?" or another before they realize they're being duped.

With referees, it's the booing of calls against the home team and the cheering of calls against the away team that creates the bulk of home-field advantage across all major sports because of how it ever so slightly influences the decisions of the referees on such an unconscious level. With our fans booing and cheering as homeristicly as any fan-base, with one of the highest capacities for fan volume on the planet, and with the heightened expectations from our SB victory, it's no wonder we're beginning to see repercussions that exceed those of other franchises

One of the underlying reasons lies, biases, and other forms of falseness can be so aggravating is because even when we know what we're observing is incorrect, determining that still required believing, if only for an instant, in its validity. Thus, when we see our striped friends make one of the blunders they've become so infamous for, many of us go through that familiar cycle starting with an internalized or even vocalized thought basically saying "Really?". What we don't realize though, is that this in fact a two-way street. We dislike when refs make calls against our guys but we loathe it when they make bad calls against our guys. For referees, they dislike it when we boo their calls against our guys but they must loathe it when we boo the obvious calls they're making.

If we want more fairness from the men in stripes, we would have to exhibit more fairness in the way we choose to react to them on game-day. If we want them to be biased but be biased in favor of us like we've mostly been doing, we can keep cheering and jeering as we are. If we want to do our part in mitigating the discrepancy in officiating toward our team and our opponents, we would need to reserve our cheers for only the good calls against our opponents and the jeers only for the poorer calls against us.
 

Lords of Scythia

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"What I'm about to tell you is that while the errors of referees can be a product of corruption, inexperience, incompetence,"

...impotence and nepotism.
 

hawksfansinceday1

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Or the NFL could actually hold these bozos accountable for their poor job performance by terminating them and working new guys in until they get quality people doing the job. I mean really, should Bill Leavy still be a referee?
 

irocdave

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Meh, I don't buy in to this theory at all. It really comes down to the NFL trying to keep games close and or guiding outcomes. That's the way I see it and have for a long time. Follow the money and it makes perfect sense. Blowouts and small market teams dominating is not good for the TV ratings. Look no further than the Hawks schedule this year and lack of prime time games for an perfect example. To many blowouts at Quest the last couple of years. Some of those BS calls in yesterdays niners game were another example of this. The Hawks should have hung 30+ on the niners. The timing of those bad calls had nothing to do with how the crowd was reacting to calls during the game.

It is what it is and teams have to overcome it.
 
OP
OP
B

BirdsCommaAngry

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hawksfansinceday1":2n3tat55 said:
Or the NFL could actually hold these bozos accountable for their poor job performance by terminating them and working new guys in until they get quality people doing the job. I mean really, should Bill Leavy still be a referee?

This is exactly the kind of misconception we need enlightening on. Bill Leavy's errors are not simply an aspect of Bill Leavy, they're an aspect of Bill Leavy under the copious influences found within the culture of the NFL. If we only hold him accountable, then we're offering nothing to solve the NFL's and the fans' roles in producing those errors and even his replacement would be met with a similar struggle to perform his position to our perceived standard. Companies like Apple and Google have to restrict negative communication when developing new ideas to protect their employees from holding back to preempt a negative response. In the NFL, there in no such umbrella as referees have the pleasure of their best work receiving praise amounting to fans simply stating "Good call" or saying nothing at all while their worst work results in demands for their firing and even death threats. We want them to be excellent but actively do little ourselves to put them in a position to be excellent.
 

Largent80

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hawksfansinceday1":2jqsbc65 said:
Or the NFL could actually hold these bozos accountable for their poor job performance by terminating them and working new guys in until they get quality people doing the job. I mean really, should Bill Leavy still be a referee?

Mike, this is my exact way to punish these turds.
 

lvnginhwktwn

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Largent80":xdp0s23m said:
hawksfansinceday1":xdp0s23m said:
Or the NFL could actually hold these bozos accountable for their poor job performance by terminating them and working new guys in until they get quality people doing the job. I mean really, should Bill Leavy still be a referee?

Mike, this is my exact way to punish these turds.


This

If being a ref is your only job you're more likely to do the best you can, but if you're already a lawyer, or college professor no big if you lose your second job
 

gonzhawk

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irocdave":1au3gadr said:
Meh, I don't buy in to this theory at all. It really comes down to the NFL trying to keep games close and or guiding outcomes. That's the way I see it and have for a long time. Follow the money and it makes perfect sense. Blowouts and small market teams dominating is not good for the TV ratings. Look no further than the Hawks schedule this year and lack of prime time games for an perfect example. To many blowouts at Quest the last couple of years. Some of those BS calls in yesterdays niners game were another example of this. The Hawks should have hung 30+ on the niners. The timing of those bad calls had nothing to do with how the crowd was reacting to calls during the game.

It is what it is and teams have to overcome it.


This! :th2thumbs:

Superbowl Champs Seattle Seahawks is not good for the NFL bottom line$. We were not relevant to all that is holy in the NFL in the last 34 years, until now. In reference to big markets and the entire 50 states being interested.

THE ONLY WAY THE SEAHAWKS WIN the SUPERBOWL IS BY BEING SO GOOD THERE IS NO OPPORTUNITY FOR A SUBTLE NUDGE BY THE OFFICIATING TO MAKE A BETTER PRODUCT. As in a good game, big market win, etc.

To a person, how many of us heard in the offseason by non Hawk/Donk fans how bad of a game that was?
I respond, well, it was the single best moment of my life, not family related, so no problem.

I believe that while there is not flat out conspiracy, you can't think for a second that the league/owners, etc. think that
a repeat by that team in Alaska that was never good enough, never relevant, is not good for the NFL.

I am an older fan now, but thanks Pete, John, Russ, and Sherm/Earl/Kam for beating the NFL at their own game! at least one time! May the odds be in our favor, for a second Lombardi, if not this year, then very soon!
 

SalishHawkFan

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The theory you're propounding sounds good on the surface, but there is a fatal flaw to your logic: Our opponents aren't being called for penalties in our away games either. A second fatal flaw is that we've always been an extremely loud stadium yet this theoretical effect has never exhibited itself in any previous season.

Statistical analysts have declared that the level of this disparity cannot be explained by random factors. When you rule out random factors, all you have left are deliberate intentions.

All you have left is Discriminatory Officiating.

They made a Legion of Boom rule. They even called it that. Do they hate us? Do they subconciously not want to see us win?

This isn't just a recent development. As the OP said, this is something we've become accustomed to. Testeverde's helmet. the Baltimore game, SB XL. What are common denominators?

Seattle.

Seahawks.

Paul Allen.

We can rule out the Seahawks because 1: The team isn't even the same team it was over all those years and 2: Why would they hate a particular franchise?

That leaves us with Seattle and Paul Allen.

Paul Allen? Does he rub the other owners the wrong way? I can't think of anything he's ever done to bring down such hatred.

It could be Seattle. Seattle is liberal. Most people in the NFL are conservative. (Are you ready for some football? No coincidence that singer ripped into Obama.) But if that were the case, wouldn't the Niners have had the same problem? Or are the Niners one of the Fabled Franchises that rise above such pettiness? Montana, Rice, etc.?

LA had the same problem. LA is considered THE city of liberals by the right. As Pete Carroll has pointed out, this exact same thing happened when USC won the national title. For four years they were subjected to that type of prejudice.

Conservatives even have a name for what they hate: The Left Coast. Conservatives hate the Left Coast. USC was a Left Coast team. Seattle is a Left Coast team. So how about Oakland? San Diego?

Nope. No correlation between how penalized a teams opponents are and their geopolitical location.

So maybe what's happening this year has nothing to do with how we've been ripped off by the refs over the years.

But there is ONE correlation: Pete Carroll at USC and Pete Carroll in Seattle. Both times he won a championship. Both times his teams suffered from discriminatory officiating. The common denominator is that they retaliated at Pete Carroll when his teams won championships.

In 2003, he won the AP poll, but not the BCS (though three coaches broke the rules and voted for USC). In 2004 the Trojans trounced Oklahoma 59-14 and won the BCS. That title was later stripped by NCAA sanctions. ESPN's Ted Miller said:
It's become an accepted fact among informed college football observers that the NCAA sanctions against USC were a travesty of justice, and the NCAA’s refusal to revisit that travesty are a massive act of cowardice on the part of the organization.

In other words, the NCAA had it out for Pete Carroll. Why? He dared to drub the Big 12? Left Coast haters? That was the conference of the Texas schools. Texans probably invented the term Left Coast.

There's only one problem with that theory: The Pac-10 had it's own refs and Carroll wasn't getting screwed by Big 12 refs, he was getting screwed by Pac-10 refs.

So it's NOT a vendetta by the refs, it's the natural response by the refs to something Pete Carroll does. What does PC do? He uses the same defensive philosophy. Aggressive, ball hawking, swarming defense and a suffocating secondary that hits hard and plays rough.

The refs are so busy watching us for any violations that they're incapable of keeping a close eye on the other team. Because of the style of game we play. Pete Carroll's style.

We as fans cannot do ANYTHING about that except try to make it known that we find it discriminatory on every national sports website at every opportunity. The rest is up to Pete to hammer the message home to the NFL.
 

MizzouHawkGal

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BirdsCommaAngry":rqrhgrch said:
Between Testeverde's phantom touchdown, Super Bowl XL, and our overall dislike of questionable and blatantly erroneous calls, we've had a very eventful relationship with the zebras. Currently, this relationship has been coming to a head as we watch our team continue week after week as the most penalized while having the fewest number of penalties being called against our opponents. It's aggravating. It's frustrating. It's distressing to the point where we even ruminate and discuss this issue without thought as to what we can do to provide a solution. Even when we do discuss solutions, like adding oversight through increasing the role of replay, relying more on booth reviewers, employing full-time referees, etc, they're passive solutions. These are solutions that are proposed without the knowledge of how we affect the referee decisions and put that responsibility squarely on the shoulders of the institution providing us with our favorite sport.

What I'm about to tell you is that while the errors of referees can be a product of corruption, inexperience, incompetence, lacking oversight, and everything else we allude to about them, they're also a product of what the fans in the stadium choose to do on game-day. With knowing what that influence is and how it works, we can help chip away at that very disparity in penalties that is hampering us today.

The basis of our influence over the referees is centered around two key quirks in human nature: Actor-observer bias and the biology behind how we determine whether something is accurate or not. Actor-observer bias, which is the tendency for people to attribute their own decisions to situational factors while attributing the decisions of others to their personality. In other words, if I trip over someone's foot on the way to my seat, I'm more likely to feel it's because I was distracted by something happening on the field or in the stands. If I'm witness to someone else tripping, I'm more likely to think they're just clumsy. When it comes to critiquing referees, we make the same oversimplification and judge them by our perception of their personalities and not by what's influencing them. This is the basis for why we haven't figured out or made ourselves aware of what fans can do to help referees assist their team. We looked only at them and not their biggest situational factor during the game: the home-team's fans.

To understand how we're such a factor, we need to understand the second quirk in human nature I mentioned regarding how we go about determining whether someone is deceiving us or not. The overall process is simple: one part of our brain will assume whatever it is presented with is true automatically and it will only be found false after higher-functions of our mind dig deeper and determine it is false. It's like our legal system stating we're innocent until proven guilty, only that our brain's governing function is to assume truth until proven false. This is why kids can trick one another by asking "Hey, did you know the word gullible isn't in the dictionary?" and generally getting a response made up of one version "Really?" or another before they realize they're being duped.

With referees, it's the booing of calls against the home team and the cheering of calls against the away team that creates the bulk of home-field advantage across all major sports because of how it ever so slightly influences the decisions of the referees on such an unconscious level. With our fans booing and cheering as homeristicly as any fan-base, with one of the highest capacities for fan volume on the planet, and with the heightened expectations from our SB victory, it's no wonder we're beginning to see repercussions that exceed those of other franchises

One of the underlying reasons lies, biases, and other forms of falseness can be so aggravating is because even when we know what we're observing is incorrect, determining that still required believing, if only for an instant, in its validity. Thus, when we see our striped friends make one of the blunders they've become so infamous for, many of us go through that familiar cycle starting with an internalized or even vocalized thought basically saying "Really?". What we don't realize though, is that this in fact a two-way street. We dislike when refs make calls against our guys but we loathe it when they make bad calls against our guys. For referees, they dislike it when we boo their calls against our guys but they must loat Whhe it when we boo the obvious calls they're making.

If we want more fairness from the men in stripes, we would have to exhibit more fairness in the way we choose to react to them on game-day. If we want them to be biased but be biased in favor of us like we've mostly been doing, we can keep cheering and jeering as we are. If we want to do our part in mitigating the discrepancy in officiating toward our team and our opponents, we would need to reserve our cheers for only the good calls against our opponents and the jeers only for the poorer calls against us.
Not sure if serious. What I do think will help is...

1. Erase the false starts and encroachment bullshit
2. Accept the fact that we will ALWAYS be penalized a bit more then others because of our playstyle
3. Make sure we ALWAYS have the talent to overcome the second ie. become this era's Pittsburgh remember they were and still are a small market team yet they have a generational nation wide fanbase.

Otherwise nice observations and post. Whether I disagree or not it's thought provoking.
 

irocdave

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SalishHawkFan":24ut8e78 said:
The theory you're propounding sounds good on the surface, but there is a fatal flaw to your logic: Our opponents aren't being called for penalties in our away games either. A second fatal flaw is that we've always been an extremely loud stadium yet this theoretical effect has never exhibited itself in any previous season.

Statistical analysts have declared that the level of this disparity cannot be explained by random factors. When you rule out random factors, all you have left are deliberate intentions.

All you have left is Discriminatory Officiating.

They made a Legion of Boom rule. They even called it that. Do they hate us? Do they subconciously not want to see us win?

This isn't just a recent development. As the OP said, this is something we've become accustomed to. Testeverde's helmet. the Baltimore game, SB XL. What are common denominators?

Seattle.

Seahawks.

Paul Allen.

We can rule out the Seahawks because 1: The team isn't even the same team it was over all those years and 2: Why would they hate a particular franchise?

That leaves us with Seattle and Paul Allen.

Paul Allen? Does he rub the other owners the wrong way? I can't think of anything he's ever done to bring down such hatred.

It could be Seattle. Seattle is liberal. Most people in the NFL are conservative. (Are you ready for some football? No coincidence that singer ripped into Obama.) But if that were the case, wouldn't the Niners have had the same problem? Or are the Niners one of the Fabled Franchises that rise above such pettiness? Montana, Rice, etc.?

LA had the same problem. LA is considered THE city of liberals by the right. As Pete Carroll has pointed out, this exact same thing happened when USC won the national title. For four years they were subjected to that type of prejudice.

Conservatives even have a name for what they hate: The Left Coast. Conservatives hate the Left Coast. USC was a Left Coast team. Seattle is a Left Coast team. So how about Oakland? San Diego?

Nope. No correlation between how penalized a teams opponents are and their geopolitical location.

So maybe what's happening this year has nothing to do with how we've been ripped off by the refs over the years.

But there is ONE correlation: Pete Carroll at USC and Pete Carroll in Seattle. Both times he won a championship. Both times his teams suffered from discriminatory officiating. The common denominator is that they retaliated at Pete Carroll when his teams won championships.

In 2003, he won the AP poll, but not the BCS (though three coaches broke the rules and voted for USC). In 2004 the Trojans trounced Oklahoma 59-14 and won the BCS. That title was later stripped by NCAA sanctions. ESPN's Ted Miller said:
It's become an accepted fact among informed college football observers that the NCAA sanctions against USC were a travesty of justice, and the NCAA’s refusal to revisit that travesty are a massive act of cowardice on the part of the organization.

In other words, the NCAA had it out for Pete Carroll. Why? He dared to drub the Big 12? Left Coast haters? That was the conference of the Texas schools. Texans probably invented the term Left Coast.

There's only one problem with that theory: The Pac-10 had it's own refs and Carroll wasn't getting screwed by Big 12 refs, he was getting screwed by Pac-10 refs.

So it's NOT a vendetta by the refs, it's the natural response by the refs to something Pete Carroll does. What does PC do? He uses the same defensive philosophy. Aggressive, ball hawking, swarming defense and a suffocating secondary that hits hard and plays rough.

The refs are so busy watching us for any violations that they're incapable of keeping a close eye on the other team. Because of the style of game we play. Pete Carroll's style.

We as fans cannot do ANYTHING about that except try to make it known that we find it discriminatory on every national sports website at every opportunity. The rest is up to Pete to hammer the message home to the NFL.

Your putting WAY to much thought in to this and missing the obvious. TV dollars, simple as that. People can bitch about Sherman all they want, but that's where his brilliance comes through. He keeps the Hawks relevant to the NFL viewing audience. Hate is the same as love in that realm. Go watch the 30 for 30 on Bosworth. THAT is exactly what Sherman is doing. Sherm talks about the way Ali promoted himself, but what he's really doing is what Boz did. And that's OK as long as he can back it up because the side affect is that he brings the Hawks along with his social media relevance.
 

lukerguy

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The three most penalized teams in the NFL are Seattle, NE, and Denver. These teams also have a propensity to blow teams out. The league like to keep games close, it's good for sales.
 

hawksfansinceday1

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lukerguy":2xa5asc9 said:
The three most penalized teams in the NFL are Seattle, NE, and Denver. These teams also have a propensity to blow teams out. The league like to keep games close, it's good for sales.
And TV ratings which equate to advertising sales, so um, yeah you're spot on.
 

NJSeahawk

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[tweet]https://twitter.com/BIrvin_WVU11/status/538390492724355072[/tweet]

Help the refs save Bruce's knees, ok?
 

theincrediblesok

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Anyone else notice that Michael Bennett has been held alot, almost every single game I can catch an o-lineman holding him. The most game I've seen him held was in the Cowboys game.
 

zhawk

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irocdave":319h2gd0 said:
Meh, I don't buy in to this theory at all. It really comes down to the NFL trying to keep games close and or guiding outcomes. That's the way I see it and have for a long time. Follow the money and it makes perfect sense. Blowouts and small market teams dominating is not good for the TV ratings. Look no further than the Hawks schedule this year and lack of prime time games for an perfect example. To many blowouts at Quest the last couple of years. Some of those BS calls in yesterdays niners game were another example of this. The Hawks should have hung 30+ on the niners. The timing of those bad calls had nothing to do with how the crowd was reacting to calls during the game.

It is what it is and teams have to overcome it.

and I for one am grateful we have the team to do it. go hawks! :th2thumbs:
 

Hawks46

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NJSeaHawk":2f95igq7 said:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/BIrvin_WVU11/status/538390492724355072[/tweet]

Help the refs save Bruce's knees, ok?

Holy crap I missed that. I just read something that a Niner fan posted about how we're such a dirty team because Britt clipped a guy from behind. Someone should send this on over to the webzone with a middle finger.

And yea, not surprising. Irvin has been getting held a LOT this year.
 

Russ Willstrong

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lvnginhwktwn":2n41z547 said:
Largent80":2n41z547 said:
hawksfansinceday1":2n41z547 said:
Or the NFL could actually hold these bozos accountable for their poor job performance by terminating them and working new guys in until they get quality people doing the job. I mean really, should Bill Leavy still be a referee?

Mike, this is my exact way to punish these turds.


This

If being a ref is your only job you're more likely to do the best you can, but if you're already a lawyer, or college professor no big if you lose your second job

Simple solution. Give refs only one uniform and for every blatant bad call the NFL takes a stripe off their uniform. When a ref has no more stripes on their shirt then they are seated as guest fans in the cheap seats.
 
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