Is Pete Carrol laying the foundation to be a HOF head coach?

irocdave · Nov 28, 2014

I know it's premature to think he is a HOF coach right now, the question is, what will it take for him to be a serious candidate?

I would think at least 1 more SB win and another 5 years of top tier defenses would be enough.

Thoughts?

Rainger · Nov 28, 2014

irocdave":2l96dhjr said:
I know it's premature to think he is a HOF coach right now, the question is, what will it take for him to be a serious candidate?

I would think at least 1 more SB win and another 5 years of top tier defenses would be enough.

Thoughts?

Don't think he will coach long enough for a proper "legacy" to get the votes. However having said that, I think he is deserving if he continues to keep the Hawks on winning ways and more championships over say another 5 years. (doubt he wants to go that long)

Lords of Scythia · Nov 28, 2014

He gets the Hawks into the playoffs this year, he's doing something that has rarely been done. He wins two SBs in a row--he is in rare HOF air.

RunTheBall · Nov 28, 2014

Depends on how the next few years go, if we 3-Peat he is absolute lock for the Hall of Fame. He would probably get in with just one more Super Bowl Win.

HawkWow · Nov 28, 2014

Lords of Scythia":kf4prl16 said:
He gets the Hawks into the playoffs this year, he's doing something that has rarely been done. He wins two SBs in a row--he is in rare HOF air.

With all respect to your post, which holds water, there are more factors involved than allowing Pete a pass because most teams don't make the post after a SB win. If one looks back at those teams since 05 (?) I believe, you see the loss of players from those teams, by no fault of those FOs. We were the youngest, 2nd youngest, whatever team to have won it all. We didn't have the old vets on the verge of retirement nor did we have a bevy of players at the end of their contracts seeking a substantial raise, resulting in their exit from the team. The ones we did have should have been paid and retained, perhaps with the exception of Tate. I say that only because none of us know with certainty the circumstances surrounding that (or)deal.

IF we do not make the play offs this year, that will be a strike against Pete, imo, and a major blow to his legacy..also IMO. Basically I'm saying decisions were made by this FO that hurt our chances of making the post and certainly of repeating. I am grateful for the championship (understatement) but this clearly had the makings of a dynasty before the Harvin deal (in particular). Bringing a reputed cancer into the locker room, then removing the leaders of the locker room allowing that cancer to manifest was absurd, reckless and IMO, negligent. Pete will have to win no less than 1 more, imo, for his name to even be casually mentioned with the likes of Parcells, Lombardi, Landry, Shula, etc.

Pete's a great guy and a damn good coach. But it's just too easy to focus on the last 2 games instead of the entirety of this somewhat disappointing campaign. Now if he pulls a rabbit out and wins with this mess he helped to create? That will get him back on track and I am certain he has learned to be damn careful what you ask for. Regardless of 2014 and even if we don't see the post, I'd make us the odds-on favorite, as of this writing, to win it all in 2015.

Lords of Scythia · Nov 28, 2014

Somebody screwed up on the Harvin thing--his reputation was well escablished and we didn't need him and it would obviously (and legitimately) aggravate Tate.

Bigbadhawk · Nov 28, 2014

Here is a list of all current NFL Hall of Fame Head Coaches:

George Allen 1966-1977
Paul Brown 1946-1962
Guy Chamberlin # 1922-1927
Jimmy Conzelman # 1921-30, 1940-42, 1946-48
Weeb Ewbank 1954-1973
Ray Flaherty # 1936-1949
Joe Gibbs 1981-1992
Sid Gillman 1955-1969, 1971-1974
Bud Grant 1967-1983, 1985
George Halas # 1920-29, 1933-42, 1946-67
Earl (Curly) Lambeau # 1919-1953
Tom Landry 1960-1988
Marv Levy 1978-1982, 1986-1997
Vince Lombardi 1959-1967, 1969
John Madden 1969-1978
Earle (Greasy) Neale 1941-1950
Chuck Noll 1969-1991
Steve Owen # 1930-1953
Bill Parcells 1983-1990, 1993-99, 2003-06
Don Shula 1963-1995
Hank Stram 1960-1974, 1976-1977
Bill Walsh 1979-1988

He is 63 years old and I believe I have heard is the 3rd oldest active head coach currently. His overall record is 79-61 for a winning % of .605 over the coarse of 8 3/4 seasons. His playoff record is 6-4 with 3 Division Championships, 1 Conference Championship, and 1 for 1 in the Super Bowl. I would say he needs at least 2 more Super Bowl appearances with at least 1 being a win.

Bigbadhawk · Nov 28, 2014

Here is a list of all current modern era head coaches and their accomplishments that were considered nominees for the HoF class of 2014. Gives you a good idea other head coaches and there struggles with HoF with what they are known for.

BILL ARNSPARGER – 1964-69 Baltimore Colts, 1970-73, 1976-1983 Miami Dolphins, 1974-76 New York Giants
Total of 20 seasons included three as head coach. Mastermind of Dolphins defense that captured six division, four conference championships and two Super Bowls. Also had one division, two conference championships and one league championship with the Colts.

DON CORYELL – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers
Revolutionized the modern passing game and led the NFL into an era of explosive offensive football. Coached teams to a 114-89-1 record and six division championships. Named 1974 Coach of the Year.

BILL COWHER – 1992-2006 Pittsburgh Steelers
A two-time NFL Coach of the Year (1992 and 2004). Led Steelers to eight division championships and a victory in Super Bowl XL. Overall record in 15 seasons: 161-99-1.

#TONY DUNGY – 1996-2001 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 2002-08 Indianapolis Colts
Suffered only one losing season in 13 years as head coach. Won six division titles, one conference championship, and one Super Bowl victory. Named to the 2000s NFL All-Decade Team.

TOM FLORES – 1979-1987 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-94 Seattle Seahawks
One of only 13 coaches who have won two or more Super Bowls. Led teams to an overall record of 105-90 record. 1982 AFC Coach of the Year, 1982.

#JON GRUDEN – 1998-2001 Oakland Raiders, 2002-08 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Compiled 100-85 overall record during 11-year career. Led teams to five division crowns, one conference championship and one Super Bowl title. Named NFL Coach of the Year by ESPN in 2002.

#MIKE HOLMGREN – 1992-98 Green Bay Packers, 1999-2008 Seattle Seahawks
Led teams to an overall 174-122 record over a 17-year career. Compiled 14 winning seasons during career including eight straight from 1992-99. Led teams to eight division titles, three conference championships and one Super Bowl win.

JIMMY JOHNSON – 1989-1993 Dallas Cowboys, 1996-99 Miami Dolphins
Helped develop the Cowboys into the team of the ‘90s. Led them to two Super Bowl titles in just five years with the team. The 1990 NFL Coach of the Year, logged an 89-68 overall record in nine total seasons.

CHUCK KNOX – 1973-77, 1992-94 Los Angeles Rams, 1978-1982 Buffalo Bills, 1983-1991 Seattle Seahawks
A three-time NFL coach of the Year and four-time conference Coach of the Year recipient. Led teams to seven division championships and 193-158-1 record in 22 seasons.

BUDDY PARKER – 1949 Chicago Cardinals, 1951-56 Detroit Lions, 1957-1964 Pittsburgh Steelers
The 1956 NFL Coach of the Year, led the Detroit Lions to back-to-back NFL championships in 1952-53. In 15 seasons as a head coach, compiled a 107-76-9 record.

RICHIE PETITBON – 1974-77 Houston Oilers, 1978-93 Washington Redskins
As Redskins defensive coordinator for 15 seasons, helped coach the team to five divisions, four conference and three Super Bowl championships.

DAN REEVES – 1981-1992 Denver Broncos, 1993-96 New York Giants, 1997-2003 Atlanta Falcons
Earned NFL Coach of the Year honors (1984, 1993, 1998) with all three teams he coached. Won six division and four conference championships. Overall record is 201-174-2.

LOU SABAN – 1960-61 Boston Patriots, 1962-65, 1972-76 Buffalo Bills, 1967-1971 Denver Broncos
Two-time AFL Coach of the Year and led the Bills to back-to-back AFL championships (1964-65). Career record after 16 seasons, 97-101-7.

MARTY SCHOTTENHEIMER – 1984-88 Cleveland Browns, 1989-1998 Kansas City Chiefs, 2001 Washington Redskins, 2002-06 San Diego Chargers
Led three teams to a total of eight division championships. Earned 2004 NFL Coach of the Year honors. Overall record in 21 seasons was 205-139-1.

CLARK SHAUGHNESSY – 1944-47 Washington Redskins, 1948-49 Los Angeles Rams, 1951-1962 Chicago Bears
Longtime assistant coach for George Halas and the Chicago Bears. Regarded as one of the greatest football minds. Devised multiple schemes on offense and defense, most notably the T-formation.

DICK VERMEIL – 1976-1982 Philadelphia Eagles, 1997-99 St. Louis Rams, 2001-05 Kansas City Chiefs
Two-time NFL Coach of the Year (1979, 1999), Led three different teams to division championships. Led Rams to Super Bowl XXXIV victory. Overall record is 126-114-0 in 15 seasons.

irocdave · Nov 28, 2014

Pete wont have the longevity, but he has established a new trend with D back size and play in the modern era. If he can draft a couple more mid round D backs and coach them to pro bowl levels he will get credit for it. Seems like the mediots never pick up on the actual coaching Pete does. Where there is smoke there's fire, theres a reason the secondary is the position group that caries this team, doesn't seem to matter who is back their. He really got short changed on winning a COTY award in 2012. I would think the Hawks will need to win two more Championships for him to have a shot. The other part that seems to be a requirement is the "coaching tree" or legacy of coaching. Gus is the only guy to leave and it's not starting out well for him. It will be interesting to see how the young coaches on the staff impact the NFL in the next 10 years. When Pete steps aside I wouldn't be surprised if Ken Norton is the successor.

HawkWow · Nov 28, 2014

Lords of Scythia":nnsjhhdf said:
Somebody screwed up on the Harvin thing--his reputation was well escablished and we didn't need him and it would obviously (and legitimately) aggravate Tate.

Yep. And at the end of the day, and I know I'm being redundant but I want to be fair, I blame JS 10 x more than Pete for the Harvin deal. Coaches want playmakers and Pete wanted Harvin before Harvin could shave. He fell in love (imo) with the concept of Harvin, overlooking the nut that wore the name Harvin on his jersey. It was JS's job, to do his job, and tell Pete "you must be out of your freaking mind". That obviously didn't happen.

HawkWow · Nov 28, 2014

Bigbadhawk":3llg0381 said:
Here is a list of all current modern era head coaches and their accomplishments that were considered nominees for the HoF class of 2014. Gives you a good idea other head coaches and there struggles with HoF with what they are known for.

BILL ARNSPARGER – 1964-69 Baltimore Colts, 1970-73, 1976-1983 Miami Dolphins, 1974-76 New York Giants
Total of 20 seasons included three as head coach. Mastermind of Dolphins defense that captured six division, four conference championships and two Super Bowls. Also had one division, two conference championships and one league championship with the Colts.

DON CORYELL – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers
Revolutionized the modern passing game and led the NFL into an era of explosive offensive football. Coached teams to a 114-89-1 record and six division championships. Named 1974 Coach of the Year.

BILL COWHER – 1992-2006 Pittsburgh Steelers
A two-time NFL Coach of the Year (1992 and 2004). Led Steelers to eight division championships and a victory in Super Bowl XL. Overall record in 15 seasons: 161-99-1.

#TONY DUNGY – 1996-2001 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 2002-08 Indianapolis Colts
Suffered only one losing season in 13 years as head coach. Won six division titles, one conference championship, and one Super Bowl victory. Named to the 2000s NFL All-Decade Team.

TOM FLORES – 1979-1987 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-94 Seattle Seahawks
One of only 13 coaches who have won two or more Super Bowls. Led teams to an overall record of 105-90 record. 1982 AFC Coach of the Year, 1982.

#JON GRUDEN – 1998-2001 Oakland Raiders, 2002-08 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Compiled 100-85 overall record during 11-year career. Led teams to five division crowns, one conference championship and one Super Bowl title. Named NFL Coach of the Year by ESPN in 2002.

#MIKE HOLMGREN – 1992-98 Green Bay Packers, 1999-2008 Seattle Seahawks
Led teams to an overall 174-122 record over a 17-year career. Compiled 14 winning seasons during career including eight straight from 1992-99. Led teams to eight division titles, three conference championships and one Super Bowl win.

JIMMY JOHNSON – 1989-1993 Dallas Cowboys, 1996-99 Miami Dolphins
Helped develop the Cowboys into the team of the ‘90s. Led them to two Super Bowl titles in just five years with the team. The 1990 NFL Coach of the Year, logged an 89-68 overall record in nine total seasons.

CHUCK KNOX – 1973-77, 1992-94 Los Angeles Rams, 1978-1982 Buffalo Bills, 1983-1991 Seattle Seahawks
A three-time NFL coach of the Year and four-time conference Coach of the Year recipient. Led teams to seven division championships and 193-158-1 record in 22 seasons.

BUDDY PARKER – 1949 Chicago Cardinals, 1951-56 Detroit Lions, 1957-1964 Pittsburgh Steelers
The 1956 NFL Coach of the Year, led the Detroit Lions to back-to-back NFL championships in 1952-53. In 15 seasons as a head coach, compiled a 107-76-9 record.

RICHIE PETITBON – 1974-77 Houston Oilers, 1978-93 Washington Redskins
As Redskins defensive coordinator for 15 seasons, helped coach the team to five divisions, four conference and three Super Bowl championships.

DAN REEVES – 1981-1992 Denver Broncos, 1993-96 New York Giants, 1997-2003 Atlanta Falcons
Earned NFL Coach of the Year honors (1984, 1993, 1998) with all three teams he coached. Won six division and four conference championships. Overall record is 201-174-2.

LOU SABAN – 1960-61 Boston Patriots, 1962-65, 1972-76 Buffalo Bills, 1967-1971 Denver Broncos
Two-time AFL Coach of the Year and led the Bills to back-to-back AFL championships (1964-65). Career record after 16 seasons, 97-101-7.

MARTY SCHOTTENHEIMER – 1984-88 Cleveland Browns, 1989-1998 Kansas City Chiefs, 2001 Washington Redskins, 2002-06 San Diego Chargers
Led three teams to a total of eight division championships. Earned 2004 NFL Coach of the Year honors. Overall record in 21 seasons was 205-139-1.

CLARK SHAUGHNESSY – 1944-47 Washington Redskins, 1948-49 Los Angeles Rams, 1951-1962 Chicago Bears
Longtime assistant coach for George Halas and the Chicago Bears. Regarded as one of the greatest football minds. Devised multiple schemes on offense and defense, most notably the T-formation.

DICK VERMEIL – 1976-1982 Philadelphia Eagles, 1997-99 St. Louis Rams, 2001-05 Kansas City Chiefs
Two-time NFL Coach of the Year (1979, 1999), Led three different teams to division championships. Led Rams to Super Bowl XXXIV victory. Overall record is 126-114-0 in 15 seasons.

Imagine what Reeves would have accomplished had he a better relationship with Elway. I've always been a huge Elway fan. Even when he was tormenting our Hawks, but Elway again played the punk in the Reeves to Shanahan (or) deal. That was Reeves team and Dan had a problem with the sometimes diva that was John Elway. Elway, for his fantastic legacy, did some harm to the league. He was one of the first to refuse the team drafting him or dictate the situation (crazy as hell back then) and then he drove a winning coach away from the team that coach assembled. Funny that later happened to Shanahan himself with another diva QB, though one much less talented.

PlinytheCenter · Nov 28, 2014

I think one additional title and 3 or 4 more years of championship-caliber play would get him in.

HawkWow · Nov 28, 2014

When you get right down to it, Pete's *accomplishments aren't really that much greater than Harbaugh's and Harbaugh will likely soon be fired. Just sayin'.

* Yes I know a championship is probably 100 x greater than an appearance but Harbuagh getting his team to the NFCCG in all 3 years of his employment is quite spectacular, imo. This year, mmmm not so much. ; )

Ad Hawk · Nov 28, 2014

HawkWow":3f5cnkpy said:
When you get right down to it, Pete's *accomplishments aren't really that much greater than Harbaugh's and Harbaugh will likely soon be fired. Just sayin'.

* Yes I know a championship is probably 100 x greater than an appearance but Harbuagh getting his team to the NFCCG in all 3 years of his employment is quite spectacular, imo. This year, mmmm not so much. ; )

Considering what each coach had to start with, I they're not even close to the same camp.

Their teams also have a legacy--Pete's looks like it will last, while Jim's won't. That tells you something about their coaching overall.

So there you go. My un-(not in-)valuable opinion.

kearly · Nov 29, 2014

IMO, Jimmy Johnson should be in the HoF. It's not his fault that Jerry Jones is a total douche. Regardess, JJ ain't in. And it's instructive. Pete's not going to get in the Hall with a short lived flourish, no matter how incredible.

I think if Pete stays in Seattle ten years and gets multiple rings, he's in. But if he won this next one and retired, no way he'd get in even with back to back titles.

MidwestHawker · Nov 29, 2014

kearly":2t7bs9gr said:
IMO, Jimmy Johnson should be in the HoF. It's not his fault that Jerry Jones is a total douche. Regardess, JJ ain't in. And it's instructive. Pete's not going to get in the Hall with a short lived flourish, no matter how incredible.

I think if Pete stays in Seattle ten years and gets multiple rings, he's in. But if he won this next one and retired, no way he'd get in even with back to back titles.

Good God. Jimmy's not in? I just assumed that he was, which was fueling my assumption that a back-to-back title win may be enough to get Pete in. That's disappointing.

-The Glove- · Nov 29, 2014

Ad Hawk":2ks5dv4z said:
HawkWow":2ks5dv4z said:

When you get right down to it, Pete's *accomplishments aren't really that much greater than Harbaugh's and Harbaugh will likely soon be fired. Just sayin'.

* Yes I know a championship is probably 100 x greater than an appearance but Harbuagh getting his team to the NFCCG in all 3 years of his employment is quite spectacular, imo. This year, mmmm not so much. ; )

Click to expand...

Considering what each coach had to start with, I they're not even close to the same camp.

Their teams also have a legacy--Pete's looks like it will last, while Jim's won't. That tells you something about their coaching overall.

So there you go. My un-(not in-)valuable opinion.

This...the thing that catapults Carroll in front of Harbaugh is complete control of a team that was in ruins. Setting a record for player transactions is no easy task unless you're a Colts fan, then you can say all it took was Luck taking the worst team to a perennial contender

RiverDog · Nov 29, 2014

At this point, IMO it would take at least 2 more Lombardis as he would need something to trump the unwritten requirement to have been an active coach for 15+ years and to negate the fact that he was fired at his two previous NFL jobs.

Tom Coughlin has two Lombardis, and he might end up losing his job this season. IMO that raises the bar somewhat.

seatownlowdown · Nov 29, 2014

interesting topic.

first of all, i honestly dont think carroll cares about getting into the HOF or what anybody thinks about him or his accomplishments. i dont think it would even cross his mind tbh. the reason for this? he lives a zen lifestyle, doenst worry about the future, and always has a unique / outside-the-box perspective on things. he doesnt get to up or down, and he stays in the moment. one of the best things about carroll is his leadership. he demonstrates an ability to have others focus on whats important, and understands that players (and people in general) will have more success if they enjoy what they are doing. i mean look, his team wont lose because lack of heart or determination. at the same time, he has players grasping his mentality and doing all kinds of postive things- like meditating. he sets goals, is patient with them, and achieves them. maybe being in the HOF is one of those goals, obviously none of us have any idea. ill im saying, its probably not high on his "care" list. hes focused on now, and what he can control.

he is a great coach, no doubting that. the minnesota vikings defenses in 88-89 were top tier. the 88 vikings defense was one of the top 25 all time and top 10 all time in pass defensive dvoa according to football outsiders (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-r ... -estimates). who was the db coach? you already know the answer!

carroll built up 2 programs from scratch: the usc trojans and the seattle seahawks. he won titles with both those teams. at usc he had a national-record 33 consecutive weeks as the associated press's #1-ranked team.

its proven that he could find and teach up talent. he and Schneider have taken fliers on multiple low round draft picks and ufa and helped make some of them all-pro level players. do any of u honestly believe that harbaugh could see the talent in sherman and baldwin? harbaugh had nothing good to say to teams/scouts when they came asking about those 2 players. and do any of u honestly believe sherman and baldwin (just examples) would be as accomplished without carroll giving them the opportunity and teaching, and patience they needed?

seatownlowdown · Nov 29, 2014

HawkWow":3q5h6hq7 said:
When you get right down to it, Pete's *accomplishments aren't really that much greater than Harbaugh's and Harbaugh will likely soon be fired. Just sayin'.

* Yes I know a championship is probably 100 x greater than an appearance but Harbuagh getting his team to the NFCCG in all 3 years of his employment is quite spectacular, imo. This year, mmmm not so much. ; )

you know, i think you should look at the roster harbaugh inherited in 2011 and reevaluate your perspective. carrolls accomplishments are far greater than harbaughs... simply because he has accomplishments to actually speak of!!! and no, i dont think 3 nfc championship appearances are accomplishments (close but no cigar buddy!), especially not with what he inherited. harbaugh hasnt really made anybody a star either, imo (please dont even say andrew luck). the quote unquote stars on the 49ers were already there when he got there. if anything, theyve regressed.

harbaugh burns out people around him, and also has no control over his players. more arrests than any franchise the last 3 years. above reproach? lies. hes also proving that hes no qb whisperer and that he cant make tough decisions (improve his offensive gameplan). yes, he should have an accomplishment or 2, but he blew it bigtime vs the lesser ravens in 2012. first his team comes out completely lost and sluggish. after the lights go out, his team makes a surge. at the end of game, when it mattered most it was 1st and goal at the 2 yard line, and they dont get in... and his brother earns that ''accomplishment''. i honestly think its more of harbaugh choking at this point than i do kaepernick. kaepernick is who he is, which is a weapon running with the ball, but ineffective in the pocket. kaepernicks not calling the plays, setting up the gameplan, nor is he the head coach. harbaugh needs to help his young qb and call timeout at the end of the 2013 nfc championship game. he let him fail. everytime carroll and harbaugh have gone to head to head the last 3 seasons, harbaugh has gotten outcoached. and its not even close.

carroll will make tough personnel decisions. look at matt flynn, percy harvin, browner... etc. the list goes on. harbaugh doesnt even know what his qbs best traits are.

RiverDog":3q5h6hq7 said:
At this point, IMO it would take at least 2 more Lombardis as he would need something to trump the unwritten requirement to have been an active coach for 15+ years and to negate the fact that he was fired at his two previous NFL jobs.

Tom Coughlin has two Lombardis, and he might end up losing his job this season. IMO that raises the bar somewhat.

i honestly dont think so though. if hes super effective in a short span, who cares how long he coached? and there are plenty of coaches that have gotten fired after having won a superbowl only a few years before. heres a list http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foo ... -got-fired

there are coaches with crappy overall records in the HOF. it comes down to multiple variables i believe, with titles obviously being the key one. i think carrolls already impacted the NFL so much that hes changed the way the game is played today. both offensively, and defensively. thats something the panel will look at too, imo, 7-10 years or so down the road when its time... in what type of legacy did he leave?

to me 1 more superbowl gets him in at this point, but as i said, i dont think hes the least worried about the HOF

Is Pete Carrol laying the foundation to be a HOF head coach?

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