Cool side story this game: Bobby Wagner vs Mychal Kendricks

Some of you may remember the 2012 draft and watching the war room video feed during the second round. The Hawks' need at LB was no secret at that time. 1 pick before the Hawks at pick 46 was Philly, who took Mychal Kendricks from Cal. I distinctly remember seeing the staff in the war room look seriously deflated after that pick. It was discussed by a bunch of other posters on here at the time. Carroll surely knew Kendricks pretty well and he was a freak athlete. Total Seahawk type of pick.

So they don't get him and take Bobby Wagner at 47. We all know know that a healthy Wagner is arguably one of the top 2 or 3 MLBs in the game. Kendricks is no slouch either when healthy. He is a good player.

I have little doubt that the Seahawks would have taken Kendricks over Wagner at the time if given the chance but we will never know. I am looking for Wagner to have a huge game this sunday, whether or not he knows or cares about Kendricks. I'm glad things worked out the way they did.

Mychal Kendricks is a beast. He's better in pass coverage than Wagner, but Bobby is much stronger against the run. Both have battled injuries this year. Both are tackling machines inside. Wager is the better player for our defense.

hawknation2014":1hk6ggt3 said:

Mychal Kendricks is a beast. He's better in pass coverage than Wagner, but Bobby is much stronger against the run. Both have battled injuries this year. Both are tackling machines inside. Wager is the better player for our defense.

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I don't think you can say that Kendricks is better in coverage. What are you basing that off of?

Wagner
starts- 36, total tackles- 328, sacks- 8, INT- 5, PD- 13,
Kendricks
starts - 36, total tackles- 235, sacks- 8, INT- 3, PD- 15

Their stats are similar expect the tackle totals, Bobby is much more productive in that area.
I would agree that health has been an issue with these guys.

I wouldn't trade Wagner for anyone else in that draft class, Kendricks, Lavonte David, or Luke Kuechly.

However, all these guys are really productive. What a great LBer class the 2012 draft class was.

The real intrigue was in round 3, when the Eagles we're all set to take Mr Wilson. They figured "no way would the Seahawks pick Wilson, they just signed Matt Flynn".

Point? Without signing Flynn there's no Wilson and no SB.

jlwaters1":1aya65n7 said:

hawknation2014":1aya65n7 said:

Mychal Kendricks is a beast. He's better in pass coverage than Wagner, but Bobby is much stronger against the run. Both have battled injuries this year. Both are tackling machines inside. Wager is the better player for our defense.

Click to expand...

I don't think you can say that Kendricks is better in coverage. What are you basing that off of?

Wagner
starts- 36, total tackles- 328, sacks- 8, INT- 5, PD- 13,
Kendricks
starts - 36, total tackles- 235, sacks- 8, INT- 3, PD- 15

Their stats are similar expect the tackle totals, Bobby is much more productive in that area.
I would agree that health has been an issue with these guys.

I wouldn't trade Wagner for anyone else in that draft class, Kendricks, Lavonte David, or Luke Kuechly.

However, all these guys are really productive. What a great LBer class the 2012 draft class was.

Click to expand...

I should have said 'slightly better.' They're pretty similar in coverage with Kendricks looking a little more fluid dropping back and a little more active in getting his hands on the ball. Kendricks had three INTs last year. He has two more passes defended this year on 26 fewer cover snaps than Bobby. Both have allowed a reception every 13.4 cover snaps, which is excellent for inside backers. Kendricks has been the Eagles' best LB in coverage this year. In fact, he is the only LB on that team with a positive coverage grade on PFF (+4.2).

pehawk":3mhfvx4o said:

The real intrigue was in round 3, when the Eagles we're all set to take Mr Wilson. They figured "no way would the Seahawks pick Wilson, they just signed Matt Flynn".
Point? Without signing Flynn there's no Wilson and no SB.

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Touche! I'm sure you're right about that. An unexpected reason to be thankful for the Flynn signing, three years downstream.

I'm happy things turned out the way they did. Bobby is one of my favorite guys on this team.

hawknation2014":28m7ma2t said:

jlwaters1":28m7ma2t said:

hawknation2014":28m7ma2t said:

Mychal Kendricks is a beast. He's better in pass coverage than Wagner, but Bobby is much stronger against the run. Both have battled injuries this year. Both are tackling machines inside. Wager is the better player for our defense.

Click to expand...

I don't think you can say that Kendricks is better in coverage. What are you basing that off of?

Wagner
starts- 36, total tackles- 328, sacks- 8, INT- 5, PD- 13,
Kendricks
starts - 36, total tackles- 235, sacks- 8, INT- 3, PD- 15

Their stats are similar expect the tackle totals, Bobby is much more productive in that area.
I would agree that health has been an issue with these guys.

I wouldn't trade Wagner for anyone else in that draft class, Kendricks, Lavonte David, or Luke Kuechly.

However, all these guys are really productive. What a great LBer class the 2012 draft class was.

Click to expand...

I should have said 'slightly better.' They're pretty similar in coverage with Kendricks looking a little more fluid dropping back and a little more active in getting his hands on the ball. Kendricks had three INTs last year. He has two more passes defended this year on 26 fewer cover snaps than Bobby. Both have allowed a reception every 13.4 cover snaps, which is excellent for inside backers. Kendricks has been the Eagles' best LB in coverage this year. In fact, he is the only LB on that team with a positive coverage grade on PFF (+4.2).

Click to expand...

That's the stat I was looking for. Yup, both look really evenly matched. I love me some Wagner, but it's tough to say I wouldn't take him over Kuechly, Kendricks or David. All 3 are great players and David and Kuechly haven't been as injured. I think all of them but David would be great fits for our defense.

jlwaters1":6vt0gnzz said:

I wouldn't trade Wagner for anyone else in that draft class, Kendricks, Lavonte David, or Luke Kuechly.

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I'm a HUGE Wagner fan. He's obviously a major difference maker for us, and one of the most talented LBs in the game.

Lavonte David isn't really a fair comparison because he's playing OLB. Really though, if you could choose between Wagner and David's impact on the game, Lavonte David right now is a step up from Wagner. Obviously apples to oranges, though.

You know the Seahawks would trade Bruce Irvin for Lavonte David in a heartbeat.

HansGruber":2pauyhm8 said:

jlwaters1":2pauyhm8 said:

I wouldn't trade Wagner for anyone else in that draft class, Kendricks, Lavonte David, or Luke Kuechly.

Click to expand...

I'm a HUGE Wagner fan. He's obviously a major difference maker for us, and one of the most talented LBs in the game.

Lavonte David isn't really a fair comparison because he's playing OLB. Really though, if you could choose between Wagner and David's impact on the game, Lavonte David right now is a step up from Wagner. Obviously apples to oranges, though.

You know the Seahawks would trade Bruce Irvin for Lavonte David in a heartbeat.

Click to expand...

I'm not so sure. As a OLB David is clearly better than Irvin at this point (no surprise). However, Irvin offers great value as edge rusher/ OLB combo. David isn't as versatile, IMO. I think Irvin is really playing well this year, and am excited to see his progression throughout the next year or two.

I was very big into MLB prospects in that draft and Wagner was my clear cut #1 simple because he was much more physical at the POA than Keuchly or Kendricks, who generally avoided blocks to make tackles. Wagner was the lone LB in the entire draft who had the potential to be an all encompassing MLB that exceeded in every category. I never saw Kendricks as a MLB. Not once. He's destined to be a WLB his entire career. I didn't much care for Kuechly in a Hawk uniform either because he literally gives ground to make tackles. Sure, he makes a lot of them, but the difference between 2nd and 7 and 2nd and 3 is enormous and in the Hawks system the MLB is responsible for an A gap, which is absolutely not Kuechly's strength (POA).

I had a feeling we could get Wagner in the 2nd and when Philly was picking the only thing I was worried about is them picking Wagner. I would have liked to get Kendricks to play WLB next to him, but up until this season, our own WLB play has exceeded Kendricks' quality of play. Kendricks hasn't been all that impressive up until late last year and like Malcolm Smith, he still to this day misses too many tackles.

KPL looks like he can exceed the play of Kendricks, Malcolm Smith, and possibly even KJ at WLB.

For those that will reply to this saying that Kendricks is an ILB in a 3-4, he plays on the weak side of that 3-4 (WILB) essentially the same as we use our own WLB in the 4-3 Under so it's moot.

Even if Wagner played WLB he would play it better than Kendricks, but Kendricks couldn't be even close to the true Mike that Wagner is if he played MLB. It's just not even close.

KJ and Kendricks essentially play the same position and would be a better "vs" conversation. Kendricks is just flat out not as good as Wagner at anything.

I haven't watched Kendricks since college, but I remember him being more of a sideline to sideline run stopper than a pass defender (he seemed competent vs. the pass, but his main calling card was his damage limitation ability in the open field). Totally possible that's changed since. I had almost the opposite review for Wagner, who was a very sound player that sometimes struggled with mental errors vs. the run, and was solid in zone, but flippin' awesome in man coverage. Wagner was the most boring player I ever 'scouted', in part because he was so good in man coverage that he did a lot of it and was basically never thrown at. He was also a very good blitzer back then, and he still is today.

I feel like the Utah State Wagner was the same guy for Seattle in 2012 and 2013. But this year's Wagner is far improved vs. the run, to the point where I have no issue at all with him getting pro-bowl consideration.

In part, I could see how someone might think that Wagner was boring to watch in college. He's extremely calculated even in his college tapes. Against the run, he doesn't open up and run until he's diagnosed and is still that way. He'll strafe very much under control and willingly engage with an OL because he has those almost 33" arms and the strength to keep OL off of him. The vast majority of LBs in general will look to avoid said blockers generally by attempting to go around them, usually with bi-polar results. It could be a splash play that makes them look good or it could take the LB drastically out of their gap assignment thus giving up a big run.

What really loved about Wagner (and Hightower) was that both were capable and even disciplined in maintaining that gap. Not just out of pure mindset, but because they were the few (the only ones in that draft, actually) were COULD do it. In a defense like Carolina the LBs are very much protected by the DTs that used a lot of resources to get. In SEA, the MLB does not have that luxury. He will own an A gap and so in my scouting I had to put a big precedent on that aspect of the scoutee's game. There's a story about Tatupu being excited about playing for Pete again. That excitement only lasted up until he found out that he'd still be responsible for an A gap and would not be protected. That said, I couldn't, with any sanity, consider Kuechly (who would thankfully be gone by then anyway) or Kendricks for the job. Also, the choice between Wagner and Hightower was also an easy one because Wagner is a much, much more explosive athlete.

What I don't see, however, is any notion that Wagner was deficient in run defense.

http://www.thefootballeducator.com/impa ... stics-nfl/



IMO, only Bowman has been on par with him in run defense since Wagner came into the league.

It's a cute story, sure, and at the time, I was much higher on Kendricks than BWags. Now though, I think he's become a core player, playing at a pro bowl level, and I'd love to see him locked up. He plays with such good gap discipline. In the SF game, everybody was playing their gaps so solidly... Irvin, Wags, KJ. The run game was shut down so perfectly. It was beautiful.

In 2012, I was in the Kendricks/David camp until vin.couve opened my eyes to Wagner pre-draft and jumped on his bandwagon.

I think also think he's a more well-rounded than Luke K.

I actually love our LBing corps.

They'll obviously pay Wagner and probably let Wright and Smith walk.

I also think they'll sign Avril long-term because he and Michael Bennett are developing an elite pass-rush bond.

And frankly I think Irvin's move to LBer was the plan because the LEO needs to be part LBer/part DE. But also feel Irvin is on the verge of being the elite SLB everyone wanted in Curry. Julian Peterson status if you will. And I also feel they've been taking his development slowly and when he re-signs he'll come much cheaper at an OLB price tag than a DE one.

Also, if Wright leaves and KPL takes over, man all that speed at the LB position with him, Wagz, and Irvin is going to be awesome.

Frankly, speaking when this LB Corps his healthy and at its best, I feel its the best group I've seen play for the Seahawks (note I became a fan in 1997)

But the current group now is better than Peterson-Tatupu-Hill group.

If we do let KJ leave then depth becomes a concern. You'd want to see Coyle take a big step forward, which I think he will. Also Mike Morgan becomes more involved and I think that's fine. Give him some reps at WLB as well as SLB next year. I'd probably also ask Schofield to drop some weight and start taking reps at SLB as well. He's shown he can play it before. Dropping from 260 to 250 would be easier on his knee anyway.

But beyond that?

Maybe see if you can get Horace Miller back. Probably have to take a draft pick on a player who you might think can play both WLB and MLB and you also have to bring in more UDFAs. Maybe load the position and weed them out early.

I'm OK with letting KJ and Malcolm leave, STRICTLY FINANCIALLY SPEAKING, but it also stretches the Hawks thin and would need to be properly addressed, depth wise.

I would like to resign both Wagner and wright, but IMO there's no question who the priority is,,, it's bobby Wagner.. He's an elite mlb, those are hard to find.. If we could resign kj for a modest deal I'd do it - like 4 years 16 million.