Signing Bonus Max, with re: to Russ

rain7

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I was thinking, are there any rules around max signing bonus relative to overall contract?

Can the Hawks pay Russ a *signing* bonus of say 50 mill? Keep in mind, I'm not talking guaranteed money, I'm specifically saying signing bonus. Day 1, 50 mill in your account.

The reason I ask is, if russ got a signing bonus of 50 mill - he gets that state-tax-free and has the ability to invest that immediately, in other words, getting that money today vs 3-5 years from now means an extra 5 mill in his pocket per year assuming he invests most of it. Over the course of a 5 year contract, thats another 25 mill. He gets that signing bonus and starts off with a 5 mill salary, it seems reasonable?

It seems that this would be cap friendly in the short and long term and with the ability to set himself for life (and then some), perhaps he'd take a discount on the overall contract number.

Normally, doing this would be crazy because folks would fear the guy would let off the gas or perhaps get injured - and have it affect his play long term, but it seems that Russ would be at relatively low risk for both.

Just curious, not sure if anyone has insight into how contracts can be structured.
 

Cartire

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rain7":te47m5gx said:
I was thinking, are there any rules around max signing bonus relative to overall contract?

Can the Hawks pay Russ a *signing* bonus of say 50 mill? Keep in mind, I'm not talking guaranteed money, I'm specifically saying signing bonus. Day 1, 50 mill in your account.

The reason I ask is, if russ got a signing bonus of 50 mill - he gets that state-tax-free and has the ability to invest that immediately, in other words, getting that money today vs 3-5 years from now means an extra 5 mill in his pocket per year assuming he invests most of it. Over the course of a 5 year contract, thats another 25 mill. He gets that signing bonus and starts off with a 5 mill salary, it seems reasonable?

It seems that this would be cap friendly in the short and long term and with the ability to set himself for life (and then some), perhaps he'd take a discount on the overall contract number.

Normally, doing this would be crazy because folks would fear the guy would let off the gas or perhaps get injured - and have it affect his play long term, but it seems that Russ would be at relatively low risk for both.

Just curious, not sure if anyone has insight into how contracts can be structured.

The entire signing bonus gets evenly distributed throughout the length of the contract. So I dont know exactly how it would be "Cap Friendly".

Otherwise, you are correct, it would be awesome for him as he could start investing that early.
 
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rain7

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Cap friendly because he gets his money now and assuming he gives a break because it.

As an example:
If i were to give you a choice of a million bucks paid to you immediately, or 1.25 mill in 5 years - which would you take?

From a pure salary cap perspective, 1.25 is worse then 1, but to the player(and anyone who has basically money management skills) - 1 mill is the better choice.

The way I see it, you cold easily save 15-20% on the life of a contract *if* there weren't rules stopping it and the team was willing to risk the up front investment.
 

Pandion Haliaetus

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It makes sense.

Everbody is assuming Russ will make 20+ a year and have every right to considering other contracts. But its also possible that he could take less than what he deserves to help the Seahawks keep talent around him... and I think that is something that will go over well in the lockerooms as well.

For example, let's say he signs a 4 year, 80 mil extenstion.

We'll say 40 mil SB, 8 mill in roster bonuses, 24 million in guaranteed base, and 8 mil in peromance based pay escalators.

Its essentially a 5 yr, 80 mill deal or 16 m per year. But no matter what he's guaranteed 60 m. He probably won't be cut , so he'll see that other 8 mil in RB = 68m pretty much guaranteed.

First year of his contract will be 8m + whatever he makes in the final year of rookie deal.

Then you can pretty much distribute the rest of the 70m evenly.

8 SB + 2 RB + 6 BS + 2 m PBS

= 16-18 m per

So like OP said he gets that 40 mil up front , then he's pretty much guaranteed another 32 mil in 5 years. He'll probably be the next big commercial QB of the NFL along with Luck once all the old timers retire.

I bet he already makes around $10 mil in endorsements already, 2 years from now especially after winning another SB that could double.

So if Russell Wilson after his first contract his up, with the right investments/endorsements.... Wilson could easily be worth an upward of $140 million before he's 32.

Another 5-8 years in the NFL with his money in the right places he could retire with 300 to 350 mil in his pocket.
 

Hawknballs

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I've been saying for a while now that I wouldn't be surprised if Wilson ends up doing something unorthodox with his contract. He's smart, and knows he needs a team to win. He has had no problem saying he wants to be the greatest of all time. He also recently let a very well respected traditional agent go.

I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of deal that is all or nearly fully guaranteed with a high signing bonus of up front money. I'm no expert on contracts and what is or isn't allowable, but having the richest owner and a QB like wilson who's proved durable and consistent makes things flexible.

for example, 6 years 72M total, 60M guaranteed with a 60M signing bonus.

it would only be 12M against the cap each year, wilson would get 60M in his pocket and he's the kind of guy that will invest that cash and end up making money on it in the long run. In the end he'd probably make more money than if he'd signed a traditional tony-romo style 6 year 108M contract where less is guaranteed and less is given up front, and the team would have the cap room to keep things together as well as having a very predictable cap situation.

this is all just wishful thinking and only an extreme example of what could happen, but I wouldn't be surprised to see things with his contract turn out to be a little unorthodox. I don't expect he will take a pay cut/home town discount, etc. . . but I also wouldnt be surprised to see some outside the box thinking with his deal.
 

lsheldon

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A player does not get a Prorated Bonus (also called a signing bonus) all up front. This is the information on those bonuses from overthecap.com. The entire salary cap info spelled out on this page is a pretty good read if you have time to kill.

Here: http://overthecap.com/a-guide-to-the-nfl-salary-cap/

Prorated Bonus

I saved this for last because it is the money that seems to cause the most confusion when people look at the cap. For the most part prorated money is what is referred to as a signing bonus in the press. It is essentially a lump sum bonus that is considered paid out when a contract is signed or an option invoked, though in reality the payout occurs over a period of time. Now there are a number of less used prorated bonuses such as completion bonuses, fully guaranteed roster bonuses, bonuses when signed during a season, etc…but for this discussion we just are interested in those basic signing or option bonuses.

For those of us who have ever taken an accounting course think of this money as a depreciation schedule on an asset. If you have no accounting knowledge maybe think of it like buying a car in that your personal expense comes over the 5 years you are paying off the car loan. The league looks at each player as an asset with a maximum working life of 5 years for every prorated bonus paid. Prorated money is split over the course of the contract or 5 years, whichever is less, in equal installments. So if you have a player with a 6 year contract that begins in 2013 and you pay him a signing bonus of $20 million he will carry an expense of $4 million in each year from 2013-2017 from the bonus. There will be no expense in 2018 because that is beyond 5 years. If it’s a 3 year deal with a $9 million bonus the expense is $3 million per year because now the limit is 3 seasons rather than 5.

When you hear of an option bonus normally it means a bonus paid out in the second year of the contract, though sometimes it can be as late as the third or fourth year. That starts the clock over on the working life. So in the case of the 6 year deal an option bonus paid in 2014 will extend all the way out to 2018. So if its a $5 million bonus that’s an extra $1 million per year. The prorated bonus portion of the players salary now includes the $4 million from the first bonus and $1 million from the second bonus, giving him a full charge of $5 million per year from 2014-2017 and $1 million in 2018.

In general what we are talking about here is the ability to “buy now but pay later” from a salary cap perspective. What happens is the team and player agree on a contract value. Lets assume the sides decide he has to earn $21 million in the first 3 years of a 5 year deal worth $33 million total. Now the team could simply pay him $7 million a year in P5 salary, which would leave the team with cap charges of $7 million per year, but what if team is really strapped for cap space. Their other option is to pay him $15 million in a signing bonus, prorated at $3 million per year, and then pay the rest of the $21 million as base salary. Pretend its $1 million in 2013, $2 million in 2014, and $3 million in 2015. Our new cap charges are $4 million, $5 million, and $6 million a huge savings on our team salary cap. This is why you hear of teams, and the Jets will likely be one of them in 2013, converting base salary into a guaranteed bonus. All is well in the world when we do this until we come across what we call “dead money”.
 

hawknation2014

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It's probably not workable. The first year of the contract will need to be relatively low, increasingly incrementally with the presumptive increase in the salary cap. $40 million prorated over five years is $8 million per year. Something close to Aaron Rodgers' $33 million signing bonus might work, assuming he keeps his base salary of ~$800k.
 

QuahHawk

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His signing bonus will be huge. He didn't hire a baseball agent for nothing be want the guarenteed money. Thats what it is all about and Wilson will get it.
 

Hawks46

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You have to look at certain things from Wilson's standpoint.

I would theorize that he wouldn't want a ton of money up front, unless his divorce is final. He's going to give a lot of that up if he gets it while still getting a divorce.

As for the signing bonus not being subject to state tax, none of his contract should be taxed; there is no state personal income tax.

i don't think he's going for a max deal, but he's not taking 16 mil/year like some are hoping for. I'd like to see 20/mil a year with a decent amount of guaranteed money to offset the lower yearly salary.
 

Mick063

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Here is the pattern I have seen in the past.

Sign the QB to a huge contract. It soothes the ego of the agent. He needs the reputation for future clients. It makes the QB feel appreciated. The press will trumpet the big salary.

After a 2-4 of years, ask the QB to renegotiate to open up cap space. The QB understands that winning might require sacrifice.

I have seen this happen time after time. I don't expect a discount until all of the egos are soothed. Generally the salaries escalate. On a legit contender, everyone knows that the QB probably won't see the top end salary of the final year or two. The contenders on the cusp of a championship nearly always renegotiate to open up cap space to put the team over the top.

The agent, the QB, the team all know this at the time they sign. The initial contract is about perception. The renegotiation is about winning. Almost every current big name QB has done this.
 

mikeak

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OP - where do I get 10% guaranteed in my money? P2P lending?

Seriously - I do like the idea and you are in to a different thing which you may or may not have realized

You mention that signing bonus is tax free

Salary is NOT

Games on the road are subject to income tax in states where they play
 

seeg

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Hawks46":q2xct4md said:
You have to look at certain things from Wilson's standpoint.

I would theorize that he wouldn't want a ton of money up front, unless his divorce is final. He's going to give a lot of that up if he gets it while still getting a divorce.

Money earned after the date of separation is usually considered separate property absent a pre-nup or community property agreement changing the character of the property. Having said that, the court may consider all property of the parties when dividing property and if one party is sitting on a pile of separate property (or money) it's not unusual for a judge to consider that in making a property distribution, i.e. giving the disadvantaged spouse a greater portion of the community assets or, yes, even some portion of the separate property.
 
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