SalishHawkFan
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Word reaching the media about Patriots fumble stats
- Thread starter SalishHawkFan
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Rocket
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PowerDebunk...
Sez who? Who are Gregory J. Matthews and Michael Lopez and why are they credible.
Pony up there, Bucko - why should I believe Greg and Mike?
Sez who? Who are Gregory J. Matthews and Michael Lopez and why are they credible.
Pony up there, Bucko - why should I believe Greg and Mike?
rideaducati
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Rocket":3kozc04s said:
Because they're Patriot fans and they think the story is hocus pocus with numbers... But they also say their fandom has absolutely NOTHING to do with why they believe what they do.
Marlin Man
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Funny, we hear nothing tick tick tick
Rocket
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What the hell does this mean - from the Debunkers.
"But statistics is hard, and this can lead to deception, either willful or otherwise."
"hard" ??
So they passed math class... so what. I was academically taught how to debunk stats, and the best way is by debunking the graph. The issue ain't the graph design, the numbers are the numbers.
"But statistics is hard, and this can lead to deception, either willful or otherwise."
"hard" ??
So they passed math class... so what. I was academically taught how to debunk stats, and the best way is by debunking the graph. The issue ain't the graph design, the numbers are the numbers.
morgulon1
Well-known member
If the Patriots fumble a couple of times I think we'll know why and Rog God will HAVE to do something.
Who am I kidding?
Who am I kidding?
Hmm, kiddo... where have I seen that used? Mods, mind comparing IPs to the banned list?PowerRun":2kh3zert said:
TBtoRG":2kh3zert said:
Wasn't this guy banned? I mean, what are the odds of every knuckle dragging pats fan using the term, "kiddo"?
A
Anonymous
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Heat Equation??
SnoCoHawk
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PowerRun":23u77tmb said:
That's not much of a debunking. They even admit that the Patriots have the fewest fumbles in the league by far, but that it's just not as bad as the other guy's statistics because he used "plays per fumble" and they use "fumbles per play". They offer no real explanation for the discrepancy other than the tired old "Because the Pats are just better at football". I thought the tongue-in-cheek suggestion that Giselle, who Tom started dating in 2007, might have something to do with it was at least amusing.
PowerRun":2luey94u said:
Actually your own source doesn't really say that. At best it questions the initial analysis (but doesn't say that it's completely off base...in fact it says the opposite of that), and suggests that the difference isn't as extreme as was first reported. It doesn't provide vindications for the Patriots. Here is a money quote from your own source:
So your "debunkers" aren't saying that there isn't an effect here. They merely dispute the size of it and how statistically significant it is.
ivotuk
Well-known member
LOL! From that "debunk" article
"Of course, perhaps their players are just more well-versed in recovering deflated footballs."
"Of course, perhaps their players are just more well-versed in recovering deflated footballs."
DohBoy
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These trolls are cherry picking media posts "debunking" the obvious relationship between the Patriots, rule changes and fumble frequency. None of them have looked at the data with an open mind, none of them have shelved their bias. It's really rich, because if the Jets or Dolphins were doing this, these same Pats fans would be filling their Huggies.
It you really look at their behavior, it's reminiscent of the anti-vaccine or climate change myth folks. They've made up their minds before thoroughly vetting the situation, they spend countless hours "researching on the internet" and they only support conclusions that confirm their preconceived notions. At best, their biases easily illustrate them to reasonable people as desperate fans; at worst, they fall prey to conspiracy theories...and look like utter cranks.
The Pats fumble far less...many standard deviations less...than the average NFL team. They are such an outlier that "good coaching" and "technique" do not explain the startling difference. But the thing is, you don't have to have a PhD in physics or statistics to see that the Pats cheat. Reasonable people with no axe to grind know what's going on in that organization; as Potter Stewart said (inre pornography), "I know it when I see it."
Everybody sees it...
It you really look at their behavior, it's reminiscent of the anti-vaccine or climate change myth folks. They've made up their minds before thoroughly vetting the situation, they spend countless hours "researching on the internet" and they only support conclusions that confirm their preconceived notions. At best, their biases easily illustrate them to reasonable people as desperate fans; at worst, they fall prey to conspiracy theories...and look like utter cranks.
The Pats fumble far less...many standard deviations less...than the average NFL team. They are such an outlier that "good coaching" and "technique" do not explain the startling difference. But the thing is, you don't have to have a PhD in physics or statistics to see that the Pats cheat. Reasonable people with no axe to grind know what's going on in that organization; as Potter Stewart said (inre pornography), "I know it when I see it."
Everybody sees it...
RichNhansom
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That's pretty comical. Trying to debunk statistics by over glorifying more statistics.
You don't need to be a professor to figure this one out. Sometimes the simplest answer is the right one. That is the case here. The sample size and trends are more than large enough to debunk anomalies and the numbers are simple just like the answer.
The patriots deflated balls so they would be easier to hand onto as well as would bounce less on times the ball his the ground. Smoke and mirrors are not making this go away just like your desire for it to.
You don't need to be a professor to figure this one out. Sometimes the simplest answer is the right one. That is the case here. The sample size and trends are more than large enough to debunk anomalies and the numbers are simple just like the answer.
The patriots deflated balls so they would be easier to hand onto as well as would bounce less on times the ball his the ground. Smoke and mirrors are not making this go away just like your desire for it to.
Indeed short of Pats fans themselves (some of whom clearly seem to be having trouble being objective), Seahawk fans have the last reason to worry or even care about deflate-gate, and have perhaps the least dog in this fight. Near as I can tell most Seahawk fans initially thought this was a silly story...and if the Pats did do it, then it was stupid because there was no way given the disparity between the Pats and Colts that the Pats would have won the game even if they had been given cinder-blocks for footballs. Mostly (at least initially), at least near as I could tell as a 'hawk fan was 'better them than us for such a silly distraction'.
It's the Pats themselves (and esp Belicheck, Brady, and now Kraft) acting like the three stooges along with more and more fairly damning circumstantial evidence that has convinced most of the country that the Pats were "up to no good" [which by no means means that the country likes the 'hawks....they don't by and large]. Given that the Pats had been caught before and given their past reputation, why is anyone suprised that the Pats aren't given much benefit of the doubt?
If anything the NFL is bending backwards in helping the Pats by making sure that nothing will happen until well after the superbowl....which is fine by me. I don't want to here any whining from Boston and no excuses when the Pats lose.
It's the Pats themselves (and esp Belicheck, Brady, and now Kraft) acting like the three stooges along with more and more fairly damning circumstantial evidence that has convinced most of the country that the Pats were "up to no good" [which by no means means that the country likes the 'hawks....they don't by and large]. Given that the Pats had been caught before and given their past reputation, why is anyone suprised that the Pats aren't given much benefit of the doubt?
If anything the NFL is bending backwards in helping the Pats by making sure that nothing will happen until well after the superbowl....which is fine by me. I don't want to here any whining from Boston and no excuses when the Pats lose.
Sarlacc83
Active member
Patriot fan posts article where statistician complains that you can make stats say anything.
Then proceeds to prove it by making stats sya what he wants. Notice they didn't combine the rush + pass and compare it to the league average. Wonder why?
Then proceeds to prove it by making stats sya what he wants. Notice they didn't combine the rush + pass and compare it to the league average. Wonder why?
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