Did Carroll get outcoached at the end?

There are some who think Belichick outcoached Carroll at the end. He put in his goal-line package against the Seahawks' trips personnel -- almost goading them to throw (which they did). By not calling a time-out, he put Carroll in a position to make a decision with only one timeout left and the clock ticking down. If they called a run, and didn't get in, they would likely have called a timeout, and would also have forced Seattle to try at least one pass play on 3rd/4th down.

I'm not 100% sure if I'm sold on that theory, but it's reasonable.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that. Bill took a chance, man. And it paid off. He's got balls.

I don't know what other package the Pats could have called. Why not call a goalline package on the one yard line?

It wasn't a brilliant coaching decision. And if the Hawks run like they are supposed to, Bill looks like an idiot for not calling time out when the Hawks score.

It was just common sense to call a goalline package and try to make them throw. And it was dumb to not call a timeout.

Bevell and Pete overthought it.

I think that's way overthinking it. They went goal line thinking we were going to run with Lynch which any sane OC would have called.

If anything, we bailed Belichick out because if we scored there and they didn't call their timeout to stop the clock, they likely wasted a lot of time and thus a chance to get in field goal range after the score.

I think both coaches coached poorly on that final drive. BB should have used his timeouts because we should have scored and he needed more time to get into field goal range (or perhaps get a TD). If we call a read option giving Wilson the option to hand it to Lynch, run it in himself, or pull up and throw to an open receiver or even out of bounds if nothing was open, we likely score and today everyone is saying what an idiot BB was for leaving no time on the clock. Even if we don't score we were down to one timeout and he still could have ran the clock out on us. Bad clock management by BB and bad play calling by us.

The absolutely out coached all around nit just Carroll. How do you go in with a 10 point lead in the 4th And.. lose with that defense? They gave up 14 points. Maxwell and Simon I am sorry you guys are just pedestrian at best. Lane better learn to shut his mouth too.
Atlanta, good luck with Quinn. You saw how ugly it got. He made no adjustments in the second half. I only remember seeing michael Bennett as being effective. He needs to be more creative on defense. Atlanta Falcons doesn't have any of the athletes Seattle has on D. Good luck with vanilla cover 3 down there.

If the play goes incomplete then Carroll/Bevell then have enough time to run two more plays of anything they want - including two run plays. If they don't run a pass play then if it gets stopped they will likely only get one more run play and that's it.

A quick slant is a low risk play. RW could have thrown the ball better (threw it at Lockette's body rather than leading him as much as he did, and/or threw it lower) but ultimately Butler made a great play...he did his homework and made an outstanding read, reaction and willed it his way.

A quick slant to the end zone against a rookie CB...I think you take that match up most of the time if you can. Its a bread and butter play that we make 7/10 times, with incompletions almost every other time. Not a horrible call...just bad luck, slightly poor execution and a great play.

Nah, we overthunk it.

Went for the ideal scenario of clock management rather than focusing on just securing the points with the best matchup.

I think we just lost the forest for the trees and out thought ourselves.

We also were playing for fourth down when probably 2 tries would have been sufficient.

TDOTSEAHAWK":2fd6ftwz said:

Nah, we overthunk it.

Went for the ideal scenario of clock management rather than focusing on just securing the points with the best matchup.

I think we just lost the forest for the trees and out thought ourselves.

We also were playing for fourth down when probably 2 tries would have been sufficient.

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Except the last five times Lynch carried from the 1 he only scored once. 1/5.

The Hawks got out coached as a whole the entire game. The Patriots scored 28 points by doing the same thing for 4 quarters, and our offense went bizarro when we needed it to be called like it has been for the past 3 years. The Pats got yards over and over with the same concepts, and managed to get Simon on an island over and over instead of Maxwell. We stayed the course and got burned repeatedly.

When you get 14 points scored on you in the 4th, it's because you got figured out.

if we stuck to ground and pound on the last play like we have relied on for the last 3 years...we all would be sporting back to back shirts right now...

Cyrus12":f0ml0m7r said:

if we stuck to ground and pound on the last play like we have relied on for the last 3 years...we all would be sporting back to back shirts right now...

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Lynch was 1/5 in his last five attempts from the one.

AbsolutNET":2jde9h8z said:

The Hawks got out coached as a whole the entire game. The Patriots scored 28 points by doing the same thing for 4 quarters, and our offense went bizarro when we needed it to be called like it has been for the past 3 years. The Pats got yards over and over with the same concepts, and managed to get Simon on an island over and over instead of Maxwell. We stayed the course and got burned repeatedly.

When you get 14 points scored on you in the 4th, it's because you got figured out.

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This post exactly.

I think that once they realized Revis and Browner were blanketing or WR's, and Luke was being knocked off routes at the line repeatedly, they had to go into "desperate and risky" mode instead of Beastmode.

Vancanhawksfan":3pf2x9to said:

TDOTSEAHAWK":3pf2x9to said:

Nah, we overthunk it.

Went for the ideal scenario of clock management rather than focusing on just securing the points with the best matchup.

I think we just lost the forest for the trees and out thought ourselves.

We also were playing for fourth down when probably 2 tries would have been sufficient.

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Except the last five times Lynch carried from the 1 he only scored once. 1/5.

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What about from the 2? How about the 3? I seem to recall punching one in earlier in the same game and getting a 4 yard run on the previous play.

The 1/5 is not as relevant as you would like because they were different teams in different situations. Patriots were the worst team in the league in power situations. This was the fourth quarter and the defensive line was tired.

AbsolutNET":i9wxngqm said:

The Hawks got out coached as a whole the entire game. The Patriots scored 28 points by doing the same thing for 4 quarters, and our offense went bizarro when we needed it to be called like it has been for the past 3 years. The Pats got yards over and over with the same concepts, and managed to get Simon on an island over and over instead of Maxwell. We stayed the course and got burned repeatedly.

When you get 14 points scored on you in the 4th, it's because you got figured out.

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The Pats followed the Chargers' blueprint.

Dink and dunk with chunks of yards. Get 5 or 6 yards every play and move the chains. Then attack with the TE.

It was the exact same plan, and the Hawks were beaten by it all over again.

It's the only strategy that can beat this Defense, and it needs to be fixed.

Vancanhawksfan":1qru3xk2 said:

If the play goes incomplete then Carroll/Bevell then have enough time to run two more plays of anything they want - including two run plays. If they don't run a pass play then if it gets stopped they will likely only get one more run play and that's it.

A quick slant is a low risk play. RW could have thrown the ball better (threw it at Lockette's body rather than leading him as much as he did, and/or threw it lower) but ultimately Butler made a great play...he did his homework and made an outstanding read, reaction and willed it his way.

A quick slant to the end zone against a rookie CB...I think you take that match up most of the time if you can. Its a bread and butter play that we make 7/10 times, with incompletions almost every other time. Not a horrible call...just bad luck, slightly poor execution and a great play.

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I still say giving the beast the rock 2 and goal with almost 40 seconds left and a time out, would have been a way way better low risk high reward play. Than any pass play

Vancanhawksfan":t8vnyyui said:

Cyrus12":t8vnyyui said:

if we stuck to ground and pound on the last play like we have relied on for the last 3 years...we all would be sporting back to back shirts right now...

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Lynch was 1/5 in his last five attempts from the one.

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so what? You don't give him a chance in the biggest carry of his life? How many times did Lynch run for or was tackled for a loss yesterday??

Vancanhawksfan":b0b09zvn said:

Cyrus12":b0b09zvn said:

if we stuck to ground and pound on the last play like we have relied on for the last 3 years...we all would be sporting back to back shirts right now...

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Lynch was 1/5 in his last five attempts from the one.

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I'd bet to say he would have 2 of 6 with the Super Bowl on the line

No point in analyzing the overall coaching. History will gauge this game on that one call, so that's all we need to look at - and Carroll (Bevell) made the wrong call.

PC can try and justify why they wanted to pass on that down, and I honestly see where he's coming from in terms of making sure we get 3 plays instead of 2. But if you are going to pass on 2nd down, use what we have! Call a play-action with Marshawn, then have Russell bootleg outside - this gives us options. Finally, throw a pass that ONLY a Seahawk can catch, such as a fade, or hopefully a wide open TE after the bootleg, or run it in.

ANYTHING BUT THAT CALL! That one call played into every single weakness we have on our offense (Russell throwing from the pocket, over the middle with a short slant, to a receiver that is NOT a possession receiver, in the heart of their defense, on Browner's side. Really? You thought Kearse would take out the DB after being handled by Browner?)

HawaiiD":2ndp7m7y said:

Vancanhawksfan":2ndp7m7y said:

If the play goes incomplete then Carroll/Bevell then have enough time to run two more plays of anything they want - including two run plays. If they don't run a pass play then if it gets stopped they will likely only get one more run play and that's it.

A quick slant is a low risk play. RW could have thrown the ball better (threw it at Lockette's body rather than leading him as much as he did, and/or threw it lower) but ultimately Butler made a great play...he did his homework and made an outstanding read, reaction and willed it his way.

A quick slant to the end zone against a rookie CB...I think you take that match up most of the time if you can. Its a bread and butter play that we make 7/10 times, with incompletions almost every other time. Not a horrible call...just bad luck, slightly poor execution and a great play.

Click to expand...

I still say giving the beast the rock 2 and goal with almost 40 seconds left and a time out, would have been a way way better low risk high reward play. Than any pass play

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There was only 26 seconds to play with only one timeout. Big difference.

Pass on 2nd down...if its incomplete then you have time to run both 3rd and 4th down. You get to run Marshawn twice if you choose PLUS get a shot at the end zone with a pass play.

If you run on 2nd down and get stopped you must take your last time out, and then you either pass (and if incomplete then get one more play) or if you run that's likely the last play you get.

If you want three shots at the end zone you have to throw one pass play (with an incompletion of course) on either 2nd or 3rd down...with the option of running Beast twice if you want. But if you run two times in a row then you only get two shots.

The point is its not automatic (by the 1/5 stat). You need to preserve as many plays as you are given and not piss them away.