I wonder if agnostic people are coping better with the loss

BirdsCommaAngry

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
1,278
Reaction score
77
In 10 TIPS FOR SEAHAWKS FANS ON HOW TO DEAL WITH THE SUPER BOWL LOSS, an article by Wyatt Arndt based upon his experiences in losing a championship game in a similarly heart-breaking manner as we did, he notes a pattern about how sports fans attempt to understand what happened by asking why. Among our fans, this pattern is present and present in abundance. Why didn't we give the ball to Lynch? Why did we call a slant? If we called a pass because of time constraints, why did we let so much time run off the clock? If we had to pass, why did we not threaten a run and pass off play-action? Why not a fade? Why pass to Lockette of all our receivers? Why didn't Lockette outstretch his arms more?

For me, a typical explanation like "This is just how people cope" is boring because it involves no detail as to why a pattern exists and those details are what one may actually learn a great deal from. In the case of our coping and Wyatt's calling of attention to a specific pattern, it reminded me of a study referenced in David DiSalvo's book, What Makes your Brain Happy and Why You Should Do the Opposite. It also made me take a trip down memory lane to attempt to explain why my more unique reaction to SB49 was what it was.

The study DiSalvo referenced involved monitoring the brain patterns of people when faced with a piece of paper with either a compete circle or an incomplete circle with one part of the edge not quite connected. That's all. What they discovered was that we drastically prefer completeness over incompleteness. Most subjects were bothered by the incomplete circles and some to the degree that they would use a pen if available to complete it. This offers insight into so much of human nature. It's a possible motivation for why we attempt to explain and rationalize everything despite how little we often actually know about ourselves and what we've been through. It's also a possible explanation for why someone like myself will experience a change in feeling as strange as the one I'm about to describe in the next paragraph. Ultimately, though, it demonstrates our reluctance to accept the unknown.

For me, when the Seahawks lost the Superbowl, it was disappointing but in a really inconsequential way. For example, I was way more disappointed by the 41-7 loss to the Giants by the Charlie Whitehurst lead Seahawks during Carroll's first season here. By conventional standards for football fans, that statement simply seems insane to make. One is a blowout during a rebuilding year under a new HC with the backup QB at the helm and the other is the freaking Superbowl! But this seemingly strange experience exists because my disposition toward the outcome of football games has changed so drastically over the last few years. Lately, I've been very curious as to why that is and some of the answers might surprise you and ideally, even help prevent you from suffering the pitfalls of this loss anymore than you have to.

Some of my response is innate as introverted people like myself are going to be more inclined to analyze and even take control of their innermost thoughts but I don't think this is enough to separate me from the preferred reaction of sheer overwhelming disappointment. I think I've reacted this way ultimately because seven years ago I was diagnosed with cancer. I used to hate telling people this because it compels others to show a degree of shock or concern when my experience with cancer was as ideal as could be. I had a very treatable form of cancer that was caught early. I was insured and born into a family capable of covering much of the expenses. I felt there are people who have their lives yanked onto a very different trajectory by cancer and because my experience was ultimately a flirtation with the mere prospect of untimely death that I wasn't one of them.

But I am.

What cancer did was take all those grand thoughts we tend to bury under the practicalities of everyday life, like the meaning of life, what happens after death, why we're here, what our purpose is, etc., and made me begin to unbury them. It made me face all those incomplete circles I penned into completion with simple beliefs and undetailed answers. What began as a rather ugly exercise in trial and error has since taught me that it isn't the answers that absolve us from the questions that are impossible to answer; it's acceptance in how impossible they are to answer. With time, I've become increasingly more skilled at this act of acceptance and when the outcome of SB49 reared it's ugly head, I found my hopes weren't crushed or my emotional investment wasted. Instead, it was like watching any great movie with a riveting but unhappy ending. I'm just glad to have experienced it.

Thus, I think about others who have learned to be more accepting of the unknowable, like agnostics, and I'm curious about how they've come to that mindset despite their internal aversions to incompleteness. I'm wondering if they too are coping better with the loss as a result.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10 TIPS FOR SEAHAWKS FANS ON HOW TO DEAL WITH THE SUPER BOWL LOSS:
Link: http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/02/tips ... bowl-loss/
Thread on article: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=108295

David DiSalvo:
Website: http://www.daviddisalvo.org/
Book: http://seattle.bibliocommons.com/item/s ... e_opposite
 

Veilside

New member
Joined
Sep 8, 2010
Messages
755
Reaction score
0
Wow, interesting post. I never thought of the possibility of my being agnostic being a factor in my rapidly increasing tolerance for handling losses.

In 2006 I punched a hole in the wall while watching a Hawks game that we ended up winning. While just 2 years ago I came up with a system to handle "bad ref calls" way better than ever before. I just view the calls as good or bad luck and nothing more. Way easier to cope with and doesn't ruin the enjoyment of the game. This year I feel I reached another level, though it still hurt inside I was able to contain the pain and think clearly after the recent loss. I was shocked a little but quickly moved to the acceptance stage. The only thing was I still had that sinking feeling in my gut so it would seem that the loss might have effected me more physically than mentally. Both my girlfriend and I went to bed right when we got home from the bar and slept it off.

I've been trying to avoid sports radio all week because I'm so sick of hearing people's hyperbole about how this was the worst call in superbowl history. It reminds me of the same stuff said about the "Fail Mary." Or even worse, the conspiracy theories about how the league didnt want Lynch to be MVP. He could have just as easily got a TD rather than got stopped at the 1 so that theory holds no water with me.

Anyways, I'm just 1 person but I'm an example of an agnostic handling this loss far better than I've witnessed others taking it which seems relevant to your post.
 

dumbrabbit

New member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
821
Reaction score
0
I've learned to deal with losses by just getting over them, and moving on. There's always next season.
 

fenderbender123

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 9, 2012
Messages
12,263
Reaction score
2,467
If you want to get over this loss, here's my advice - Buy every Patriots fan you know a congratulatory beer and then go post on their forums how great their team is and how they really earned that Super Bowl.

I know, I know....blasphemy! But it works. At least, it makes me feel better.
 

bigskydoc

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
4,104
Reaction score
1,427
Location
Kalispell, MT
Quite possibly. I am frankly atheist and I certainly dealt with the unexpected and traumatic deaths of my parents and grandmother much better than my fundamentalist religious family and friends.

I don't know if that translates into sports or not. Certainly admitting that this was a good game and verbalizing that to people who came to express their condolences about this game has given me a much better feeling about the loss and the nature of it. It is much nicer to talk about what an amazing game it was than commiserate. I think it would be much harder to be a Green Bay fan dealing with the loss of the NFCCG while believing my team was blowing out the other team for 55 min (even though the stats argue otherwise).

-bsd RPA
 

Thomas144

New member
Joined
Jan 25, 2015
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
Atheist, cancer survivor, Patriots fan here. Very sympathetic to your pain. Upsetting to hear that Pete Carroll woke up weeping at 4 am on Tuesday morning. I'm of course glad that the Pats won but they came so close to losing it doesn't feel that great. The loss in 2007 was easily the most crushing defeat for Boston sports fans - nothing could be worse - worse than the '75 World Series. The Kearse catch was too reminiscent of the Tyree catch to make this SB win that gratifying. Maybe if Malcolm Butler has a HOF career things will feel different 15 years from now.
 

Russ Willstrong

New member
Joined
Aug 28, 2012
Messages
1,704
Reaction score
0
BirdsCommaAngry":220gpgid said:
In 10 TIPS FOR SEAHAWKS FANS ON HOW TO DEAL WITH THE SUPER BOWL LOSS, an article by Wyatt Arndt based upon his experiences in losing a championship game in a similarly heart-breaking manner as we did, he notes a pattern about how sports fans attempt to understand what happened by asking why. Among our fans, this pattern is present and present in abundance. Why didn't we give the ball to Lynch? Why did we call a slant? If we called a pass because of time constraints, why did we let so much time run off the clock? If we had to pass, why did we not threaten a run and pass off play-action? Why not a fade? Why pass to Lockette of all our receivers? Why didn't Lockette outstretch his arms more?

For me, a typical explanation like "This is just how people cope" is boring because it involves no detail as to why a pattern exists and those details are what one may actually learn a great deal from. In the case of our coping and Wyatt's calling of attention to a specific pattern, it reminded me of a study referenced in David DiSalvo's book, What Makes your Brain Happy and Why You Should Do the Opposite. It also made me take a trip down memory lane to attempt to explain why my more unique reaction to SB49 was what it was.

The study DiSalvo referenced involved monitoring the brain patterns of people when faced with a piece of paper with either a compete circle or an incomplete circle with one part of the edge not quite connected. That's all. What they discovered was that we drastically prefer completeness over incompleteness. Most subjects were bothered by the incomplete circles and some to the degree that they would use a pen if available to complete it. This offers insight into so much of human nature. It's a possible motivation for why we attempt to explain and rationalize everything despite how little we often actually know about ourselves and what we've been through. It's also a possible explanation for why someone like myself will experience a change in feeling as strange as the one I'm about to describe in the next paragraph. Ultimately, though, it demonstrates our reluctance to accept the unknown.

For me, when the Seahawks lost the Superbowl, it was disappointing but in a really inconsequential way. For example, I was way more disappointed by the 41-7 loss to the Giants by the Charlie Whitehurst lead Seahawks during Carroll's first season here. By conventional standards for football fans, that statement simply seems insane to make. One is a blowout during a rebuilding year under a new HC with the backup QB at the helm and the other is the freaking Superbowl! But this seemingly strange experience exists because my disposition toward the outcome of football games has changed so drastically over the last few years. Lately, I've been very curious as to why that is and some of the answers might surprise you and ideally, even help prevent you from suffering the pitfalls of this loss anymore than you have to.

Some of my response is innate as introverted people like myself are going to be more inclined to analyze and even take control of their innermost thoughts but I don't think this is enough to separate me from the preferred reaction of sheer overwhelming disappointment. I think I've reacted this way ultimately because seven years ago I was diagnosed with cancer. I used to hate telling people this because it compels others to show a degree of shock or concern when my experience with cancer was as ideal as could be. I had a very treatable form of cancer that was caught early. I was insured and born into a family capable of covering much of the expenses. I felt there are people who have their lives yanked onto a very different trajectory by cancer and because my experience was ultimately a flirtation with the mere prospect of untimely death that I wasn't one of them.

But I am.

What cancer did was take all those grand thoughts we tend to bury under the practicalities of everyday life, like the meaning of life, what happens after death, why we're here, what our purpose is, etc., and made me begin to unbury them. It made me face all those incomplete circles I penned into completion with simple beliefs and undetailed answers. What began as a rather ugly exercise in trial and error has since taught me that it isn't the answers that absolve us from the questions that are impossible to answer; it's acceptance in how impossible they are to answer. With time, I've become increasingly more skilled at this act of acceptance and when the outcome of SB49 reared it's ugly head, I found my hopes weren't crushed or my emotional investment wasted. Instead, it was like watching any great movie with a riveting but unhappy ending. I'm just glad to have experienced it.

Thus, I think about others who have learned to be more accepting of the unknowable, like agnostics, and I'm curious about how they've come to that mindset despite their internal aversions to incompleteness. I'm wondering if they too are coping better with the loss as a result.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10 TIPS FOR SEAHAWKS FANS ON HOW TO DEAL WITH THE SUPER BOWL LOSS:
Link: http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/02/tips ... bowl-loss/
Thread on article: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=108295

David DiSalvo:
Website: http://www.daviddisalvo.org/
Book: http://seattle.bibliocommons.com/item/s ... e_opposite
Great post.
 

Russ Willstrong

New member
Joined
Aug 28, 2012
Messages
1,704
Reaction score
0
Thomas144":3cf11yu0 said:
Atheist, cancer survivor, Patriots fan here. Very sympathetic to your pain. Upsetting to hear that Pete Carroll woke up weeping at 4 am on Tuesday morning. I'm of course glad that the Pats won but they came so close to losing it doesn't feel that great. The loss in 2007 was easily the most crushing defeat for Boston sports fans - nothing could be worse - worse than the '75 World Series. The Kearse catch was too reminiscent of the Tyree catch to make this SB win that gratifying. Maybe if Malcolm Butler has a HOF career things will feel different 15 years from now.
Malcom Butler has some that quickness and scrappy playmaking ability that makes Earl Thomas great. Don't know if he'll be a great corner but a good start for a rookie.
 

Sgt. Largent

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
25,560
Reaction score
7,611
BirdsCommaAngry":1qg8e40z said:
Thus, I think about others who have learned to be more accepting of the unknowable, like agnostics, and I'm curious about how they've come to that mindset despite their internal aversions to incompleteness. I'm wondering if they too are coping better with the loss as a result.

Interesting question, but regardless of your spiritual opinions I think we all accept in one way or another that the world is comprised of random acts.

In fact, I'd think atheists or agnostics might have a harder time with these random uncontrollable acts because there's no outlet to draw some inner peace and/or solace.

btw, I consider myself an agnostic, and what I fall back on is that although I'm a hardcore Hawk fan, this is not real life. Family, work, marriage, and other soul fulfilling endeavors is what brings me peace.
 

mikeak

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
8,202
Reaction score
25
Location
Anchorage, AK
A way to deal with it better is to setup a great personal reward when seahwaks lose and setup a chore not liked when they win.

That helps take the low and highs out

I believe I dealt with it better because we had people here and I kept downplaying the lead with "far from over" mentality.

Still just getting back to checking sports scores
 

Hawkstorian

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
4,902
Reaction score
610
Location
Spokane
It was a great game and we lost by 1 yard. I don't feel cheated or disappointed at all. The degree to which the loss impacts me is 100% my choice.

I felt a lot differently about XL, but that was a crappy game for all kinds of reasons. I held on to the negative feelings a long time, but I've lived a few years since then, and my approach to "fandom" has evolved.

The fact that the Seahawks won last year made the loss this year a lot easier to stomach. I've got another 40-50 years of Seahawks games to enjoy, I'm not going to let this loss change my attitude one single bit.
 

IndyHawk

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
7,992
Reaction score
1,625
Hawkstorian":1x24djdq said:
It was a great game and we lost by 1 yard. I don't feel cheated or disappointed at all. The degree to which the loss impacts me is 100% my choice.

I felt a lot differently about XL, but that was a crappy game for all kinds of reasons. I held on to the negative feelings a long time, but I've lived a few years since then, and my approach to "fandom" has evolved.

The fact that the Seahawks won last year made the loss this year a lot easier to stomach. I've got another 40-50 years of Seahawks games to enjoy, I'm not going to let this loss change my attitude one single bit.
Nice to see you again John,I was hoping you would write up something after the SB and this is cool..I feel pretty much the same as you not cheated ect,I was dissapointed we lost but nothing like XL at all and I was over it the next day pretty much..The NE fan above puts it in a way I can live with.."We won but it doesn't really feel like it"I think we may have had the same feelings somewhat had we won..It was a great game and it's not the last one.In the next 40 years I'll be rooting with Hawkstorian and all the NET 12's..GO HAWKS!!!
 

Thomas144

New member
Joined
Jan 25, 2015
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
something I think about when my team loses: my wife is from Italy and has lots of family back in the old country - she mentioned once how we wouldn't want to be there after Italy had lost the world cup one year, or maybe it was Inter losing to Juventus or Napoli losing to AC Milan because everyone would be so depressed. kind of puts things in perceptive. her cousin's husband is a huge sports fan and loves sports memorabilia so on our last visit in 2013 I brought him a Rob Gronkowski bobble-head doll - I said he was a very important player and he said "oh, the quarterback?" again, just puts things in perspective. people in Italy, who have the best food, wine, and women, might have heard of the superbowl, but they don't know who the quarterback is. :)
 

NFSeahawks

New member
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
4,714
Reaction score
0
BirdsCommaAngry":1zi4i75d said:
In 10 TIPS FOR SEAHAWKS FANS ON HOW TO DEAL WITH THE SUPER BOWL LOSS, an article by Wyatt Arndt based upon his experiences in losing a championship game in a similarly heart-breaking manner as we did, he notes a pattern about how sports fans attempt to understand what happened by asking why. Among our fans, this pattern is present and present in abundance. Why didn't we give the ball to Lynch? Why did we call a slant? If we called a pass because of time constraints, why did we let so much time run off the clock? If we had to pass, why did we not threaten a run and pass off play-action? Why not a fade? Why pass to Lockette of all our receivers? Why didn't Lockette outstretch his arms more?

For me, a typical explanation like "This is just how people cope" is boring because it involves no detail as to why a pattern exists and those details are what one may actually learn a great deal from. In the case of our coping and Wyatt's calling of attention to a specific pattern, it reminded me of a study referenced in David DiSalvo's book, What Makes your Brain Happy and Why You Should Do the Opposite. It also made me take a trip down memory lane to attempt to explain why my more unique reaction to SB49 was what it was.

The study DiSalvo referenced involved monitoring the brain patterns of people when faced with a piece of paper with either a compete circle or an incomplete circle with one part of the edge not quite connected. That's all. What they discovered was that we drastically prefer completeness over incompleteness. Most subjects were bothered by the incomplete circles and some to the degree that they would use a pen if available to complete it. This offers insight into so much of human nature. It's a possible motivation for why we attempt to explain and rationalize everything despite how little we often actually know about ourselves and what we've been through. It's also a possible explanation for why someone like myself will experience a change in feeling as strange as the one I'm about to describe in the next paragraph. Ultimately, though, it demonstrates our reluctance to accept the unknown.

For me, when the Seahawks lost the Superbowl, it was disappointing but in a really inconsequential way. For example, I was way more disappointed by the 41-7 loss to the Giants by the Charlie Whitehurst lead Seahawks during Carroll's first season here. By conventional standards for football fans, that statement simply seems insane to make. One is a blowout during a rebuilding year under a new HC with the backup QB at the helm and the other is the freaking Superbowl! But this seemingly strange experience exists because my disposition toward the outcome of football games has changed so drastically over the last few years. Lately, I've been very curious as to why that is and some of the answers might surprise you and ideally, even help prevent you from suffering the pitfalls of this loss anymore than you have to.

Some of my response is innate as introverted people like myself are going to be more inclined to analyze and even take control of their innermost thoughts but I don't think this is enough to separate me from the preferred reaction of sheer overwhelming disappointment. I think I've reacted this way ultimately because seven years ago I was diagnosed with cancer. I used to hate telling people this because it compels others to show a degree of shock or concern when my experience with cancer was as ideal as could be. I had a very treatable form of cancer that was caught early. I was insured and born into a family capable of covering much of the expenses. I felt there are people who have their lives yanked onto a very different trajectory by cancer and because my experience was ultimately a flirtation with the mere prospect of untimely death that I wasn't one of them.

But I am.

What cancer did was take all those grand thoughts we tend to bury under the practicalities of everyday life, like the meaning of life, what happens after death, why we're here, what our purpose is, etc., and made me begin to unbury them. It made me face all those incomplete circles I penned into completion with simple beliefs and undetailed answers. What began as a rather ugly exercise in trial and error has since taught me that it isn't the answers that absolve us from the questions that are impossible to answer; it's acceptance in how impossible they are to answer. With time, I've become increasingly more skilled at this act of acceptance and when the outcome of SB49 reared it's ugly head, I found my hopes weren't crushed or my emotional investment wasted. Instead, it was like watching any great movie with a riveting but unhappy ending. I'm just glad to have experienced it.

Thus, I think about others who have learned to be more accepting of the unknowable, like agnostics, and I'm curious about how they've come to that mindset despite their internal aversions to incompleteness. I'm wondering if they too are coping better with the loss as a result.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10 TIPS FOR SEAHAWKS FANS ON HOW TO DEAL WITH THE SUPER BOWL LOSS:
Link: http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/02/tips ... bowl-loss/
Thread on article: http://www.seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=108295

David DiSalvo:
Website: http://www.daviddisalvo.org/
Book: http://seattle.bibliocommons.com/item/s ... e_opposite

I've gone from being christian to being agnostic over the span of my twenty six years on earth by my own in-depth though process and understanding that the world cannot be understood and nothing can be known. It's a delightful find, and one can finally put the "war of the mind" to bed.

Bravo to you for finding this for yourself.

Enjoy life, and live. That's all that matters.
 

drdiags

New member
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
10,682
Reaction score
1
Location
Kent, Washington
I find it easier to cope when I look back on history and see other fans who had their hearts ripped out. Sure, there have been some franchises that seemed to live the high life while there are others that have only gotten the short end of the stick.

Yep, the Seahawks totally controlled their fate at the end, but it was not meant to be.

I look at the Vikings, Buffalo and other franchises that haven't even had a chance. What about the Bengals who went to the big game and lost twice?

Patriots fans got to see their team get hammered by the Bears, lose to a young wildman Favre before BB and Brady got on a roll. Then a helmet catch away from a perfect season and two straight Superbowl losses.

We all know the heartbreak NFC teams had in the playoffs leading to the Superbowl.

No one man's suffering has precedence over another's. I will get by but I feel for those that will never get to feel what a champion feels. Not sure why but I would have liked to see Kevin Williams finally get his. He probably is kicking himself for not picking the Pats over the Seahawks.

Hang in there fellow fans. You hurt because you care.
 

SEAHAWG

New member
Joined
May 8, 2009
Messages
100
Reaction score
0
fenderbender123":cb4t2esf said:
If you want to get over this loss, here's my advice - Buy every Patriots fan you know a congratulatory beer and then go post on their forums how great their team is and how they really earned that Super Bowl.

I know, I know....blasphemy! But it works. At least, it makes me feel better.

I prefer the," Punch every Pastie fan in the face method",
That makes me feel better every time.
Boston is a great place for nuclear testing in my opinion.
 

Trenchbroom

New member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
2,834
Reaction score
0
Location
Spokangeles
I wouldn't consider my ability to get over this loss quickly a product of my Atheism but rather my unwavering pragmatism. Sports is for fun; the highest peaks and lowest valleys that my love of sports brings to me cannot compare with real life.

All about having the proper perspective IMO.
 

SalishHawkFan

New member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
5,872
Reaction score
0
I'm an atheist and I didn't take it nearly as hard as SB XL. We got cheated in the first SB loss. In this one, we are easily going to win a SB. Hand it to Lynch. Then Bevell did what Bevell does only this time he set a record for stupid play calls.
It happens.
It's really disappointing, but it doesn't feel like we aren't a Super Bowl champion caliber team. Hand that ball to Lynch and we win. Period. Sure, they beat us. The Butler kid made a great play. But they wouldn't have beaten us if we hadn't had Bevell making such a stupid play call.

It was a great game. The greatest game ever. Would have been even better had we won.

I don't ask why things happen, because random things happen randomly and other things happen because we made them happen. The only meaning to these things is the meaning we give them ourselves. The only meaning that game had was that we would have won if not for stupidity.

Seahawks have the best team in the NFL. That is very apparent.

Patriots earned that win, but at the same time, they were lucky the injuries fell like they did or they wouldn't have. As the Terminator says, "We'll be back."
 

sc85sis

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
8,501
Reaction score
1,353
Location
Houston Suburbs
Religion or lack thereof has nothing to do with it. Plenty of people--like our own QB--use their faith as a source of strength. Ultimately it comes down to how positive you tend to be, and people on all points of the religious/spirituality spectrum vary in their positivity level.
 
Top