Just watched the final drive again... Man Man Man

Apologies to those trying to move on. I just had to share this.

The Patriots went big on man coverage and barely offered any pass rush on the final drive. Essentially, they wanted Russell to beat them throwing downfield. The Lynch play is just a masterful job of ML getting open on the slant and go plus a great throw from Wilson. Then they get lucky on the Kearse juggling catch.

But here's the thing -- Wilson takes two downfield shots. The Kearse throw into tight coverage and a shot to Chris Matthews vs Browner (overthrown, CM ends up being the defender).

With the Pats in man coverage, there are HUGE running lanes wide open for Russell. When everyone goes deep as they did, it just opened up underneath. There was zero pass rush, they didn't even try. So often we've see Wilson in this situation play it safe, not go for the 50-50 deep ball but play the percentages. I'm positive he could've had 15 yards on each deep shot running the ball. With the clock on our side and two timeouts I'm not sure why he didn't tuck and run. It never even crossed his mind. He threw two unwise passes and got lucky twice (first time that Browner didn't pick it off, second the Kearse circus act).

Doesn't mean we would've won the game and finished the drive, but the whole thing felt so rushed and panicked. Even on the doomed play, Baldwin and Lynch are lined up incorrectly. I thought at the time we'd end up wasting another time out. It was all so rushed. And when we've won games at the end like Chicago (2012), Tampa Bay (2013) Houston (2014) and Denver (2014) it's been almost robotic -- ice in our veins type of stuff.

The occasion probably didn't help and maybe the three previous stalled drives (zero points) made them second guess themselves. But man, there were some big old rushing lanes there for the taking.

theENGLISHseahawk":3437yro8 said:

Apologies to those trying to move on. I just had to share this.

The Patriots went big on man coverage and barely offered any pass rush on the final drive. Essentially, they wanted Russell to beat them throwing downfield. The Lynch play is just a masterful job of ML getting open on the slant and go plus a great throw from Wilson. Then they get lucky on the Kearse juggling catch.

But here's the thing -- Wilson takes two downfield shots. The Kearse throw into tight coverage and a shot to Chris Matthews vs Browner (overthrown, CM ends up being the defender).

With the Pats in man coverage, there are HUGE running lanes wide open for Russell. When everyone goes deep as they did, it just opened up underneath. There was zero pass rush, they didn't even try. So often we've see Wilson in this situation play it safe, not go for the 50-50 deep ball but play the percentages. I'm positive he could've had 15 yards on each deep shot running the ball. With the clock on our side and two timeouts I'm not sure why he didn't tuck and run. It never even crossed his mind. He threw two unwise passes and got lucky twice (first time that Browner didn't pick it off, second the Kearse circus act).

Doesn't mean we would've won the game and finished the drive, but the whole thing felt so rushed and panicked. Even on the doomed play, Baldwin and Lynch are lined up incorrectly. I thought at the time we'd end up wasting another time out. It was all so rushed. And when we've won games at the end like Chicago (2012), Tampa Bay (2013) Houston (2014) and Denver (2014) it's been almost robotic -- ice in our veins type of stuff.

The occasion probably didn't help and maybe the three previous stalled drives (zero points) made them second guess themselves. But man, there were some big old rushing lanes there for the taking.

Click to expand...

Pretty much over it. I've concluded that the game was lost with Baldwin's penalty.
Had that not occured, we would have stalled the drive on the 32 yard line instead of the 47 and punting.
Kicked the fg, be up by 13, kick the game winner on the last play..
Angry Deuce has got to go.

Think that's the weird thing about the game. So many moments you can point to. I definitely think the Baldwin penalty shifted some momentum at a time we were rolling.

But for me the biggest problem was the three consecutive drives we had without scoring, leading up to the final fatal drive. They had no idea how to contain Wilson, didn't have the speed in the front seven to deal with his running -- and for some reason we never really exploited it or the read option. We were getting on and off the field in double quick time on offense, never gave the injured defense a rest. It didn't need to come down to that final drive if we'd just kept going.

Bobblehead":1gthq393 said:

theENGLISHseahawk":1gthq393 said:

Apologies to those trying to move on. I just had to share this.

The Patriots went big on man coverage and barely offered any pass rush on the final drive. Essentially, they wanted Russell to beat them throwing downfield. The Lynch play is just a masterful job of ML getting open on the slant and go plus a great throw from Wilson. Then they get lucky on the Kearse juggling catch.

But here's the thing -- Wilson takes two downfield shots. The Kearse throw into tight coverage and a shot to Chris Matthews vs Browner (overthrown, CM ends up being the defender).

With the Pats in man coverage, there are HUGE running lanes wide open for Russell. When everyone goes deep as they did, it just opened up underneath. There was zero pass rush, they didn't even try. So often we've see Wilson in this situation play it safe, not go for the 50-50 deep ball but play the percentages. I'm positive he could've had 15 yards on each deep shot running the ball. With the clock on our side and two timeouts I'm not sure why he didn't tuck and run. It never even crossed his mind. He threw two unwise passes and got lucky twice (first time that Browner didn't pick it off, second the Kearse circus act).

Doesn't mean we would've won the game and finished the drive, but the whole thing felt so rushed and panicked. Even on the doomed play, Baldwin and Lynch are lined up incorrectly. I thought at the time we'd end up wasting another time out. It was all so rushed. And when we've won games at the end like Chicago (2012), Tampa Bay (2013) Houston (2014) and Denver (2014) it's been almost robotic -- ice in our veins type of stuff.

The occasion probably didn't help and maybe the three previous stalled drives (zero points) made them second guess themselves. But man, there were some big old rushing lanes there for the taking.

Click to expand...

Pretty much over it. I've concluded that the game was lost with Baldwin's penalty.
Had that not occured, we would have stalled the drive on the 32 yard line instead of the 47 and punting.
Kicked the fg, be up by 13, kick the game winner on the last play..
Angry Deuce has got to go.

Click to expand...

You're drunk. Go sleep it off.

theENGLISHseahawk":3uxn0adx said:

Think that's the weird thing about the game. So many moments you can point to. I definitely think the Baldwin penalty shifted some momentum at a time we were rolling.

But for me the biggest problem was the three consecutive drives we had without scoring, leading up to the final fatal drive. They had no idea how to contain Wilson, didn't have the speed in the front seven to deal with his running -- and for some reason we never really exploited it or the read option. We were getting on and off the field in double quick time on offense, never gave the injured defense a rest. It didn't need to come down to that final drive if we'd just kept going.

Click to expand...

We'll I look at the 2 drives in the 2nd half that went no where. IIRC it was 3rd and 3 and we drop a perfect one to Kearse, if he catches that we've got a FG and most likely we kick a game winning FG. Then you got Lockette being completely tripped with no call by the refs. If he catches that it's a 30 yard gain, instead we punt shortly.

Those 2 drive killers bother me, we've often gone for the homerun on 3rd and short. It's a shame that Kearse could haul it in. It also weird that we just didn't try to extend the drive by running.


The sad/funny part about that whole last minute of the game. After the Kearse catch I was staring at the clock worried that we'd leave too much time to NE. When Lynch ran it on 1st down and got stopped short-- I celebrated, because I like, great we get to burn off more time.

Also, I think the reason this loss hurts much more, is how it was lost. If say Brady takes them on a game winning drive ok, fine. It's just that when you march to the 1 yard line, and the other team is helping win by refusing to use it's timeouts, I think the shock of the playcall and how unlikely a victory it was for NE, makes it one of the "best" super bowls.

Bobblehead":1fbryjjl said:

theENGLISHseahawk":1fbryjjl said:

Apologies to those trying to move on. I just had to share this.

The Patriots went big on man coverage and barely offered any pass rush on the final drive. Essentially, they wanted Russell to beat them throwing downfield. The Lynch play is just a masterful job of ML getting open on the slant and go plus a great throw from Wilson. Then they get lucky on the Kearse juggling catch.

But here's the thing -- Wilson takes two downfield shots. The Kearse throw into tight coverage and a shot to Chris Matthews vs Browner (overthrown, CM ends up being the defender).

With the Pats in man coverage, there are HUGE running lanes wide open for Russell. When everyone goes deep as they did, it just opened up underneath. There was zero pass rush, they didn't even try. So often we've see Wilson in this situation play it safe, not go for the 50-50 deep ball but play the percentages. I'm positive he could've had 15 yards on each deep shot running the ball. With the clock on our side and two timeouts I'm not sure why he didn't tuck and run. It never even crossed his mind. He threw two unwise passes and got lucky twice (first time that Browner didn't pick it off, second the Kearse circus act).

Doesn't mean we would've won the game and finished the drive, but the whole thing felt so rushed and panicked. Even on the doomed play, Baldwin and Lynch are lined up incorrectly. I thought at the time we'd end up wasting another time out. It was all so rushed. And when we've won games at the end like Chicago (2012), Tampa Bay (2013) Houston (2014) and Denver (2014) it's been almost robotic -- ice in our veins type of stuff.

The occasion probably didn't help and maybe the three previous stalled drives (zero points) made them second guess themselves. But man, there were some big old rushing lanes there for the taking.

Click to expand...

Pretty much over it. I've concluded that the game was lost with Baldwin's penalty.
Had that not occured, we would have stalled the drive on the 32 yard line instead of the 47 and punting.
Kicked the fg, be up by 13, kick the game winner on the last play..
Angry Deuce has got to go.

Click to expand...

I blame Gary Gilliam for catching the fake field goal pass and Chris Matthews for getting the onside kick. Without those jokers the Seahawks don't make the Super Bowl.

I'm not over it and won't be for some time, b/c it is a painful thing to just shove out of my mind. My belief is Bevell simply got too cute and the play was too high risk for the situation. Running Lynch, using the read option, or a play action fade in the situation could have dealt with the clock situation Pete was supposedly concerned about with far less risk of a jumped route tipped ball or fumble. if the WRs were covered RW could have thrown the ball away. In all the run in this situation had statistically worked against the Patriots all season, and the team would have known it. A slant was risky, and neither of the two players involved in the play at the POA Kearse and Lockette, is known as being really sure handed. Bevell invited disaster, it showed up costing the game, and he then blamed the WR for not going hard enough to the ball when it was clear the DB knocked Lockette off his feet. Everyone else has taken personal responsibility for the play call. To me, the OC throwing a player under the bus in that situation is shameful. His after the fact owning up to calling the play and thus it was on him sounded lame and weak and didn't acknowledge the inherent unnecessary risk associated to the play. It wasn't a good call in the situation. Of course if it had worked Bevell would have looked brilliant.

There are lots of reasons why the game was lost. Baldwin's stupidity contributed, but the D had zero answer for Brady's passing in the 4th Q. The team failed to move the ball well on O until the last drive in the 4th Q. As well the team missed some key conversions on 3rd downs, and otherwise missed many opportunities. The team however had overcome all that and were in a position to take the lead but outsmarted themselves and blew it. I'm still annoyed and disappointed, but acknowledge the Hawks lost rather than the Patriots won.

I'll move on from the unnecessary defeat in time but this was a learning moment that should never be forgotten. The team was one yard away from winning their 2nd consecutive Super Bowl and stole defeat from the jaws of victory or put themselves in a situation where it could happen. There is no doubt Butler made a tremendous read and play. It was weak moment for the coaches and something they should remember. Sometimes you need to go with the percentages instead of rolling the dice.

what could of and should of been...is all I have been thinking this week...feed the beast and its over

I also thought it was strange that Wilson didn't run the ball at all when it was crunch time.

I noticed the Pats were in man coverage as well, but was so engrossed in the game that I didn't really think about Russ not running until much later.

As for what Jammer said, I agree with it for the most part. Lockette and Kearse aren't the most sure handed guys. Kearse in particular is a 50/50 proposition there; he'd proven to be unreliable in the last 2 games with balls bouncing off of his hands, but to win the big game with a big catch....chances are he'd make it happen. He's really clutch in those situations, problem is many times he's put us in those situations.

There are a ton of things that could've happened or gone right for us and we win. The sad fact is that we overcame all of these tiny mistakes and were in position to win it. How many teams feel good having the ball on the 1 yard line, 1 time out, and 20 seconds to go with 3 downs to win a game ? Now compound that with our running game, the Pats lack of short running game defense, and how clutch our team has been. Of course we feel robbed. We let it get away.

I know it sounds like sour grapes or crappy fans. The Steelers-esque Pats fans pervading the internet and being general douches don't really help, but our fans are saying that the Pats didn't win this game, we lost it.

Well, the Pats did all they needed to to win. They made all the plays when it counted. We missed tons of opportunities, and still were in position to win. Yes, we lost the game. Pissed it away in fact. But the Pats still did enough to win. They won the game, AND we lost it for them. Look at the Pats players on the sideline. Look at Brady. They knew. You could see a team that thought they were beaten, to a stunned team that knew they had somehow won.

Bobblehead":39yuc1s6 said:

Pretty much over it. I've concluded that the game was lost with Baldwin's penalty.
Had that not occured, we would have stalled the drive on the 32 yard line instead of the 47 and punting.
Kicked the fg, be up by 13, kick the game winner on the last play..
Angry Deuce has got to go.

Click to expand...

One of the biggest reaches I've ever seen.

Also love how you overlook the ball that hit Kearse in the hands at the Patriots 20 yard line.. that instead was dropped and made us punt to begin with.. but yeah.. game totally turned on that meaningless Baldwin penalty

theENGLISHseahawk":2cjuw1hz said:

Think that's the weird thing about the game. So many moments you can point to. I definitely think the Baldwin penalty shifted some momentum at a time we were rolling.

Click to expand...

How?

The Patriots went 3 and out. It didn't do anything.

Kearse dropping a pass at the Patriots 20 swung the momentum. Not Baldwin pooping a football

Hasselbeck":2zupn8s2 said:

theENGLISHseahawk":2zupn8s2 said:

Think that's the weird thing about the game. So many moments you can point to. I definitely think the Baldwin penalty shifted some momentum at a time we were rolling.

Click to expand...

How?

The Patriots went 3 and out. It didn't do anything.

Kearse dropping a pass at the Patriots 20 swung the momentum. Not Baldwin pooping a football

Click to expand...

Shhhh... Don't point out that Baldwin's penalty didn't have any effect on the outcome because the Pats went 3 and out the next drive. It's easier for people that don't know anything about the Xs and Os of football to blame an opinionated player that gets a penalty for their loss than it is for them to blame it on a coach for calling an absolutely horrible play at the end of the game.

Hasselbeck":38v4dtdp said:

Bobblehead":38v4dtdp said:

Pretty much over it. I've concluded that the game was lost with Baldwin's penalty.
Had that not occured, we would have stalled the drive on the 32 yard line instead of the 47 and punting.
Kicked the fg, be up by 13, kick the game winner on the last play..
Angry Deuce has got to go.

Click to expand...

One of the biggest reaches I've ever seen.

Also love how you overlook the ball that hit Kearse in the hands at the Patriots 20 yard line.. that instead was dropped and made us punt to begin with.. but yeah.. game totally turned on that meaningless Baldwin penalty

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After the Pats went 3 and out.
We drove to the Patriots 47 yard line.

because of the penalty, the Pats had good field position and put us back deep in out territory, had the Pats taken the ball on their own 20 instead of the 35.. we would have had great field position.

Think what you may, but yeah, I believe that penalty cost us.

We could have been kicking a FG at the 32 instead of punting on the 47.

Go ahead, re watch the end of the 3rd quarter.. read the play by play..

firebee":5a48rn1x said:

Hasselbeck":5a48rn1x said:

theENGLISHseahawk":5a48rn1x said:

Think that's the weird thing about the game. So many moments you can point to. I definitely think the Baldwin penalty shifted some momentum at a time we were rolling.

Click to expand...

How?

The Patriots went 3 and out. It didn't do anything.

Kearse dropping a pass at the Patriots 20 swung the momentum. Not Baldwin pooping a football

Click to expand...

Shhhh... Don't point out that Baldwin's penalty didn't have any effect on the outcome because the Pats went 3 and out the next drive. It's easier for people that don't know anything about the Xs and Os of football to blame an opinionated player that gets a penalty for their loss than it is for them to blame it on a coach for calling an absolutely horrible play at the end of the game.

Click to expand...

It's not about Kearse dropping the pass, or getting it blocked. its' about the field position to start with.
Instead of starting at the 20, we start at the 35.. huge difference.

Plenty of blame to go around, Bevell, RW, Kearse, Baldwin, Lockette. Oh, mostly offense.

Bobblehead":49plw2ak said:

firebee":49plw2ak said:

Hasselbeck":49plw2ak said:

theENGLISHseahawk":49plw2ak said:

Think that's the weird thing about the game. So many moments you can point to. I definitely think the Baldwin penalty shifted some momentum at a time we were rolling.

Click to expand...

How?

The Patriots went 3 and out. It didn't do anything.

Kearse dropping a pass at the Patriots 20 swung the momentum. Not Baldwin pooping a football

Click to expand...

Shhhh... Don't point out that Baldwin's penalty didn't have any effect on the outcome because the Pats went 3 and out the next drive. It's easier for people that don't know anything about the Xs and Os of football to blame an opinionated player that gets a penalty for their loss than it is for them to blame it on a coach for calling an absolutely horrible play at the end of the game.

Click to expand...

It's not about Kearse dropping the pass, or getting it blocked. its' about the field position to start with.
Instead of starting at the 20, we start at the 35.. huge difference.

Click to expand...

How on Earth can you say Baldwin's penalty had any impact on the game when the Patriots did nothing on offense the next two drives?

You can't assume the drive begins at the 35 simply because thats what the penalty was. That is absurd. Maybe Walters fair catches at the 25. Maybe he muffs it. Maybe it goes over his head and it is downed inside the 10. Maybe he returns it and there is holding. So many variables.

But you know whats not a variable? A ball hitting a guy in the hands at the 20 and being dropped.

theENGLISHseahawk":3ehfqywi said:

Apologies to those trying to move on. I just had to share this.

The Patriots went big on man coverage and barely offered any pass rush on the final drive. Essentially, they wanted Russell to beat them throwing downfield. The Lynch play is just a masterful job of ML getting open on the slant and go plus a great throw from Wilson. Then they get lucky on the Kearse juggling catch.

But here's the thing -- Wilson takes two downfield shots. The Kearse throw into tight coverage and a shot to Chris Matthews vs Browner (overthrown, CM ends up being the defender).

With the Pats in man coverage, there are HUGE running lanes wide open for Russell. When everyone goes deep as they did, it just opened up underneath. There was zero pass rush, they didn't even try. So often we've see Wilson in this situation play it safe, not go for the 50-50 deep ball but play the percentages. I'm positive he could've had 15 yards on each deep shot running the ball. With the clock on our side and two timeouts I'm not sure why he didn't tuck and run. It never even crossed his mind. He threw two unwise passes and got lucky twice (first time that Browner didn't pick it off, second the Kearse circus act).

Doesn't mean we would've won the game and finished the drive, but the whole thing felt so rushed and panicked. Even on the doomed play, Baldwin and Lynch are lined up incorrectly. I thought at the time we'd end up wasting another time out. It was all so rushed. And when we've won games at the end like Chicago (2012), Tampa Bay (2013) Houston (2014) and Denver (2014) it's been almost robotic -- ice in our veins type of stuff.

The occasion probably didn't help and maybe the three previous stalled drives (zero points) made them second guess themselves. But man, there were some big old rushing lanes there for the taking.

Click to expand...

Russ has said repeatedly he doesn't like to run and he's always looking to pass. Most of the time that's a good thing. Occasionally, however, he misses opportunities for big gains. It keeps him healthy, but it can be frustrating in close games.

.[/quote]

How on Earth can you say Baldwin's penalty had any impact on the game when the Patriots did nothing on offense the next two drives?

You can't assume the drive begins at the 35 simply because thats what the penalty was. That is absurd. Maybe Walters fair catches at the 25. Maybe he muffs it. Maybe it goes over his head and it is downed inside the 10. Maybe he returns it and there is holding. So many variables.

But you know whats not a variable? A ball hitting a guy in the hands at the 20 and being dropped.[/quote]


It's not the Patriots who did nothing.. Its the fact that the Patriots had very good field position due to the penalty.
Yes you are right, Walters could have bumbled it, he could also have fumbled it. Fact is had the Patriots been starting off of their 20 instead of the 35, a lot of things may have been different. Now you talk about variables, ok, well I think thats what we all are here, because, anything other than what the out come was will be based on variables. Had they handed off to Lynch instead, he could have fumbled, thats the line of your argument. I am just playing it as though there was no penalty and how much of a difference it would have or could have made. I"m just saying, that if everything is the same except for the penalty, we would have started ib the 35 and ended at the Pats 32. But, lets play your game once more, perhaps if the Pats punt from the 20, Walters returns it for a td, but thats an absurd variable.

This is no more a what if than to question what if we gave a hand off to Lynch.

Fact is, Baldwins penalty gave the Pats great field position and put us in bad field position... now thats a fact.

BTW, The fact of Kearse's drop was that it was knocked out by the Butler.

There are always a ton of moments you can point to in a close game and say "Man, if only this happened or that happened we would have won". Personally, I feel like the seahawks had a chance to put the game away with a knockout punch when they went up 24-14. The patriots punted on their next 3 drives I believe while the seahawks were already up 10. They had a chance for the knockout blow if they could have got a TD on just one of those drives, but it never came. Credit that to the patriots defense.

Tyakack":mljtngor said:

There are always a ton of moments you can point to in a close game and say "Man, if only this happened or that happened we would have won". Personally, I feel like the seahawks had a chance to put the game away with a knockout punch when they went up 24-14. The patriots punted on their next 3 drives I believe while the seahawks were already up 10. They had a chance for the knockout blow if they could have got a TD on just one of those drives, but it never came. Credit that to the patriots defense.

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Exactly
and because of the Angry Deuce Baldwin we had to start from the 20 instead of probably the 35, where if we did, it would have at least been a fg and in the end..could have kicked the fg to win.