In defense of Kearse on the last play

From the douche's at PFT

"Even though Malcolm Butler made the interception that saved the game, Browner also recognized what was coming (he said he’d seen the play in practice during his time with the Seahawks), got Butler lined up in the right spot, anticipated the attempt to run a pick by the two receivers lined up to the right of the Seattle formation, and jammed Jermaine Kearse hard at the line, preventing him from getting through to Butler.

Browner also admitted to applying a hand to the top of Kearse’s shoulder pads as part of the effort to keep Kearse from getting away. The fight-fire-with-fire move worked; Kearse didn’t make the pick, Russell Wilson threw the ball, and Butler pounced."

I know we all talked about it earlier and how they never would call it in that spot but they definitely could have called holding on Browner. After he recognized the play and got Butler lined up properly.

ukeface:

JTB":2xwchulh said:

From the douche's at PFT

"Even though Malcolm Butler made the interception that saved the game, Browner also recognized what was coming (he said he’d seen the play in practice during his time with the Seahawks), got Butler lined up in the right spot, anticipated the attempt to run a pick by the two receivers lined up to the right of the Seattle formation, and jammed Jermaine Kearse hard at the line, preventing him from getting through to Butler.

Browner also admitted to applying a hand to the top of Kearse’s shoulder pads as part of the effort to keep Kearse from getting away. The fight-fire-with-fire move worked; Kearse didn’t make the pick, Russell Wilson threw the ball, and Butler pounced."

I know we all talked about it earlier and how they never would call it in that spot but they definitely could have called holding on Browner. After he recognized the play and got Butler lined up properly.

ukeface:

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cheaters.

Bobblehead":j33t7m78 said:

JTB":j33t7m78 said:

From the douche's at PFT

"Even though Malcolm Butler made the interception that saved the game, Browner also recognized what was coming (he said he’d seen the play in practice during his time with the Seahawks), got Butler lined up in the right spot, anticipated the attempt to run a pick by the two receivers lined up to the right of the Seattle formation, and jammed Jermaine Kearse hard at the line, preventing him from getting through to Butler.

Browner also admitted to applying a hand to the top of Kearse’s shoulder pads as part of the effort to keep Kearse from getting away. The fight-fire-with-fire move worked; Kearse didn’t make the pick, Russell Wilson threw the ball, and Butler pounced."

I know we all talked about it earlier and how they never would call it in that spot but they definitely could have called holding on Browner. After he recognized the play and got Butler lined up properly.

ukeface:

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cheaters.

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I'm of the mindset that a post should be both intelligent and thought provoking. Yours sir is neither. I'll add your "cheaters" comment to the long list of other sourpusses lurking around the web, mostly in sports-related forums. Duh, winning!

From NFL Rulebook:

A defensive player may not tackle or hold an opponent other than a runner. Otherwise, he may use his hands, arms, or body only:

(a) To defend or protect himself against an obstructing opponent.

Exception: An eligible receiver is considered to be an obstructing opponent ONLY to a point five yards beyond the line of scrimmage unless the player who receives the snap clearly demonstrates no further intention to pass the ball. Within this five-yard zone, a defensive player may chuck an eligible player in front of him. A defensive player is allowed to maintain continuous and unbroken contact within the five-yard zone until a point when the receiver is even with the defender. The defensive player cannot use his hands or arms to push from behind, hang onto, or encircle an eligible receiver in a manner that restricts movement as the play develops. Beyond this five-yard limitation, a defender may use his hands or arms ONLY to defend or protect himself against impending contact caused by a receiver. In such reaction, the defender may not contact a receiver who attempts to take a path to evade him.

This is just another facet of WHY this was the worst call (outside of punting or kicking a field goal) that they could have called here. You're calling a play that requires Kearse to defeat the jam of the biggest cornerback in the game. One whose entire game revolves around this particular tactic... AND one that you have intimate knowledge of, specifically in regards to his mastery of this tactic, since he was one of the original members of your own, vaunted, Legion of Boom!

Every time I think about that, I get furious all over again.

furi0usbee":1ssrzzhh said:

From NFL Rulebook:

A defensive player may not tackle or hold an opponent other than a runner. Otherwise, he may use his hands, arms, or body only:

(a) To defend or protect himself against an obstructing opponent.

Exception: An eligible receiver is considered to be an obstructing opponent ONLY to a point five yards beyond the line of scrimmage unless the player who receives the snap clearly demonstrates no further intention to pass the ball. Within this five-yard zone, a defensive player may chuck an eligible player in front of him. A defensive player is allowed to maintain continuous and unbroken contact within the five-yard zone until a point when the receiver is even with the defender. The defensive player cannot use his hands or arms to push from behind, hang onto, or encircle an eligible receiver in a manner that restricts movement as the play develops. Beyond this five-yard limitation, a defender may use his hands or arms ONLY to defend or protect himself against impending contact caused by a receiver. In such reaction, the defender may not contact a receiver who attempts to take a path to evade him.

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I'm sorry, but you're looking at a different rule. Yes, we all know about the 5 yard rule. That is under (a) Keep reading further down under (f) in the exceptions. When Browner "admits" to something, he is doing so knowing it would be called probably in any other circumstance except for when the officials "let them play" with leniency toward the rulebook. The rule you should be interpreting is this:

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/useofhands
A defensive player may not contact an opponent above the shoulders with the palm of his hand except to ward (means "push") him off on the line. This exception is permitted only if it is not a repeated act against the same opponent during any one contact. In all other cases the palms may be used on head, neck, or face only to ward off or push an opponent in legal attempt to get at the ball.

In this case, Browner wasn't trying to "jam" Kearse from running a route, but rather to "hold" him from doing the job that the Patriot Defense knew was his assignment (and call it a "jam".) So, in the report he is admitting to getting away with what is typically called as a penalty. Nothing new for players to get away with something like that... especially on a play like that at the end (which is why the Hawks should have been running the ball b/c of the ability for the Defense to get away with more.) The Patriots were in big trouble anyway, so of course they did everything they could to make a play and hope to not get called. Can't fault them for that. I still fault the play call.

I would suggest taking it easy, though. Everyone's emotions are shot. I don't see the OP as trying to invent a rule. I only see it as reporting the news. Said PFT, but there was no link.

Go Hawks

JTB":2c67h71p said:

From the douche's at PFT

"Even though Malcolm Butler made the interception that saved the game, Browner also recognized what was coming (he said he’d seen the play in practice during his time with the Seahawks), got Butler lined up in the right spot, anticipated the attempt to run a pick by the two receivers lined up to the right of the Seattle formation, and jammed Jermaine Kearse hard at the line, preventing him from getting through to Butler.

Browner also admitted to applying a hand to the top of Kearse’s shoulder pads as part of the effort to keep Kearse from getting away. The fight-fire-with-fire move worked; Kearse didn’t make the pick, Russell Wilson threw the ball, and Butler pounced."

I know we all talked about it earlier and how they never would call it in that spot but they definitely could have called holding on Browner. After he recognized the play and got Butler lined up properly.

ukeface:

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Sorry but Kearse should have tried to drive through Browner to disrupt butler instead of going limp and asking for a flag like a pu$$y.

furi0usbee":3gvtco4z said:

From NFL Rulebook:

A defensive player may not tackle or hold an opponent other than a runner. Otherwise, he may use his hands, arms, or body only:

(a) To defend or protect himself against an obstructing opponent.

Exception: An eligible receiver is considered to be an obstructing opponent ONLY to a point five yards beyond the line of scrimmage unless the player who receives the snap clearly demonstrates no further intention to pass the ball. Within this five-yard zone, a defensive player may chuck an eligible player in front of him. A defensive player is allowed to maintain continuous and unbroken contact within the five-yard zone until a point when the receiver is even with the defender. The defensive player cannot use his hands or arms to push from behind, hang onto, or encircle an eligible receiver in a manner that restricts movement as the play develops. Beyond this five-yard limitation, a defender may use his hands or arms ONLY to defend or protect himself against impending contact caused by a receiver. In such reaction, the defender may not contact a receiver who attempts to take a path to evade him.

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But, while you're looking at the rulebook... go ahead and watch the 3rd and 14 conversion to Edelman with roughly 10 minutes to go in the 4th (score 24-14) where Brady was suddenly able to step up into the pocket and complete a pass. Watch #66 (Stork?) on Michael Bennett. His right arm is COMPLETELY wrapped around Bennett's left arm and up and over his shoulder. I teach Martial Arts and that's a pretty decent move that will impede anyone from getting anywhere. Oh, and Stork finished it off by "tackling" Bennett to the ground. You go watch that play with rulebook in hand. Good work.

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/useofhands
Note: Pass blocking: Hand(s) thrust forward that slip outside the body of the defender will be legal if blocker immediately worked to bring them back inside. Hand(s) or arm(s) that encircle a defender—i.e., hook an opponent—are to be considered illegal and officials are to call a foul for holding.

"Blocker cannot use his hands or arms to push from behind, hang onto, or encircle an opponent in a manner that restricts his movement as the play develops.
Hands cannot be thrust forward above the frame to contact an opponent on the neck, face or head.

Note: The frame is defined as the part of the opponent’s body below the neck that is presented to the blocker.
A defensive player may not tackle or hold an opponent other than a runner."

andyh64000":1phnpgsx said:

JTB":1phnpgsx said:

From the douche's at PFT

"Even though Malcolm Butler made the interception that saved the game, Browner also recognized what was coming (he said he’d seen the play in practice during his time with the Seahawks), got Butler lined up in the right spot, anticipated the attempt to run a pick by the two receivers lined up to the right of the Seattle formation, and jammed Jermaine Kearse hard at the line, preventing him from getting through to Butler.

Browner also admitted to applying a hand to the top of Kearse’s shoulder pads as part of the effort to keep Kearse from getting away. The fight-fire-with-fire move worked; Kearse didn’t make the pick, Russell Wilson threw the ball, and Butler pounced."

I know we all talked about it earlier and how they never would call it in that spot but they definitely could have called holding on Browner. After he recognized the play and got Butler lined up properly.

ukeface:

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Sorry but Kearse should have tried to drive through Browner to disrupt butler instead of going limp and asking for a flag like a pu$$y.

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Yeah, you're right. Players never think they've been fouled. (By the way, might want to watch the language. This isn't the shack.)

TeamoftheCentury":3tkhsjed said:

andyh64000":3tkhsjed said:

JTB":3tkhsjed said:

From the douche's at PFT

"Even though Malcolm Butler made the interception that saved the game, Browner also recognized what was coming (he said he’d seen the play in practice during his time with the Seahawks), got Butler lined up in the right spot, anticipated the attempt to run a pick by the two receivers lined up to the right of the Seattle formation, and jammed Jermaine Kearse hard at the line, preventing him from getting through to Butler.

Browner also admitted to applying a hand to the top of Kearse’s shoulder pads as part of the effort to keep Kearse from getting away. The fight-fire-with-fire move worked; Kearse didn’t make the pick, Russell Wilson threw the ball, and Butler pounced."

I know we all talked about it earlier and how they never would call it in that spot but they definitely could have called holding on Browner. After he recognized the play and got Butler lined up properly.

ukeface:

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Sorry but Kearse should have tried to drive through Browner to disrupt butler instead of going limp and asking for a flag like a pu$$y.

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Yeah, you're right. Players never think they've been fouled.

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I don't have a problem with him asking for a flag...I have a problem with him realizing he was being held and giving up and asking for the flag. He went limp and didn't even move Browner.

Everyone, including our OC who called the idiotic play, is blaming Lockette...maybe Kearse should have tried harder to do his f***ing job.

Man Browner is a baller . Flat out . Right after the play I said why browners side ??? He is a beast and is the definition of clutch . Congrats to Browner! BOO GOO for the rest of us . It's been a tough week but life must go on :thirishdrinkers:

We needed a bigger WR...or TE on that play. I bet if we had Zach Miller, that might not have happened. Still not sure why Chris Matthews was not in on Red Zone packages.

andyh64000":y7f1e0q2 said:

TeamoftheCentury":y7f1e0q2 said:

andyh64000":y7f1e0q2 said:

JTB":y7f1e0q2 said:

From the douche's at PFT

"Even though Malcolm Butler made the interception that saved the game, Browner also recognized what was coming (he said he’d seen the play in practice during his time with the Seahawks), got Butler lined up in the right spot, anticipated the attempt to run a pick by the two receivers lined up to the right of the Seattle formation, and jammed Jermaine Kearse hard at the line, preventing him from getting through to Butler.

Browner also admitted to applying a hand to the top of Kearse’s shoulder pads as part of the effort to keep Kearse from getting away. The fight-fire-with-fire move worked; Kearse didn’t make the pick, Russell Wilson threw the ball, and Butler pounced."

I know we all talked about it earlier and how they never would call it in that spot but they definitely could have called holding on Browner. After he recognized the play and got Butler lined up properly.

ukeface:

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Sorry but Kearse should have tried to drive through Browner to disrupt butler instead of going limp and asking for a flag like a pu$$y.

Click to expand...

Yeah, you're right. Players never think they've been fouled.

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I don't have a problem with him asking for a flag...I have a problem with him realizing he was being held and giving up and asking for the flag. He went limp and didn't even move Browner.

Everyone, including our OC who called the idiotic play, is blaming Lockette...maybe Kearse should have tried harder to do his f***ing job.

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Ah, Gotcha. Sorry, my mistake (sincerely this time.) I didn't understand that's where you were going with it. Still, like it's been said... Browner is a beast. Tough assignment. Perhaps Kearse needed to know the situation that he's not likely going to get a flag. You and I both know that players can sometimes draw flags by trying to bring attention to it. Maybe that was it.

In replays, Browner's hand was a grab of the shoulder pad. It technically was holding but ref's are not going to call that unless it was more obvious than that.

I'd also agree that Kearse should have been more aggressive there as should have Lockette.

If that was the opposite and they called a hold we would all be talking about the rigged NFL. That was a good no-call whatever the rule book says.

Once again - you don't run that play there. If you pass the opponent should think you may be running. You make them guess

mikeak":1gg9ui8g said:

If that was the opposite and they called a hold we would all be talking about the rigged NFL. That was a good no-call whatever the rule book says.

Once again - you don't run that play there. If you pass the opponent should think you may be running. You make them guess

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I wouldn't go as far as to call it a "good" no call. If it's illegal, it's illegal. But, I'm not arguing that it doesn't typically get called. Seems to me the Hawks were on the wrong end of that with a certain DJack call. So, we gotta make up our minds.
I don't have a problem, like you, with a no call, on the last play. But, I haven't gone back to watch how offensive it may have been. It's not going to help me at this point, so probably wont. "I...am...Bullet-Proof! - Ben Wrightman"

This SB was not decided by officiating like XL (though, there were some bad calls - both ways.) Still, I think if it's an obvious call... ya gotta make it. I think there was an obvious call to be made on that 3rd and 14 by the Patriots (check it out - #66 on Michael Bennett.) I was wondering how Brady was able to finally step up in the pocket. Watch the replay. Stork had an arm lock on Bennett and even tackled him.

The Patriots couldn't stop the pass rush (Bennett was owning them), so they took extra illegal measures in hopes of not getting called. No sour grapes, it just is was it is. The Patriots had nothing to lose there. If I didn't completely trust the NFL , I might think they wanted to keep the game lively with the clock ticking down and a 10 point lead. But, instead of a holding call and replaying the down as 3rd and 24, the Patriots drove the ball down and scored to make it 24-21. That's pretty huge, if you ask me. The Defense had been playing GREAT throughout the 3rd quarter and into the 4th... up until THAT play. From then on, the Patriots seemed to move the ball at will. It was a momentum shifting "no-call".

TeamoftheCentury":3q54z7u0 said:

furi0usbee":3q54z7u0 said:

From NFL Rulebook:

A defensive player may not tackle or hold an opponent other than a runner. Otherwise, he may use his hands, arms, or body only:

(a) To defend or protect himself against an obstructing opponent.

Exception: An eligible receiver is considered to be an obstructing opponent ONLY to a point five yards beyond the line of scrimmage unless the player who receives the snap clearly demonstrates no further intention to pass the ball. Within this five-yard zone, a defensive player may chuck an eligible player in front of him. A defensive player is allowed to maintain continuous and unbroken contact within the five-yard zone until a point when the receiver is even with the defender. The defensive player cannot use his hands or arms to push from behind, hang onto, or encircle an eligible receiver in a manner that restricts movement as the play develops. Beyond this five-yard limitation, a defender may use his hands or arms ONLY to defend or protect himself against impending contact caused by a receiver. In such reaction, the defender may not contact a receiver who attempts to take a path to evade him.

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I'm sorry, but you're looking at a different rule. Yes, we all know about the 5 yard rule. That is under (a) Keep reading further down under (f) in the exceptions. When Browner "admits" to something, he is doing so knowing it would be called probably in any other circumstance except for when the officials "let them play" with leniency toward the rulebook. The rule you should be interpreting is this:

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/useofhands
A defensive player may not contact an opponent above the shoulders with the palm of his hand except to ward (means "push") him off on the line. This exception is permitted only if it is not a repeated act against the same opponent during any one contact. In all other cases the palms may be used on head, neck, or face only to ward off or push an opponent in legal attempt to get at the ball.

In this case, Browner wasn't trying to "jam" Kearse from running a route, but rather to "hold" him from doing the job that the Patriot Defense knew was his assignment (and call it a "jam".)s

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Well that's you saying what Browner was doing. The receiver clearly was running off the line. What determines a route? He could have bumped with Browner, then continued onward to make a play. That is a route. It doesn't matter if the receivers route had the sole purpose of trying to "pick" another defender. Browner was jamming him and trying to keep him in front at all times.

And that rule says he can use his palms to ward him off the line. Contact was made at the line, and the rule goes on to state he can use palms if it's not repeated during any one contact. So what constitutes one contact. He looks like he was with him, locked for a long contact.

The refs wouldn't have called this in the regular season, let alone the Super Bowl.

Bottom Line is... You don't call quick slants against a goalline defense that has inside leverage in coverage with an empty backfield with 3 downs left on the field, regardless if a player is supposed to pick for the slant or not. Throw it to the corner, outs or backside of the endzone, so a receiver catches it or it goes out of bounds. We're doomed to repeat the mistake because the guy that called it won't take responsibility for the call and half the fans want to blame the players for not making an absolutely retarded play work.

imnKOgnito":1enrl61r said:

This is just another facet of WHY this was the worst call (outside of punting or kicking a field goal) that they could have called here. You're calling a play that requires Kearse to defeat the jam of the biggest cornerback in the game. One whose entire game revolves around this particular tactic... AND one that you have intimate knowledge of, specifically in regards to his mastery of this tactic, since he was one of the original members of your own, vaunted, Legion of Boom!

Every time I think about that, I get furious all over again.

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Dumbest play of all time, and it won't go away because well, it was dumb.

firebee":2l34g8kw said:

Bottom Line is... You don't call quick slants against a goalline defense that has inside leverage in coverage with an empty backfield with 3 downs left on the field, regardless if a player is supposed to pick for the slant or not. Throw it to the corner, outs or backside of the endzone, so a receiver catches it or it goes out of bounds. We're doomed to repeat the mistake because the guy that called it won't take responsibility for the call and half the fans want to blame the players for not making an absolutely retarded play work.

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Another bee buzzing 'round here. Nice!