Wagner and Wilson not going to get done this year?

Tical21 · Mar 19, 2015

Mitch in the Morning did "Mr. Salary Cap" today, saying we have about 8 million left. He says you figure we save a few million for draft picks, and a few million for IR replacements during the season, and that leaves us with like 4 million to spend on extensions and free agents right now.

Seems like a scary proposition. Do we risk ruffling some feathers? I can see doing it with a linebacker, but to ruffle your QB's feathers? Maybe Russell got himself written into Paul Allen's will instead.

kidhawk · Mar 19, 2015

Tical21":2bvzzczo said:
Mitch in the Morning did "Mr. Salary Cap" today, saying we have about 8 million left. He says you figure we save a few million for draft picks, and a few million for IR replacements during the season, and that leaves us with like 4 million to spend on extensions and free agents right now.

Seems like a scary proposition. Do we risk ruffling some feathers? I can see doing it with a linebacker, but to ruffle your QB's feathers? Maybe Russell got himself written into Paul Allen's will instead.

There are really only two options here:

1) Mitch has no clue how teams work the cap

2) Mitch knows full well that there are plenty of ways to get these extensions done, but wants to create some stir for his show.

Hyak · Mar 19, 2015

They had 14.1 M in cap space going into today. You need about half of that to cover draft picks, IR, and the PS.

Not to mention that any new deals for Wilson and Wagner will likely have non-substantial 2015 cap increases.

Sports Hernia · Mar 19, 2015

kidhawk":220djxo2 said:
Tical21":220djxo2 said:

Mitch in the Morning did "Mr. Salary Cap" today, saying we have about 8 million left. He says you figure we save a few million for draft picks, and a few million for IR replacements during the season, and that leaves us with like 4 million to spend on extensions and free agents right now.

Seems like a scary proposition. Do we risk ruffling some feathers? I can see doing it with a linebacker, but to ruffle your QB's feathers? Maybe Russell got himself written into Paul Allen's will instead.

Click to expand...

There are really only two options here:

1) Mitch has no clue how teams work the cap

2) Mitch knows full well that there are plenty of ways to get these extensions done, but wants to create some stir for his show.

I'd go with 1 and 2. 8)

Basis4day · Mar 19, 2015

Sherman/Thomas contracts were announced last Late April/Early May. Kam's was announced in late April the year before.
All three were somewhat announced randomly without a lot of warning IIRC.

Why the rush people? It's not like they're not working on them.

Scottemojo · Mar 19, 2015

Tical21":1400jooq said:
Mitch in the Morning did "Mr. Salary Cap" today, saying we have about 8 million left. He says you figure we save a few million for draft picks, and a few million for IR replacements during the season, and that leaves us with like 4 million to spend on extensions and free agents right now.

Seems like a scary proposition. Do we risk ruffling some feathers? I can see doing it with a linebacker, but to ruffle your QB's feathers? Maybe Russell got himself written into Paul Allen's will instead.

Wilson and Wagner both have a year left. They would get contract extensions. Their salary for 2015 is unlikely to change. Seattle could, and may, spread the signing bonuses they would get over the remaining years of their deals and it would not cost then much if any extra cap dollars in 2015.

Which makes the radio convo over it kind of pointless.

Hawkfan77 · Mar 19, 2015

Mitch was wrong we have more than 8 million

Ziggyy108 · Mar 19, 2015

We still have more cap space than that.

We don't have a first round pick so no rookie coming in will be making over a million dollars.

There are still guys that can be cut to free up plenty more cap if need be.

Pete and John have done a pretty masterful job at managing the cap.

mikeak · Mar 19, 2015

You can also resign any player on the roster and move money from guaranteed to signing bonus that way and spread their cap hit over remaining years.......

not saying we are there yet but it is always an option

onanygivensunday · Mar 19, 2015

And Bane is likely a cap casualty as well as a $5.5M savings.

Best for the Hawks to wait on extending both players until FA spins itself out.

Why show your cards before you have to.

Foolish to do otherwise.

kearly · Mar 19, 2015

The team had roughly $29 million in space before the big offseason moves began. The Lynch extension didn't change his 2015 cap hit. The net of the Graham trade was only something like $4.6 million net cap hit. Cary Williams 2015 cap hit was around $4-5 million I think. So basically, Seattle should have roughly $20 million left, not counting small moves for camp bodies that are unlikely to impact the cap negatively.

They also need far less than $4 million to sign their picks, since they dealt away their first round picks and the rest of their selections will basically make minimum money, replacing other guys who were making minimum money.

Kaepernick's extension came a year early, and because of that his year one cap hit was very small, I think it was around $10 million. Wilson and Wagner would be signing a year early, so their first year cap hit would be a small one. The Hawks easily have enough money to fit both in the budget right now, especially considering the cap growth in 2015 and 2016 and the dead money that will come off the books next year (Harvin).

Seattle knows how to budget. They aren't Al Davis or Jerry Jones. When they signed KJ Wright to way too much money, it was a sign that Seattle actually had a lot of cash to blow and felt that Wright was worth burning that cash on. I am assuming Miller was cut for health reasons.

jlwaters1 · Mar 19, 2015

JTB":1506qijm said:
They had 14.1 M in cap space going into today. You need about half of that to cover draft picks, IR, and the PS.

Not to mention that any new deals for Wilson and Wagner will likely have non-substantial 2015 cap increases.

I agree, from what I understand a new deal at this time is technically an extension to the rookie contract, the base salary would stay the same for this coming year, it's just they'd get a massive signing bonus.

Pandion Haliaetus · Mar 19, 2015

I think Wagner is the one they get done this year.

I think Russ will get a monster signing bonus like 35-40m across and I believe the out of box approach to his contract will be for Wilson to wait a year so they can play him on a low base for 2016 bc signing bonus then have him take his big cap hits after 2017 when the Seahawks will have significantly more cap.

So I think Wagner is the one to get done this year.

Then I think you'll see Irvin and Sweezy extensions in 2016 with Russ to again play them on cheaper cap hits for 2016 and then push the bigger cap hits down the road.

The hardest one to gauge is Okung. A part of me wants him re-signed but I also feel his contract should be Jared Veldheer cheap. He's not a 10m OT and I'd would let him walk at anything over 8.5m. I have no clue what they'll do with him, its anybody's guess at this point. But he also represents a likely 3rd round comp if he hits the open market.

Laloosh · Mar 19, 2015

Pandion Haliaetus":2psuf3p6 said:
I think Wagner is the one they get done this year.

I think Russ will get a monster signing bonus like 35-40m across and I believe the out of box approach to his contract will be for Wilson to wait a year so they can play him on a low base for 2016 bc signing bonus then have him take his big cap hits after 2017 when the Seahawks will have significantly more cap.

So I think Wagner is the one to get done this year.

Then I think you'll see Irvin and Sweezy extensions in 2016 with Russ to again play them on cheaper cap hits for 2016 and then push the bigger cap hits down the road.

The hardest one to gauge is Okung. A part of me wants him re-signed but I also feel his contract should be Jared Veldheer cheap. He's not a 10m OT and I'd would let him walk at anything over 8.5m. I have no clue what they'll do with him, its anybody's guess at this point. But he also represents a likely 3rd round comp if he hits the open market.

Only thing that worries me about russ playing out his 2015 contract is that we'd then have to worry about another team throwing a huge deal his way if he waits to gauge the market.

warden · Mar 19, 2015

Scottemojo":3ou3qa60 said:
Tical21":3ou3qa60 said:

Mitch in the Morning did "Mr. Salary Cap" today, saying we have about 8 million left. He says you figure we save a few million for draft picks, and a few million for IR replacements during the season, and that leaves us with like 4 million to spend on extensions and free agents right now.

Seems like a scary proposition. Do we risk ruffling some feathers? I can see doing it with a linebacker, but to ruffle your QB's feathers? Maybe Russell got himself written into Paul Allen's will instead.

Click to expand...

Wilson and Wagner both have a year left. They would get contract extensions. Their salary for 2015 is unlikely to change. Seattle could, and may, spread the signing bonuses they would get over the remaining years of their deals and it would not cost then much if any extra cap dollars in 2015.

Which makes the radio convo over it kind of pointless.

This ^^^^^^

Bigbadhawk · Mar 19, 2015

kearly":27phtqiq said:
The team had roughly $29 million in space before the big offseason moves began. The Lynch extension didn't change his 2015 cap hit. The net of the Graham trade was only something like $4.6 million net cap hit. Cary Williams 2015 cap hit was around $4-5 million I think. So basically, Seattle should have roughly $20 million left, not counting small moves for camp bodies that are unlikely to impact the cap negatively.

They also need far less than $4 million to sign their picks, since they dealt away their first round picks and the rest of their selections will basically make minimum money, replacing other guys who were making minimum money.

Kaepernick's extension came a year early, and because of that his year one cap hit was very small, I think it was around $10 million. Wilson and Wagner would be signing a year early, so their first year cap hit would be a small one. The Hawks easily have enough money to fit both in the budget right now, especially considering the cap growth in 2015 and 2016 and the dead money that will come off the books next year (Harvin).

Seattle knows how to budget. They aren't Al Davis or Jerry Jones. When they signed KJ Wright to way too much money, it was a sign that Seattle actually had a lot of cash to blow and felt that Wright was worth burning that cash on. I am assuming Miller was cut for health reasons.

Before today's signing we had about $15M left (this is based on the top 51 contracts on the roster). Yes we don't have a 1st round pick but we have 4 comp picks to pay. If you look up the 2014 rookie pay scale for those rounds you can expect us to pay just over $5M (about $5.1M) for our rookies this year which is about equal to if we had our first round pick but no comp picks. Not including today's signing and if you take out the money for the rookies we have around $10M as of this morning.

I expect them both to be signed this spring after the draft but I wanted to clarify our current cap numbers due to some confusing from the numbers you provided.

Pandion Haliaetus · Mar 19, 2015

Laloosh":1utube62 said:
Pandion Haliaetus":1utube62 said:

I think Wagner is the one they get done this year.

I think Russ will get a monster signing bonus like 35-40m across and I believe the out of box approach to his contract will be for Wilson to wait a year so they can play him on a low base for 2016 bc signing bonus then have him take his big cap hits after 2017 when the Seahawks will have significantly more cap.

So I think Wagner is the one to get done this year.

Then I think you'll see Irvin and Sweezy extensions in 2016 with Russ to again play them on cheaper cap hits for 2016 and then push the bigger cap hits down the road.

The hardest one to gauge is Okung. A part of me wants him re-signed but I also feel his contract should be Jared Veldheer cheap. He's not a 10m OT and I'd would let him walk at anything over 8.5m. I have no clue what they'll do with him, its anybody's guess at this point. But he also represents a likely 3rd round comp if he hits the open market.

Click to expand...

Only thing that worries me about russ playing out his 2015 contract is that we'd then have to worry about another team throwing a huge deal his way if he waits to gauge the market.

I think that's why they'd get Wagner first and save the franchise tag. But you have to wonder for both sides to wait another year that they already have a frame of a deal that will give Russ what he deserves.

Right now to fit under the cap your looking at like a 14-20 signing bonus tops for Wilson And then you'd start taking big bases next year where'd he likely cost 15-20m if he wants top QB money. That will significantly lower the cap.

Lets say you give him 40m SB in 2016 with a base Sal of 2m, he'd cost 10m against and the Seahawks in 2017 could afford to pay him in 20-25m range cap hits for the rest of the contract.

Tical21 · Mar 19, 2015

Yeah they can't afford much of a signing bonus at all, which is of course the problem. I guess they could throw huge guarantees throughout the contract instead of signing bonus, but I'm guessing Russ is gonna want a big chunk up front.

Also, Graham's number against the cap is supposedly 8+ this year, and 2M for Unger in dead money. Mitch explains it on the radio show much better than I could.

Here is the link to the episode:

http://www.iheart.com/show/Mitch-in-the ... d=27187043

Pretty good stuff. I don't know how we got this idea where we could re-sign Russell and take a cap hit less than 10 million. I don't see it.

I'll ask the question again, does not signing Wilson this season damage his relationship with the team at all?

Anthony! · Mar 19, 2015

Okay first we have about 14.2 mil right now

http://old.seattletimes.com/html/seahaw ... 17xml.html

The link explains how they can do both so the answer is they can still do both.

As to if they did not and they made Wilson wait, The potential for it to cause problems is there, it depends what they say to Wilson. Now some will say so they will just tag him , however as I am sure some here know that creates huge ill will, and I would bet Wilson would hold out until they agree not to tag him, in which case at that point, there would be ill will. The reality is if the FO believes Wilson is the Franchise QB then they need to sign him this year and not make him wait. It sends a bad message to the team and to Wilson.

I believe he will be signed this year.

lobohawk · Mar 19, 2015

Laloosh":1rldl1ob said:
Pandion Haliaetus":1rldl1ob said:

I think Wagner is the one they get done this year.

I think Russ will get a monster signing bonus like 35-40m across and I believe the out of box approach to his contract will be for Wilson to wait a year so they can play him on a low base for 2016 bc signing bonus then have him take his big cap hits after 2017 when the Seahawks will have significantly more cap.

So I think Wagner is the one to get done this year.

Then I think you'll see Irvin and Sweezy extensions in 2016 with Russ to again play them on cheaper cap hits for 2016 and then push the bigger cap hits down the road.

The hardest one to gauge is Okung. A part of me wants him re-signed but I also feel his contract should be Jared Veldheer cheap. He's not a 10m OT and I'd would let him walk at anything over 8.5m. I have no clue what they'll do with him, its anybody's guess at this point. But he also represents a likely 3rd round comp if he hits the open market.

Click to expand...

Only thing that worries me about russ playing out his 2015 contract is that we'd then have to worry about another team throwing a huge deal his way if he waits to gauge the market.

Not worried about Wilson being Lured away by a bag of cash. Wilson loves this org and team. As long as they pay him a reasonable amount, he'll stay.

Wagner and Wilson not going to get done this year?

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