Finally Re-Watched It (or, Veta Beats the Horse)

**Mods, sorry for starting a new thread.. taking a different tack on things and there isnt an active thread, because most people have more sense than me and are trying to move on.


Ok.. Watched it. Re watched it rather, this time to the end. On the day of the actual Super Bowl I didnt actually see the last 20 seconds after the interception.

Knowing what we know now, I think adds a lot to the conversation, as does 2 months of calming down.

Im going to come right out and say it, and let the bashing begin: I dont blame Bevell. Not at all. Well, I mean.. the final play call could have been something else, but thats not even the play call I question the most. But the last play is so heart wrenching and heart breaking its so easy to focus on.

But with 10 minutes to play and a 10 point lead.. but lose by 4? That doesnt mean I blame the defense either. Knowing what we know now... I mean, the team puts its money into the defense. Its highest paid offensive player last year wasnt on the team anymore. Outside of Wilson and Lynch, the big guns, the big money guys, the dudes you want the game in the hands of.. they are all on defense. But they were just too beat up. Watching the game, watching Earl not be Earl..and Kam being a tad slower and a straight line guy and Sherman playing one armed.. we just didnt have the guns on defense to shut them down. Our offense did what it does..it got us 24 points against a very , very good team. The last play ...the last play... But..if that drive never even gets that far then there is no cry to fire Bevell. Its all in the pain of the ending.

But Bevel got us there even though he was playing on a shoe string budget. Carroll gave him: 4 UDFAs at WR, a 5th rounder and street walk ons at TE..a street walk on at FB. And Bevell got us the 9th ranked offense. Hes the only OC to make the the read option more than a gimmick. Hes the only OC who would line up Lynch on the OUTSIDE...and get him catches. I dont think Bevell is amazing...but I think he is good with room for improvement and I feel confident Carroll will deal with those issues with him and get better.

A couple other observations from the re-watching... Isnt putting KJ Wright one on one with Gronk at least as bad a play call as Bevell made for our last play? Especially knowing his help is Kam, who didnt have his full speed or knee stability to make proper changes of direction?

I watched Lynch got stuffed on 3rd and 1, twice during the game.

People say Lockette didnt go hard for the ball. I think he went for it normally..and if he had gone "harder" for it, he would have had to catch it at the 1 yard line and been tackled there. That isnt what the play was meant to do. As it was, it looks like if he got it he wouldnt have been in anyway. Pats #21 made a play.

In hindsight, maybe all CBs and DBs should have been active? Knowing who was hurt,maybe Burley AND Simon should have been active. I know Simon was probably active in case Sherman aggravated something and that seemed to be the bigger concern..but injuries are partly random.

Some people have gotten on Simons case for crying for a flag after every play. But if you watch the all 22 Im not sure he doesnt have a case. Edelman constantly pushes off or hand grabs.

Simon I had given up on but now I think he can be coached up. with his size he needs to be positioning and playing to take away one side which he doesnt and leaves himself open to quick moves and crosses , but I really think he can improve and be a quality player.


Obviously the Super Bowl felt a lot different watching it again. I was surprised at how much it didnt hurt when I realized really, the injuries meant they had to struggle on D. And when thats the side youve put most of your money into, well, bad luck.

It was a great game though.. just an unbelievably tough to swallow ending.

Mods, if this is overly beating the dead horse, feel free to delete. Writing it was cathartic. I just needed the closure.

Losing the 10 point lead wasn't just on the defense, in my opinion. Yes, the team has ridden that side of the ball as part of its game plan. But the other is Lynch and pounding the other team into submission, killing clock and just leaving the other team's offense (in this case, Tom Brady) on the sideline with their own offense. After the 10 point lead, the Seahawks missed a handful of chances to extend drives and add points. With a defense as short staffed and hurt as it was, i feel this was critical.

Almost a perfect storm of events for the Patriots to get back into it. It was a great game though, and really both teams probably deserved to win it

Thanks for this writeup.

I'm amazed that as beat up and short-handed that our team was, we were still one play away from winning the Super Bowl. SHOULD have won the Super Bowl. It shows just how great a team that Pete and John have assembled.

I don't blame Bevell either. That exact play has worked perfectly before in a similar situation and there was nothing to say It wouldn't work this time.

He's just the easy target for everyone to vent their anger at, I even did it right afterwards.

original poster":14sepfzd said:

I don't blame Bevell either. That exact play has worked perfectly before in a similar situation and there was nothing to say It wouldn't work this time.

He's just the easy target for everyone to vent their anger at, I even did it right afterwards.

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yea..Ive completely evolved. I went from "damn Bevell" to "damn play call" to.. "damn..".

Lynch got stuffed on two other 3 and 1s or 2s, and Turbin on another. I wouldnt even say short yardage is really Lynches forte. Lots of other stuff to call there..and Salk said it best "you dance with one you came with"..Let Wilson make a play. But its one play. The KJ Wright on Gronk is just as bad.. a couple 3rd and 8s given up.

The defense gave up 3 late scores.. but that doesnt mean I blame them. Like others have said, we were perhaps lucky to be in given the state of the LOB in particular and I do think Bevell showed great creativity...Lynch split wide, NOT as a decoy. Matthews no catches all year used as a weapon....

Two great teams and someone has to lose and this time we did. It will ALWAYS hurt. But I dont blame anyone.

I think one if the reasons it'd do hard to let this go is how close we were in spite of everything. If we have just one of Jordan Hill, Paul Richardson, Cliff Avri or Jeremy Lane we probably win. Even then if a different play is called or its executed just a *hair* better... again we probably win.


I say blame the universe.

Uncle Si":1f9hs8os said:

Almost a perfect storm of events for the Patriots to get back into it. It was a great game though, and really both teams probably deserved to win it

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With how beat up our Defense was before and during this game, I thought it was extraordinary that it all came down to one single play to decide the winner.
This is pretty accurate and in my point of view, the most truthful statement of how that game finished out.
ONE play, that could have gone either way, was almost perfectly Defensed.
Here's to better health next time, Seahawks :thirishdrinkers:

After having time to digest it I'm not upset at the actual play call even though I think there are numerous passing plays that would of been much better. I don't know if its arrogance, lack of concentration in the big moment or what it is but thinking Kearse was going to beat Browner at the line of scrimmage on a dangerous pass play is almost beyond belief to me. IF Kearse does his job its an easy TD. I just think the chances of Kearse beating Browner at the line of scrimmage would fail 100 times out of a 100. It just seems puzzling that Bevell saw that and thought it was a good idea.

I'm with you on Lynch being stuff on 3-1. I think a read option with Wilson was the play as he only had a middle linebacker to beat to the corner but regardless the play call would of worked if Kearse was able to get any leverage on Browner. It's just crazy to me that Bevell actually believed Kearse would be successful against Browner.

I'm with you on the WR's as a whole and Bevell doing a good job overall considering what he's working with. I also think Simon will surprise us this year. If its true that he played with a dislocated shoulder then that explains quite a bit.

Great write up Vetamur. I have to agree with you that it's the heart-wrenching part of the last seconds that makes one want to blame Bevell. To go from winning the Superbowl to losing it in one split-second hurts.

Can you imagine how hard that has been on Russell?

I think it's insane to not blame Bevell for a 3 WR 1 RB formation on 2nd and goal from the 1. But blame him 100% for the loss? Definitely not. It was a culmination of so many things, Bevell getting cute was just one bad play.

Still, it would be nice if Bevell and Pete learned their lesson, and I don't think they did. That's part of the reason I'm so enthused about the Graham trade, as it basically amounts to giving Bevell a bumper car to crash the next time he thinks he's being secretly clever. A higher percentage of those stupid decisions will pay off with a 6'7" power forward to chuck the ball to.

kearly":1c5c3vd1 said:

I think it's insane to not blame Bevell for a 3 WR 1 RB formation on 2nd and goal from the 1. But blame him 100% for the loss? Definitely not. It was a culmination of so many things, Bevell getting cute was just one bad play.

Still, it would be nice if Bevell and Pete learned their lesson, and I don't think they did. That's part of the reason I'm so enthused about the Graham trade, as it basically amounts to giving Bevell a bumper car to crash the next time he thinks he's being secretly clever. A higher percentage of those stupid decisions will pay off with a 6'7" power forward to chuck the ball to.

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I don't blame Bevell for the formation or the play call, I blame him for the personnel chosen to be in that formation with that play call. The best blocker on the field was Lockette but he wasn't the one to do the blocking. The best receiver in the game was on the sideline and the Seahawks smallest receiver was blocking the biggest cornerback in the NFL. To me, that is just DUMB.

You said this much better than I did. The personnel used in that package made no sense.

Kearly great point on Graham too.

kearly":v67ffl5k said:

I think it's insane to not blame Bevell for a 3 WR 1 RB formation on 2nd and goal from the 1. But blame him 100% for the loss? Definitely not. It was a culmination of so many things, Bevell getting cute was just one bad play.

Still, it would be nice if Bevell and Pete learned their lesson, and I don't think they did. That's part of the reason I'm so enthused about the Graham trade, as it basically amounts to giving Bevell a bumper car to crash the next time he thinks he's being secretly clever. A higher percentage of those stupid decisions will pay off with a 6'7" power forward to chuck the ball to.

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Didn't the Pat's run out their Goalline Defense? This is part of Bevell being cute instead of playing a power/Run-Option play.

Veta... this horse will be beaten to death until the end of time. At least you have brought a new perspective on it.

I think all games are filled with good calls, and bad calls. Most of the time they are situational, and often times the plays just don't work. Often due to bad design, but also poor execution. No play call is EVER designed to result in a turnover. Turnovers, in my humble opinion, are almost always bad execution. It was 2nd down. No reason to force things. 3rd down would have been something totally different. In my fantasies, I see #3 juking a guy and scoring easily.

I'm a peace with it. Certainly much sooner than I was at peace with XL.

Ya know at this point, I've gotten over the loss. I don't blame anyone I love the effort given by everyone.


What pisses me off was how classless the Pats players/Fans were after the SB during their parade. Lost any and all respect I had for the organization, players, and fans. Although now that legacy teams get more and more preferential treatment, I've become harder to like the NFL. (Love my hawks, but hate the NFL)

rideaducati":19fjkgaf said:

kearly":19fjkgaf said:

I think it's insane to not blame Bevell for a 3 WR 1 RB formation on 2nd and goal from the 1. But blame him 100% for the loss? Definitely not. It was a culmination of so many things, Bevell getting cute was just one bad play.

Still, it would be nice if Bevell and Pete learned their lesson, and I don't think they did. That's part of the reason I'm so enthused about the Graham trade, as it basically amounts to giving Bevell a bumper car to crash the next time he thinks he's being secretly clever. A higher percentage of those stupid decisions will pay off with a 6'7" power forward to chuck the ball to.

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I don't blame Bevell for the formation or the play call, I blame him for the personnel chosen to be in that formation with that play call. The best blocker on the field was Lockette but he wasn't the one to do the blocking. The best receiver in the game was on the sideline and the Seahawks smallest receiver was blocking the biggest cornerback in the NFL. To me, that is just DUMB.

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Bingo...the personnel chosen was horrendous. Why was a 6'5, 220 WR (best WR on the Seahawks for that game) on the sideline on a pass play? It just seems that common sense eludes Bevell at times. Unfortunately, it happened at the most crucial point in the game. The fact that it's the one thing shown time and time again in highlights or lowlights from the SB just exacerbates it. 99% percent of the nation who watched the game is laughing at the stupidity of that play.

rideaducati":23nvxr98 said:

kearly":23nvxr98 said:

I think it's insane to not blame Bevell for a 3 WR 1 RB formation on 2nd and goal from the 1. But blame him 100% for the loss? Definitely not. It was a culmination of so many things, Bevell getting cute was just one bad play.

Still, it would be nice if Bevell and Pete learned their lesson, and I don't think they did. That's part of the reason I'm so enthused about the Graham trade, as it basically amounts to giving Bevell a bumper car to crash the next time he thinks he's being secretly clever. A higher percentage of those stupid decisions will pay off with a 6'7" power forward to chuck the ball to.

Click to expand...

I don't blame Bevell for the formation or the play call, I blame him for the personnel chosen to be in that formation with that play call. The best blocker on the field was Lockette but he wasn't the one to do the blocking. The best receiver in the game was on the sideline and the Seahawks smallest receiver was blocking the biggest cornerback in the NFL. To me, that is just DUMB.

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You have a point.

But 1) Kearse is 6'1, 210. He's not a twig or the smallest WR on the team.

I think you eluded to Matthews on the sideline as being the Seahawks best WR about that, if you wanted to run a rub route you don't do it against Browner.

If Matthews was on the field lined up in Baldwin's ace with Baldwin coming over for Kearse. The pick play comes down between Baldwin and Revis. We saw Kearse get man-handled all game by Browner. We also saw Revis get picked by a ref. So Baldwin blocking Revis likely had a higher chance of success than Kearse vs Browner.

But Seahawks didn't want to waste a timeout to get everyone on the same page and they went with the guys that had the most practice and preparation in such an event.

I also don't think Lockette was a bad call looking back on it. He was the only WR in the game earning credible separation with quickness. And he has a good sense of becoming a defender and keeping the ball away from the defender.

I think in the end, Russ threw it too soon, a little behind, off-market, and a bullet. And I don't think he expected Butler to crash in so hard or if it all with proper execution, Lockette would have walked in untouched.

But an early throw by Russ, bad execution on Kearse, great coaching by the Pats, an extraordinary play by Butler, and a pressure cooker moment for Lockette was the recipe for disaster.

A TD would have been better throw by Russ and Kearse executing his block.

Early throw, executed block by Kearse probably would have resulted in an incomplete pass.

Perfect pass, poorly executed block likely means Lockette either catches it and tries to make a play to the end zone draped by Butler or he simply knocks it down.

But it was a perfect storm for the Patriots: errant throw by Russ, hesitation/nervousness by Lockette, Kearse with poor execution or just overmatched by Browner, all by a Patriots D that knew what the Seahawks were doing allowed Butler to make an extraordinary play.

I won't place blame on that last play though. What happened happened.

And I have no doubts if both teams were injury free and at full health... Which team would have won.

Seahawks played a hell of a game, and to come that close, with everything they went through during that game and during the season. I just don't know how any fan can continue to let that one play dominate thier emotion.

Uncle Si":2ei7i4t9 said:

Losing the 10 point lead wasn't just on the defense, in my opinion. Yes, the team has ridden that side of the ball as part of its game plan. But the other is Lynch and pounding the other team into submission, killing clock and just leaving the other team's offense (in this case, Tom Brady) on the sideline with their own offense. After the 10 point lead, the Seahawks missed a handful of chances to extend drives and add points. With a defense as short staffed and hurt as it was, i feel this was critical.

Almost a perfect storm of events for the Patriots to get back into it. It was a great game though, and really both teams probably deserved to win it

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Yeah, it was tough to watch during the game that day. The banged up Defense gave the ball back to the offense several times and if they would have kept any one of those drives going - the outcome likely would have been different. I didn't see any foul on Lockette when he got tripped up. But, I do have a problem with how NE was allowed to continue the drive on that 3rd and 14 play with 10 min to go in the game. I saw obvious holding on Bennett by their Center (Stork). That's the only way Brady could step up in the pocket there with Bennett held and tackled to the ground. Should have been called back and 3rd and 24.

During one of those drive opportunities to kill the clock, I didn't like the play call when they threw deep on 3rd and short to Kearse. Man, just get the first down. I was hollering about that even before it went through Kearse's hands (or it may have been tipped out?) Not going to go back and watch. Point is, they didn't convert. They should have went with a higher percentage call there to move the chains. Yeah, yeah... convert that and they're in great shape. But, they didn't and the risk of that call cost them dearly.

Seeing a few more plays here and there on replays, that last NE Touchdown looked like Edelman did push off (on Simon?)

I can't quite see it as a great game. There's no solace in calling it that for me. There were some exciting moments. But, it was a game for all the marbles. I just think the Hawks could have and perhaps should have put the Patriots away with a bit more ball control with the 10 point lead. I kept saying one more score would put the game away. But, it may have also served to be what open the floodgates for the Hawks as the Patriots would have played more desperately. I think there was enough of a Defense that could have further rattled Brady.

It was there for the taking and they just didn't get it done. :34853_doh:

Simple reality: Seattle will be the butt of jokes for that gag for a long time. Or until winning another one. Truth is, there was a lot of bad offense from Seattle in that game, and in fact we did not play a complete offensive game all year.

hawkfan68":1oiudjfd said:

..........It just seems that common sense eludes Bevell at times. Unfortunately, it happened at the most crucial point in the game. The fact that it's the one thing shown time and time again in highlights or lowlights from the SB just exacerbates it. 99% percent of the nation who watched the game is laughing at the stupidity of that play.

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ivotuk wrote: (about a month and a half ago)...............Never, ever, ever put the fate of a Super Bowl in the hands of Darrell Bevell, Jermaine Kearse, and Ricardo Lockette all three working in unison. Don't make matters more complicated than they need to be when the game's on the line. Instead, put it on your strength.


That covers it for me. I'm happy some of you are OK with how it turned out. I am not and possibly never will be. Not gonna change how hard I root for the Hawks next season and beyond, but I think the only way I get "OK" with it is if our team wins a couple more in the next several years.