Is C. Williams the cause of all this RW drama?

Seahawker86 · Jun 26, 2015

Didn't he just sign a 3 year 18 million contract? So that's 6 million a year. Wouldn't that be more than enough to pay both Wagner and Wilson? It might have cost of if anything Bruce Irvin next year.

Maybe the PC/JS are confident with Simon taking over the starting DB roll.

I like him as a player and I think he IS a perfect fit for our team and scheme. Just not sure if I want to have to pick between Wagner and Wilson

Thoughts?

kidhawk · Jun 26, 2015

To answer the question in the title of the post....No!

We have enough cap money to sign both Wilson and Wagner. Everything comes down to the details of how the contracts are structured.

Seahawker86 · Jun 26, 2015

Yeah but if we had a bigger pot to pull from wouldn't we be able to give RW what he wants?

kidhawk · Jun 26, 2015

kthebestwayw":w36bux8g said:
Yeah but if we had a bigger pot to pull from wouldn't we be able to give RW what he wants?

You place value on players and/or positions. You pay accordingly. If you pay more than you have budgeted for a player/position then you don't have enough money to cover the other players/positions you want/need. They had all these numbers crunched when they signed Williams and it's one of the reasons they didn't go after Maxwell

ivotuk · Jun 26, 2015

kthebestwayw":2tiedlve said:
Didn't he just sign a 3 year 18 million contract? So that's 6 million a year. Wouldn't that be more than enough to pay both Wagner and Wilson? It might have cost of if anything Bruce Irvin next year.

Maybe the PC/JS are confident with Simon taking over the starting DB roll.

I like him as a player and I think he IS a perfect fit for our team and scheme. Just not sure if I want to have to pick between Wagner and Wilson

Thoughts?

Wut? In what reality would this ever happen?

hawknation2015 · Jun 26, 2015

We have enough cap space this season to give Russell the largest signing bonus in NFL history ($37 million), as well as to give Wagner around $10 million in signing bonus, which is more than Earl Thomas received last year.

This has nothing to do with cap space (the $4.67 million that goes to Williams this year is not a piddling amount, but it is also not significant), except to the extent that the outer boundary of what Russell could be demanding is in the neighborhood of $27+ million per year in new money or 125% more than is made by the current highest paid player in the league.

Arguably, we are in better position to absorb Russell's demands than any other team because of the quality of the surrounding talent and the coaching they receive. He just needs to come back down to earth first.

Hasselbeck · Jun 26, 2015

kthebestwayw":23cxifdq said:
Yeah but if we had a bigger pot to pull from wouldn't we be able to give RW what he wants?

You're not very adapt at how negotiations go are you?

Seahawker86 · Jun 26, 2015

If you guys know how to read and UNDERSTAND the English language you'll see I put question marks which is stating a QUESTION.

Just seeing what everyone's thoughts were to spark some discussion.

No where did I start "This is why we can't sign RW"

Thank you hawksnation2015 for understanding the post.

Loved the insight

kidhawk · Jun 26, 2015

kthebestwayw":2pl70uew said:
If you guys know how to read and UNDERSTAND the English language you'll see I put question marks which is stating a QUESTION.

Just seeing what everyone's thoughts were to spark some discussion.

No where did I start "This is why we can't sign RW"

Thank you hawksnation2015 for understanding the post.

Loved the insight

I'm pretty sure I answered questions you asked in both of my posts. Calling out someone's understanding of the english language because they disagree with your premise isn't going to help further the discussion

AgentDib · Jun 26, 2015

To look at it another way, the price tag for RW is supposed to make you scratch your head and wonder if it is worth it. The only universe(s) in which it is an easy decision are the ones in which his agent is incompetent.

Of course, as fans we would like to see this be an easy process where we throw money at him and in return he talks about how much he loves playing here and would never consider leaving. That just isn't how negotiations work and it isn't because of our existing cap space. Rather, our future team depends on getting the best value we can out of all of our contracts and sometimes that involves long negotiations. The good news is that the passage of time will provide an external motivating factor for a deal to get done on both sides.

seedhawk · Jun 26, 2015

Hasselbeck":1fbk1wc3 said:
kthebestwayw":1fbk1wc3 said:

Yeah but if we had a bigger pot to pull from wouldn't we be able to give RW what he wants?

Click to expand...

You're not very adapt at how negotiations go are you?

To reference the next post, could it be the word you were looking for is "adept"?

scutterhawk · Jun 27, 2015

hawknation2015":1zotztx8 said:
We have enough cap space this season to give Russell the largest signing bonus in NFL history ($37 million), as well as to give Wagner around $10 million in signing bonus, which is more than Earl Thomas received last year.

This has nothing to do with cap space (the $4.67 million that goes to Williams this year is not a piddling amount, but it is also not significant), except to the extent that the outer boundary of what Russell could be demanding is in the neighborhood of $27+ million per year in new money or 125% more than is made by the current highest paid player in the league.

Arguably, we are in better position to absorb Russell's demands than any other team because of the quality of the surrounding talent and the coaching they receive. He just needs to come back down to earth first.

You've pretty well thought this out, and gave a damned good summation, without really insulting RW or anyone else involved in the negotiations.
Wilson seems to be pushing for an unrealistic contract, but it's not like he's completely without the skillset, and mental capacity to bolster his argument.
I do agree however, that he is kind of stretching it a bit with his negotiating tactics...."back down to Earth"...yep.

keatonisballin · Jun 27, 2015

The other options were to try to match Maxwells offer from Philly which would have been way more expensive. Or depend on Simon. Which are both terrible ideas.

crosfam · Jun 27, 2015

I think Williams earns his starting CB salary, or he is cut a year or maybe two so we can spend it elsewhere (to re-sign defense or OL, etc.). One or more of the young CBs may eclipse him as early as this season if he does not bring it. I hope he does. The other teams will throw at him so he will have the chance to prove himself.

The tension between the office and RW camp is less than you normally see in these situations. RW saying he would move if necessary seemed fake. I remember thinking somebody was going to sign Flacco away from Baltimore a few years ago after they won the SB. It did not happen, and he got (over) paid. I just wish RW would entertain a lower number for a better guarantee, like what was discussed a few months ago.

olyfan63 · Jun 30, 2015

That seems like a good parallel, Baltimore paying Flacco a big contract and the effect it has on their ability to have team depth. Hitting that big throw in the playoff game vs. Denver, AT Denver, now that was clutch, never mind Denver D's brain seizure, QB still has to see and make the throw.

Basis4day · Jun 30, 2015

kthebestwayw":35p3k9w8 said:
Didn't he just sign a 3 year 18 million contract? So that's 6 million a year. Wouldn't that be more than enough to pay both Wagner and Wilson? It might have cost of if anything Bruce Irvin next year.

Maybe the PC/JS are confident with Simon taking over the starting DB roll.

I like him as a player and I think he IS a perfect fit for our team and scheme. Just not sure if I want to have to pick between Wagner and Wilson

Thoughts?

That assumes he is on the team for the full length of his contract. Only 7 million of it is guaranteed and around 4.6 of that will be accounted for under the cap this year. Less than 3 million dollars of guarantees isn't going to come between signing Wagner/Wilson and not.

sc85sis · Jul 1, 2015

I'm pretty sure fans and the media are the cause of the drama.

Popeyejones · Jul 1, 2015

I've been very critical of the WIlliams signing (he'll play well IMO, but i think there were MUCH cheaper options that would have been just as effective), but blaming him for Wilson/Wagner? LOL, nah.

hawknation2015 · Jul 1, 2015

Popeyejones":fqzzasbh said:
I've been very critical of the WIlliams signing (he'll play well IMO, but i think there were MUCH cheaper options that would have been just as effective), but blaming him for Wilson/Wagner? LOL, nah.

Sorry, Popeye. Carroll has simply been too successful at finding stellar DBs to question him on this particular signing. Williams has played more snaps than any other corner over the last two seasons, meaning there was tons of tape on him. Finding a guy with that combination of experience, length, and athleticism is rare. Now, he is getting the best coaching any DB can receive. I expect we will see a much more finished product from Williams this season.

Popeyejones · Jul 1, 2015

hawknation2015":108dbt6o said:
Popeyejones":108dbt6o said:

I've been very critical of the WIlliams signing (he'll play well IMO, but i think there were MUCH cheaper options that would have been just as effective), but blaming him for Wilson/Wagner? LOL, nah.

Click to expand...

Sorry, Popeye. Carroll has simply been too successful at finding stellar DBs to question him on this particular signing. Williams has played more snaps than any other corner over the last two seasons, meaning there was tons of tape on him. Finding a guy with that combination of experience, length, and athleticism is rare. Now, he is getting the best coaching any DB can receive. I expect we will see a much more finished product from Williams this season.

Don't want to drag off topic, but agree to disagree (I think scheme and surrounding talent makes some of that "talent" seem a lot better than it is; as we've seen with the CBs who try to keep up their level of play after leaving Seattle, and will most likely see again with Maxwell). Agreed though that Williams will look better for the Hawks than he has for the Eagles.

So, yeah, I'm including my thoughts on it after I said I wouldn't, but agree to disagree.

Is C. Williams the cause of all this RW drama?

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