The fishy thing I don't get about "The Play"

In a desperation, goal-line pass play, the defenders have to sell out against the quick routes. If the guy you are covering runs an out, you jump it. If the guy you are covering sits down across the goal line, you jump it. There is no time to wait, you just go. If the guy you are covering runs a slant, you have to jump it. This is what I thought Butler's thought process was when he made the play. I thought he saw something quick coming, thought "Oh, burrito!", and jumped it out of desperation and made the pay of a lifetime.

Then it comes out shortly that the Patriots had been prepared for this play. Belichick knew and prepared his team for it. They had seen the formation before and it triggered their diagnosis of the play.

That's what I don't get. We seemingly run pick plays less often than anyone. Furthermore, I don't remember any examples of us running them at the goal line. So how did they know it was coming? Everybody in the world thought it was going to be a run, yet they're claiming they were anticipating the pick play.

The day before a game, teams do a walk through without pads. They always cover situational football, like 2-minute, 3rd down packages, and goal line. I'm certain that we had practiced and prepared to run this play in a crucial situation. We probably practiced it several times to make sure we ran it well. Did we possibly install this play in our goal line package in the two weeks leading up to this game? From this formation? And the Pats have been caught spying on walk-throughs before. And, oh yeah, it was during Super Bowl week.

We almost never run pick routes. (Am I wrong about this? Does anyone know?)

How did they know it was coming?

I'm sorry to bring this up now, it's just been eating away at me for months. How did they know it was coming?

The Patriots themselves said that they've seen it on the Hawks tape. We run that play from the goalline all the time, a problem perfectly consistent with most people's gripes about Bevell.

They probably just saw it on film but wouldnt be surprised if some cheating ass sh@$# happened. Patriots are known cheaters

MontanaHawk05":12bil7o4 said:

The Patriots themselves said that they've seen it on the Hawks tape. We run that play from the goalline all the time, a problem perfectly consistent with most people's gripes about Bevell.

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Without turning this into another bashing the OC thread, I Think the key player in the play was former Hawk Brandon Brower. He saw the formation knew the play and positioned the cornerback that made the play to be in the exact spot. If Brower isn't a patriot on that day, it's probably an incomplete pass at worst.

I've often wondered if Brandon Browner saw something and said something to Butler. It seems pretty weird that a rookie with 187 snaps in 7 games during the regular season, would have the wherewithal to read that play, and then to know EXACTLY where the pass was going and be there in time to make the kind of play he made. My hunch is that the Pats have been the best cheaters in the NFL for at least the last 10 years. Something definitely wasn't right.

Butler had said when they practice it, he had failed every single time, because it was a undefendable play, not my words but the words they used. Even Ricardo Lockette had stated that they ran it alot and that they were successful with it.

I had stated that it was because of Browner's hold (should of been flagged) that was able to get Kearse off course just enough for Malcom to go through.

Willyeye":27qlx0r5 said:

I've often wondered if Brandon Browner saw something and said something to Butler. It seems pretty weird that a rookie with 187 snaps in 7 games during the regular season, would have the wherewithal to read that play, and then to know EXACTLY where the pass was going and be there in time to make the kind of play he made. My hunch is that the Pats have been the best cheaters in the NFL for at least the last 10 years. Something definitely wasn't right.

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Either this ^ or malcolm butler is really underrated. idk if you saw him play against green bay but he shut down randall cobb.

We did try a quick slant on the goal line at least once before. I remember a goal line pick versus Carolina off Lynch's hands.

Lockettes half ass try with his alligator arms, got crushed by the butler.

2Cool4School":35lmvrua said:

Willyeye":35lmvrua said:

I've often wondered if Brandon Browner saw something and said something to Butler. It seems pretty weird that a rookie with 187 snaps in 7 games during the regular season, would have the wherewithal to read that play, and then to know EXACTLY where the pass was going and be there in time to make the kind of play he made. My hunch is that the Pats have been the best cheaters in the NFL for at least the last 10 years. Something definitely wasn't right.

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Either this ^ or malcolm butler is really underrated. idk if you saw him play against green bay but he shut down randall cobb.

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He looks pretty good, and wish we had him.

We've run it a few times the last couple years at or near goaline and have scored every time. To Golden Tate vs the Rams in 2013, to Zach Miller against the Saints later that year, and to Marshawn against the Broncos in 2014. The Carolina pass wasn't a true pick play.

To say we "run it all the time" as bash against Bevell is a bit disingenuous. We ran it once for a TD all year leading up to the SB, and that play started over five yards out. To see it run closer, you have to go to the 2013 tape. The fact that Belichick spent any significant time on that play is a credit to him and his reputation for over-preparation and detail. The fact that Butler pulled it off is still something I can't fathom.

We didn't score any touchdowns last year to any wide receiver that was less than 5 yards. Not once. We did not run that play in the goal line situation and complete it one time. I call absolute BS that they had seen this on tape. We may have run it once or twice throughout the season close to the goal line, but it wouldn't have been anything they ever would have prepared for, especially since it hadn't worked previously. Balogna Snot!

DavidSeven":3oay9tjc said:

We've run it a few times the last couple years at or near goaline and have scored every time. To Golden Tate vs the Rams in 2013, to Zach Miller against the Saints later that year, and to Marshawn against the Broncos in 2014. The Carolina pass wasn't a true pick play.

To say we "run it all the time" as bash against Bevell is a bit disingenuous. We ran it once for a TD all year leading up to the SB, and that play started over five yards out. To see it run closer, you have to go to the 2013 tape. The fact that Belichick spent any significant time on that play is a credit to him and his reputation for over-preparation and detail. The fact that Butler pulled it off is still something I can't fathom.

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Thanks for the research. A little quicker than I am. Are these just the plays that we scored on using pick plays, or plays where we scored using this formation?

You gotta go back to 2013 to see an apples-to-apples version of the play:

Tate 2-yard TD @ St. Louis

Miller 2-yard TD vs. New Orleans

But yeah, pretty unstoppable if the pick receiver gets off the line and the ball is placed right.

even if the pats did watch Seahawks practices, that play should have never been called in the first place

Tical21":2h7v76l4 said:

Thanks for the research. A little quicker than I am. Are these just the plays that we scored on using pick plays, or plays where we scored using this formation?

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Just pick plays. The formations/personnel are a little different, so yeah, I can see your point about New England not being able to read the play from the formation alone. I mean, there's a lot of things Seattle could have ran out of that look. Maybe there is some other "tell" that Browner is privy to.

DavidSeven":1zo02yz2 said:

You gotta go back to 2013 to see an apples-to-apples version of the play:

Tate 2-yard TD @ St. Louis

Miller 2-yard TD vs. New Orleans

But yeah, pretty unstoppable if the pick receiver gets off the line and the ball is placed right.

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Man, even when it's successful something about that play makes my skin crawl. I just don't think it's a smart play at the goalline where everyone is so tight together. It can so easily be intercepted or have it tipped in the air. You're also possibly setting up a hard hit on the receiver after he catches it. Someone could get rocked hard right after catching it. There's just point on passing it so short hovering around the goal line. Why not just run or do a quick outlet pass to a receiver. Why step back and throw a ball that barely travels? I don't get it. Hawks probably should have ran it, but if they were to pass than it should have been something near the pylon or fade route. Also lockette is not golden Tate.

DavidSeven":1blm31cf said:

Tical21":1blm31cf said:

Thanks for the research. A little quicker than I am. Are these just the plays that we scored on using pick plays, or plays where we scored using this formation?

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Just pick plays. The formations/personnel are a little different, so yeah, I can see your point about New England not being able to read the play from just the info on the field. I mean, there's a lot of things Seattle could have ran out of that look. Maybe there is some other "tell" that Browner is privy to.

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Yeah, I guess it's the same concept, even with the different formation. Maybe Belichick did go that deep. I'm more inclined to think that Butler just told himself he was going to jump any short route. I just can't see them taking the time to prepare for a play that we almost never run and hadn't scored with the entire season. Maybe though. They did have two weeks to prepare.

DavidSeven":u2ofs016 said:

You gotta go back to 2013 to see an apples-to-apples version of the play:

Tate 2-yard TD @ St. Louis

Miller 2-yard TD vs. New Orleans

But yeah, pretty unstoppable if the pick receiver gets off the line and the ball is placed right.

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If you look at both of those plays, you'll see the ball thrown into the receiver's body; not out front of the receiver.

On 'The Play' the throw was in front of the receiver not into his body where it was fairly safe from an interception; either Lockette wasn't aggressive enough to the spot, or RW was off target. Either way, the fault is in the execution of he play...which is what I've been saying for 6 months! LOL!

IIRC: Britt said we used that play against AZ and it was successful.

We lost and it's a new season so lets get on with it.