Pressure is on Russell Wilson

seahawk12thman · Sep 1, 2015

After reading about the Hawaii trip and looking at his body of work for the last five games (NFC Championship and Super Bowl included), It is of my opinion he is going to be tested like he never has before. The book is out on him. Teams are going to put a spy at the Linebacker position and maintain gap integrity with him. It is obvious that Wilson can complete the bomb from the pocket and is deadly when you give him space outside the pocket but, imho, he has yet to prove he can be a reliable pocket passer.

Let me put this disclaimer that I am a Wilson fan. I admire what he does off and on the field. I respect what a man does, not what he says. He words can ring hollow but if he is a man of substance, that has value in my world. I hope he succeeds, but I think his height may come back to bite him. Watching the tape of the Super Bowl, there were intermediary routes that were open and Wilson didn't pull the trigger or couldn't find them (Your guess is as good as mine). He seems almost nonchalant about his struggles ("We will be just fine") in the preseason but there is a pattern going on here. There hasn't been room to run and he isn't accurate in the 10-20 yard range. Quick sideline outs he has had success but over the middle he has failed miserably.

Reading in between the lines the Hawaii trip was a outlet for the defense to vent. When the Hawks went up 24-14 and forced New England to two drive stalling punts, they expected the offense to step on their throats and put the game away.. The more I have watched the tape this preseason, two things have stood out to me.

The abysmal blocking of Jimmy Graham

and

The horrible accuracy of Russell Wilson....

This has been the biggest drive killing stalwarts.

I hope I am wrong but I must say I am a little nervous.

AROS · Sep 1, 2015

In the 40+ years I've been a fan of the Seahawks, one thing never changes:

You can't put stock into what the team does - or does not do - in the preseason. I have yet to see the preseason be a true accurate gauge of what a team ends up doing in the regular season for 16 games.

I admit I can get worked up as much as anybody even in the preseason when aspects of the Seahawks look like garbage but I have to sit back and look at the bigger picture which again, preseason rarely ever translates to the regular season except for the bottom feeder teams in the league.

Base, vanilla schemes, teams trying not to show their hand while evaluating their young players. Yeah I admit you would prefer to see the offense have a nice authoritative 80+ yard TD drive just once in the preseason but I'll reserve getting too worked up about it unless it's halfway through the season and the offense ranks at the bottom in the league.

I just don't see that happening.

seahawk12thman · Sep 1, 2015

This isn't just preseason; this extends back to Green Bay, New England and Dallas. Those teams were able to shut us down. Give me a game where Wilson has shredded a team primarily from the pocket?

NewJerseyHawk · Sep 1, 2015

Still comes down to whether Eli Manning, Matt Ryan and others have more weapons than Wilson.....the answer is Manning needs both a running game and at least 2 elite to very good WR's to succeed, otherwise he throws 20+ picks a year.

Ryan has spent every year of his career throwing to any combo of the following....Roddy White, Julio Jones and Tony Gonzalez.

I think both programs are considered your prototype QB....I can add Rothlesberger with players like Hines Ward, Antonio Brown, Mike Wallace, Heath Miller.

We need to be fair to Wilson and understand that his touch on the deep ball is as good as anyone in the league and I'm excited for him having Matthews and now Graham as pieces of the offense. We are still forgetting that Matthews didn't play any snaps in any of the games prior to the Super Bowl in a meaningful fashion.....instead we were arguing last year about the merits of Phil Bates vs Ricardo Lockette.

The addition of Fred Jackson after week 2, along with Samson Satele, mixed with Graham, Tyler Lockette and Matthews, give us a real threat of playmaking. We miss Sidney Rice and his presence in helping Wilson develop as a rookie, along with some actual plays being made by Zach Miller and Anthony McCoy at TE.

The gaps in our offense are alarming if we are looking back at last year. This year is a new year and teams have to respect Graham and Jackson as safer throws that will move the chains. The 3 and outs had to be a point of contention in the Super Bowl, we got outplayed and survived on 2 big plays to Matthews.

The defense and article in Sports Illustrated was excellent in that Wilson knows he has to deliver, but his work ethic is 2nd to none. Do I think he's not looking to throw picks?? Absolutely...he missed Turbin on a pass inside that he scrambled out of trouble and tried a floater to Kearse in the endzone.

To recap, when players like Anthony McCoy, who when healthy is as athletic as Jimmy Graham, are missed on crossing routes, we down play it because it's McCoy.....when he misses Graham on a shallow cross, it will get magnified.

I honestly am more terrified about Tharold Simon and Cary Williams playing significant minutes at CB, more than anything associated with Russell Wilson. I am hoping Jeremy Lane gets back by November and that Tye Smith develops. I'd rather see Smith and Simon develop more than whatever jump in talent Wilson presents this year.

The Super Bowl is past us. The legend of Seattle looking or feeling like New England is established over a 7 to 8 years period not over a 2 or 3 year stretch. People pencil in the Packers for the playoffs and winning the North. Seattle is now at that level where we are going to make the playoffs every year for the near and distant future. We are not going to win the Super Bowl every single year, but will be in the conversation. That's all you can ask for, there is not a window closing on things here, the future for the next 5 to 7 years is very bright. Enjoy this timeframe folks, it is really a fun time, with some stress mixed in....beats finishing 8-8 every year.

Tical21 · Sep 1, 2015

I'll just say that many teams have tried this same approach and have coached their teams not to allow Wilson to beat them with their legs, and at the end of the day, most just simply don't have the athletes to accomplish it. Teams have had success keeping outside leverage on him, as he tends to almost always spin backwards. However, he's a bright dude, I think if teams start playing him different, he'll adjust. It is possible that he may never become a great decision maker in the pocket, and it is also possible that it may never really hurt him.

HawkFan72 · Sep 1, 2015

Aros":2o7yl1ln said:
In the 40+ years I've been a fan of the Seahawks, one thing never changes:

You can't put stock into what the team does - or does not do - in the preseason. I have yet to see the preseason be a true accurate gauge of what a team ends up doing in the regular season for 16 games.

I admit I can get worked up as much as anybody even in the preseason when aspects of the Seahawks look like garbage but I have to sit back and look at the bigger picture which again, preseason rarely ever translates to the regular season except for the bottom feeder teams in the league.

Base, vanilla schemes, teams trying not to show their hand while evaluating their young players. Yeah I admit you would prefer to see the offense have a nice authoritative 80+ yard TD drive just once in the preseason but I'll reserve getting too worked up about it unless it's halfway through the season and the offense ranks at the bottom in the league.

I just don't see that happening.

Seahawks also have started out really slow in September and October during the Pete Carroll Era. The Offense usually doesn't start really picking up until the 2nd half of the season.

We are going to see a lot of panic on these boards when the Seahawks Offense looks flat on the road during the first two weeks of the season. But if you look at the last few years, that will be normal for the Seahawks. We should expect it now.

Alexander · Sep 1, 2015

seahawk12thman":1gf53p3a said:
Give me a game where Wilson has shredded a team primarily from the pocket?

Well, since you mentioned the last 5 games including playoffs, how about the playoff game against Carolina? He was superb.

Spin Doctor · Sep 1, 2015

Tical21":c303xvyi said:
I'll just say that many teams have tried this same approach and have coached their teams not to allow Wilson to beat them with their legs, and at the end of the day, most just simply don't have the athletes to accomplish it. Teams have had success keeping outside leverage on him, as he tends to almost always spin backwards. However, he's a bright dude, I think if teams start playing him different, he'll adjust. It is possible that he may never become a great decision maker in the pocket, and it is also possible that it may never really hurt him.

My problem with Wilson's approach to playing QB is that it makes him a boom or bust passer. There is no consistency to his game. This doesn't make him a bad passer, it just makes him frustrating to watch sometimes. If he had to march down the field on a consistent basis I don't know if I would trust him. I feel like his scrambling routine also throws off his accuracy if it becomes prolonged. I feel like in order to take his game to the next level, he needs to learn how to be be more effective from the pocket.

RussB · Sep 1, 2015

Lets just hope he doesnt try to overdo passing from the pocket and not use his legs when he can , thats what it seems like hes doing in the preseason

kearly · Sep 1, 2015

I don't care about preseason wins or losses. But generally speaking, Seattle was the NFL's best preseason team the last few years in terms of individual performances, and that HAS translated into regular season success.

The offense has struggled, and that is something to be concerned about. Thing is though, you have basically 3/5 of the OL either being brand new or playing a new position. Wilson is learning to trust that line, and also still figuring out chemistry with several new pass catchers. Our running backs are still learning how to run behind this new line. Bevell is still trying to figure out why calling an outside sweep on first and goal from the 2 isn't outsmarting anyone.

Other than Bevell being Bevell, I'm pretty confident that this stuff will sort itself out over the next month or so. And Seattle's Defense and Special teams are so amazing that they'll give Seattle a great chance to win even if the offense struggles.

Seahwkgal · Sep 1, 2015

NewJerseyHawk":3ukjxjud said:
Still comes down to whether Eli Manning, Matt Ryan and others have more weapons than Wilson.....the answer is Manning needs both a running game and at least 2 elite to very good WR's to succeed, otherwise he throws 20+ picks a year.

Ryan has spent every year of his career throwing to any combo of the following....Roddy White, Julio Jones and Tony Gonzalez.

I think both programs are considered your prototype QB....I can add Rothlesberger with players like Hines Ward, Antonio Brown, Mike Wallace, Heath Miller.

We need to be fair to Wilson and understand that his touch on the deep ball is as good as anyone in the league and I'm excited for him having Matthews and now Graham as pieces of the offense. We are still forgetting that Matthews didn't play any snaps in any of the games prior to the Super Bowl in a meaningful fashion.....instead we were arguing last year about the merits of Phil Bates vs Ricardo Lockette.

The addition of Fred Jackson after week 2, along with Samson Satele, mixed with Graham, Tyler Lockette and Matthews, give us a real threat of playmaking. We miss Sidney Rice and his presence in helping Wilson develop as a rookie, along with some actual plays being made by Zach Miller and Anthony McCoy at TE.

The gaps in our offense are alarming if we are looking back at last year. This year is a new year and teams have to respect Graham and Jackson as safer throws that will move the chains. The 3 and outs had to be a point of contention in the Super Bowl, we got outplayed and survived on 2 big plays to Matthews.

The defense and article in Sports Illustrated was excellent in that Wilson knows he has to deliver, but his work ethic is 2nd to none. Do I think he's not looking to throw picks?? Absolutely...he missed Turbin on a pass inside that he scrambled out of trouble and tried a floater to Kearse in the endzone.

To recap, when players like Anthony McCoy, who when healthy is as athletic as Jimmy Graham, are missed on crossing routes, we down play it because it's McCoy.....when he misses Graham on a shallow cross, it will get magnified.

I honestly am more terrified about Tharold Simon and Cary Williams playing significant minutes at CB, more than anything associated with Russell Wilson. I am hoping Jeremy Lane gets back by November and that Tye Smith develops. I'd rather see Smith and Simon develop more than whatever jump in talent Wilson presents this year.

The Super Bowl is past us. The legend of Seattle looking or feeling like New England is established over a 7 to 8 years period not over a 2 or 3 year stretch. People pencil in the Packers for the playoffs and winning the North. Seattle is now at that level where we are going to make the playoffs every year for the near and distant future. We are not going to win the Super Bowl every single year, but will be in the conversation. That's all you can ask for, there is not a window closing on things here, the future for the next 5 to 7 years is very bright. Enjoy this timeframe folks, it is really a fun time, with some stress mixed in....beats finishing 8-8 every year.

Satele signed? I haven't read any such news. Nor a signing of Jackson, just a visit.

TwistedHusky · Sep 1, 2015

I don't know if that is fair to Wilson.

You cannot expect a QB to perform well without adequate protection.

In fact, you can pretty much expect a QB to pick up some really bad habits without adequate protection.

Giving the guy a stellar TE does not really help if he is not upright.

Right now, Wilson does not have to carry the team, just keep the sticks moving when Lynch gets piled on too much. But if this line does not pan out, and Lynch cannot produce the #s we need - then yeah, we have to hope Wilson can work some miracles.

Is it fair to blame him if he cannot though?

My worry is that the losing team in the SB is, by the data, usually ripe to not even make the playoffs the next year. They often fall off the tracks because they feel they have to make additional moves to get that next level - and they end up gutting some of their own strength instead.

I am very worried that throwing a bunch of 0 star offensive linemen, many of which have never worked together as a unit, is going to end up being a huge achilles heel for us.

I think Russ is clearly nowhere near the quality of the Russel we are used to seeing. The reason for that is not clear yet, but since the line is a giant weakness, at least some of the distraction could be that change. We will see.

erik2690 · Sep 1, 2015

By 5 games you mean 2 games in playoffs (SB QB rating of 110, AY/A of 11.5) and then 5 Q's of preseason football in 2 separate games, right? The SB wasn't outstanding or anything, but I think acting like it was a very bad performance seems a bit much. I'm fine with peoples concern, but let's just be clear about what you mean.

VivaEfrenHerrera · Sep 1, 2015

Spin Doctor":2ews8o94 said:
...I feel like in order to take his game to the next level, he needs to learn how to be be more effective from the pocket.

Hmmm. To do this, he's gonna need a consistent pocket to step up into, no? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we've seen overly much of that in his three years under center.

seedhawk · Sep 1, 2015

It is one thing to play like a highly paid QB when you are making peanuts. It is an entirely different animal when you have recently signed a very large contract. To be successful, RW just has to play like RW. He is gonna frustrate the hell out of many of us many times, but at the end of the year, it's all about the W's.

Spin Doctor · Sep 1, 2015

VivaEfrenHerrera":3cm9p98g said:
Spin Doctor":3cm9p98g said:

...I feel like in order to take his game to the next level, he needs to learn how to be be more effective from the pocket.

Click to expand...

Hmmm. To do this, he's gonna need a consistent pocket to step up into, no? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we've seen overly much of that in his three years under center.

The O-Line has been better than Hawk fans credit it for being over these last few years. Something to take into consideration is that Wilson holds the ball longer than any QB in the NFL by a significant margin. Just look at Phillip Rivers the last two times we played him. He has an extremely quick release, and there is no hesitation with where he wants to go. Our pass rushers had maybe two seconds to get to him. This is something that Wilson really needs to work on.

Rivers is able to extend plays as well despite being one of the more immobile QB's. He knows how to set up blockers, and step up in the pocket. Wilson by comparison will camp his left tackle. That makes the lines job much harder, when he senses pressure his natural instinct is to either back pedal, or bail out, even when he has nothing but space in front of him. It's the same deal with Peyton Manning, the guy never gets sacked, even when major components of the line are out. He just knows how to manipulate the pocket, and he's decisive.

Now I'm not saying Wilson needs to become Manning, or Rivers. He just needs to add that extra wrinkle to his game in order to become more consistent. He doesn't need to be the best pocket passer due to his other skills, and improv ability, but he does need to improve here.

I see Wilson understands that he needs to improve here as well.. This preseason he's been working on staying in the pocket, even when he has the opportunity to bail, though as we can see he still needs some work here. Another thing he needs to work on is being more decisive with where he wants to go. I'm seeing a lot of double clutching, and second guessing. It's leading to missed opportunities. I feel like he has regressed in this area from his rookie season.

erik2690 · Sep 1, 2015

Spin Doctor":2y4upijh said:
The O-Line has been better than Hawk fans credit it for being over these last few years. Something to take into consideration is that Wilson holds the ball longer than any QB in the NFL by a significant margin.

But that stat does not prove much. I mean it does give context, but look at this scenario. RW drops back, pocket breaks quickly he scrambles makes a pass for 10+ yards but holds it for 4+ sec. in the process. That seem like an odd RW scenario? That would add to his 'holding longer' and yet wouldn't be indicative of fault. He does hold too long at times, but that stat has it's faults. It doesn't really adjust well for QB's who can hold the ball to make a good thing happen. He also, was among the top in QB pressure under 2 seconds if I remember correctly. It's a combination of things certainly, but don't place too much weight on average time to pass here as a mechanism for showing the o-line is actually good at pass pro. I agree in general terms that is an area to improve I just don't love that stat as a way to prove much, it's helpful but needs other context.

BadgerVid · Sep 1, 2015

HawkFan72":3ggcuyev said:
Seahawks also have started out really slow in September and October during the Pete Carroll Era. The Offense usually doesn't start really picking up until the 2nd half of the season.

We are going to see a lot of panic on these boards when the Seahawks Offense looks flat on the road during the first two weeks of the season. But if you look at the last few years, that will be normal for the Seahawks. We should expect it now.

I get a lot of strange looks when I say I wouldn't be very surprised to see the 'Hawks go 0-2 out the gate and finish at 13-3...it's sort of how they roll.

BadgerVid · Sep 1, 2015

peachesenregalia":362qsm97 said:
I think we would all do well to pump the breaks a little on this and wait for Anthony! to tell us all how to feel about Russell Wilson.

Do you have this set up on a macro or something?

Anthony! · Sep 1, 2015

seahawk12thman":31ivf9i5 said:
After reading about the Hawaii trip and looking at his body of work for the last five games (NFC Championship and Super Bowl included), It is of my opinion he is going to be tested like he never has before. The book is out on him. Teams are going to put a spy at the Linebacker position and maintain gap integrity with him. It is obvious that Wilson can complete the bomb from the pocket and is deadly when you give him space outside the pocket but, imho, he has yet to prove he can be a reliable pocket passer.

Let me put this disclaimer that I am a Wilson fan. I admire what he does off and on the field. I respect what a man does, not what he says. He words can ring hollow but if he is a man of substance, that has value in my world. I hope he succeeds, but I think his height may come back to bite him. Watching the tape of the Super Bowl, there were intermediary routes that were open and Wilson didn't pull the trigger or couldn't find them (Your guess is as good as mine). He seems almost nonchalant about his struggles ("We will be just fine") in the preseason but there is a pattern going on here. There hasn't been room to run and he isn't accurate in the 10-20 yard range. Quick sideline outs he has had success but over the middle he has failed miserably.

Reading in between the lines the Hawaii trip was a outlet for the defense to vent. When the Hawks went up 24-14 and forced New England to two drive stalling punts, they expected the offense to step on their throats and put the game away.. The more I have watched the tape this preseason, two things have stood out to me.

The abysmal blocking of Jimmy Graham

and

The horrible accuracy of Russell Wilson....

This has been the biggest drive killing stalwarts.

I hope I am wrong but I must say I am a little nervous.

Okay so his last few games well in the last 10 games that matter he has had a QB rating under 90- only 3 times. As to the Hawaii trip if you want to make up that the defense vented fine then I can make up the offense vented since it gave the defense a 10 point lead with 9 minutes to go. As to the rest again preseason were they work on things, since you have no clue what he is working on you have no clue what is what. AS to the supposed routes that were open, yeah ahh no, one more time, it does not matter if they are open right away of they are #3 in his progression, and are covered when he gets to them, it also doe snot matter if they are open after their place in his progressions, and of course it really does not matter if they are open on 3rd and 10 for 2 yards when we need 10. None of these things can be told form watching video. So once again lots of conjecture here, nothing to worry about...yet

Pressure is on Russell Wilson

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