Play not called dead?

pmedic920 · Sep 22, 2015

I mentioned this in the GameDay forum by never got a clear answer.
I'm still really curious on this.
When we went to the break at half time, Tony Dungy said that that play where Sherm got called for PI, should have been called dead.

Rodgers killed us on the "free plays" following a penalty and this one was a big one.

Can any body explain why that play should have been blown dead?
Or if in fact it should have been?

Hawkfan77 · Sep 22, 2015

It's my understanding that the play should have been dead, Bennett was offsides and the OL reacted, once that happens its 5 yards and no free play. Refs missed it twice

XxXdragonXxX · Sep 22, 2015

Yep. #70 on the offensive line jumps in reaction to Bennett going into the neutral zone. This is a neutral zone infraction which is a dead ball foul just like a false start. I believe that Sherman stopped on the play because he thought it was blown dead, and then had to interfere trying to catch back up.

Anonymous · Sep 22, 2015

Hawkfan77":akv5t7rd said:
It's my understanding that the play should have been dead, Bennett was offsides and the OL reacted, once that happens its 5 yards and no free play. Refs missed it twice

Correct.

In a defense-jumping-off-side scenario, in order for it to be a "free play", the offensive must not move until the snap of the ball. Once the snap occurs the defensive player is caught inside the neutral zone and the play is allowed to continue. This is very much like ice hockey, wherein the ref holds his arm straight up after a penalty until such time as the puck is touched by the offending team and the play is then blown dead. The key is that the offense must remain legal throughout the course of the play.

In the case of the play in question, the offensive lineman was drawn into movement prior to the snap, thus a false start penalty. The offsetting penalties would have then reset the down and original line of scrimmage.

Poor officiating that, IMO, led to them winning.

kidhawk · Sep 22, 2015

HoustonHawk82":359kgd2h said:
Hawkfan77":359kgd2h said:

It's my understanding that the play should have been dead, Bennett was offsides and the OL reacted, once that happens its 5 yards and no free play. Refs missed it twice

Click to expand...

Correct.

In a defense-jumping-off-side scenario, in order for it to be a "free play", the offensive must not move until the snap of the ball. Once the snap occurs the defensive player is caught inside the neutral zone and the play is allowed to continue. This is very much like ice hockey, wherein the ref holds his arm straight up after a penalty until such time as the puck is touched by the offending team and the play is then blown dead. The key is that the offense must remain legal throughout the course of the play.

In the case of the play in question, the offensive lineman was drawn into movement prior to the snap, thus a false start penalty. The offsetting penalties would have then reset the down and original line of scrimmage.

Poor officiating that, IMO, led to them winning.

I know what you mean with the Green highlighted part, but just to clarify for those who don't know, It's not actually a false start penalty and offsetting, The ref would announce that the defense drew the offense offsides and the offense would be advanced 5 yards and the down would stay the same (unless it became a first down which isn't the case on this particular play).

Hasselbeck · Sep 22, 2015

HoustonHawk82":24pl2eqf said:
Hawkfan77":24pl2eqf said:

It's my understanding that the play should have been dead, Bennett was offsides and the OL reacted, once that happens its 5 yards and no free play. Refs missed it twice

Click to expand...

Correct.

In a defense-jumping-off-side scenario, in order for it to be a "free play", the offensive must not move until the snap of the ball. Once the snap occurs the defensive player is caught inside the neutral zone and the play is allowed to continue. This is very much like ice hockey, wherein the ref holds his arm straight up after a penalty until such time as the puck is touched by the offending team and the play is then blown dead. The key is that the offense must remain legal throughout the course of the play.

In the case of the play in question, the offensive lineman was drawn into movement prior to the snap, thus a false start penalty. The offsetting penalties would have then reset the down and original line of scrimmage.

Poor officiating that, IMO, led to them winning.

Missed call sure. Does it excuse Sherman for just flat running over Ty Montgomery for a 50 yard PI call? No.

What led to the Packers winning was not having discipline to stop jumping offsides

kidhawk · Sep 22, 2015

Hasselbeck":14tj0m1a said:
HoustonHawk82":14tj0m1a said:

Hawkfan77":14tj0m1a said:

It's my understanding that the play should have been dead, Bennett was offsides and the OL reacted, once that happens its 5 yards and no free play. Refs missed it twice

Click to expand...

Correct.

In a defense-jumping-off-side scenario, in order for it to be a "free play", the offensive must not move until the snap of the ball. Once the snap occurs the defensive player is caught inside the neutral zone and the play is allowed to continue. This is very much like ice hockey, wherein the ref holds his arm straight up after a penalty until such time as the puck is touched by the offending team and the play is then blown dead. The key is that the offense must remain legal throughout the course of the play.

In the case of the play in question, the offensive lineman was drawn into movement prior to the snap, thus a false start penalty. The offsetting penalties would have then reset the down and original line of scrimmage.

Poor officiating that, IMO, led to them winning.

Click to expand...

Missed call sure. Does it excuse Sherman for just flat running over Ty Montgomery for a 50 yard PI call? No.

What led to the Packers winning was not having discipline to stop jumping offsides

Yes, our jumping (or I should say Bennett's jumping) was atrocious in the first half of the game, but I have to disagree strongly with your take that it doesn't excuse Sherman's pass interference call. The ref missed the call plain and simple. There should never have been a play ran there. Second, if Bennett didn't jump, Rodgers doesn't throw that way. He went to Sherman's side when he knew it was a free play. He did the same thing last year, only he got burned once, because a play he thought there was offsides, it wasn't called, and it led to a Sherman interception.

Rodgers is one of the best in the game, and he knows not to go after those big throws on Sherman unless he's in a no-lose scenario, which he got courtesy of Bennett too many times.

pmedic920 · Sep 22, 2015

^^^^^
I also think that Sherm knew it should be a dead play.
IMO that's why he was just jogging towards the middle of the field. Seems when he noticed that the play in fact was allowed to go on, he was way out of position and tried to make up space.

scutterhawk · Sep 22, 2015

Hawkfan77":369rf96f said:
It's my understanding that the play should have been dead, Bennett was offsides and the OL reacted, once that happens its 5 yards and no free play. Refs missed it twice

It's as if they (the Refs) missed it twice....ON PERPOSE.

Seahawks4life · Sep 22, 2015

[vine]ePDdhWb0Qan[/vine]

Greenhell · Sep 22, 2015

Well isn't that some serious BS. Maybe we'll get an apology from the refs?

LaSeeno · Sep 22, 2015

It happens. RW got away with an intentional grounding.

drrew · Sep 22, 2015

XxXdragonXxX":1wwnw3od said:
I believe that Sherman stopped on the play because he thought it was blown dead, and then had to interfere trying to catch back up.

Can anyone with All-22 access confirm whether or not Sherman was effected? I'm assuming he just lost his man in coverage, but would be interesting to see nonetheless.

Hasselbeck · Sep 22, 2015

kidhawk":2arb7jpj said:
Hasselbeck":2arb7jpj said:

HoustonHawk82":2arb7jpj said:

Hawkfan77":2arb7jpj said:

It's my understanding that the play should have been dead, Bennett was offsides and the OL reacted, once that happens its 5 yards and no free play. Refs missed it twice

Click to expand...

Correct.

In a defense-jumping-off-side scenario, in order for it to be a "free play", the offensive must not move until the snap of the ball. Once the snap occurs the defensive player is caught inside the neutral zone and the play is allowed to continue. This is very much like ice hockey, wherein the ref holds his arm straight up after a penalty until such time as the puck is touched by the offending team and the play is then blown dead. The key is that the offense must remain legal throughout the course of the play.

In the case of the play in question, the offensive lineman was drawn into movement prior to the snap, thus a false start penalty. The offsetting penalties would have then reset the down and original line of scrimmage.

Poor officiating that, IMO, led to them winning.

Click to expand...

Missed call sure. Does it excuse Sherman for just flat running over Ty Montgomery for a 50 yard PI call? No.

What led to the Packers winning was not having discipline to stop jumping offsides

Click to expand...

Yes, our jumping (or I should say Bennett's jumping) was atrocious in the first half of the game, but I have to disagree strongly with your take that it doesn't excuse Sherman's pass interference call. The ref missed the call plain and simple. There should never have been a play ran there. Second, if Bennett didn't jump, Rodgers doesn't throw that way. He went to Sherman's side when he knew it was a free play. He did the same thing last year, only he got burned once, because a play he thought there was offsides, it wasn't called, and it led to a Sherman interception.

Rodgers is one of the best in the game, and he knows not to go after those big throws on Sherman unless he's in a no-lose scenario, which he got courtesy of Bennett too many times.

But again.. don't jump offsides and none of the stuff that happens after happens.

BullHawk33 · Sep 22, 2015

Both Bennett and Sherman should have played through the whistle. There wasn't one, so they should have gone full tilt. This whole thing is on both of them quitting on a play.

seahawks187 · Sep 22, 2015

When Bennett jumps offsides he needs to just keep going instead of jumping back.. That way he still puts pressure (prob getting a hit on him) instead of no pass rush at all and Rodgers can just do whateve

Year of The Hawk · Sep 22, 2015

IMHO officiating was horrible for both sides. We got away with a PI early on. We also got burned on a few. That is NOT the reason we lost. They just plain flat out beat us. Take away a touchdown and they still beat us. Besides I would like anyone try to convince a Packers fan that they won because of officiating without getting punched in the mouth.

BTW - I feel the Hail Mary play in past against the Packers was ours and not bad officiating.

ivotuk · Sep 22, 2015

seahawks187":1kdm41ox said:
When Bennett jumps offsides he needs to just keep going instead of jumping back.. That way he still puts pressure (prob getting a hit on him) instead of no pass rush at all and Rodgers can just do whateve

If Bennett hits Rodgers when the play is dead, it's a 15 yard personal foul. So he has to be careful in that instance.

mikeak · Sep 22, 2015

ivotuk":mj2pwpx4 said:
seahawks187":mj2pwpx4 said:

When Bennett jumps offsides he needs to just keep going instead of jumping back.. That way he still puts pressure (prob getting a hit on him) instead of no pass rush at all and Rodgers can just do whateve

Click to expand...

If Bennett hits Rodgers when the play is dead, it's a 15 yard personal foul. So he has to be careful in that instance.

You are correct but the play wasn't dead. If Bennet keeps going from the offside, makes the offensive tackle engage then it surely will be blown dead. Point being - DON'T GIVE THEM THE FREE PLAY

If you jump offside and know you can't get back on time you are better off continuing. You won't get the 15 yard penalty unless you hit someone after the whistle so you force the 5 yard penalty which is better than the free play (which at a minimum gives the 5 yards)

morgulon1 · Sep 22, 2015

Hawkfan77":2fbp0rdu said:
It's my understanding that the play should have been dead, Bennett was offsides and the OL reacted, once that happens its 5 yards and no free play. Refs missed it twice

Yes and it accounted for 14 freaking points, the "cheap" way. Looking at that twinkle toed dorf #70 for GB stand up and point at Bennett and look for a flag. Cheap shit. They do that . A lot.

Play not called dead?

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