The O-Line

Bad, as in very bad,

Nice one Largent. I hope they find them soon.

Sad but true. :?

Yep, I'm over the whole "we can turn any SPARQy DL/TE/punter into a starting O lineman". Nowak and Gilliam will probably be solid in a year or two, but I'm tired of waiting. Brains and experience need to be emphasized when they bolster the line in the offseason. I mostly blame Cable for being overconfident in his ability to mold these misfits into a functional unit. How elusive was Russell last night? ANY other QB in the NFL (assuming they also hold it too long) takes 10 sacks. Hopefully we'll look back on an ugly win and an AZ loss as the turning point in the season....

Just saw quite a few plays and watched Sweezy and Britt whiffing on multiple blocks and throw Nowak in there as well. They all played terrible.

Cincy will kill us if they can't get it together in 3 days or less of practice and travel, and I have seen zero positive forward improvement from them.

Problem with the O-line emanates from lack of production at the wide receiver position. Because our receivers can be covered one on one, with the exception of Tyler Lockette at times, there isn't any deep threat that puts fear into the mind set of the defensive backs. As a result the opposing teams just man up, and either corner blitz or safety blitz all game, knowing that they aren't going to get beat over the top. This places enormous pressure on an ever evolving offensive line that just can't handle the constant blitz. Thus you see sack after sack. Teams have figured this out, and if you watch they all are starting to play with the same defensive package, regardless of personnel. We're stuck right now, and we better figure how to get open and create separation. Otherwise the future doesn't bode well for our team.

RW92":3cq85xgi said:

Problem with the O-line emanates from lack of production at the wide receiver position. Because our receivers can be covered one on one, with the exception of Tyler Lockette at times, there isn't any deep threat that puts fear into the mind set of the defensive backs. As a result the opposing teams just man up, and either corner blitz or safety blitz all game, knowing that they aren't going to get beat over the top. This places enormous pressure on an ever evolving offensive line that just can't handle the constant blitz. Thus you see sack after sack. Teams have figured this out, and if you watch they all are starting to play with the same defensive package, regardless of personal. We're stuck right now, and we better figure how to get open and create separation. Otherwise the future doesn't bode well for our team.

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How do you get production when it's one two three sack because we can't have a QB set and make reads and throw from a protected pocket.

chris98251":1mhhtehz said:

RW92":1mhhtehz said:

Problem with the O-line emanates from lack of production at the wide receiver position. Because our receivers can be covered one on one, with the exception of Tyler Lockette at times, there isn't any deep threat that puts fear into the mind set of the defensive backs. As a result the opposing teams just man up, and either corner blitz or safety blitz all game, knowing that they aren't going to get beat over the top. This places enormous pressure on an ever evolving offensive line that just can't handle the constant blitz. Thus you see sack after sack. Teams have figured this out, and if you watch they all are starting to play with the same defensive package, regardless of personal. We're stuck right now, and we better figure how to get open and create separation. Otherwise the future doesn't bode well for our team.

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How do you get production when it's one two three sack because we can't have a QB set and make reads and throw from a protected pocket.

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Let me tell ya, that is the question of the day. How do we get production? I look at the roster and ask myself is it the personnel, offensive coordinator, play calling, or all of the above. Bottom line is they can't go 12 more games like this. I just can't see it happening. They have to establish some type of deep threat or at least try and get Graham open in the middle seams. Rus is doing everything he can.

Skansi82":126kz34g said:

Yep, I'm over the whole "we can turn any SPARQy DL/TE/punter into a starting O lineman". Nowak and Gilliam will probably be solid in a year or two, but I'm tired of waiting. Brains and experience need to be emphasized when they bolster the line in the offseason. I mostly blame Cable for being overconfident in his ability to mold these misfits into a functional unit. How elusive was Russell last night? ANY other QB in the NFL (assuming they also hold it too long) takes 10 sacks. Hopefully we'll look back on an ugly win and an AZ loss as the turning point in the season....

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I was thinking of this first sentence today. I feel like we have a difference in what Cable wants vs the reality. Due to the contracts that others have gotten (and I agree with those contracts, those players are our best), we end up going younger and cheaper on the line. I would think that means we need to be drafting guys or signing un-drafted guys who are the most pro-ready. Instead we are going with these projects and putting up with the growing pains.

Tough because you don't want to overpay guys like Carpenter either.

They need to make teams pay for blitzing the corners and safeties. throw some fades up to graham even if he is double covered and teams will start playing more conservatively. Nobody wants to deal with graham deep down field. Teams are basically trying to make it known they will send pressure becuase they dont fear the pass. make them pay for

2Cool4School":205ua1ng said:

They need to make teams pay for blitzing the corners and safeties. throw some fades up to graham even if he is double covered and teams will start playing more conservatively. Nobody wants to deal with graham deep down field. Teams are basically trying to make it known they will send pressure becuase they dont fear the pass. make them pay for

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One thing I noticed on the replay of the sack /fumble / Td play. Lions blitzed and none of the receivers seemed to adjust their route to a hot.

HawkRiderFan":1ni2fz25 said:

2Cool4School":1ni2fz25 said:

They need to make teams pay for blitzing the corners and safeties. throw some fades up to graham even if he is double covered and teams will start playing more conservatively. Nobody wants to deal with graham deep down field. Teams are basically trying to make it known they will send pressure becuase they dont fear the pass. make them pay for

Click to expand...

One thing I noticed on the replay of the sack /fumble / Td play. Lions blitzed and none of the receivers seemed to adjust their route to a hot.

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I would take that a step further and say I just don't see any hot route adjustments ever.
There are ways to beat blitzes like the Hawks are seeing, but adjustments to take advantage of single coverage and mismatches don't seem part of the plan. Is there a plan? Is it to let RW do the backyard scramble forever? Sounds like a pretty risky plan.

OK, what I really believe- it's the Carroll/Belvell Rope-A-Dope- lulling the rest of the NFL to sleep than break out the real stuff when we really need it :twisted:

Pete says to drop the "work in progress" line. I agree.

"Work in progress" is no longer applicable when they stop progressing. They's looked better each of the last couple of weeks but this week's performance was regression. Extreme regression! After having given them the benefit of the doubt because they were at least showing that they were getting a little better each week, I think after watching the film Pete just decided the progression had stopped.

Time to get a new Center in there. Those snaps were absolutely putrid. And one of them directly caused a fumble. Not to mention ruining the flow of just about every play.

They get no help from the OC or the QB.

The O-line is not good, but neither are they 100% of the problem.

Truth.

He was running for his life ALL DAY LONG. The run blocking was absolutely pitiful. The snaps ruined the flow of many plays during the game. Not to mention causing the first fumble.
The O Line is MOST of what's wrong with that offense.

Mick063":yv7qfv89 said:

They get no help from the OC or the QB.

The O-line is not good, but neither are they 100% of the problem.

Truth.

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The QB was the only help our offense did get. Without him we'd have been shut out.

I totally agree with c_hawkbob, if Wilson isn't our QB we probably get shut out in this game.
Not sure what you saw Monday Night but I saw a quarterback who was a magician on that field making play after play while running for his life.
Now I'm not saying Wilson is perfect cause he's not, (no QB is) but he's a damn good QB and the best one we could possibly hope for with that sorry excuse for an offensive line that we have.

HawkRiderFan":2j1z74ca said:

I would think that means we need to be drafting guys or signing un-drafted guys who are the most pro-ready. Instead we are going with these projects and putting up with the growing pains.

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Would make sense. But when you look at early OL picks -- the rate of 'pro ready' players is extremely poor. It's a great way to throw away a first round pick for the production equivalent of a mid day 3 prospect.

It's like wanting teams to draft a 'stud pass rusher'. The effort is fraught with failure overall and often times supply doesn't meet demand.

There is no simple or reasonably safe formula for acquiring day one ready rookie talent. The surest way to acquire a good OL, is to bring in players in bulk and develop them and retain them. It may mean resigning Okung. We don't have a replacement for him on the roster.

Or have an offense that has a quick passing game. The Pats have been running rookie OL players out liberally over the years with little ill effects. Brady is simply better at getting the ball out fast.

Block longer or pass quicker. Or both. Seattle actually has the receivers to execute a quick passing game (Baldwin/Lockett/Richardson) if they ever chose to switch our offense out.

If anything, this past game is almost a perfect referendum for advocating this change. Detroit's OL is not appreciably better than ours. It stinks. Detroit's DL is definitely not as talented as Seattle's. And Stafford is a close approximation for Wilson at QB. Yet Detroit dominated the pass rush battle.

It is worth noting though, that Seattle did win the game and was in a position to comfortably win it until a freak TD recovery late. I don't think it was because we allow ourselves to get sacks though.

Our D-line is amazing.

Is our D-line dominating the O-line in practice to show how bad they are, or is our D-line not going full speed in practice?

I find it hard to believe the Offense could so anything in practice with this O-line against our D-line.

They should be able to identify the problems in practice but apparently they aren't.