Quick Passing

We need more quick passes in our offense if we are to make up for the terrible pass blocking.

Why are we trying to set up double moves for receivers downfield when there is no time to throw?

I said the same thing last night. Would it kill us to run a few quick slants, maybe a couple more draws and screens as well to help the crappy oline

But at the same time, If Im defending our offense, Im having my corners play tight man bump and run to take away just that.

It's ironic how much people hate bubble screens when there is a constant call for quick passes.

We try to now and then, but it's a legit issue with Russ. He has trouble stepping and throwing. I agree that it needs to improve, but part of the reason Russ scrambles so much is because he hesitates on quicker concepts .

Sarlacc83":39q1huzz said:

It's ironic how much people hate bubble screens when there is a constant call for quick passes.

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Quick passes don't always have to be bubble screens. Quick slants, screens anything to get the ball out quickly will do. Unfortunately, for Bevell a quick pass means a 40 yards throw instead of a 50+ yd throw since it take less time to develop.

Sarlacc83":2kv7c7hr said:

It's ironic how much people hate bubble screens when there is a constant call for quick passes.

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I don't necessarily mean bubble screens. There are other quick routes available. New England uses a number of them very effectively.

I just think the pass blocking is going to be poor all season. Instead of beating our head against the wall let's embrace it for this year and try to work around it.

ludakrishna":1hmmiaa9 said:

Sarlacc83":1hmmiaa9 said:

It's ironic how much people hate bubble screens when there is a constant call for quick passes.

Click to expand...

Quick passes don't always have to be bubble screens. Quick slants, screens anything to get the ball out quickly will do. Unfortunately, for Bevell a quick pass means a 40 yards throw instead of a 50+ yd throw since it take less time to develop.

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I thought fans never wanted to see these plays after the SB loss.

This seems like a feasible plan moving forward and this is what I was referring to in my original post. Makes even more sense with Lynch out.

From ESPN

"Watching Wilson, I've wondered how the Seahawks might look if they moved to even more of a quick, rhythm passing game. What if they just had Wilson operate from the shotgun, get rid of the ball quickly and pass even more? The offensive line would have an easier time pass-protecting, and Wilson has been accurate, completing 71.7 percent of his passes. If the run blocking doesn't improve, perhaps Seattle will move in this direction."

I concur that this is the way to go.

How quick? Start with half a second quicker than the pass rusher reaches Russell.

Aaron Rodgers releases were being timed at one third of a second from the snap the other day.

Jaws discussed Giants on ESPN. Said they clocked Eli at about 2 secs or less for every passing play when they faced the Bills

Think that would work pretty ok...

People keep wanting to pretend his height isn't a factor. Guy overcomes alot, but hes still 5'10 standing behind 6'5 and thick, with 6'4 rushing down on him. Stepping into the pocket means losing a ton of short route vision. Russell can do a ton of stuff in the pocket when he has time. But with no time, he cant just step into it and hope for the best. He loses a lot of vision that way.

Clearly his height is a factor. This is another reason for changing our offense to account for his shortness. I suggest throwing lob passes to the two tallest receivers (Graham and Matthews) on sideline routes.

Overthrown lobs go out of bounds at the sidelines, but could be intercepted elsewhere. Tall targets easier to see. Sideline targets pull defenders from the box, rendering them unnecessary to block.

Use this tactic at least until the line learns to block.

And maybe, for the sake of argument, we should consider that Lynch isn't the only reason our opponents bring 8 or 9 into the box, as it also makes it way more difficult to complete quick short passes. Hurts our run game, damn near removes the quick short pass game, and forces us to use longer developing plays, thus giving their pass rush time to get home.

Cartire":3d8wz0d9 said:

People keep wanting to pretend his height isn't a factor. Guy overcomes alot, but hes still 5'10 standing behind 6'5 and thick, with 6'4 rushing down on him. Stepping into the pocket means losing a ton of short route vision. Russell can do a ton of stuff in the pocket when he has time. But with no time, he cant just step into it and hope for the best. He loses a lot of vision that way.

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Rodgers is only 3 inches taller than Wilson. You telling me that Rodgers can see just perfectly fine over the linemen even though hes still shorter than they are by a few inches too.

WilsonMVP":a900j0qc said:

Cartire":a900j0qc said:

People keep wanting to pretend his height isn't a factor. Guy overcomes alot, but hes still 5'10 standing behind 6'5 and thick, with 6'4 rushing down on him. Stepping into the pocket means losing a ton of short route vision. Russell can do a ton of stuff in the pocket when he has time. But with no time, he cant just step into it and hope for the best. He loses a lot of vision that way.

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Rodgers is only 3 inches taller than Wilson. You telling me that Rodgers can see just perfectly fine over the linemen even though hes still shorter than they are by a few inches too.

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Yes.

Cartire":2o2pk4us said:

WilsonMVP":2o2pk4us said:

Cartire":2o2pk4us said:

People keep wanting to pretend his height isn't a factor. Guy overcomes alot, but hes still 5'10 standing behind 6'5 and thick, with 6'4 rushing down on him. Stepping into the pocket means losing a ton of short route vision. Russell can do a ton of stuff in the pocket when he has time. But with no time, he cant just step into it and hope for the best. He loses a lot of vision that way.

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Rodgers is only 3 inches taller than Wilson. You telling me that Rodgers can see just perfectly fine over the linemen even though hes still shorter than they are by a few inches too.

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Yes.

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Agreed. 3 inches make a big difference, especially when climbing the pocket. If your eyes are 1" lower then the top of a wall you still can see what's behind it...especially things that are closer to the wall (IE short routes).

Isn't the idea of having taller WRs in part so fhey can be more easily seen by QBs who can use their receivers length to place passes the opposing defensive players can't catch, i.e.vertical separation?

The team has a number of tall players at TE and WR, but don't seem to effectively scheme to make them available for RW to targeting short passing situations. I'm sure most of us here thought finally we'll get to see a jumbo passing package on short yardage or red zone situations that will be hard to defend. So far that hasn't happened with any effectiveness. Two TEs with Matthews and a big back like Jackson offer a huge number of short quick passing options that we aren't seeing.

HawKnPeppa":1kbf1uo2 said:

Cartire":1kbf1uo2 said:

WilsonMVP":1kbf1uo2 said:

Cartire":1kbf1uo2 said:

People keep wanting to pretend his height isn't a factor. Guy overcomes alot, but hes still 5'10 standing behind 6'5 and thick, with 6'4 rushing down on him. Stepping into the pocket means losing a ton of short route vision. Russell can do a ton of stuff in the pocket when he has time. But with no time, he cant just step into it and hope for the best. He loses a lot of vision that way.

Click to expand...

Rodgers is only 3 inches taller than Wilson. You telling me that Rodgers can see just perfectly fine over the linemen even though hes still shorter than they are by a few inches too.

Click to expand...

Yes.

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Agreed. 3 inches make a big difference, especially when climbing the pocket. If your eyes are 1" lower then the top of a wall you still can see what's behind it...especially things that are closer to the wall (IE short routes).

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Yes, this is a big reason why you do not see very many QB's of Wilson's stature in the NFL. I'm starting to believe that is why he back tracks in the pocket instead of steps up in the pocket as well. If you look at the way NO plays with Brees, the line opens up gaping passing lanes. They are trained to do so, the Seahawks do not do that. Our line just looks like a giant wall of mass most of the time. Another way Wilson's stature could be schemed around is a moving pocket, similar to what Shannahan ran in Denver. Cutler, Elway, and even RG3 in Washington ran a lot of rollouts like that.

Another thing that needs to be mentioned is the trust factor. Unless receivers are wide open, Wilson will usually not risk throwing to them. This is a big deal, because in order for a short passing game to work methodically, you need to be able to pass to a spot and trust that your man is going to be there. The ball has to be out right as the WR makes his break, especially on a slant route over the middle or else you end up with bad INTs.

A good example of this is Wilson's superbowl INT play. I was comparing the way Hasselbeck ran that play this week, and the way Wilson ran it. There was a big difference in the way the two QB's approached this play. The first difference was ball placement. Hasselbeck didn't lead his receiver very much, and he hit him in the stomach. Wilson's was more shoulder level, and he led his receiver far more. This would be the ideal way to run that play if you were trying to march down the field. Hasselbeck's ball would've been much harder for Butler to INT, it would've probably been a incompletion at the worst.

The second difference was that Hasselbeck had the ball out of his hand much quicker than Wilson did. It was one step, two step, throw. Wilson waited slightly longer to throw the ball. That delay could' have been the difference between an INT and an incompletion. The receiver got the ball in his hands much sooner than Ricardo Lockette during the superbowl.

Now... let me clarify this by saying, I by no means think the current Hasselbeck is better than Wilson. The quick passing game is just Hasselbecks forte, Holmgren demanded that Hasselbeck be able to move the ball up the field methodically, mostly using passes that were five to ten yards past the LOS.

jammerhawk":3qkos95h said:

Isn't the idea of having taller WRs in part so fhey can be more easily seen by QBs who can use their receivers length to place passes the opposing defensive players can't catch, i.e.vertical separation?

The team has a number of tall players at TE and WR, but don't seem to effectively scheme to make them available for RW to targeting short passing situations. I'm sure most of us here thought finally we'll get to see a jumbo passing package on short yardage or red zone situations that will be hard to defend. So far that hasn't happened with any effectiveness. Two TEs with Matthews and a big back like Jackson offer a huge number of short quick passing options that we aren't seeing.

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Wilson and Pete are afraid to death of turnovers. Taller WR's from what I've seen usually do not get as much separation as the smaller guys. Generally their breaks on their routes, and their cuts are not as fast because there is more mass to move and a higher center of gravity as opposed to a small guy like Lockett. Now that being said... these receivers can CREATE separation just by virtue of their size. They can usually box out DB's with their body, and high point the ball in ways that most cb's can't contest. They also have a wider catch radius, and have more length to extend out for the ball.

This means that a bigger WR may not necessarily look open, though in reality that receiver could probably make a play on the ball unless the CB has phenomenal positioning, or the big WR's ball skills suck.

Quick passes are what other teams use vs. US. This offense is tailored to take advantage of RW's abilities, but a little tweaking (or maybe twerking) may allow us to actually have a productive offense.