Fieldgulls: Bad O-Lines a league-wide problem

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2015/10/6/943 ... ky-players

I realize most people don't have the patience to hear this right now.

But this is an interesting take - basically, a lot of teams are struggling to find good offensive linemen right now because of the last decade of college football trends.

The OL's picked in the first round of the past three drafts, how are they doing these days? Most of them are hurt, average, or busts.

Also, you have to consider defenders are far more athletic today than they were back then.

Bengals are one of the few teams that have been good at drafting OL. Almost all of their starters & backups were drafted by them besides Eric Winston. It is a league-wide issue but I wonder what other teams are still getting the job done?

LT Andrew Whitworth
LG Clint Boling
Backup LG & LT Jake Fisher
C Russell Bodine
Backup C T.J. Johnson
RG Kevin Zeitler
RT Andre Smith
Backup RG & RT Eric Winston

Their depth is better than our starters.

When you're in a league of crappy o-lines and your team is at the bottom of the list of crappy o-lines, it is concerning. Maybe the Cable experiment will pan out next year, but there is a season to win this year. I fear for Russell.

I think the biggest challenge to building Olines is free agency.By the time you develop players and build a solid unit you have to start replacing players.

justafan":16ncmd4f said:

I think the biggest challenge to building Olines is free agency.By the time you develop players and build a solid unit you have to start replacing players.

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This

BlackandGolden":16ncmd4f said:

Also, you have to consider defenders are far more athletic today than they were back then.

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and this.

justafan":2bk9ktfc said:

I think the biggest challenge to building Olines is free agency.By the time you develop players and build a solid unit you have to start replacing players.

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Which is why if you're going the development route you must then pay to keep them on your team. Otherwise you're in constant development mode with no consistency on your O-Line. If that means other areas of the team suffer some because of salary cap so be it. But our route is going to get RW killed and seriously hurt his long term career and health.

Or you could just look at our line for a clear example.

Thought provoking article. :th2thumbs:

And to tag along a bit, there is also today's mismatches between offensive linemen playing every snap verses rotating defensive linemen featuring specialist mismatches.

justafan":2brmpokd said:

I think the biggest challenge to building Olines is free agency.By the time you develop players and build a solid unit you have to start replacing players.

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To a degree, yes. Nobody wants to lock up average talent using the same tools via extentions and 4 to 5 year contract but...

It's obvious that a lack of continuity hurts a lot.

The Panthers went from the worst OL in football to mediocre/respectable for two reasons. 1) the investment of a 3rd round pick in Trai Turner from LSU that worked and 2) scouting/lucking into Andrew Norwell from Ohio State as an UDFA. If not for injury, could add the drafting of Daryl Williams from Oklahoma. The key is that all are from the biggest of big time college football programs and are far more football player that SPARQ warrior, allowing them to slip through the cracks.

MontanaHawk05":1shdjz4k said:

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2015/10/6/9434347/seahawks-offensive-line-nfl-sacks-sucky-players

I realize most people don't have the patience to hear this right now.

But this is an interesting take - basically, a lot of teams are struggling to find good offensive linemen right now because of the last decade of college football trends.

Click to expand...

Hard not to be skeptical, what with all the supposedly great Quarterbacks that are coming out of the woodwork, and the Passing frenzy that is being advertised.
And too, there are some Pass Happy teams that are still managing to find some DECENT players coming out of the Colleges.
I understand Cable's concept of Drafting and training up the Athletic defense players with nasty streaks, to match up against the Defensive freaks they will have to play against, but in almost every case, it takes a lot of time to develop those conversions ,and there is bound to be one or two that won't be able to make that transition.
If Colleges aren't spitting out good Offensive Linemen, how are they having so much success with producing all these prolific Quarterbacks?

Dallas seems to have the right formula

SauceTownHawk":idldmhxj said:

Dallas seems to have the right formula

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Have they won any NFC championships with it?

MontanaHawk05":drqvatp3 said:

SauceTownHawk":drqvatp3 said:

Dallas seems to have the right formula

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Have they won any NFC championships with it?

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Be extremely honest with yourself here. If Seattles D is on the Cowboys, Dallas wins the bowl.

We've won in spite of our line. Dallas does have a great O-line.

Cartire":d29tvlg6 said:

MontanaHawk05":d29tvlg6 said:

SauceTownHawk":d29tvlg6 said:

Dallas seems to have the right formula

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Have they won any NFC championships with it?

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Be extremely honest with yourself here. If Seattles D is on the Cowboys, Dallas wins the bowl.

We've won in spite of our line. Dallas does have a great O-line.

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if Seattles D was in Dallas... they'd be winning Bowls for years on end probably

SeahawksFanForever":1ef7kt54 said:

Bengals are one of the few teams that have been good at drafting OL. Almost all of their starters & backups were drafted by them besides Eric Winston. It is a league-wide issue but I wonder what other teams are still getting the job done?

LT Andrew Whitworth
LG Clint Boling
Backup LG & LT Jake Fisher
C Russell Bodine
Backup C T.J. Johnson
RG Kevin Zeitler
RT Andre Smith
Backup RG & RT Eric Winston

Their depth is better than our starters.

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and we cut Winston last year...I never understood that one. Seattle has actually developed and acquired quite a few decent linemen (note I said DECENT, not good), but they are allowed to leave in free agency or surprisingly cut. We would still have Carpenter if we had just exercised his 6th year option. Breno Giacomini did not leave for much. Even if we had just retained some of the guys we let go over the years, our O-line would be pretty good. But that money was funneled into other areas and I the FO wishes they had a few of those decisions back.

justafan":w2sw0fb7 said:

I think the biggest challenge to building Olines is free agency.By the time you develop players and build a solid unit you have to start replacing players.

Click to expand...

That is only a problem if you draft players that need 4 years to develop. That is a problem with scouting and talent evaluation.

With Cable deciding to put anyone BUT an offensive lineman on the OL, I think we can pretty much expect our OL to suck forever.

We will never have a good OL if we only draft busts and try to convert DL to OL.

Sometimes its best to just follow conventional wisdom. Being different about EVERYTHING means we will fail where others succeed.

Cable and Pete need to be held accountable. If this is a constant issue, regardless of the year then they need to do something different to improve their performance and allow them to succeed earlier in the season. If the ZBS scheme takes too much time to learn then maybe it isn't suitable for our constantly shifting line personnel. You have to have the right people to perform the scheme, maybe we have too much of a complicated scheme for the personnel.

Saying the Seahawk OL is bad is a severe understatement. At this point, being bad would be an improvement in their case.

I don't think we are asking for Dallas OLine and our defense, but honestly the question is whether the OLine of

Okung, Jean Pierre/Bailey, Jean Pierre/Patrick Lewis/Samson Satele, Sweezy, Britt/Gilliam is better than what is currently in place.....

2 of these pieces are already familiar with what we run in Jean Pierre and Lewis and would likely fix the interior calls and line play, while placing Britt back at RT to challenge Gilliam, who actually hasn't played that bad (in comparison to what we've witnessed).

On the pace to give up 72 sacks is not a formula for success by any stretch so I'd give it through the bye week for this line and if the team is 4-4 and not beating teams like Cinci and Carolina because we cant execute basic running plays with a lead, then the whole formula of run the ball and play great defense goes out the window against the better teams that can actually score.

I am not sure whether I'm more comfortable with Seattle trailing in the 3rd and 4th vs leading, we have not played well with leads and inability to close out games on the ground. The OL needs to be fixed strictly for the reasons of completely changing the formula. If we started out faster and scored more points with Graham, you can technically experiment with him strictly as a WR and still effectively run the ball with Wilson as the other TE.

Right now there are pieces that don't fit, but not going to panic at all. There is still a roster full of upside on the bench like Glowinski and others that can be given a chance.